Electioneering

[AyeCantSeeYou]

if i did i don't remember that. but any way. we need a better turnover, we need fresher ideas and we need to break a good old boys strangle hold. the problem is legislators legislate for them selves. there is no control. and we need to take steps to make every voters vote count. today, it definitely doesn't

Very true - the good ol' boys' club isn't working today, not like it did yesterday either. Politicians will continue to get things done that benefit them personally, and will continue to stonewall the things that they have no personal use for. I say vote every damn one of them out of office - not one needs to stay in as it is right now. A group of toddlers can get more done than the ones we have now. If you were to ask them to build a tower out of blocks, the politicians would bitch, argue, and throw hissy fits over how to do it and who goes first; the toddlers would build it and get it done while having fun.

you or i could not be elected and be able to make an impact in congress no matter how hard we tried. we could go in ther with 100% good intent and we would be shut down cold. I mean look at some of the politicians who have tried to take an independent stance. Lieberman, kicked out of the party by the democrats. Ron paul, labeled a fanatic by the republicans. and that comes from powerbases built up over time. you go into a situation where there is a protocol. and you do not deviate from that. that dynamic has to be destroyed. and a way to break it is to keep people rotating out.

And it needs to start by throwing out every politician in office today and starting new with people that have never held office before. No lobbyists, corporate spokesmen, etc. It used to be that being a public servant wouldn't make anyone wealthy; nowadays, money is the reason most go into politics. Those that were elected or volunteered in days past actually wanted to do good for others and not just for themselves; money wasn't the reason they took an oath - their heart was. I really don't believe anyone in office today can say the same. The general public is nothing but a number to them. None of the reps from FL know a thing about me or my kids, and I can guarantee you none of them would give a flying flip to find out who I am or who any of you are unless it meant their wallet was being hit. Even then, they'd forget we exist the second everything in their 'world' is back the way they like.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Time to move the democratic process into the 21st Century. There is no reason why We the People cannot represent ourselves on the issues that most affect us all, namely spending and taxes.

Right now it is technically feasible for all elections to happen via the Internet. There are no security issues that have not already been resolved. Each state can issue approved unique Internet Voter Ids using similar ways that they are using for photo Drivers licenses. They can also set up web pages where a voter can sign in and using their unique id cast their votes.

With a system like that in place it would be easy enough for Congress to create a web site where We the People can cast our votes for the Budget Bills directly. Better yet, there is nothing to stop us from Budget Line Item voting either.

In other words Congress will know directly from We the People what spending we approve of and what we oppose. Then if they decide to go directly against the will of We the People we will know who to vote out of office in the next election.

The benefits of this mean that We the People will have a Voice that is just as loud as the Special Interest Lobbyists who are bribing our elected representatives. We can expand this beyond just budget bills to any bill that requires funding. Just log onto the web page for that bill and cast your vote before the deadline. Congress critters will then have an immediate read on what the people they represent want them to do.

This can happen here and now. All it takes is for We the People to start demanding that it happen now. Too many of the other ideas in this thread require Constitutional amendments. We the People voting via the Internet can happen as soon as we make it happen. The only thing stopping it is ourselves.

Once We the People start using the power of our votes directly to tell Congress what to do We the People will take back the power that the Founding Fathers bequeathed to us. This is our birthright and it is way overdue for us to take it back.

[MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION] [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION] [MENTION=43888]AyeCantSeeYou[/MENTION]

 

[Spoonman]

Time to move the democratic process into the 21st Century. There is no reason why We the People cannot represent ourselves on the issues that most affect us all, namely spending and taxes.

Right now it is technically feasible for all elections to happen via the Internet. There are no security issues that have not already been resolved. Each state can issue approved unique Internet Voter Ids using similar ways that they are using for photo Drivers licenses. They can also set up web pages where a voter can sign in and using their unique id cast their votes.

With a system like that in place it would be easy enough for Congress to create a web site where We the People can cast our votes for the Budget Bills directly. Better yet, there is nothing to stop us from Budget Line Item voting either.

In other words Congress will know directly from We the People what spending we approve of and what we oppose. Then if they decide to go directly against the will of We the People we will know who to vote out of office in the next election.

The benefits of this mean that We the People will have a Voice that is just as loud as the Special Interest Lobbyists who are bribing our elected representatives. We can expand this beyond just budget bills to any bill that requires funding. Just log onto the web page for that bill and cast your vote before the deadline. Congress critters will then have an immediate read on what the people they represent want them to do.

