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She was put in the position to release the children fro public indoctrination and train to fail centers. I think she will do a good job at that. I just hope in Trumps second term he will keep her and by then she will have enough of the curriculum changed to have returned the schools to Succeed mode and freed the children from liberal rewritten history, and social justice control classes and returned them to real science with choice, real social studies with choice, and real history of the world and this country.
The D.C. program was a success. The students who used the vouchers to go to private schools had a significantly higher graduation rate and were 25% more likely to enroll in college than the students who went to D.C.'s public schools.The voucher plan worked very well in D.C., costing the city less for each student that went private schools than maintaining them in the failed public schools and showing improvement in their test scores. There is simply no basis for claiming any students would be harmed by it. What you don't seem to be able to understand is that this is about helping the childen, not the public school system and not the teachers' unions.Ohh my deepest apologies for not catching my computer auto changing my terms. That must mean I am ignorant and also the cause of failed schools. Smh! That's silly but your entitled to your views. Once again I am for alternatives that will help our schools become more effective and efficient. Read up on this "voucher"/"charter school" system. Research the statistics and the issues surrounding them. This is not the best way for all children. Some will benefit but more will suffer. No one will be on with their children going to "a bad school" so how is everyone going to attend these so called best schools. How will the low income households provide transportation to these schools when every member of the family works, in many cases the student works.You are a teacher but you use the word, purposed when you mean proposed, and again you make a strong argument in favor of the increased options DeVos wants to give to children and their parents.The argument is her purposed system, her qualifications and if she has the ability to still provide a good education to all. Teachers spend everyday with these children. They understand their struggles and persistently attempt to better their students lives, can you say the same about yourself? Since you decided to get personal.You can't imagine why offering children and their parents the opportunity to go to better performing schools benefits the children? If you really can't understand this and you are a public school teacher, that is a very strong argument for providing options DeVos advocates.
If the public schools were serving the needs of all the children rather than just those children who are fortunate enough to live in more upscale neighborhoods, then there would be no need for DeVos' plans, but you and your colleagues have failed the children for as long as records have been kept, and the efforts of the last three presidents have failed to significantly improve the public school system, so it is necessary to provide alternatives to this failed system you are so attached to.
The schools they attended were Catholic parochial schools and the church was taking huge losses in doing so. Were any of those DC public school students allowed to sit in classes with the Obama girls at their swanky private school? Not on your life!
Why can't people just be honest? The model fails to work again and again and again. No putting lipstick on a pig is going to make that hog any prettier. Are there some successes? Yes. Are there enough to justify the ridiculous costs at the expense of public schools? Not a chance.
I am reading a book written by Ron Clark who started a charter middle school in Atlanta. The school is a non-profit and the founder admits he could not run the school without an incredible amount of donations from celebrities such as Oprah Winfrey. What amazes me is how this man has managed to stay out of jail as long as he has. He also freely admits to doing things that would likely have him locked behind bars if he tried some of that crap in public schools.
She was put in the position to release the children fro public indoctrination and train to fail centers. I think she will do a good job at that. I just hope in Trumps second term he will keep her and by then she will have enough of the curriculum changed to have returned the schools to Succeed mode and freed the children from liberal rewritten history, and social justice control classes and returned them to real science with choice, real social studies with choice, and real history of the world and this country.
What makes you think that the federal government has ANYTHING to do with curriculum? They do not!
Most conservatives have been complaining about centralized control of education and want to return to local control. Is that what you really want or not?
No offense, but most non- educators have no clue as to what a curriculum is. Do you know?
.........ie Christopher Columbia was a good guy and not evil.
I find it hard to believe that this lady is equipped to handle this job. She never taught or was part of school administration that would prove that education is difficult and we are going down the wrong path. There are good and unworthy Charter Schools. We cannot go whole hog one one idea and throw out possible solutions that would precipitate answers that would aid in the raising of standards in our schools.
