Dogs refuse to eat vegan "meat"...

[Flopper]

Dogs are smart.

Dog are most carnivores.

 

[buttercup]

That's what it takes to eat animals. I've known that since childhood and I know that it's done humanely. I'm not bothered by it at all.

Yes, but you are contradicting yourself. Because earlier you admitted that supporting animal abuse is a sin.

And now you seem to be saying that we have to do that. No, you really don't. It's a choice.

 

[Road Runner]

Yes, but you are contradicting yourself. Because earlier you admitted that supporting animal abuse is a sin.

And now you seem to be saying that we have to do that. No, you really don't. It's a choice.

You have to do that if you want to eat animals. We do, you don't. I don't understand why we can't just agree to disagree and continue on living our lives the way we choose to.

 

[Coyote]

Absolutely and demonstrably false. The Garden of Eden, before sin came into the world, was basically paradise. Genesis 1:29-30 clearly states our God-given diet, and for both humans AND animals was completely plantbased.

And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.​

​

Genesis 1:29-30​

It divides the plants into two groups, with one type (grains and fruit) to be for man, and the other, pasturage and forage, for animals. If go by this, you cannot eat leafy greens or root vegetables either.

It does not expressly forbid the eating of meat, and if there is one thing the Bible excels at, it’s forbidding stuff.

Genesis also says this:

And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

It sounds like to each it’s own nature, the acceptance of such.

And another contradiction. Why are livestock, specifically referenced, if we are not meant to eat them and/or utilize their products.

From a biblical perspective there wasn't even death in the world before sin, so in light of that, is absurd to say that animals and humans killed each other in paradise....before death was even introduced! Keep in mind, we are talking about God's original design. Not what happened later, due to the Fall of man when sin came into the world.

It is actually full of contradictions.

You're describing the way the world is now. But Kathy was 100% correct when she said the way the world is now is NOT the way it was in the very beginning, from a biblical perspective. Of course you are free to believe what you want, and since you're not a Christian by your own admission, I wouldn't expect you to believe the biblical view.

But you still have a major contradiction. If believe the Biblical view of life, then it was created as it is now, unchanged. Animals can’t sin. So why are there carnivores, biologically unable to process plant material, in existence?

But what you can't do is make a false claim about the biblical position, which you seem to be doing when you say the way the world is now is the way it has always been according to the bible. The exact opposite is true.

I am not making any false claims.

According to the bible, this is a fallen world. The bible even lists many of the changes that happened after the Fall of man, after sin came into the world, and it has gradually gotten even worse from there.

Don't get me wrong. Again, I don't expect you to believe this since you're not a Christian. But some of us have simply been stating the biblical view, and according to the bible, both humans and animals were herbivores in the very beginning, and one day when Jesus returns, that original Edenic world of peace and harmony will be restored, according to the prophetic scriptures.

Please read this passage below, about the future restored world:

The wolf will live with the lamb,​

and the leopard will lie down with the goat.​

The calf, the young lion, and the fatling will be together,​

and a child will lead them.​

The cow and the bear will graze,​

their young ones will lie down together,​

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.​

An infant will play beside the cobra’s pit,​

and a toddler will put his hand into a snake’s den.​

None will harm or destroy another​

on My entire holy mountain,​

for the land will be as full​

of the knowledge of the Lord​

as the sea is filled with water.​

​

Isaiah 11:6-9​

It is a beautiful passage and I’ve always loved it, but I don’t take it literally. What is says to me is more about how we humans should act, rather then the other animal nations we live amongst.

 

[buttercup]

You have to do that if you want to eat animals. We do, you don't. I don't understand why we can't just agree to disagree and continue on living our lives the way we choose to.

Ok, no worries, we don't have to debate this anymore. I have other things I'm supposed to be doing anyway.

But one last thing in regard to what you just said...Keep in mind that as Christian we are commanded to be merciful. Being merciful is incompatible with knowingly paying for animal cruelty, abuse and needless killing. If you disagree, please change my mind. (we can continue this some other time though, I gotta sign off of here.)

 

[Road Runner]

Ok, no worries, we don't have to debate this anymore. I have other things I'm supposed to be doing anyway.

But one last thing in regard to what you just said...Keep in mind that as Christian we are commanded to be merciful. Being merciful is incompatible with knowingly paying for animal cruelty, abuse and needless killing. If you disagree, please change my mind. (we can continue this some other time though, I gotta sign off of here.)

No I don't want to debate anymore or try and change your mind. Like I said before, you don't have to eat animals but I can and so can anybody else who wants to.

 

[Coyote]

Another one of those loons that think that milking hurts a cow. YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is an abusive industry for other reasons.

 

[Coyote]

IMO, the problem is not in eating meat, but in overconsumption and reducing living things to “product”.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

IMO, the problem is not in eating meat, but in overconsumption and reducing living things to “product”.

KINDA agree with this.

Modern Farming is unimaginably cruel to animals. I believe those who treat animals like a "crop" will have a lot to answer for on Judgement Day -- as will the airheads who have been told, but ignored YOUR part in this cruel practice. You airheads know who you are. The videos are there. You refuse to see, just as pro-aborts REFUSE to acknowledge what "we" do to "unwanted" babies.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

No.

Gutless

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The Bible is not something to base your eating habits on.

Just sayin.....

