Drones - its a method - who cares?

[JoeB131]

Drones - its a method - who cares?

If its illegal and/or morally wrong to kill someone - then its illegal and/or morally wrong to kil them. It doesn't matter how they were killed, does it?

On the other hand - if its legal and/or morally right to kill someone - such as legitimate military targets - then why is it wrong to use a method which places U.S. servicemen at a minimal risk?


Seems to me that the same folks who were fine with us setting Baghdad on fire using smart bombs and - at the same time - placing U.S. pilots at risk - are against using unmanned aircraft to conduct more surgical strikes of military targets. Do you guys want U.S. servicemen to die, or do you just hate Obama?

I think their Obama Derangement Syndrome aside, there is something unnerving about drones.

The notion of machines that can go out and kill people? It's kind of the stuff of dystopian nightmares.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

There was a legitimate target in that strike, I've posted it several times but the rightwing inmates here simply ignore that fact because it ruins their myth;

it's like the fundamentalist religious nuts who think the Earth is 6000 years old - no amount of fact will change their minds.

The 9/11 Pentagon attack was against a legitimate military target so I assume it was fine to kill a load of civilians in the process as they simply got in the way.

Or not?

So you're claiming that the firebombing of Tokyo wasn't justified even though we were in a war started by Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.

Okay. So how would you have reacted to the attack on Pearl Harbor?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

A New York cop is on the street and sees someone he thinks is a very dangerous mass murderer who he's been hunting down.
He shoots the man and kills him.

Oh, bugger, wrong guy - No worries; could have happened to anyone - carry on.

Would that happen and, if it did, would the cop get away scot free?

Should we add you to the list of people in this thread who have decided its time to stop going after Al Qaeda?

 

[NYcarbineer]

To have the ability to assassinate a citizen of America without a trial is just flat out wrong.

Assassinating Children - YEMEN DRONE MASSACRES

Abdulrahman al-Awlakiby Jacob G. Hornberger

The extraordinary power of the U.S. government to assassinate people has, once again, been manifested in the assassination of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

No, that's not Anwar al-Awlaki, the American Muslim cleric whom U.S. officials recently assassinated in Yemen. That's Abdulrahm al-Awlaki, the 16-year-old son of Anwar al-Awlaki.

There are several things that are especially fascinating about the U.S. government's assassination of this American teenager, who apparently traveled to Yemen looking for his father before his father was assassinated:

First, the U.S. government has assassinated a minor.

Second, no one except the assassins knows why they assassinated the boy.

Third, the people who planned and carried out the assassination — from President Obama, to the Pentagon, to the CIA — aren't talking.

Fourth, nobody can force them to explain why they killed the boy.

Noam Chomsky - Deterring Democracy: Assassinating Children - YEMEN DRONE MASSACRES

The killing of enemy combatants during war is not 'assassination' in the sense you are trying to use that word.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gibbs is right. The parent made a bad choice, placed the child with enemies of America, and the child paid a horrible price for the parent's bad choices.

Oh, any further talk about lack of due process, etc., merely witnesses that the person talking such has not a clue how the law works or how military operations work.

This is the point. He was a boy in a war zone "who snuck out of his family's home in the early morning hours of September 4, 2011, to try to find [his father]."

The boy should not have been in a war zone. Those who placed him there are responsible, not the USA.

 

[Freewill]

To have the ability to assassinate a citizen of America without a trial is just flat out wrong.

Assassinating Children - YEMEN DRONE MASSACRES

Abdulrahman al-Awlakiby Jacob G. Hornberger

The extraordinary power of the U.S. government to assassinate people has, once again, been manifested in the assassination of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

No, that's not Anwar al-Awlaki, the American Muslim cleric whom U.S. officials recently assassinated in Yemen. That's Abdulrahm al-Awlaki, the 16-year-old son of Anwar al-Awlaki.

There are several things that are especially fascinating about the U.S. government's assassination of this American teenager, who apparently traveled to Yemen looking for his father before his father was assassinated:

First, the U.S. government has assassinated a minor.

Second, no one except the assassins knows why they assassinated the boy.

Third, the people who planned and carried out the assassination — from President Obama, to the Pentagon, to the CIA — aren't talking.