This is a very very rich woman who took it as her particular obligation in life to do what she could to get very poor children a better education than they were getting.
She is not in it for the money; she has all she and subsequent generations could ever need....except that she has given a huge amount of it to further that obligation she has felt called upon to assume.
The problem is that part of the solution she has identified....giving the kids (and their parents) a CHOICE in where they send their kids to school....will hit the Bolsheviks Teachers Unions in the pocketbook....and funny thing is....when it comes to their pocketbook, Bolsheviks are very much like the greediest capitalist in New York and New England.
(By the way, where do you think the Robber Barons came from....whose Greed called forth Unions in the first place?)
Which Greed applies strictly to Private Employee Unions. Their existence is justified.
But the Public Employee Unions, especially the Teachers Unions...simply Suck Off the public tit...through a fraudulent co-conspiracy with the Democratic Party....a conspiracy which ought to have been busted up a long time ago...and maybe this lady will finally do it.
Naturally, the Democrats are raising Hell. They are paid a fortune to raise Hell by the Public Employee Unions, who are funded by us Taxpayers.
What's going to drive this country into some sort of disaster...its tough now to tell how bad...but its going to be a combination of an almost illiterate public, educated by lazy Bolsheviks, and the Liars in the Media who have abandoned all pretense of impartiality and openly joined the Bolshevik side.
Ugly times at hand.
______
I can't wait until she gets started dismantling your fascist democrat reich....This is a very very rich woman who took it as her particular obligation in life to do what she could to get very poor children a better education than they were getting.
She is not in it for the money; she has all she and subsequent generations could ever need....except that she has given a huge amount of it to further that obligation she has felt called upon to assume.
The problem is that part of the solution she has identified....giving the kids (and their parents) a CHOICE in where they send their kids to school....will hit the Bolsheviks Teachers Unions in the pocketbook....and funny thing is....when it comes to their pocketbook, Bolsheviks are very much like the greediest capitalist in New York and New England.
(By the way, where do you think the Robber Barons came from....whose Greed called forth Unions in the first place?)
Which Greed applies strictly to Private Employee Unions. Their existence is justified.
But the Public Employee Unions, especially the Teachers Unions...simply Suck Off the public tit...through a fraudulent co-conspiracy with the Democratic Party....a conspiracy which ought to have been busted up a long time ago...and maybe this lady will finally do it.
Naturally, the Democrats are raising Hell. They are paid a fortune to raise Hell by the Public Employee Unions, who are funded by us Taxpayers.
What's going to drive this country into some sort of disaster...its tough now to tell how bad...but its going to be a combination of an almost illiterate public, educated by lazy Bolsheviks, and the Liars in the Media who have abandoned all pretense of impartiality and openly joined the Bolshevik side.
Ugly times at hand.
______
Simply put that is bullshit...
A sobering look at what Betsy DeVos did to education in Michigan — and what she might do as secretary of education
Does she have an education degree? How many years has she spent teaching? How much coaching has she done?
Oh, but she believes in all charter schools! Quite a resume, don't you think?Does she have an education degree? How many years has she spent teaching? How much coaching has she done?
This is a very very rich woman who took it as her particular obligation in life to do what she could to get very poor children a better education than they were getting.
She is not in it for the money; she has all she and subsequent generations could ever need....except that she has given a huge amount of it to further that obligation she has felt called upon to assume.
The problem is that part of the solution she has identified....giving the kids (and their parents) a CHOICE in where they send their kids to school....will hit the Bolsheviks Teachers Unions in the pocketbook....and funny thing is....when it comes to their pocketbook, Bolsheviks are very much like the greediest capitalist in New York and New England.
(By the way, where do you think the Robber Barons came from....whose Greed called forth Unions in the first place?)
Which Greed applies strictly to Private Employee Unions. Their existence is justified.
But the Public Employee Unions, especially the Teachers Unions...simply Suck Off the public tit...through a fraudulent co-conspiracy with the Democratic Party....a conspiracy which ought to have been busted up a long time ago...and maybe this lady will finally do it.