It absolutely is. That was an incredibly asinine post

 

[kathydunn]

That does not make sense to me. If you follow the story of creation, all creatures were created in the form they are now in. That means that obligate carnivore would have starved in Eden lacking the teeth, enzymes and digestive systems to process plant material. Those changes are not behavioral, they are evolutionary.

There is also the cycle of life that is interrupted when you delete an element. Predators kill an animal, but seldom consume it all. That leaves portions of it for scavengers: mammals like hyenas with specialized teeth and jaws and teeth for breaking bones, birds of many types, small mammals and insects. All eating meat because something has to break down a carcass. There are also other Great Families to consider: insects, fish, etc that are in the same cycles and it is perfectly tuned that losing an element can cause the system to crash.

When you look at something so perfect it’s impossible to imagine it so disrupted as it would be in your vision of Paradise. No population balancing. That is why my view trends towards paradise being that we are a part of this perfect incredible system that God created. Within the system we are close to God, outside of it, we are not.

We cannot tell by the Genesis story if animals were created in the present form they are in now. It is impossible to know that. It is speculation, but likely the animals in the garden were quite different than the ones we now know. It was sin, which is separation from God, that brought violence into the creation. Man became violent, as depicted by the Cain and Abel story.

Genesis 1:30 says that animals were herbivorous. The diet in Genesis 1:29 prescribed seed bearing plants, fruits and vegetation, to man and the green grass and other vegetation to the animals. So there was no perfect predatory system in the garden of eden. Animals could have been very different. Adaptation to a sinful fallen world where men no longer are in proper relationship over the animals may drive them to evolve in ways to survive. We don't know if mosquitoes and other insects designed to serve the purposes they do in this fallen world even existed in the garden of Eden.

What you describe is a fallen world. Paradise would have looked far different than this, and the world to come will look far different from it again in the new age. There were no breaking of bones in paradise. We are told very little about the creation story and what the world looked like. But we can surmise a lot about it given what God says his heart is in passages in Isaiah where the lion lives with the lamb, the child puts her hand in the Cobra's den, children leading wild animals, and other prophetic books that describe Paradise as a place of peace and that clearly tell us that God wants peace between all aspects of his creation.

Other clues that God's Paradise was far different and that God's heart for all his creation is for peace, is written all throughout scripture. One of the ten commandments tells us not to kill. Almost all of scripture after the fall is God reaching into this world to try to pull us back to him and reject other gods, to get us to do justly, to love mercy, to love kindness, to stop killing each other and the animals, and instead to create a world that is just and looks more like the passages in Isaiah that were aforementioned.

 

[westwall]

It absolutely is. That was an incredibly asinine post

Not really. How many contradictory passages are there?

Remember, the Bible was written by MEN.

Not God.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

But we can surmise a lot about it given what God says his heart is in passages in Isaiah where the lion lives with the lamb, the child puts her hand in the Cobra's den, children leading wild animals, and other prophetic books that describe Paradise as a place of peace and that clearly tell us that God wants peace between all aspects of his creation

I believe the ONLY reason we don't have this NOW is because the Creation is waiting for Man to change. As our relationship with the Creation changes so will the nature of the animals change to what God had originally intended.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Not really. How many contradictory passages are there?

Remember, the Bible was written by MEN.

Not God.

Zero contradiction. If you think there are, you are ignorant of the Bible.

GOD inspired EVERY word. If you want to believe the Bible is not the Word of God, that's your choice. But you are WRONG and foolish

 

[westwall]

Zero contradiction. If you think there are, you are ignorant of the Bible.

GOD inspired EVERY word. If you want to believe the Bible is not the Word of God, that's your choice. But you are WRONG and foolish

I have read the Bible several times, and yes, it contradicts itself.

The Gospels were written years after Jesus died, so I kinda doubt God was talking to them.

The Old Testament is a compilation of MANY more ancient writings, from several ancient civilizations.

 

[Synthaholic]

There is meat, and there is crap made from vegetables made to look like some sort of meat product.

I'm curious as to why you characterize it as "crap", hjmick. If you have tried a wide variety of it and do not like the taste, ok. If not, it seems like a pre-conceived prejudice that's unwarranted.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I have read the Bible several times, and yes, it contradicts itself.

The Gospels were written years after Jesus died, so I kinda doubt God was talking to them.

The Old Testament is a compilation of MANY more ancient writings, from several ancient civilizations.

You're free to believe that. I really don't care if you do or not. It's irrelevant how I choose to live my life

You're creating excuses to justify animal cruelty. Good luck convincing yourself
.

 

[kathydunn]

Genesis 9:3-6. Look it up because I'm too lazy to type it up lol maybe we might have all started out as plant eaters and maybe we will be in Heaven too, but that doesn't mean that we are forbidden to eat meat now.

These verses are totally taken out of context when being used to to say that it's okay to eat meat, as if there's nothing wrong with it and that God is perfectly fine with it. This is NOT what these verses teach! God's perfect will for us is described before the fall in Genesis 1, where he prescribes a plant-based diet for humans and animals.

Genesis 1:29 and 30:
"29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.(A) 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life(B) in it—I give every green plant for food.(C)” And it was so."

Here is an excellent video on the subject:

https://creationcarechurch.org/friday-night-live-28-is-it-a-sin-to-eat-animals/

 

[Road Runner]

You're free to believe that. I really don't care if you do or not. It's irrelevant how I choose to live my life

Then why is everybody making a HUGE fucking deal about what we believe and what we don't!? Jeeze!!!