Fourth, nobody can force them to explain why they killed the boy.

Noam Chomsky - Deterring Democracy: Assassinating Children - YEMEN DRONE MASSACRES

The killing of enemy combatants during war is not 'assassination' in the sense you are trying to use that word.

How about the targeting and killing of a 16 year old who isn't a terrorist by any definition, except of course the liberal left when just the father being a terrorist taints the son.

Manslaughter?

Criminal Negligence?

OOPSIE?

 

[NYcarbineer]

To have the ability to assassinate a citizen of America without a trial is just flat out wrong.

Assassinating Children - YEMEN DRONE MASSACRES

Abdulrahman al-Awlakiby Jacob G. Hornberger

The extraordinary power of the U.S. government to assassinate people has, once again, been manifested in the assassination of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

No, that's not Anwar al-Awlaki, the American Muslim cleric whom U.S. officials recently assassinated in Yemen. That's Abdulrahm al-Awlaki, the 16-year-old son of Anwar al-Awlaki.

There are several things that are especially fascinating about the U.S. government's assassination of this American teenager, who apparently traveled to Yemen looking for his father before his father was assassinated:

First, the U.S. government has assassinated a minor.

Second, no one except the assassins knows why they assassinated the boy.

Third, the people who planned and carried out the assassination — from President Obama, to the Pentagon, to the CIA — aren't talking.

Fourth, nobody can force them to explain why they killed the boy.

Noam Chomsky - Deterring Democracy: Assassinating Children - YEMEN DRONE MASSACRES

The killing of enemy combatants during war is not 'assassination' in the sense you are trying to use that word.

How about the targeting and killing of a 16 year old who isn't a terrorist by any definition, except of course the liberal left when just the father being a terrorist taints the son.

Manslaughter?

Criminal Negligence?

OOPSIE?

He wasn't targeted. Stop repeating the same crap over and over again like some sort of mental patient.

We already have you on record stating that the US cannot kill members of Al Qaeda under any circumstances where there is risk an innocent might also be killed,

so you want to end the war against Al Qaeda and let them do as they please. Fine,

you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Freewill has a picture of Osama hanging on his wall.

 

[Freewill]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

You point out what is wrong with the drone program, we are more or less killing them all and letting God sort them out. What is happening is some device is being placed to target the victim. We pay for these to be placed so there is reason to place them anywhere as has been admitted, in the Huffington Post no less. So I am thinking if I don't like someone, like they are an American, I place a tracking device and poof they are gone.

Murder? Maybe not. Manslaughter, maybe. Negligent homicide? Definitely. Now if this had occurred in Afghanistan maybe we could use the war zone argument, but Yemen? By reports Yemen has been clearing out Al Quada without our help. They now hate us for the drone and Pakistan has had a court hearing that has ruled the US is guilty of war crimes.

And NO this did not happen during Bush. Some drone strikes but not of this magnitude.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Using aircraft to kill civilians is terrorism but using aircraft to kill civilians is a much needed form of defence against terrorists.

All Americans have the right to trial expept the ones who you chose to execute without trial.

Can anyone see the problems here?

No. An American by his or her actions can lose the right to a trial before being killed.

 

[Freewill]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

There was a legitimate target in that strike, I've posted it several times but the rightwing inmates here simply ignore that fact because it ruins their myth;

it's like the fundamentalist religious nuts who think the Earth is 6000 years old - no amount of fact will change their minds.

Do it again, I have never seen the post. So post the legitimate target and why you think it is legitimate to attack in Yemen and why you are so indifferent to the killing of children.

 

[Freewill]

Gibbs is right. The parent made a bad choice, placed the child with enemies of America, and the child paid a horrible price for the parent's bad choices.

Oh, any further talk about lack of due process, etc., merely witnesses that the person talking such has not a clue how the law works or how military operations work.

This is the point. He was a boy in a war zone "who snuck out of his family's home in the early morning hours of September 4, 2011, to try to find [his father]."

The boy should not have been in a war zone. Those who placed him there are responsible, not the USA.

What war zone? If you are saying the entire world is a war zone then yes. If you are saying anywhere a brown skinned people live then I think you wrong. If you are saying Yemen then tell us when that became a war zone.