This can happen here and now. All it takes is for We the People to start demanding that it happen now. Too many of the other ideas in this thread require Constitutional amendments. We the People voting via the Internet can happen as soon as we make it happen. The only thing stopping it is ourselves.

Once We the People start using the power of our votes directly to tell Congress what to do We the People will take back the power that the Founding Fathers bequeathed to us. This is our birthright and it is way overdue for us to take it back.

[MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION] [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION] [MENTION=43888]AyeCantSeeYou[/MENTION]

more decisions should be put up for a public vote. let the people decide. and any issue that is being put up should also contain a detailed execution plan including how it will be funded. people are capable of making informed decisions. another thing that needs to happen is issues that should not be in the governments hands or should not be put to a public vote should be taken off the table.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Time to move the democratic process into the 21st Century. There is no reason why We the People cannot represent ourselves on the issues that most affect us all, namely spending and taxes.

Right now it is technically feasible for all elections to happen via the Internet. There are no security issues that have not already been resolved. Each state can issue approved unique Internet Voter Ids using similar ways that they are using for photo Drivers licenses. They can also set up web pages where a voter can sign in and using their unique id cast their votes.

With a system like that in place it would be easy enough for Congress to create a web site where We the People can cast our votes for the Budget Bills directly. Better yet, there is nothing to stop us from Budget Line Item voting either.

In other words Congress will know directly from We the People what spending we approve of and what we oppose. Then if they decide to go directly against the will of We the People we will know who to vote out of office in the next election.

The benefits of this mean that We the People will have a Voice that is just as loud as the Special Interest Lobbyists who are bribing our elected representatives. We can expand this beyond just budget bills to any bill that requires funding. Just log onto the web page for that bill and cast your vote before the deadline. Congress critters will then have an immediate read on what the people they represent want them to do.

This can happen here and now. All it takes is for We the People to start demanding that it happen now. Too many of the other ideas in this thread require Constitutional amendments. We the People voting via the Internet can happen as soon as we make it happen. The only thing stopping it is ourselves.

Once We the People start using the power of our votes directly to tell Congress what to do We the People will take back the power that the Founding Fathers bequeathed to us. This is our birthright and it is way overdue for us to take it back.

[MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION] [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION] [MENTION=43888]AyeCantSeeYou[/MENTION]

more decisions should be put up for a public vote. let the people decide. and any issue that is being put up should also contain a detailed execution plan including how it will be funded. people are capable of making informed decisions. another thing that needs to happen is issues that should not be in the governments hands or should not be put to a public vote should be taken off the table.

That is, however, a move away from Representative Democracy to pure Democracy. The Greeks tried it, with mixed results.

I like the idea, generally speaking, but the practical application is probably more problematic than most people think.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Time to move the democratic process into the 21st Century. There is no reason why We the People cannot represent ourselves on the issues that most affect us all, namely spending and taxes.

Right now it is technically feasible for all elections to happen via the Internet. There are no security issues that have not already been resolved. Each state can issue approved unique Internet Voter Ids using similar ways that they are using for photo Drivers licenses. They can also set up web pages where a voter can sign in and using their unique id cast their votes.

With a system like that in place it would be easy enough for Congress to create a web site where We the People can cast our votes for the Budget Bills directly. Better yet, there is nothing to stop us from Budget Line Item voting either.

In other words Congress will know directly from We the People what spending we approve of and what we oppose. Then if they decide to go directly against the will of We the People we will know who to vote out of office in the next election.

The benefits of this mean that We the People will have a Voice that is just as loud as the Special Interest Lobbyists who are bribing our elected representatives. We can expand this beyond just budget bills to any bill that requires funding. Just log onto the web page for that bill and cast your vote before the deadline. Congress critters will then have an immediate read on what the people they represent want them to do.

This can happen here and now. All it takes is for We the People to start demanding that it happen now. Too many of the other ideas in this thread require Constitutional amendments. We the People voting via the Internet can happen as soon as we make it happen. The only thing stopping it is ourselves.

Once We the People start using the power of our votes directly to tell Congress what to do We the People will take back the power that the Founding Fathers bequeathed to us. This is our birthright and it is way overdue for us to take it back.

[MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION] [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION] [MENTION=43888]AyeCantSeeYou[/MENTION]

more decisions should be put up for a public vote. let the people decide. and any issue that is being put up should also contain a detailed execution plan including how it will be funded. people are capable of making informed decisions. another thing that needs to happen is issues that should not be in the governments hands or should not be put to a public vote should be taken off the table.

