Don't think we live in a police state?

[MikeK]

In moscow however, when they take you, as I said before, you don't know why, where nor for how long, let alone being able to complain to any institution that is available to you.

What you need to understand is at one time in America, and not so long ago, that possibility did not exist. Today it is written into law. The President, or anyone whom he designates, can have you arrested a la KGB and confined indefinitely without charges or a hearing. The very idea that it now is possible is frightening. The fact that it doesn't happen commonly hangs precariously on the word -- yet.

So I find claiming US being a police state a big exaggeration, considering the world we are living in.

We are concerned with America. Not North Korea. That is a different world.

 

[MikeK]

Gee, here i am a 60 year old rough tough take no shit retired Sergeant and I have never had a negative problem with the police.

I've been pulled over at check points and got a ticket for a tag that was expired by one day...Officer didn't care that I was out of town and on my way home...Oh well, i should have taken care of it before i left....

I've been pulled over for suspicion of DUI... Played the game straight, answered their questions and moved on.

Got pulled over by border patrol, answered their questions and moved on in less than 3 minutes.

And I've had two officer pull me over for speeding and neither gave me a ticket.

Then there was the one who helped me change a flat tire...

Police state? I think not. Idiots who want to push the limits...yeah they are out there.....

Nor have I - a retired CWO. That isn't the point Sergeant. There USED to be give and take by law enforcement. I have a nephew who is a Detective in Atlanta. HE even says that HE has seen a change in cops.

Today, the police (and again) not every police officer, seem to think that they can do as they please, when they please and to hell with the consequences. This is not right. I understand that they have a tough job. However - as I'm sure you heard in the NCO Academy, BNCOC or PNCOC - either do it right, or get the hell out.

Americans DO have rights - at least at this point - and the police can NOT abuse them.

Owner of Dog Shot by Police Wants Apology | NBC Bay Area

They just don't care any longer.

No one is making any claim that some (a minority) of officers act like idiots and smart asses, even power hungry.... But the guy who wrote the Op firmly believes that all police are bad. His thread is not about a police state but about him hating any and all police officers.....

Ollie, maybe he has cause. Like the young man in the video has cause to feel differently about the police than he did on the day before that incident. I often watch the COPS documentary and some of the things I see on that relatively pro-police programming angers me against them.

I know all cops aren't the same, but one bad one stigmatizes all who wear a uniform. That's a sad fact of life. Just look at what the My Lai incident did to the reputation of U.S. soldiers.

Unfortunately for the good cops they are unable to act against the bad ones because of the thin blue line factor. Their very lives depend on not being thought of as "rats" (the Serpico syndrome).

 

[jasonnfree]

Gee, here i am a 60 year old rough tough take no shit retired Sergeant and I have never had a negative problem with the police.

I've been pulled over at check points and got a ticket for a tag that was expired by one day...Officer didn't care that I was out of town and on my way home...Oh well, i should have taken care of it before i left....

I've been pulled over for suspicion of DUI... Played the game straight, answered their questions and moved on.

Got pulled over by border patrol, answered their questions and moved on in less than 3 minutes.

And I've had two officer pull me over for speeding and neither gave me a ticket.

Then there was the one who helped me change a flat tire...

Police state? I think not. Idiots who want to push the limits...yeah they are out there.....

Rough and tough take no shit from people of lower rank than you is what you mean. You're no threat to the police. They can read in your demeanor a lifetime of obeying orders no matter how stupid so as not to jeopardize your pension. We are slowly becoming a police state, not there yet, but you're the type that will be ratting out the rebels to the authorities when the police state does get here, that's for sure.

 

[MikeK]

I think it would be a stretch to imagine US becoming a police state.

Fifty years ago I would have said the same thing. Maybe less than fifty.

 

[alpine]

In moscow however, when they take you, as I said before, you don't know why, where nor for how long, let alone being able to complain to any institution that is available to you.

What you need to understand is at one time in America, and not so long ago, that possibility did not exist. Today it is written into law. The President, or anyone whom he designates, can have you arrested a la KGB and confined indefinitely without charges or a hearing. The very idea that it now is possible is frightening. The fact that it doesn't happen commonly hangs precariously on the word -- yet.

So I find claiming US being a police state a big exaggeration, considering the world we are living in.

We are concerned with America. Not North Korea. That is a different world.

Yes, exactly. You are CONCERNED. That is the key word. You know to whom police state happens to? To people who are not concerned, who don't really give a shit to what happens to them, they get police state happen to them.

Happened to so many. Mid easterners, latinos, asians... You name it, it happened. They got desperate and they didn't care anymore. Than police state happened.

