Educators for DeVos??

[ForCommonGood]

As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.

Public school teachers, with a few exceptions, are only interested in what best serves their interests and DeVos is interested in what best serves the interests of the children, so naturally, "educators" are opposed to her.

You believe teachers are being selfish? Who becomes a teacher for selfish reasons? It is one of the most time demanding and stressful professions there are. I can't believe people agree with you also. However, I digress...How does she know what will best serve All children? Please provide me with evidence of any kind.

You can't imagine why offering children and their parents the opportunity to go to better performing schools benefits the children? If you really can't understand this and you are a public school teacher, that is a very strong argument for providing options DeVos advocates.

The argument is her purposed system, her qualifications and if she has the ability to still provide a good education to all. Teachers spend everyday with these children. They understand their struggles and persistently attempt to better their students lives, can you say the same about yourself? Since you decided to get personal.

You are a teacher but you use the word, purposed when you mean proposed, and again you make a strong argument in favor of the increased options DeVos wants to give to children and their parents.

If the public schools were serving the needs of all the children rather than just those children who are fortunate enough to live in more upscale neighborhoods, then there would be no need for DeVos' plans, but you and your colleagues have failed the children for as long as records have been kept, and the efforts of the last three presidents have failed to significantly improve the public school system, so it is necessary to provide alternatives to this failed system you are so attached to.

Ohh my deepest apologies for not catching my computer auto changing my terms. That must mean I am ignorant and also the cause of failed schools. Smh! That's silly but your entitled to your views. Once again I am for alternatives that will help our schools become more effective and efficient. Read up on this "voucher"/"charter school" system. Research the statistics and the issues surrounding them. This is not the best way for all children. Some will benefit but more will suffer. No one will be on with their children going to "a bad school" so how is everyone going to attend these so called best schools. How will the low income households provide transportation to these schools when every member of the family works, in many cases the student works.

 

[Lumpy 1]

I don't get why public school teachers are so afraid of charter schools and such.

They offer new employment opportunities, they get paid on merit and they don't have to be force represented by political leadership they disagree with. Besides .. competition breeds excellence.

Here's what you will get:

1) New opportunities at much lower pay.

2) Longer work hours.

3) Even more responsibilities for supervising kids during non-instructional time.

4) The ability to be fired because your boss didn't get laid the night before.

There is no such thing as competition when the playing field is not level. Let me choose my students and I'll get them all into an Ivy League school.

All that sounds great until reality sets in.

Sorry.....you don't understand.......if a school sucks because the guy in charge is firing teachers on a whim....no one is going to go to that school...and the parents will take their money/voucher to a better school.....their will be an incentive to actually have the best teachers and to get rid of bad teachers.......

What do you have now? Teachers who want to be teachers are leaving the profession after 2 years...because they can't teach kids.........bad teachers, who can't teach kids last 30 years because of the union.....30 years of destroying lives.......and they can't be fired.....

Vouchers fix that.....parents will choose the schools......and even bad students will have a chance....because schools that care about them will open and educate them because they can now do it.......

Reality....really? The hell holes in these inner cities? They aren't the reality, right now? And yet you think parents who wait in lines of a thousand people for a few hundred spots in Charter Schools won't do right by their children with those vouchers? Really?

Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?

I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.

Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?

I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.

The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.

Choose schools?

I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?

The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts

 

[ForCommonGood]

Here's what you will get:

1) New opportunities at much lower pay.

2) Longer work hours.

3) Even more responsibilities for supervising kids during non-instructional time.

4) The ability to be fired because your boss didn't get laid the night before.

There is no such thing as competition when the playing field is not level. Let me choose my students and I'll get them all into an Ivy League school.

All that sounds great until reality sets in.

Sorry.....you don't understand.......if a school sucks because the guy in charge is firing teachers on a whim....no one is going to go to that school...and the parents will take their money/voucher to a better school.....their will be an incentive to actually have the best teachers and to get rid of bad teachers.......

