Does anyone not mind the government gathering their phone information?

[hortysir]

Who's the dumbass that said yes???

eflatminor

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Verizon had better be leery, I smell a lawsuit. I've actually considered drafting up one myself, and switching phone carriers. They are going to lose customers over this.

What makes you think the government is not doing this with every cell phone company?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know what they do. They have computer banks search for key words and if they come up with one they put you on a watch list for further investigation. The context doesn't matter because the freaking administration doesn't care about the 1st, 2nd, or 5th Amendments because the fat ass bureaucracy we used to call the "intelligence community" is to lazy to do their freaking jobs.

Bomb

Ricin

Aircraft

Towers

Cell Phone Detonator





wonder if I'll be singled out???

I wonder if people have enough brains to realize they should be forced to single people out instead of just getting information on everyone by default.

 

[Avatar4321]

Verizon had better be leery, I smell a lawsuit. I've actually considered drafting up one myself, and switching phone carriers. They are going to lose customers over this.

I doubt this is limited to Verizon. My bet is that all the carriers are doing this.

There is a high probability that that is a safe conclusion.

 

[Avatar4321]

Who's the dumbass that said yes???

My guess is i confused him in the way i set up the question and the thread.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

if they can make a case that it is assisting them in the war on terror (a war they now say is pretty over btw) I don't have an issue with it.

I didn't have an issue with bushs Pat act fisa machinations on this front, but it appears to me they are now doing this backwards, Bush started with individuals they thought suspicious and then would start the process and get warrants, now we are monitoring data on a swath of folks as a huge fishing expedition then I guess they would identify suspicious individuals and drill down into asking tapping and getting ti signed off etc....and- they never told us....

Obama had a LOT to say as a senator about Bush/NSA etc. and how he, Bush went about it, etc....so what gives?

Nope. You are wrong.

This is identical to what Bush did. Identical.

It's been going on for seven years.

Jesus, how many topics about this do we need? We are past a dozen today alone, I think.

As many threads as needed to perpetuate the lie that this is somehow ‘Obama’s fault.’

And the OP asks the wrong question.

The questions he should be asking instead:

How does one know his phone information has indeed been accessed by the government?

Am I aware of the fact that the policy authorizing the information gathering is perfectly legal?

Am I aware of the fact that the information gathering is authorized by the courts?

The issue isn’t whether one has anything to hide or not, but what one can prove in court.

 

[asaratis]

Verizon had better be leery, I smell a lawsuit. I've actually considered drafting up one myself, and switching phone carriers. They are going to lose customers over this.

I doubt this is limited to Verizon. My bet is that all the carriers are doing this.

Who's the dumbass that said yes???

eflatminor

just click on the vote number...you get a list of voters.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Who's the dumbass that said yes???

It was likely Senator Lindsey Graham (R) SC.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Verizon had better be leery, I smell a lawsuit. I've actually considered drafting up one myself, and switching phone carriers. They are going to lose customers over this.

What makes you think the government is not doing this with every cell phone company?

Nothing, in fact I know they are doing it with all of them. I rule nothing out. This happens to hit closer to home for me, and as it stands is a more public revelation. I'm sure the rest will come out of the woodwork soon.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Who's the dumbass that said yes???

It was likely Senator Lindsey Graham (R) SC.

He needs to get with the program.

 

[Trajan]

if they can make a case that it is assisting them in the war on terror (a war they now say is pretty over btw) I don't have an issue with it.

I didn't have an issue with bushs Pat act fisa machinations on this front, but it appears to me they are now doing this backwards, Bush started with individuals they thought suspicious and then would start the process and get warrants, now we are monitoring data on a swath of folks as a huge fishing expedition then I guess they would identify suspicious individuals and drill down into asking tapping and getting ti signed off etc....and- they never told us....

Obama had a LOT to say as a senator about Bush/NSA etc. and how he, Bush went about it, etc....so what gives?

Nope. You are wrong.

This is identical to what Bush did. Identical.