What you call "police state" is not something happens for no reason and US simply don't have those reasons. You have to be economically collapsed, you have to be socially polarized, you need to be oppressed, depressed, suppressed,... then it happens. It happens with hatred. Your society have to have hatred amongst each other because no police state happened without the support of people themselves. It happens with popular support in fact, against an inner enemy. So if your society is not polarized enough, police state will not occur.

President or a person he himself appointed being able to detain anyone for any reason for any amount of time does not make you a police state. It doesn't even get you closer. He knows he will not be elected by his "concerned" people if he exercise it carelessly, he is aware of this fact. When they are categorizing states as "police states", they are talking about regular police on the street taking you in for no reason, for any amount of time, thats what makes you a police state, and you are far far away from that, IMO...

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Brainwashed RW idiocy- end of story. Police state: no juries PERIOD. ETC, hater dupes...

 

[SFC Ollie]

Whoever thinks he/she is living in a police state in the USA, obviously have never been in a police state.

So, the answer is; no, you are not living in a police state. In fact you are living in one of the most free states one can live in, at least on this planet.

And you either are too young to remember a time when such conduct by police would not be tolerated in America, or you are a textbook authoritarian submissive personality. Because what you just watched is a brazenly bullying violation of the spirit and intention of the Fourth Amendment which has been facilitated by a series of deviously constructed evasions of our Constitutional protections. It certainly is police state behavior.

You should have no doubt that had this perfectly innocent young man not complied with the demands of those uniformed goons, whose obvious primary motivation was to assert their authority, they would have broken his window, hauled him out of his car, smashed him face down on the pavement, handcuffed him, and quite possibly have planted drugs in his car to justify their bullying.

This is a perfect example of why hatred for police is increasing in America. Unfortunately, police who do not behave this way are stigmatized by this type of goon. This young man, who probably is a very ordinary, decent, law-abiding, productive citizen will never forget this experience and will always harbor resentment for the police. And throughout his life when he hears or reads about police officers killed in the line of duty his response will be appropriately affected by this experience.

Horseshit, had he complied right from the get go he would have been on his way in less than 5 minutes....

 

[Sunshine]

I can't even hear the term "DUI checkpoint" without thinking of a hilarious case I read in law school. It was a TN case.

Police put up a sign on the interstate that said, "DUI checkpoint ahead." They were not stopping traffic and in fact were not actually on the interstate. Cars had to take the exit, and could have legally driven right on past with no repercussions. One dumb shit left the interstate for the DUI checkpoint, and police discovered his trunk full of cannabis!

It just doesn't get funnier. He could have driven past with no problem whatsoever.

 

[Sunshine]

Whoever thinks he/she is living in a police state in the USA, obviously have never been in a police state.

So, the answer is; no, you are not living in a police state. In fact you are living in one of the most free states one can live in, at least on this planet.

Absolutely true. In Beijing, two officers on every corner.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Gee, here i am a 60 year old rough tough take no shit retired Sergeant and I have never had a negative problem with the police.

I've been pulled over at check points and got a ticket for a tag that was expired by one day...Officer didn't care that I was out of town and on my way home...Oh well, i should have taken care of it before i left....

I've been pulled over for suspicion of DUI... Played the game straight, answered their questions and moved on.

Got pulled over by border patrol, answered their questions and moved on in less than 3 minutes.

And I've had two officer pull me over for speeding and neither gave me a ticket.

Then there was the one who helped me change a flat tire...

Police state? I think not. Idiots who want to push the limits...yeah they are out there.....

Rough and tough take no shit from people of lower rank than you is what you mean. You're no threat to the police. They can read in your demeanor a lifetime of obeying orders no matter how stupid so as not to jeopardize your pension. We are slowly becoming a police state, not there yet, but you're the type that will be ratting out the rebels to the authorities when the police state does get here, that's for sure.

Bullshit. plain simple bullshit.

 

[Contumacious]

Whoever thinks he/she is living in a police state in the USA, obviously have never been in a police state.

So, the answer is; no, you are not living in a police state. In fact you are living in one of the most free states one can live in, at least on this planet.

And you either are too young to remember a time when such conduct by police would not be tolerated in America, or you are a textbook authoritarian submissive personality. Because what you just watched is a brazenly bullying violation of the spirit and intention of the Fourth Amendment which has been facilitated by a series of deviously constructed evasions of our Constitutional protections. It certainly is police state behavior.

You should have no doubt that had this perfectly innocent young man not complied with the demands of those uniformed goons, whose obvious primary motivation was to assert their authority, they would have broken his window, hauled him out of his car, smashed him face down on the pavement, handcuffed him, and quite possibly have planted drugs in his car to justify their bullying.

This is a perfect example of why hatred for police is increasing in America. Unfortunately, police who do not behave this way are stigmatized by this type of goon. This young man, who probably is a very ordinary, decent, law-abiding, productive citizen will never forget this experience and will always harbor resentment for the police. And throughout his life when he hears or reads about police officers killed in the line of duty his response will be appropriately affected by this experience.