What do you have now? Teachers who want to be teachers are leaving the profession after 2 years...because they can't teach kids.........bad teachers, who can't teach kids last 30 years because of the union.....30 years of destroying lives.......and they can't be fired.....

Vouchers fix that.....parents will choose the schools......and even bad students will have a chance....because schools that care about them will open and educate them because they can now do it.......

Reality....really? The hell holes in these inner cities? They aren't the reality, right now? And yet you think parents who wait in lines of a thousand people for a few hundred spots in Charter Schools won't do right by their children with those vouchers? Really?

Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?

I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.

Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?

I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.

The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.

Choose schools?

I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?

The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?

 

[Never3ndr]

I think that the core issue with our education system is that we realize that it doesn't provide as good of an education to our children as we would like it to. So, people from both sides of the aisle are scrambling to put forth plans about how they plan to fix the system when the reality is...nobody truly knows how. At its core, providing a good education to students requires an educated and motivated teacher work-force...which we simply don't have...and we cannot really get as dumping more cash into their salaries isn't necessarily going to motivate them if they don't already have a passion to teach (although it may prevent some of the better ones from turning over).

On DeVos, the real reason for her appointment is simply that she was a large donor to the Republican party and does business pertaining to education. You can look for valid reasons otherwise, but regardless of constructed rationale, you cannot escape the truth of the matter.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Sorry.....you don't understand.......if a school sucks because the guy in charge is firing teachers on a whim....no one is going to go to that school...and the parents will take their money/voucher to a better school.....their will be an incentive to actually have the best teachers and to get rid of bad teachers.......

What do you have now? Teachers who want to be teachers are leaving the profession after 2 years...because they can't teach kids.........bad teachers, who can't teach kids last 30 years because of the union.....30 years of destroying lives.......and they can't be fired.....

Vouchers fix that.....parents will choose the schools......and even bad students will have a chance....because schools that care about them will open and educate them because they can now do it.......

Reality....really? The hell holes in these inner cities? They aren't the reality, right now? And yet you think parents who wait in lines of a thousand people for a few hundred spots in Charter Schools won't do right by their children with those vouchers? Really?

Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?

I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.

Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?

I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.

The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.

Choose schools?

I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?

The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?

What ? ....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sorry.....you don't understand.......if a school sucks because the guy in charge is firing teachers on a whim....no one is going to go to that school...and the parents will take their money/voucher to a better school.....their will be an incentive to actually have the best teachers and to get rid of bad teachers.......

What do you have now? Teachers who want to be teachers are leaving the profession after 2 years...because they can't teach kids.........bad teachers, who can't teach kids last 30 years because of the union.....30 years of destroying lives.......and they can't be fired.....

Vouchers fix that.....parents will choose the schools......and even bad students will have a chance....because schools that care about them will open and educate them because they can now do it.......

Reality....really? The hell holes in these inner cities? They aren't the reality, right now? And yet you think parents who wait in lines of a thousand people for a few hundred spots in Charter Schools won't do right by their children with those vouchers? Really?

Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?

I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.

Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?

I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.

The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.

Choose schools?

I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?

The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?

How much of that $11,500 never sees the classroom?

Then there are costs most people do not consider. The smart board system in my classroom runs about $1700 BEFORE you pay for the projector, computer and all of the other systems to make it work.

Books? What are those? We don't use textbooks anymore.

What old equipment?

Your ideas on school buildings are ridiculous and have no basis in reality. We just tore down half of our school and are occupying the other half because we cannot afford the land and expense of all the football, baseball, softball, and tennis facilities. We are refurbishing the gym vice replacing it to save money. Out "teacher's lounge" has two chairs and no desks for us to work at. My planning period is spent at my rolling desk in a hallway. Most schools in this country are ancient. That price you quoted has a lot of that going into upkeep, repair, or replacement of schools. In our county, most of the schools were built in the 1940s and 50s. We have 5 K-8 schools because they are cheaper than building a middle school and the ensuing transportation problems.