It's been going on for seven years.

Jesus, how many topics about this do we need? We are past a dozen today alone, I think.

As many threads as needed to perpetuate the lie that this is somehow ‘Obama’s fault.’

And the OP asks the wrong question.

The questions he should be asking instead:

How does one know his phone information has indeed been accessed by the government?

Am I aware of the fact that the policy authorizing the information gathering is perfectly legal?

Am I aware of the fact that the information gathering is authorized by the courts?

The issue isn’t whether one has anything to hide or not, but what one can prove in court.

I don't know where you got that fault crap, maybe its becasue you suffer comprehension issues


....he IS rresponsible though, he could have told Holder to forgo the pat act provisions for such, and the NSA to not do what they are doing, using this mechanism etc. , but, he didn't now did he?

 

[Sarah G]

I've got nothing to hide, but I sure as heck don't want the government gathering information on me. Who I talk to and associate with is my business.

But is there anyone who thinks the government should be monitoring your phone records?

I doubt anyone wants the government monitoring anything but the way the Republicans are creating scandals, saturating their own news sources with their version of the facts is actually creating the opposite effect for them. Nobody believes all the bullshit anymore.

Americans want facts not some version of the facts. Let the real story come out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As many threads as needed to perpetuate the lie that this is somehow ‘Obama’s fault.’

Strange, I don't recall the OP blaming Obama.

That said, this is definitely Obama's fault. He actually campaigned with the promise to end this type of thing, and it is still going on. It takes a real hack to argue that the fact that it started under one president absolves the current president of responsibility.

And the OP asks the wrong question.

The questions he should be asking instead:

How does one know his phone information has indeed been accessed by the government?

That is the justification Obama is using to continue the unconstitutional and illegal search. The fact that no one can prove their information has been accessed unless the government admits it, coupled with their refusal to admit it, means the courts cannot review the process.

Am I aware of the fact that the policy authorizing the information gathering is perfectly legal?

Is the fake lawyer aware that no court has actually said it is legal?

Am I aware of the fact that the information gathering is authorized by the courts?

Are you aware that the court is actually a secret court, and that it's rulings are not subject to review?

The issue isn’t whether one has anything to hide or not, but what one can prove in court.

Given the fact that there is no proof that all Verizon customers information has been collected, and that the ACLU will be happy to use that as a wedge, what do you think the end result will be?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I've got nothing to hide, but I sure as heck don't want the government gathering information on me. Who I talk to and associate with is my business.

But is there anyone who thinks the government should be monitoring your phone records?

I doubt anyone wants the government monitoring anything but the way the Republicans are creating scandals, saturating their own news sources with their version of the facts is actually creating the opposite effect for them. Nobody believes all the bullshit anymore.

Americans want facts not some version of the facts. Let the real story come out.

The real story did come out. You are in denial. Shhhhh, it will all be over soon.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've got nothing to hide, but I sure as heck don't want the government gathering information on me. Who I talk to and associate with is my business.

But is there anyone who thinks the government should be monitoring your phone records?

I doubt anyone wants the government monitoring anything but the way the Republicans are creating scandals, saturating their own news sources with their version of the facts is actually creating the opposite effect for them. Nobody believes all the bullshit anymore.

Americans want facts not some version of the facts. Let the real story come out.

This is so stupid it deserves its own thread in the wackadoodle forum.

 

[TemplarKormac]

As many threads as needed to perpetuate the lie that this is somehow ‘Obama’s fault.’

Strange, I don't recall the OP blaming Obama.

That said, this is definitely Obama's fault. He actually campaigned with the promise to end this type of thing, and it is still going on. It takes a real hack to argue that the fact that it started under one president absolves the current president of responsibility.

And the OP asks the wrong question.

The questions he should be asking instead:

How does one know his phone information has indeed been accessed by the government?

That is the justification Obama is using to continue the unconstitutional and illegal search. The fact that no one can prove their information has been accessed unless the government admits it, coupled with their refusal to admit it, means the courts cannot review the process.