That is, however, a move away from Representative Democracy to pure Democracy. The Greeks tried it, with mixed results.

I like the idea, generally speaking, but the practical application is probably more problematic than most people think.

We can retain a Representative Democracy but make it one that is more inline with how the world works today.

Casting ballots once every couple of years was a matter of what was feasible in those times. Elections were infrequent because travel was arduous and communications were limited.

Today we no longer have those limitations so we need a Representative Democracy that reflects our modern ability to communicate. The Special Interests have already taken advantage of easier travel and faster communication and there is no reason why voters have to be stuck with a horse drawn voting model.

Let's demand that the the Voices of We the People be heard as frequently as the need arises. It is perfectly feasible to cast a ballot with a couple of mouse clicks. Why should our representatives not be able to find out for themselves which way the people of their districts/states want them to vote on a bill on the floor?

Greater involvement by the electorate has got to be a better way than the current system where the Big Money always dictates which way "our" representatives end up voting. Given those alternatives this should be a no-brainer!

 

[AVG-JOE]

Interesting ideas. (Insert your preferred Deity here) knows SOMEthing needs to change.

I firmly believe, however, that any changes like those above are going to become just another game of corruption for the well-to-do to play unless we first start with a fair and simple tax code, and public budgets that are balanced by law.

As long as politicians have the power to customize the tax code for friends, supporters and those who're willing to pay for special treatment, it matters little how we choose them, big money will purchase corrupting influence because of the potential for avoiding the paying of a fair tax for years.

Same thing with balancing public budgets. As long as politicians have the power to spend money that they are unwilling or unable to collect from their current constituencies in the form of deficit spending, it matters little how those politicians are chosen.

There are symptoms and there are diseases. Right now, the disease is corruption and everyone seems to want to treat the symptoms. Our politicians obviously can't handle the power to customize taxes and to deficit spend without giving in to the corrupting influence of the well-heeled, so those powers need to be removed first, then we can discuss the modernization of our election processes.

Just my 2 cents...

I couldn't determine whether you're suggesting it's the POLITICIANS that are corrupted or that the SYSTEM ITSELF is corrupted.

The implications and solutions would vastly depending on which of them would be the case.

And I agree, just want to pinpoint which is the corrupted.

I don't know that any system can be said to be inherently corrupt. I also believe that corruption can raise its ugly head in just about any system. It's the people involved.

The truly unfortunate thing in our current system is that the corruption is so soft that it's become 'business as usual', requiring the spending of millions of dollars to get and keep a job that pays a couple hundred grand. As pointed out, campaigning and fund raising for the next election needs to begin during the victory speech for the current one. Money has become the driving force, but free speech is so precious that trying to limit how much can be given is just plain wrong. The secret is to limit the influence that can be bought, and that will require a fair and simple tax code and public budgets that are balanced by law.

As of January 1, thousands of tax breaks and tax credits for various industries expired and the lobbyists are working overtime trying to get theirs reinstated. Industries from big oil to 'Green' energy to Puerto Rican Rum and banking are lobbying your representatives in congress hard to get their tax breaks back, most of them will and it's just not fair to the rest of the businesses who have to pay some of the highest rates in the world to compensate.

On the personal side, tax breaks for housing, parking, having kids, spending, saving, etc, etc, etc are also skewing the economy, and I don't believe that there has ever been a politician smart enough to micro-manage the economy from the top down like that. Certainly not at the federal level. That is the direct opposite of "free enterprise".

Even the poor get to play with much of our "welfare" being doled out in the form of complicated earned income tax credits that invite abuse and fraud.



Look at the money made by the Tax Preparation Industry... Billions spent every year just to do the fucking paperwork to work in this country... We are looking so stupid from space.

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

more decisions should be put up for a public vote. let the people decide. and any issue that is being put up should also contain a detailed execution plan including how it will be funded. people are capable of making informed decisions. another thing that needs to happen is issues that should not be in the governments hands or should not be put to a public vote should be taken off the table.

That is, however, a move away from Representative Democracy to pure Democracy. The Greeks tried it, with mixed results.

I like the idea, generally speaking, but the practical application is probably more problematic than most people think.

We can retain a Representative Democracy but make it one that is more inline with how the world works today.

Casting ballots once every couple of years was a matter of what was feasible in those times. Elections were infrequent because travel was arduous and communications were limited.

