Does God want us to judge him?

[ding]

So you believe because God didn't create a utopia that God is a douchebag?

What makes you think that the gods created anything?

There is only one creator, Hollie.

Physical laws, biological laws and moral laws; our experiences as creators; logic and reason.

What makes you believe you should judge him?

We often have several people creating a car, for example. Who's to say that god didn't have help?

I don't think we can properly understand the nature of a multi-dimensional being living outside of space and time which has the ability to create space and time.

I believe the best we can do is to accept that whatever God is well above our understanding and that our questioning his actions would be like an ant questioning ours.

It makes absolutely no logical sense to judge the creator of space and time because we think we would have done a better job.

Anyways, it's all make believe, so everything makes sense.

Only because you refuse to accept the possibility that space and time were created by spirit. Until you consider that possibility, you will never look for anything else that doesn't confirm your bias.

But putting that aside, you just admitted to being an atheist and not an agnostic. Gotcha.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, your gods are relative newcomers in the long list of gods that were invented and later abandoned as newer gods came along.

Your new fangled designer gods should give credit to the real gods.

I understand that is your position but what makes you believe you should judge G-d?

Your gods need a rational person to judge them.

I really prefer the Greek gods as better behaved vs. your new fangled designer gods.

You believe you are rational?

Especially so in comparison to those who press irrational assertions such as supernatural spirit realms.

There is nothing irrational about multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time. What is irrational is you reducing multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time to fairy tales.

And you believing you aren't judging him. That's irrational.

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

 

[ding]

I understand that is your position but what makes you believe you should judge G-d?

Your gods need a rational person to judge them.

I really prefer the Greek gods as better behaved vs. your new fangled designer gods.

You believe you are rational?

Especially so in comparison to those who press irrational assertions such as supernatural spirit realms.

There is nothing irrational about multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time. What is irrational is you reducing multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time to fairy tales.

And you believing you aren't judging him. That's irrational.

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

 

[Hollie]

Your gods need a rational person to judge them.

I really prefer the Greek gods as better behaved vs. your new fangled designer gods.

You believe you are rational?

Especially so in comparison to those who press irrational assertions such as supernatural spirit realms.

There is nothing irrational about multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time. What is irrational is you reducing multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time to fairy tales.

And you believing you aren't judging him. That's irrational.

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

 

[ding]

You believe you are rational?

Especially so in comparison to those who press irrational assertions such as supernatural spirit realms.

There is nothing irrational about multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time. What is irrational is you reducing multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time to fairy tales.

And you believing you aren't judging him. That's irrational.

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

No. I already told you. I have been searching for truth for 23 years. I'm not making anything up. This is the culmination of 23 years of research and effort.

You on the other hand act like a propagandist. You offer no evidence, you offer no explanations, you offer no reasoning or logic.

If the fate of Israel rests upon your abilities, they will be speaking palestinian soon.

 

[Taz]

If I was god I would have made a utopia. I'd make a better god for shizzle!

And yes, creating deformed babies is some massive douchebaggery.

Thank you for an honest answer.

Now where did you get this expectation from that the world should be a utopia?

A loving god wouldn't make some babies deformed on purpose, I'm just trying to figure out wtf is going on?

So you believe God is magically controlling all outcomes?

If He has no control over anything, then there would be no reason to fear and obey Him.

You don't have to obey him. You literally have free will not to obey him. But just don't expect that you will receive no feedback from the universe for doing so.

He may not choose to control every aspect of existence but he has certainly stacked the deck against us.

God has no control over what happens in the universe, according to you. And why would a god stack the deck against us? That makes no sense, as usual.

 

[Taz]

What makes you think that the gods created anything?

There is only one creator, Hollie.

Physical laws, biological laws and moral laws; our experiences as creators; logic and reason.

What makes you believe you should judge him?

We often have several people creating a car, for example. Who's to say that god didn't have help?

I don't think we can properly understand the nature of a multi-dimensional being living outside of space and time which has the ability to create space and time.

I believe the best we can do is to accept that whatever God is well above our understanding and that our questioning his actions would be like an ant questioning ours.

It makes absolutely no logical sense to judge the creator of space and time because we think we would have done a better job.

Anyways, it's all make believe, so everything makes sense.

Only because you refuse to accept the possibility that space and time were created by spirit. Until you consider that possibility, you will never look for anything else that doesn't confirm your bias.

But putting that aside, you just admitted to being an atheist and not an agnostic. Gotcha.

It's a possibility, just no proof. Like I always say.