Is the fake lawyer aware that no court has actually said it is legal?

Am I aware of the fact that the information gathering is authorized by the courts?

Are you aware that the court is actually a secret court, and that it's rulings are not subject to review?

The issue isn’t whether one has anything to hide or not, but what one can prove in court.

Given the fact that there is no proof that all Verizon customers information has been collected, and that the ACLU will be happy to use that as a wedge, what do you think the end result will be?

Oddly enough, Obama had all the power to stop this. But like the hopey changey guy he was in 2008, he remained convinced people needed more health insurance than privacy rights.

 

[Avatar4321]

I've got nothing to hide, but I sure as heck don't want the government gathering information on me. Who I talk to and associate with is my business.

But is there anyone who thinks the government should be monitoring your phone records?

I doubt anyone wants the government monitoring anything but the way the Republicans are creating scandals, saturating their own news sources with their version of the facts is actually creating the opposite effect for them. Nobody believes all the bullshit anymore.

Americans want facts not some version of the facts. Let the real story come out.

When did Al Gore become a Republican? What about the other lefties that are upset over this? When did they join the vast right wing conspiracy?

 

[Avatar4321]

Strange, I don't recall the OP blaming Obama.

Probably because I didn't.

That being said, Obama is responsible for what happens under his administration, regardless what other Presidents have done.

 

[Borillar]

if they can make a case that it is assisting them in the war on terror (a war they now say is pretty over btw) I don't have an issue with it.

I didn't have an issue with bushs Pat act fisa machinations on this front, but it appears to me they are now doing this backwards, Bush started with individuals they thought suspicious and then would start the process and get warrants, now we are monitoring data on a swath of folks as a huge fishing expedition then I guess they would identify suspicious individuals and drill down into asking tapping and getting ti signed off etc....and- they never told us....

Obama had a LOT to say as a senator about Bush/NSA etc. and how he, Bush went about it, etc....so what gives?

Nope. You are wrong.

This is identical to what Bush did. Identical.

It's been going on for seven years.

Jesus, how many topics about this do we need? We are past a dozen today alone, I think.

yes I am aware its been going on since 06. But I think there is a slight difference in approach as I said, foreign contacts first then collection. Note- I don't care really....

and I did find this refreshing....


The administration has now lost all credibility. Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it. That is one reason we have long argued that the Patriot Act, enacted in the heat of fear after the 9/11 attacks by members of Congress who mostly had not even read it, was reckless in its assignment of unnecessary and overbroad surveillance powers.

Based on an article in The Guardian published Wednesday night, we now know the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency used the Patriot Act to obtain a secret warrant to compel Verizon’s business services division to turn over data on every single call that went through its system. We know that this particular order was a routine extension of surveillance that has been going on for years, and it seems very likely that it extends beyond Verizon’s business division. There is every reason to believe the federal government has been collecting every bit of information about every American’s phone calls except the words actually exchanged in those calls.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the actual conversations are being monitored and collected rather than just "metadata."

 

[bendog]

It actually bothers me more that insurance companies can track every purchase I make online and possibly with a credit card. 8 years ago, or whenever I first learned the govt was tracking calls going to and from suspected overseas sites, and reading email from abroad, I was concerned their would be non terror prosecutions stemming from it, like kid porn or gambling. Not that I'm for kid porn, but I don't think the NSA is really in that biz, and this is only properly about terrorism. And, I figured the govt would promptly overstep and reach and touch other kinds of crimes, but I've been surprised i was wrong.

The Supreme Court Katz decision is sort of outdated because it focused on saying the govt needed a warrant to get info about which you had a reasonable expectation of privacy. That seems unworkable now, and I think we need to focus on limiting what info can be used for.

For example, one of the posters hypothesized what if he was construction guy who called an explosives mftr. Does that put him on a list? Possibly. But most likely the govt isn't gonna look for you unless you also contact a terrorist number or start showing up on gps near a nuclear reactor or something.