Naturally, the Democrats are raising Hell. They are paid a fortune to raise Hell by the Public Employee Unions, who are funded by us Taxpayers.
What's going to drive this country into some sort of disaster...its tough now to tell how bad...but its going to be a combination of an almost illiterate public, educated by lazy Bolsheviks, and the Liars in the Media who have abandoned all pretense of impartiality and openly joined the Bolshevik side.
Ugly times at hand.
______
Your anti-union barrage of bullshit is off topic.
This is a very very rich woman who took it as her particular obligation in life to do what she could to get very poor children a better education than they were getting.
She is not in it for the money; she has all she and subsequent generations could ever need....except that she has given a huge amount of it to further that obligation she has felt called upon to assume.
The problem is that part of the solution she has identified....giving the kids (and their parents) a CHOICE in where they send their kids to school....will hit the Bolsheviks Teachers Unions in the pocketbook....and funny thing is....when it comes to their pocketbook, Bolsheviks are very much like the greediest capitalist in New York and New England.
(By the way, where do you think the Robber Barons came from....whose Greed called forth Unions in the first place?)
Which Greed applies strictly to Private Employee Unions. Their existence is justified.
But the Public Employee Unions, especially the Teachers Unions...simply Suck Off the public tit...through a fraudulent co-conspiracy with the Democratic Party....a conspiracy which ought to have been busted up a long time ago...and maybe this lady will finally do it.
Naturally, the Democrats are raising Hell. They are paid a fortune to raise Hell by the Public Employee Unions, who are funded by us Taxpayers.
What's going to drive this country into some sort of disaster...its tough now to tell how bad...but its going to be a combination of an almost illiterate public, educated by lazy Bolsheviks, and the Liars in the Media who have abandoned all pretense of impartiality and openly joined the Bolshevik side.
Ugly times at hand.
______
Simply put that is bullshit...
A sobering look at what Betsy DeVos did to education in Michigan — and what she might do as secretary of education
You believe teachers are being selfish? Who becomes a teacher for selfish reasons? It is one of the most time demanding and stressful professions there are. I can't believe people agree with you also. However, I digress...How does she know what will best serve All children? Please provide me with evidence of any kind.Public school teachers, with a few exceptions, are only interested in what best serves their interests and DeVos is interested in what best serves the interests of the children, so naturally, "educators" are opposed to her.As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.
I hear pretty much the same. I'm always struck by the difference of what I hear from inner city teachers versus those in more affluent systems. They seem to agree that it isn't about money, it's about parenting. A friends wife taught in a rough part of Cleveland for 20+ years. She speaks of the changes over her years. One of her last classes, she's now retired, had 26 kids, 21 from single parent homes. That was when she said she'd had enough and retired the next year. According to her you can't teach these kids, period. Those in more affluent areas adore their kids and love their jobs.If she has a few years of teaching experience yes. Otherwise no. That should be a requirement. Go in, give up a good salary, and teach tnbe slowest of the slow and behaviorally disabled for a free years. Until then, you are clueless. But this is no different than any other administration. Unless you have been in the trenches you have no clue. My wife was and my daughter is. Let's just say the american families are dysfunctional....
Single parents......they are the cause of almost all of the social ills we suffer from. Single, teenage mothers, generation after generation are not capable of teaching young males how to be adult men.......our violence and our education problems could be solved for the most part by fixing that issue alone.
If you want my personal opinion... I feel tenure should be re-evaluated. Teachers are always getting more education, however at the same time not staying up to date with the technology children are becoming experts in. The social and educational implications to wide spread internet access is immense. It should not be taken for granted. Students should always come first. They are and always will be our future.Your anti-union barrage of bullshit is off topic.
He defined liberals and their teacher unions as Bolsheviks, that's complimentary and a quite obvious understatement, sweet really.