 

[Unkotare]

I think that the core issue with our education system is that we realize that it doesn't provide as good of an education to our children as we would like it to. So, people from both sides of the aisle are scrambling to put forth plans about how they plan to fix the system when the reality is...nobody truly knows how. At its core, providing a good education to students requires an educated and motivated teacher work-force...which we simply don't have....

We don't?

???

 

[toomuchtime_]

Public school teachers, with a few exceptions, are only interested in what best serves their interests and DeVos is interested in what best serves the interests of the children, so naturally, "educators" are opposed to her.

You believe teachers are being selfish? Who becomes a teacher for selfish reasons? It is one of the most time demanding and stressful professions there are. I can't believe people agree with you also. However, I digress...How does she know what will best serve All children? Please provide me with evidence of any kind.

You can't imagine why offering children and their parents the opportunity to go to better performing schools benefits the children? If you really can't understand this and you are a public school teacher, that is a very strong argument for providing options DeVos advocates.

The argument is her purposed system, her qualifications and if she has the ability to still provide a good education to all. Teachers spend everyday with these children. They understand their struggles and persistently attempt to better their students lives, can you say the same about yourself? Since you decided to get personal.

You are a teacher but you use the word, purposed when you mean proposed, and again you make a strong argument in favor of the increased options DeVos wants to give to children and their parents.

If the public schools were serving the needs of all the children rather than just those children who are fortunate enough to live in more upscale neighborhoods, then there would be no need for DeVos' plans, but you and your colleagues have failed the children for as long as records have been kept, and the efforts of the last three presidents have failed to significantly improve the public school system, so it is necessary to provide alternatives to this failed system you are so attached to.

Ohh my deepest apologies for not catching my computer auto changing my terms. That must mean I am ignorant and also the cause of failed schools. Smh! That's silly but your entitled to your views. Once again I am for alternatives that will help our schools become more effective and efficient. Read up on this "voucher"/"charter school" system. Research the statistics and the issues surrounding them. This is not the best way for all children. Some will benefit but more will suffer. No one will be on with their children going to "a bad school" so how is everyone going to attend these so called best schools. How will the low income households provide transportation to these schools when every member of the family works, in many cases the student works.

The voucher plan worked very well in D.C., costing the city less for each student that went private schools than maintaining them in the failed public schools and showing improvement in their test scores. There is simply no basis for claiming any students would be harmed by it. What you don't seem to be able to understand is that this is about helping the childen, not the public school system and not the teachers' unions.

 

[Never3ndr]

I think that the core issue with our education system is that we realize that it doesn't provide as good of an education to our children as we would like it to. So, people from both sides of the aisle are scrambling to put forth plans about how they plan to fix the system when the reality is...nobody truly knows how. At its core, providing a good education to students requires an educated and motivated teacher work-force...which we simply don't have....

We don't?

???

I would say that we have educated and motivated individuals within that work force...but I would not say that the general workforce could be classified as educated and motivated...no. Maybe that is just my experience with them...I do live in a state that is near the bottom as far as performance is concerned in America.

 

[jasonnfree]

Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?

I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.

Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?

I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.

The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.

Choose schools?

I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?

The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?

How much of that $11,500 never sees the classroom?

Then there are costs most people do not consider. The smart board system in my classroom runs about $1700 BEFORE you pay for the projector, computer and all of the other systems to make it work.

Books? What are those? We don't use textbooks anymore.

What old equipment?

Your ideas on school buildings are ridiculous and have no basis in reality. We just tore down half of our school and are occupying the other half because we cannot afford the land and expense of all the football, baseball, softball, and tennis facilities. We are refurbishing the gym vice replacing it to save money. Out "teacher's lounge" has two chairs and no desks for us to work at. My planning period is spent at my rolling desk in a hallway. Most schools in this country are ancient. That price you quoted has a lot of that going into upkeep, repair, or replacement of schools. In our county, most of the schools were built in the 1940s and 50s. We have 5 K-8 schools because they are cheaper than building a middle school and the ensuing transportation problems.