 

[Indofred]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

A New York cop is on the street and sees someone he thinks is a very dangerous mass murderer who he's been hunting down.
He shoots the man and kills him.

Oh, bugger, wrong guy - No worries; could have happened to anyone - carry on.

Would that happen and, if it did, would the cop get away scot free?

Should we add you to the list of people in this thread who have decided its time to stop going after Al Qaeda?

I believe my objection is to murdering civilians; in several cases, American civilians executed without trial.
Are you saying, you support it?

 

[Freewill]

when Bush invaded?

Bush invaded Pakistan? Are you for real?

He did.
The invasion was restricted to drones, illegally entering another country's airspace to kill people but it was still an invasion.
You lot would complain if Mexico did it to you.

So you think Obama's expanded invasion is wrong?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

You point out what is wrong with the drone program, we are more or less killing them all and letting God sort them out. What is happening is some device is being placed to target the victim. We pay for these to be placed so there is reason to place them anywhere as has been admitted, in the Huffington Post no less. So I am thinking if I don't like someone, like they are an American, I place a tracking device and poof they are gone.

Murder? Maybe not. Manslaughter, maybe. Negligent homicide? Definitely. Now if this had occurred in Afghanistan maybe we could use the war zone argument, but Yemen? By reports Yemen has been clearing out Al Quada without our help. They now hate us for the drone and Pakistan has had a court hearing that has ruled the US is guilty of war crimes.

And NO this did not happen during Bush. Some drone strikes but not of this magnitude.

Bush's military killed Zarqawi with 500 lb bombs that also killed his wife and kid. Why aren't you accusing Bush of murder?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A New York cop is on the street and sees someone he thinks is a very dangerous mass murderer who he's been hunting down.
He shoots the man and kills him.

Oh, bugger, wrong guy - No worries; could have happened to anyone - carry on.

Would that happen and, if it did, would the cop get away scot free?

Should we add you to the list of people in this thread who have decided its time to stop going after Al Qaeda?

I believe my objection is to murdering civilians; in several cases, American civilians executed without trial.
Are you saying, you support it?

An American who has joined forces with a declared enemy of the US only has a right to a trial if he is captured. He can, on the other hand, be killed in military action just like any other member of the enemy forces. There are no rules of war broken in such cases; there are no constitutional violations in such cases.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

There was a legitimate target in that strike, I've posted it several times but the rightwing inmates here simply ignore that fact because it ruins their myth;

it's like the fundamentalist religious nuts who think the Earth is 6000 years old - no amount of fact will change their minds.

Do it again, I have never seen the post. So post the legitimate target and why you think it is legitimate to attack in Yemen and why you are so indifferent to the killing of children.

1. Since you replied to the post, you are either lying or losing your mind.

2. Why wouldn't you know it in the first place? You profess to be an expert on that particular drone attack, but apparently you don't have any idea of what the details of it were,

except whatever filtered garbage you're getting from propaganda sites.

 

[Freewill]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

You point out what is wrong with the drone program, we are more or less killing them all and letting God sort them out. What is happening is some device is being placed to target the victim. We pay for these to be placed so there is reason to place them anywhere as has been admitted, in the Huffington Post no less. So I am thinking if I don't like someone, like they are an American, I place a tracking device and poof they are gone.

Murder? Maybe not. Manslaughter, maybe. Negligent homicide? Definitely. Now if this had occurred in Afghanistan maybe we could use the war zone argument, but Yemen? By reports Yemen has been clearing out Al Quada without our help. They now hate us for the drone and Pakistan has had a court hearing that has ruled the US is guilty of war crimes.

And NO this did not happen during Bush. Some drone strikes but not of this magnitude.

Bush's military killed Zarqawi with 500 lb bombs that also killed his wife and kid. Why aren't you accusing Bush of murder?

This is the man you compare to a 16 year old boy. This guy was actually killed in a war zone.:

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (Arabic: أبومصعب الزرقاوي*, ’Abū Muṣ‘ab az-Zarqāwī, Abu Musab from Zarqa); October 30, 1966 – June 7, 2006), born Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh (Arabic: أحمد فضيل النزال الخلايله*, ’Aḥmad Faḍīl an-Nazāl al-Ḫalāyla) was a Jordanian militant Islamist who ran a paramilitary training camp in Afghanistan. He became known after going to Iraq and being responsible for a series of bombings, beheadings, and attacks during the Iraq War.