 

[ding]

Thank you for an honest answer.

Now where did you get this expectation from that the world should be a utopia?

A loving god wouldn't make some babies deformed on purpose, I'm just trying to figure out wtf is going on?

So you believe God is magically controlling all outcomes?

If He has no control over anything, then there would be no reason to fear and obey Him.

You don't have to obey him. You literally have free will not to obey him. But just don't expect that you will receive no feedback from the universe for doing so.

He may not choose to control every aspect of existence but he has certainly stacked the deck against us.

God has no control over what happens in the universe, according to you. And why would a god stack the deck against us? That makes no sense, as usual.

You mean besides the physical laws, biological laws and moral laws?

Together those laws serve as outside forces which create a law of compensation that mold and evolve creation. You included.

But since you don't believe any of this you can't believe that you are being molded by outside forces, right?

The deck is stacked against us to progress us, taz. Everyone of us are being pruned so that new growth will occur.

 

[ding]

There is only one creator, Hollie.

Physical laws, biological laws and moral laws; our experiences as creators; logic and reason.

What makes you believe you should judge him?

We often have several people creating a car, for example. Who's to say that god didn't have help?

I don't think we can properly understand the nature of a multi-dimensional being living outside of space and time which has the ability to create space and time.

I believe the best we can do is to accept that whatever God is well above our understanding and that our questioning his actions would be like an ant questioning ours.

It makes absolutely no logical sense to judge the creator of space and time because we think we would have done a better job.

Anyways, it's all make believe, so everything makes sense.

Only because you refuse to accept the possibility that space and time were created by spirit. Until you consider that possibility, you will never look for anything else that doesn't confirm your bias.

But putting that aside, you just admitted to being an atheist and not an agnostic. Gotcha.

It's a possibility, just no proof. Like I always say.

That's not what you said earlier. You said it is all make believe.

 

[Hollie]

Especially so in comparison to those who press irrational assertions such as supernatural spirit realms.

There is nothing irrational about multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time. What is irrational is you reducing multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time to fairy tales.

And you believing you aren't judging him. That's irrational.

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

No. I already told you. I have been searching for truth for 23 years. I'm not making anything up. This is the culmination of 23 years of research and effort.

You on the other hand act like a propagandist. You offer no evidence, you offer no explanations, you offer no reasoning or logic.

If the fate of Israel rests upon your abilities, they will be speaking palestinian soon.

I have an entire body of peer reviewed science to enlist. The scientific record is evidence for the natural world.

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.


For millennia, “theologians” have constructed elaborate and ultimately futile models of reality and truth, with next to no positive impact on the human condition. Science in dramatic contrast is among the youngest of human of human endeavors, and yet has achieved things no previous discipline has approached. It has fed the hungry, cured disease, created technology that four generations ago would have been unimaginable. It has literally changed our world, while religions like Christianity and Islam have done little more than churn human misfortune in a static embrace of past error. Unlike all the philosophies and religions that came before it, science actually works.

 

[ding]

There is nothing irrational about multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time. What is irrational is you reducing multi-dimensional beings outside of space and time capable of creating space and time to fairy tales.

And you believing you aren't judging him. That's irrational.

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

No. I already told you. I have been searching for truth for 23 years. I'm not making anything up. This is the culmination of 23 years of research and effort.

You on the other hand act like a propagandist. You offer no evidence, you offer no explanations, you offer no reasoning or logic.

If the fate of Israel rests upon your abilities, they will be speaking palestinian soon.

I have an entire body of peer reviewed science to enlist. The scientific record is evidence for the natural world.

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.


For millennia, “theologians” have constructed elaborate and ultimately futile models of reality and truth, with next to no positive impact on the human condition. Science in dramatic contrast is among the youngest of human of human endeavors, and yet has achieved things no previous discipline has approached. It has fed the hungry, cured disease, created technology that four generations ago would have been unimaginable. It has literally changed our world, while religions like Christianity and Islam have done little more than churn human misfortune in a static embrace of past error. Unlike all the philosophies and religions that came before it, science actually works.

Science is the study of nature to discover the order within nature so as to make predictions about the order of nature. Which means that science can study everything after the creation of space and time. The only inference that science can provide about what happened before the beginning of space and time is that the creation of space and time followed rules and laws. So I have the exact same list of peer reviewed scientists as you do. And I am willing to bet that over the last 23 years I am the only one of the two of us that has studied their work.

You will dismiss science that does not suit your purpose.

 

[ding]

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Hollie]

It certainly is irrational to create supernatural entities and then place those supernatural entities as dwelling in supernatural realms.