No textbooks surprised me. What if a kid wants to get ahead of the subject matter on the weekend? My 7th grade Grandchild, who lives with me, wanted to get ahead on subject matter on the weekends but the school just gives print outs, and we can't get the following week's print outs.

 

[Disir]

As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.

DeVos is not a good choice. I have as of yet to hear from anyone about John King or Arne Duncan. All three are on the same path and not a peep for the other two. So, it boggles the mind why you care now.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You believe teachers are being selfish? Who becomes a teacher for selfish reasons? It is one of the most time demanding and stressful professions there are. I can't believe people agree with you also. However, I digress...How does she know what will best serve All children? Please provide me with evidence of any kind.

You can't imagine why offering children and their parents the opportunity to go to better performing schools benefits the children? If you really can't understand this and you are a public school teacher, that is a very strong argument for providing options DeVos advocates.

The argument is her purposed system, her qualifications and if she has the ability to still provide a good education to all. Teachers spend everyday with these children. They understand their struggles and persistently attempt to better their students lives, can you say the same about yourself? Since you decided to get personal.

You are a teacher but you use the word, purposed when you mean proposed, and again you make a strong argument in favor of the increased options DeVos wants to give to children and their parents.

If the public schools were serving the needs of all the children rather than just those children who are fortunate enough to live in more upscale neighborhoods, then there would be no need for DeVos' plans, but you and your colleagues have failed the children for as long as records have been kept, and the efforts of the last three presidents have failed to significantly improve the public school system, so it is necessary to provide alternatives to this failed system you are so attached to.

Ohh my deepest apologies for not catching my computer auto changing my terms. That must mean I am ignorant and also the cause of failed schools. Smh! That's silly but your entitled to your views. Once again I am for alternatives that will help our schools become more effective and efficient. Read up on this "voucher"/"charter school" system. Research the statistics and the issues surrounding them. This is not the best way for all children. Some will benefit but more will suffer. No one will be on with their children going to "a bad school" so how is everyone going to attend these so called best schools. How will the low income households provide transportation to these schools when every member of the family works, in many cases the student works.

The voucher plan worked very well in D.C., costing the city less for each student that went private schools than maintaining them in the failed public schools and showing improvement in their test scores. There is simply no basis for claiming any students would be harmed by it. What you don't seem to be able to understand is that this is about helping the childen, not the public school system and not the teachers' unions.

The schools they attended were Catholic parochial schools and the church was taking huge losses in doing so. Were any of those DC public school students allowed to sit in classes with the Obama girls at their swanky private school? Not on your life!

Why can't people just be honest? The model fails to work again and again and again. No putting lipstick on a pig is going to make that hog any prettier. Are there some successes? Yes. Are there enough to justify the ridiculous costs at the expense of public schools? Not a chance.

I am reading a book written by Ron Clark who started a charter middle school in Atlanta. The school is a non-profit and the founder admits he could not run the school without an incredible amount of donations from celebrities such as Oprah Winfrey. What amazes me is how this man has managed to stay out of jail as long as he has. He also freely admits to doing things that would likely have him locked behind bars if he tried some of that crap in public schools.

 

[Unkotare]

I think that the core issue with our education system is that we realize that it doesn't provide as good of an education to our children as we would like it to. So, people from both sides of the aisle are scrambling to put forth plans about how they plan to fix the system when the reality is...nobody truly knows how. At its core, providing a good education to students requires an educated and motivated teacher work-force...which we simply don't have....

We don't?

???

I would say that we have educated and motivated individuals within that work force...but I would not say that the general workforce could be classified as educated and motivated...no. Maybe that is just my experience with them...I do live in a state that is near the bottom as far as performance is concerned in America.

What experience?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?

How much of that $11,500 never sees the classroom?

Then there are costs most people do not consider. The smart board system in my classroom runs about $1700 BEFORE you pay for the projector, computer and all of the other systems to make it work.

Books? What are those? We don't use textbooks anymore.

What old equipment?