So when I was a member of a teacher's union I was a liberal and a Bolshevik?
He obviously doesn't know anything.
Eh, my 4 children that were educated and raised in California and actually had some pretty great teachers, politics unknown .. as it should be in my opinion. Just wondering, have you ran across teachers that were protected by tenure but basically sucked as educators and how did you feel about that in regards to the students?
Tenure is one of the most misunderstood terms ever used on these forums.
Last year I finished my fourth year of teaching at my school. I was given a satisfactory evaluation by my administrator and was told my principal wanted to see me. I walked next door to his office and was told that my contract would not be renewed for the next year because that would have given me tenure. I was let go with not even a "Thank you! Get the hell out!" They even expected me to finish the rest of the year with a cheery attitude and work like a dog to get my students to pass. Even a hearty "F U" would have been nicer.
As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.
It sounds like you have issues with unions. Despite what you may believe this post (at least) is not about unions. It's obvious credentials don't matter to her supporters, I feel that point is mute.So....running a school requires an education degree? Really? That is all you have? Have you seen these inner city hell holes these children are condemned to attend.......all of those people have the education degrees you want....has that helped save these children?
However, I also have children. I want the schools closest to me to be the best they can be. Not only for my children but for the community they will grow up in. Schools do more for society than filter money and teach kids their ABCs. They are a social stimulus that keeps communities and ultimately society with an entertainment outlet, networking opportunity and thus deters crime, keeps children fed... Etc etc
No....you are limiting credentials very narrowly. You think an education degree is necessary to run a federal organization....when we show you over and over that people with education degrees, and advanced degrees from Masters degrees to Ph.Ds in Education are just as capable of destroying a cities education system.........the inner city schools that cannot keep children safe, let alone educate them in math and reading...are all run by the very people you think are superior to Betsy DeVos....so it is obvious credentials in education don't correlate to success at educating children.
Betsy DeVos has devoted her life to helping poor children get an education......she has put her money where her beliefs are and has put her time where her beliefs are.....
Schools in our inner cities are doing none of the things you say that schools do...they are dangerous and are not educating children.
Why don't you support allowing parents to control where they send their kids to school....? That is the obvious way to get everything you say you want out of a school......parents who send their kids to good schools one or two towns over, or to a new, non public school that gets started because of vouchers will be just as committed to the opportunities you say you want...and the side benefit...their children will be safe from gang violence and will actually be educated......
So what are you doing to fix that by running away from the problem and leaving those who cannot run to stay there with fewer resources?
It's not running....those schools will actually have to improve...instead of staying hell holes. And if they can't compete and get better, actually educating children....new schools will open and schools designed to take care of problem kids.....so it is actually fixing the problem and helping kids...instead of warehousing them and using them to get union dues for democrats.
The whole concept is that parents will have control over the money and where they send their kids....not border lines and bureaucrats...
Do you want your kids in a school with gangs and drugs? Why should you be stuck there simply because you live in that school border....? Why should you surrender the money designated for your kid simply because you want to send them to a school that actually teaches them? Why does your child get to be sacrificed on the alter of another kids horrible parents?
Is it fair to the good kid, the kid who studies, and engages with the school community to be in the same school as the kids selling drugs and shooting each other in drive bys?
Is keeping a good kid in the same school as the bad kid getting the problems facing the bad kid resolved?
If you strip away the funds, strip away the teachers and crowd up the remainder of the students into fewer classrooms, how on God's green Earth do you think things will improve?
Most people have no clue as to the costs associated with running a public school. Very few people do, and the vast majority of them are educators. You likely do not.
The walls of the school don't teach the kids, but there has to be some to hold up the roof. Someone has to pay for the heat and AC, water, sewage and general upkeep and maintenance.
Those are called fixed costs and if 100 kids are there instead of 200, the bills are not that much smaller. THAT is the problem.