 

[Freewill]

There was a legitimate target in that strike, I've posted it several times but the rightwing inmates here simply ignore that fact because it ruins their myth;

it's like the fundamentalist religious nuts who think the Earth is 6000 years old - no amount of fact will change their minds.

Do it again, I have never seen the post. So post the legitimate target and why you think it is legitimate to attack in Yemen and why you are so indifferent to the killing of children.

1. Since you replied to the post, you are either lying or losing your mind.

2. Why wouldn't you know it in the first place? You profess to be an expert on that particular drone attack, but apparently you don't have any idea of what the details of it were,

except whatever filtered garbage you're getting from propaganda sites.

Of course you dodge the question. Name the name not just that someone else was targeted.

You and I don't exactly know who was the target but I know who was killed and who was not. IF this were a legitimate target then why did they call it a terrible mistake. Wake up man you are arguing the wrong side.

Obama 'Surprised,' 'Upset' When Anwar Al-Awlaki's Teenage Son Was Killed By U.S. Drone Strike

A former senior official in the Obama administration told me that after Abdulrahman’s killing, the president was "surprised and upset and wanted an explanation." The former official, who worked on the targeted killing program, said that according to intelligence and Special Operations officials, the target of the strike was al-Banna, the AQAP propagandist. "We had no idea the kid was there. We were told al-Banna was alone," the former official told me. Once it became clear that the teenager had been killed, he added, military and intelligence officials asserted, "It was a mistake, a bad mistake." However, John Brennan, at the time President Obama’s senior adviser on counterterrorism and homeland security, "suspected that the kid had been killed intentionally and ordered a review. I don’t know what happened with the review."
Caitlin Hayden, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council, would not answer questions about the former official’s assertions, saying that she “can’t address specific operational matters and won’t go into our internal deliberations,” adding: "We cannot discuss the sensitive details of specific operations."


"Based on generations-old legal principles and Supreme Court decisions handed down from WWII, as well as during the current conflict, it is clear and logical the United States Citizenship alone does not make such citizens immune from being targeted," Holder wrote in his letter this week.

The decision to deliberately kill al-Awlaki underwent "exceptionally rigorous" review, Holder wrote, and was approved only because he was "a senior operational leader" within Al Qaeda. "The decision to target Anwar al-Awlaki was lawful, it was considered, and it was just.”
Drone strikes: Four American citizens killed in drone strikes (+video) - CSMonitor.com

So what is it? He was either not targeted or the decision to deliberately kill his father never happened? Holder lying?

 

[Freewill]

I am not convinced that the Obama Administration intentionally targeted the 16-year-old kid.

And the US does not cruise the low-altitude skies over Yemen looking for campfires to shoot $80K missiles at.

When the story comes out...

My money is on an Intended Kill against some valid Terrorist Target.

An Intended Kill that went wrong in some way.

Up to and including (perhaps even primarily due to) Bad Intelligence.

Again.

You point out what is wrong with the drone program, we are more or less killing them all and letting God sort them out. What is happening is some device is being placed to target the victim. We pay for these to be placed so there is reason to place them anywhere as has been admitted, in the Huffington Post no less. So I am thinking if I don't like someone, like they are an American, I place a tracking device and poof they are gone.

Murder? Maybe not. Manslaughter, maybe. Negligent homicide? Definitely. Now if this had occurred in Afghanistan maybe we could use the war zone argument, but Yemen? By reports Yemen has been clearing out Al Quada without our help. They now hate us for the drone and Pakistan has had a court hearing that has ruled the US is guilty of war crimes.

And NO this did not happen during Bush. Some drone strikes but not of this magnitude.

Bush's military killed Zarqawi with 500 lb bombs that also killed his wife and kid. Why aren't you accusing Bush of murder?

HA!!! You expose the left's hypocrisy so well. YOUR side did call Bush a baby killer and a war criminal. Now, you got you blood lust up.