Today we no longer have those limitations so we need a Representative Democracy that reflects our modern ability to communicate. The Special Interests have already taken advantage of easier travel and faster communication and there is no reason why voters have to be stuck with a horse drawn voting model.

Let's demand that the the Voices of We the People be heard as frequently as the need arises. It is perfectly feasible to cast a ballot with a couple of mouse clicks. Why should our representatives not be able to find out for themselves which way the people of their districts/states want them to vote on a bill on the floor?

Greater involvement by the electorate has got to be a better way than the current system where the Big Money always dictates which way "our" representatives end up voting. Given those alternatives this should be a no-brainer!

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

 

[Derideo_Te]

That is, however, a move away from Representative Democracy to pure Democracy. The Greeks tried it, with mixed results.

I like the idea, generally speaking, but the practical application is probably more problematic than most people think.

We can retain a Representative Democracy but make it one that is more inline with how the world works today.

Casting ballots once every couple of years was a matter of what was feasible in those times. Elections were infrequent because travel was arduous and communications were limited.

Today we no longer have those limitations so we need a Representative Democracy that reflects our modern ability to communicate. The Special Interests have already taken advantage of easier travel and faster communication and there is no reason why voters have to be stuck with a horse drawn voting model.

Let's demand that the the Voices of We the People be heard as frequently as the need arises. It is perfectly feasible to cast a ballot with a couple of mouse clicks. Why should our representatives not be able to find out for themselves which way the people of their districts/states want them to vote on a bill on the floor?

Greater involvement by the electorate has got to be a better way than the current system where the Big Money always dictates which way "our" representatives end up voting. Given those alternatives this should be a no-brainer!

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

Plenty of griping websites out there. (Just like this one )

But a place where registered voters essentially vote for or against a bill that their representative is about to vote on and that result is now on the record of that congress person for when the next election comes around?

Let's take your examples and assume that the MFN bill for China in on the floor. The representative's smart phones would reflect the results of the voters in their districts before they cast their vote on the floor. How many of them do you believe would vote against the majority of their own district? Ditto for a Transportation bill to fix roads and bridges.

The Voice of We the People would be a constant reminder to our representatives that we are watching every vote they make. Or as Reagan put it, "trust but verify". How many passes would you be willing to give your own congress critter if he constantly voted against your best interests? Right now the majority of incumbents are re-elected. There would be no need for term limits if the registered voters already knew how many times they were being screwed over in favor of the Special Interests.

 

[BlackSand]

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

If we have the ability to be that precise ... How about we add a link for filing income taxes electronically?
Make it a link where Americans that pay income taxes can divide the amount they owe among programs they wish to support ... Like Roads and Bridges, Military, Federal Government, Social Security, Welfare or Pork Projects.

That way we can make sure taxpayers are sufficiently represented in the capacity they contribute.
I mean if we are going to change the system to be fair by population ... Then fair by contribution would be equally justified.

.

 

[Statistikhengst]

That is, however, a move away from Representative Democracy to pure Democracy. The Greeks tried it, with mixed results.

I like the idea, generally speaking, but the practical application is probably more problematic than most people think.

We can retain a Representative Democracy but make it one that is more inline with how the world works today.

Casting ballots once every couple of years was a matter of what was feasible in those times. Elections were infrequent because travel was arduous and communications were limited.

Today we no longer have those limitations so we need a Representative Democracy that reflects our modern ability to communicate. The Special Interests have already taken advantage of easier travel and faster communication and there is no reason why voters have to be stuck with a horse drawn voting model.

Let's demand that the the Voices of We the People be heard as frequently as the need arises. It is perfectly feasible to cast a ballot with a couple of mouse clicks. Why should our representatives not be able to find out for themselves which way the people of their districts/states want them to vote on a bill on the floor?

Greater involvement by the electorate has got to be a better way than the current system where the Big Money always dictates which way "our" representatives end up voting. Given those alternatives this should be a no-brainer!

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

That's exactly the point. Many things that our Government does, it does with advance knowledge that the general public does not necessarily have. They don't realize that there is a game going on behind the scenes, a sort of give and take, over all sorts of things.

Foreign aid is a drop in the bucket compared to our GDP, but we get a helluva lot more out of it than we put into it. We get: overfly rights, base rights in many countries outside of NATO, for example. That foreign aid may be unpopular, but it is necessary. But the public doesn't see the payback, it takes it for granted that we get these things.

And what if an extremist wave hits the public and it decides to cut funding for all public schools, and wins that ballot initiative? What do we do then? Kill off our public teaching workforce?