If you read what she has said her only goal is to support christian schools, nothing wrong with christian schools, but most of our children go to public schools her goal, turn public schools into christen schools. Great if that's what you want. we are fighting ISS about one way thinking? her views look like one way thinking. looking at her answers at the hearings she is not qualified.
The argument is her purposed system, her qualifications and if she has the ability to still provide a good education to all. Teachers spend everyday with these children. They understand their struggles and persistently attempt to better their students lives, can you say the same about yourself? Since you decided to get personal.You can't imagine why offering children and their parents the opportunity to go to better performing schools benefits the children? If you really can't understand this and you are a public school teacher, that is a very strong argument for providing options DeVos advocates.You believe teachers are being selfish? Who becomes a teacher for selfish reasons? It is one of the most time demanding and stressful professions there are. I can't believe people agree with you also. However, I digress...How does she know what will best serve All children? Please provide me with evidence of any kind.Public school teachers, with a few exceptions, are only interested in what best serves their interests and DeVos is interested in what best serves the interests of the children, so naturally, "educators" are opposed to her.As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.
Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?
I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.
Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?
I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.
The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.
Choose schools?
I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?
The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.
Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?
You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?
Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....
If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.
There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.
Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?
In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.
How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.
Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.
You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.
People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.
The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.
In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.
Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?
How much of that $11,500 never sees the classroom?
Then there are costs most people do not consider. The smart board system in my classroom runs about $1700 BEFORE you pay for the projector, computer and all of the other systems to make it work.
Books? What are those? We don't use textbooks anymore.
What old equipment?
Your ideas on school buildings are ridiculous and have no basis in reality. We just tore down half of our school and are occupying the other half because we cannot afford the land and expense of all the football, baseball, softball, and tennis facilities. We are refurbishing the gym vice replacing it to save money. Out "teacher's lounge" has two chairs and no desks for us to work at. My planning period is spent at my rolling desk in a hallway. Most schools in this country are ancient. That price you quoted has a lot of that going into upkeep, repair, or replacement of schools. In our county, most of the schools were built in the 1940s and 50s. We have 5 K-8 schools because they are cheaper than building a middle school and the ensuing transportation problems.
The voucher plan worked very well in D.C., costing the city less for each student that went private schools than maintaining them in the failed public schools and showing improvement in their test scores. There is simply no basis for claiming any students would be harmed by it. What you don't seem to be able to understand is that this is about helping the childen, not the public school system and not the teachers' unions.Ohh my deepest apologies for not catching my computer auto changing my terms. That must mean I am ignorant and also the cause of failed schools. Smh! That's silly but your entitled to your views. Once again I am for alternatives that will help our schools become more effective and efficient. Read up on this "voucher"/"charter school" system. Research the statistics and the issues surrounding them. This is not the best way for all children. Some will benefit but more will suffer. No one will be on with their children going to "a bad school" so how is everyone going to attend these so called best schools. How will the low income households provide transportation to these schools when every member of the family works, in many cases the student works.You are a teacher but you use the word, purposed when you mean proposed, and again you make a strong argument in favor of the increased options DeVos wants to give to children and their parents.The argument is her purposed system, her qualifications and if she has the ability to still provide a good education to all. Teachers spend everyday with these children. They understand their struggles and persistently attempt to better their students lives, can you say the same about yourself? Since you decided to get personal.You can't imagine why offering children and their parents the opportunity to go to better performing schools benefits the children? If you really can't understand this and you are a public school teacher, that is a very strong argument for providing options DeVos advocates.
If the public schools were serving the needs of all the children rather than just those children who are fortunate enough to live in more upscale neighborhoods, then there would be no need for DeVos' plans, but you and your colleagues have failed the children for as long as records have been kept, and the efforts of the last three presidents have failed to significantly improve the public school system, so it is necessary to provide alternatives to this failed system you are so attached to.
The schools they attended were Catholic parochial schools and the church was taking huge losses in doing so. Were any of those DC public school students allowed to sit in classes with the Obama girls at their swanky private school? Not on your life!
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