Excellent post.

These are really neat [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CPTE62M/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]dash-board cams.[/ame]

.

 

[alpine]

I am used to debate people that their country is a police state.

For the first time I am debating the other way around.

This is funny

 

[National Socialist]

Man Shot Dead By Police While Watering Neighbor?s Lawn | REALfarmacy.com | Healthy News and Information

Real threat there...nazis at it again.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Why are 15K Russian troops being deployed for things like Super Bowl events and things of this nature? Why has the MSM ignored this fact? Why has Hussein intentionally violated Posse Commitatus?

 

[Unkotare]

Whoever thinks he/she is living in a police state in the USA, obviously have never been in a police state.

So, the answer is; no, you are not living in a police state. In fact you are living in one of the most free states one can live in, at least on this planet.

Absolutely true. In Beijing, two officers on every corner.

No, not on every corner.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Why are 15K Russian troops being deployed for things like Super Bowl events and things of this nature? Why has the MSM ignored this fact? Why has Hussein intentionally violated Posse Commitatus?

Links........???????

 

[MikeK]

This guy was an idiot. The entire situation could have been avoided by rolling down his window in the first place. He didn't want the police to check his license and let him through. His intent was to stir up shit from the beginning. He even had his camera ready for the inevitable shitstorm. Need proof we don't live in a police state? This idiot walked away with his teeth intact.

Because your natural instinct is to submit to oppressive conduct by police you should not assume everyone is similarly submissive.

I personally have no problem with properly conducted DUI checkpoints, because they serve an important and necessary purpose. But I have a big problem with police who have acquired the notion this is the old East Germany and they are the Stasi. And it's important to note that one common reason why police acquire that attitude is the prevalence of authoritarian submissive individuals who are content to put up with the kind of oppressive treatment we saw in the video. Regardless of that young man's motives he did us all a favor by calling attention to something which should not be tolerated.

The ostensible purpose of that checkpoint was to examine the condition of drivers for the singular purpose of detecting DUI. The proper procedure calls for the police officer to politely request citizen cooperation -- not to behave like North Korean border guards.

When the officer ordered that driver to "Roll your window down!," the driver was perfectly within his rights to politely ask why, which is what he did. And the officer is required to politely inform him of the reason -- which is a DUI inspection. But you saw what actually transpired. And if that sort of behavior is alright with you let me assure you it is not alright with many other Americans who simply don't like being treated as if this is not America anymore.

While it has been made legal to stop cars for the purpose of randomly inspecting for DUI, it is not legal to stop cars to randomly search for drugs -- which is exactly what the driver in the video was subjected to. His Fourth Amendment protection was clearly violated. And I hope the uniformed bullies who violated it are fired and their supervisors are appropriately sanctioned.

As to your conclusion that the young man was lucky he was able to walk away without losing teeth, let me assure you the only reason it ended that way is having discovered the camera those cops could not be sure they were not being subjected to a state Internal Affairs investigation.

I am eager to learn if that driver has lodged a complaint and what the outcome is.

 

[MikeK]

I am used to debate people that their country is a police state.

For the first time I am debating the other way around.

This is funny

The reason for the conflicting opinions is you have not been living in America long enough to remember how it used to be. There was a time when the words Freedom and Liberty had clear meaning and the police carefully avoided violating a citizen's Constitutional rights. Police behavior toward innocent citizens such as we saw in the video simply did not exist. The police knew better.

While it's true that America is not yet a full-blown police state such as you are acquainted with, there is no question it is headed in that direction.

 

[National Socialist]

Why are 15K Russian troops being deployed for things like Super Bowl events and things of this nature? Why has the MSM ignored this fact? Why has Hussein intentionally violated Posse Commitatus?

Links........???????

US Gov?t Stockpiling Weapons, Ammo, And?Requesting 15,000 Russian Troops?
Obama Requests 15,000 Russian Troops For ?Upcoming? Disaster | EUTimes.net
DHS: Napolitano Bringing 15,000 Russian Troops to U.S
https://www.google.com/webhp?source....r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.eWU&biw=1366&bih=667

Take your pick.

 

[MikeK]

Screwing with cops makes things worse.

So your natural instinct is to submit?

If so, I recommend this book to you: Escape From Freedom. By Dr. Erich Fromm (available in paperback from Amazon). In it you will learn about the dominant and submissive authoritarian personalities, how each evolves, and their effect on politics and personal relationships.

It is interesting to note that extreme examples of both orientations are demonstrated in what ordinarily is referred to as "B & D" (Bondage & Domination) sexual activity in which one party physically abuses the other, a ritual from which both derive sexual gratification.

Now, do you believe submission to authority is better than resistance when one knows one's rights are being ignored or violated?