As usual, you offer the same canards in connection with defining your gods and magical spirit realms that spill out of every fundamentalist creation ministry. You personalize your gods, you slather them with human attributes, you make them emotive and you simply mold them into a paternal image.

You call your gods "him".

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

No. I already told you. I have been searching for truth for 23 years. I'm not making anything up. This is the culmination of 23 years of research and effort.

You on the other hand act like a propagandist. You offer no evidence, you offer no explanations, you offer no reasoning or logic.

If the fate of Israel rests upon your abilities, they will be speaking palestinian soon.

I have an entire body of peer reviewed science to enlist. The scientific record is evidence for the natural world.

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.


For millennia, “theologians” have constructed elaborate and ultimately futile models of reality and truth, with next to no positive impact on the human condition. Science in dramatic contrast is among the youngest of human of human endeavors, and yet has achieved things no previous discipline has approached. It has fed the hungry, cured disease, created technology that four generations ago would have been unimaginable. It has literally changed our world, while religions like Christianity and Islam have done little more than churn human misfortune in a static embrace of past error. Unlike all the philosophies and religions that came before it, science actually works.

Science is the study of nature to discover the order within nature so as to make predictions about the order of nature. Which means that science can study everything after the creation of space and time. The only inference that science can provide about what happened before the beginning of space and time is that the creation of space and time followed rules and laws. So I have the exact same list of peer reviewed scientists as you do. And I am willing to bet that over the last 23 years I am the only one of the two of us that has studied their work.

You will dismiss science that does not suit your purpose.

That’s rather silly as your appeals to spirit realms and supernaturalism are not discoverable by science.

It is science that has given us a first, but incomplete understanding of the cosmos. As with so much of your supernaturally based worldview that is corrupted by fear and superstition, you cant even define what you mean with slogans such as "spirits". You really need to look past Harun Yahya for your science data.

 

[Hollie]

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

It’s always funny to watch you retreat to your cut and paste spam when you’re utterly befuddled.

 

[ding]

I didn't create anything. There are only two boundary conditions; either the material world was created by spirit which is the position of your people or there is nothing but the material world.

You don't want to start from this position because it forces you to have a serious discussion.

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

No. I already told you. I have been searching for truth for 23 years. I'm not making anything up. This is the culmination of 23 years of research and effort.

You on the other hand act like a propagandist. You offer no evidence, you offer no explanations, you offer no reasoning or logic.

If the fate of Israel rests upon your abilities, they will be speaking palestinian soon.

I have an entire body of peer reviewed science to enlist. The scientific record is evidence for the natural world.

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.


For millennia, “theologians” have constructed elaborate and ultimately futile models of reality and truth, with next to no positive impact on the human condition. Science in dramatic contrast is among the youngest of human of human endeavors, and yet has achieved things no previous discipline has approached. It has fed the hungry, cured disease, created technology that four generations ago would have been unimaginable. It has literally changed our world, while religions like Christianity and Islam have done little more than churn human misfortune in a static embrace of past error. Unlike all the philosophies and religions that came before it, science actually works.

Science is the study of nature to discover the order within nature so as to make predictions about the order of nature. Which means that science can study everything after the creation of space and time. The only inference that science can provide about what happened before the beginning of space and time is that the creation of space and time followed rules and laws. So I have the exact same list of peer reviewed scientists as you do. And I am willing to bet that over the last 23 years I am the only one of the two of us that has studied their work.

You will dismiss science that does not suit your purpose.

That’s rather silly as your appeals to spirit realms and supernaturalism are not discoverable by science.

It is science that has given us a first, but incomplete understanding of the cosmos. As with so much of your supernaturally based worldview that is corrupted by fear and superstition, you cant even define what you mean with slogans such as "spirits". You really need to look past Harun Yahya for your science data.

No. That's the limits of science. The question of what created the material world resides in philosophy. You are the one who speaks of spirit realms and supernaturalism. I just leave it at the question did spirit create the material world. I limit it to consciousness without a body. To us it is supernatural because all we know is the natural. You like to use weasel words to convey a fairy tale. Whereas I understand the significance of an account that was so important that ancient man created allegorical accounts so they could pass that knowledge down to the next generation. And each and every generation believed it was important enough to keep passing it down orally for thousands of years. I think you are the palestinian.

 

[ding]

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

It’s always funny to watch you retreat to your cut and paste spam when you’re utterly befuddled.

I thought it was important that you know that I know what you are, Hollie. You've met every condition I mentioned in it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.