Your ideas on school buildings are ridiculous and have no basis in reality. We just tore down half of our school and are occupying the other half because we cannot afford the land and expense of all the football, baseball, softball, and tennis facilities. We are refurbishing the gym vice replacing it to save money. Out "teacher's lounge" has two chairs and no desks for us to work at. My planning period is spent at my rolling desk in a hallway. Most schools in this country are ancient. That price you quoted has a lot of that going into upkeep, repair, or replacement of schools. In our county, most of the schools were built in the 1940s and 50s. We have 5 K-8 schools because they are cheaper than building a middle school and the ensuing transportation problems.

No textbooks surprised me. What if a kid wants to get ahead of the subject matter on the weekend? My 7th grade Grandchild, who lives with me, wanted to get ahead on subject matter on the weekends but the school just gives print outs, and we can't get the following week's print outs.

Textbooks are expensive. Imagine a student taking 6 classes and the textbooks costing $40.00 each, and that price is very low for some classes. The class I teach would cost about $95.00 per student.

 

[ForCommonGood]

Uh, how with the parents know the principal is firing teachers on a whim?

I wish one of you keyboard commandos would tell me what constitutes a bad teacher in your eyes. I have been an educator for over 20 years and I have run across a number that I can count on one hand.

Without being in a school on a daily basis, what gives you the right to decide who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher?

I have parents that think the sun rises and sets in my ass, and I have some that would throw me an anchor if they thought I was drowning.

The absolute bullshit about teachers not being fired is one of the most ridiculous old wive's takes that you education haters like to throw up. The problem is that good teachers get fired or do not get tenure because of people with attitudes like yours.

Choose schools?

I chose every school my children attended. I spent the extra money to buy a house or rent in a district with a good school. Why can't everyone else do what I have done successfully for my three children who are now adults?

The answer is laziness and the inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Seriously? What is the graduation rate of Chicago public schools? Balitmore? D.C......?

You spent the extra money to buy or rent a house in a good school district...nice for you.......how about the kids who don't have your resources and are currently stuck in a hell hole school....and you talk about leaving the bad kids behind...how about helping the good kids escape....?

Good teachers are leaving the profession after 2-3 years......bad teachers stay because they are protected....and if you are a good teacher...vouchers will increase your pay....you will have value..since you can actually teach kids.....

If you have been in education for 20 years.....it is no wonder you don't understand competition........and how it will save the lives of children.

There are no good kids in those schools. We had vouchers in Florida until someone bothered to read the state Constitution.

Even if vouchers are available, where do they go?

In Jacksonville, we had several very good private schools. A $4000 voucher sounds great until you realize that the tuition was over three times that much at the cheaper schools. Every school has a waiting list so long, no one could have gotten in anyway. The Catholic Archdiocese decided to build another high school west of the city, but it took about 5 years to build and the waiting list wasn't even dented by the students who enrolled there.

How will vouchers increase my pay? That's hilarious! I already get paid crappy wages. Private schools pay less. They cannot charge more than they do now if they are taking a loss on tuition by accepting vouchers.

Pulling students from my school reduces the need for my services. I worked for a Department of Defense school for a year and my position was eliminated because they tore down so much base housing that there were not enough students. I found a job in the county nearby, but the next year budget cuts across the district forced me to teach in one of the inner city hell holes that you have never even visited much less worked in, plus I had a two hour commute each day.

You may find it easy to dismiss my expertise in this area, but I have lived it, worked it, and seen the bad and the good in every aspect.

People like Betsy Devos and most politicians, and unfortunately people like you do not even begin to understand the problem and how to fix it.

The cost per student per year in public schooling looks like around $11,500.00 according to the link.

In a class of 30 that's $345,000.00 per year, perhaps you should open your own charter school and demand equal treatment voucher/cost per student wise or be a super hero and save the taxpayers some bucks.

Fast Facts[/Q
How can we save money and improve education for all? My thoughts include ...Cutting the fat so selling old equipment, books etc. Maintaining or renovate current buildings that are habitable and move to already developed property instead of building new schools for those that are not. Every school should be somewhat self sustaining, meaning providing products and services for the community they are in which will create revenue and fill societal needs. Putting high school students that are interested in trade into apprenticeships early so they are providing, learning, earning their education in a way and gaining experience so they are immediately employable after graduation. Just some thoughts...
What are yours?

How much of that $11,500 never sees the classroom?

Then there are costs most people do not consider. The smart board system in my classroom runs about $1700 BEFORE you pay for the projector, computer and all of the other systems to make it work.

Books? What are those? We don't use textbooks anymore.

What old equipment?

Your ideas on school buildings are ridiculous and have no basis in reality. We just tore down half of our school and are occupying the other half because we cannot afford the land and expense of all the football, baseball, softball, and tennis facilities. We are refurbishing the gym vice replacing it to save money. Out "teacher's lounge" has two chairs and no desks for us to work at. My planning period is spent at my rolling desk in a hallway. Most schools in this country are ancient. That price you quoted has a lot of that going into upkeep, repair, or replacement of schools. In our county, most of the schools were built in the 1940s and 50s. We have 5 K-8 schools because they are cheaper than building a middle school and the ensuing transportation problems.

I agree there are serious money issues. I have been to every school in my district multiple times this school year. Some are brand new and bankrupt, but most are decrepit. My ideas which is all they are...You may not agree or find them ignorant but Since no one is throwing out ideas just problems I thought i would try and swing the pendulum the other way.
To utilize buildings in communities that are already built. And move those schools there instead of building multi-tasking dollar school buildings. The plan has issues but in my county for example there is a ton of unused space.
As far as equipment goes I mean old stuff that sits in the boiler room and sheds. Not a lot of revenue there but I have seen lots of useless storage.
Also every classroom I have been in in the last 10 years has had textbooks. Some being utilized, others not.
I am not saying schools don't deserve better funding and oversight. I believe though we have to be the change we expect and it's all our responsibility to find solutions to our issues. Maybe my ideas are not up to par with what you see in your schools. That is why discussions and collaboration are necessary.

 

[ForCommonGood]

As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.

DeVos is not a good choice. I have as of yet to hear from anyone about John King or Arne Duncan. All three are on the same path and not a peep for the other two. So, it boggles the mind why you care now.

They are not in charge now. You have no reason to pressume I didn't care during their stay in office.

 

[12icer]

She was put in the position to release the children fro public indoctrination and train to fail centers. I think she will do a good job at that. I just hope in Trumps second term he will keep her and by then she will have enough of the curriculum changed to have returned the schools to Succeed mode and freed the children from liberal rewritten history, and social justice control classes and returned them to real science with choice, real social studies with choice, and real history of the world and this country.

 

[Disir]

As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.

DeVos is not a good choice. I have as of yet to hear from anyone about John King or Arne Duncan. All three are on the same path and not a peep for the other two. So, it boggles the mind why you care now.

They are not in charge now. You have no reason to pressume I didn't care during their stay in office.

Try again.

It no longer boggles the mind. It appears to be quite clear.

 

[jasonnfree]

She was put in the position to release the children fro public indoctrination and train to fail centers. I think she will do a good job at that. I just hope in Trumps second term he will keep her and by then she will have enough of the curriculum changed to have returned the schools to Succeed mode and freed the children from liberal rewritten history, and social justice control classes and returned them to real science with choice, real social studies with choice, and real history of the world and this country.

If she's a newcomer to education, what makes us think she can turn things around, or even knows what things to turn around to begin with? That's what the thread is mostly about. Glad Trump hasn't picked any amateurs for the military positions.

 

[Lumpy 1]

As an educator I have yet to hear any valid argument (based on facts or science) that DeVos is a good choice. Any teachers out there pro- DeVos? Please tell me why.

DeVos is not a good choice. I have as of yet to hear from anyone about John King or Arne Duncan. All three are on the same path and not a peep for the other two. So, it boggles the mind why you care now.

They are not in charge now. You have no reason to pressume I didn't care during their stay in office.

ForCommonGood, think of the USMB as a bag of angry cats and setting rules of engagement unlikely.

btw. spell check is a reliable tool.