Right. 200 years ago, ding would have been the guy on the corner insisting black people are subhumans and diseases were caused by demons. Now his magical nonsense has been relegated to talking about what happened before the beginning of the universe.

That, my friends, is called progress.

 

[ding]

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.

Right. 200 years ago, ding would have been the guy on the corner insisting black people are subhumans and diseases were caused by demons. Now his magical nonsense has been relegated to talking about what happened before the beginning of the universe.

That, my friends, is called progress.

You know this how?

Take some good advice. Not everyone is all good or all bad. Stop treating them like they are.

 

[Meriweather]

That’s rather silly as your appeals to spirit realms and supernaturalism are not discoverable by science.

God is Spirit, hence the references to spirit and a spiritual realm. Keep in mind many scientific advances are relatively recent, and that their launching point was provided by religion. Religion has made as many advances as science.

For example, many people of faith search for natural causes of world catastrophes once attributed to God. This not only helps us to better understand the physical world, but it gives us an increased understanding of God and the spiritual.

What if people of faith came in here and began talking to people with a good background in science as if these people still touted what was taught by early science--that the earth is flat, that gold may be fashioned from led, that the earth was the center of the solar system, and also sorts of other misinformation that has been dealt with hundreds, if not thousands, of years past? Further, what if we assumed that your level of scientific knowledge only rose to the level of a third grade science book?

One of the hard facts about a religion forum is that many come in with their own made up interpretations, translations, and conclusions about what they read in the Bible--and often these conclusions were formulated around age twelve. There is so much more to religion and Biblical lore and understanding than that. If some approached science as they do religion they would properly laughed at and scorned. People who conclude that religion deserves scorn are no wiser than people who conclude science deserves scorn. Both conclusions have no basis other than complete ignorance.

 

[Hollie]

You invent this nonsense as you go along.

There is no serious discussion with a cut and paste spammer.

No. I already told you. I have been searching for truth for 23 years. I'm not making anything up. This is the culmination of 23 years of research and effort.

You on the other hand act like a propagandist. You offer no evidence, you offer no explanations, you offer no reasoning or logic.

If the fate of Israel rests upon your abilities, they will be speaking palestinian soon.

I have an entire body of peer reviewed science to enlist. The scientific record is evidence for the natural world.

What is interesting is that not a single scientific discovery requires magic or supernaturalism to be discoverable or unstandable.


For millennia, “theologians” have constructed elaborate and ultimately futile models of reality and truth, with next to no positive impact on the human condition. Science in dramatic contrast is among the youngest of human of human endeavors, and yet has achieved things no previous discipline has approached. It has fed the hungry, cured disease, created technology that four generations ago would have been unimaginable. It has literally changed our world, while religions like Christianity and Islam have done little more than churn human misfortune in a static embrace of past error. Unlike all the philosophies and religions that came before it, science actually works.

Science is the study of nature to discover the order within nature so as to make predictions about the order of nature. Which means that science can study everything after the creation of space and time. The only inference that science can provide about what happened before the beginning of space and time is that the creation of space and time followed rules and laws. So I have the exact same list of peer reviewed scientists as you do. And I am willing to bet that over the last 23 years I am the only one of the two of us that has studied their work.

You will dismiss science that does not suit your purpose.

That’s rather silly as your appeals to spirit realms and supernaturalism are not discoverable by science.

It is science that has given us a first, but incomplete understanding of the cosmos. As with so much of your supernaturally based worldview that is corrupted by fear and superstition, you cant even define what you mean with slogans such as "spirits". You really need to look past Harun Yahya for your science data.

No. That's the limits of science. The question of what created the material world resides in philosophy. You are the one who speaks of spirit realms and supernaturalism. I just leave it at the question did spirit create the material world. I limit it to consciousness without a body. To us it is supernatural because all we know is the natural. You like to use weasel words to convey a fairy tale. Whereas I understand the significance of an account that was so important that ancient man created allegorical accounts so they could pass that knowledge down to the next generation. And each and every generation believed it was important enough to keep passing it down orally for thousands of years. I think you are the palestinian.

That of course is false as you're attempting to denigrate science by equating it with philosophical arguments that define claims to gods and supernaturalism. The flaw in your argument is that you need to reduce the process of science and the consensus it brings to a “philosophical“ argument such as the existence of gods. There is nothing philosophical about the scientific method. Science relies on evidence, testing, falsifying and repeatable results to interpret data. Those elements are not available in the case of hearsay evidence with admittedly varying levels of claimed authenticity as it relates to claims of gods.