There is a reason for why we have a representative Democracy and not a pure Democracy. Pure Democracy in Greece brought that small nation to a complete stillstand.

For extremely major issue, I could consider it, but for everything? No way.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

If we have the ability to be that precise ... How about we add a link for filing income taxes electronically?
Make it a link where Americans that pay income taxes can divide the amount they owe among programs they wish to support ... Like Roads and Bridges, Military, Federal Government, Social Security, Welfare or Pork Projects.

That way we can make sure taxpayers are sufficiently represented in the capacity they contribute.
I mean if we are going to change the system to be fair by population ... Then fair by contribution would be equally justified.

.

Works for me! Similar to giving voters a line item vote on Budget Bills. That way the popularity of each item will be readily apparent to our representatives.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

If we have the ability to be that precise ... How about we add a link for filing income taxes electronically?
Make it a link where Americans that pay income taxes can divide the amount they owe among programs they wish to support ... Like Roads and Bridges, Military, Federal Government, Social Security, Welfare or Pork Projects.

That way we can make sure taxpayers are sufficiently represented in the capacity they contribute.
I mean if we are going to change the system to be fair by population ... Then fair by contribution would be equally justified.

.

That would also be an idea, but my gut tells me that areas with a lower tax base would end up on the losing side of this equation.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Even if there was just a web site where we could go to voice our opinion on which programs deserve funding...

How many of us would vote to continue millions in military aid to Russia and Egypt?

How many of us would vote to continue most favored nation trading status for China?

How many of us would vote for a little more money devoted to roads and bridges here in the USA?

If we have the ability to be that precise ... How about we add a link for filing income taxes electronically?
Make it a link where Americans that pay income taxes can divide the amount they owe among programs they wish to support ... Like Roads and Bridges, Military, Federal Government, Social Security, Welfare or Pork Projects.

That way we can make sure taxpayers are sufficiently represented in the capacity they contribute.
I mean if we are going to change the system to be fair by population ... Then fair by contribution would be equally justified.

.

Works for me! Similar to giving voters a line item vote on Budget Bills. That way the popularity of each item will be readily apparent to our representatives.

Perhaps readily apparent, but not necessarily based on an informed decision of the public.

How many people here actually read the voter's guide before the elections and actually study all of the platform points of a candidate?

Now, imagine how uninformed the public could be about spending for highway renovations in Wyoming, for instance. Wyoming is only 0.18% of the US population. Does the other 99+% of the population care? Would it be motivated for funds for highway renovation in WY? That is just one possible way where the shot could come out of the back side of the gun, instead of the front*

(*I just took a german idiomatic phrase and anglicized it for fun)

 

[BlackSand]

That would also be an idea, but my gut tells me that areas with a lower tax base would end up on the losing side of this equation.

Well that very well could be the result ... But is only a concern if you are the loser.
If we are going to seriously suggest that the people know what is best in governance ... Well why stop where it suits those who just want to gain more advantage?

One self indulgent cause is no more noble than the next.

.

 

[Statistikhengst]

That would also be an idea, but my gut tells me that areas with a lower tax base would end up on the losing side of this equation.

Well that very well could be the result ... But is only a concern if you are the loser.
If we are going to seriously suggest that the people know what is best in governance ... Well why stop where it suits those who just want to gain more advantage?

One self indulgent cause is no more noble than the next.

.

Sounds ok, until you are once on the losing side of an important issue.

My point is, we need a governance in moderation, not kneejerk reactions from the public.

Most members of USMB would be good pure Democracy voters, because we pay attention to a lot of stuff, because we like to debate and these details interest us. But I would venture to say that the vast majority of the public is not so. The public is more concerned with personal pocketbook issues most of the time.

Of course, a smart application of pure democracy could be issues that are broad and affect the entire nation, for instance, instead of a highway renovation for just Wyoming, a highway renovation for all 50 states.

 

[BlackSand]

Sounds ok, until you are once on the losing side of an important issue.

My point is, we need a governance in moderation, not kneejerk reactions from the public.

Most members of USMB would be good pure Democracy voters, because we pay attention to a lot of stuff, because we like to debate and these details interest us. But I would venture to say that the vast majority of the public is not so. The public is more concerned with personal pocketbook issues most of the time.

Of course, a smart application of pure democracy could be issues that are broad and affect the entire nation, for instance, instead of a highway renovation for just Wyoming, a highway renovation for all 50 states.

Pfft ... I am a true Conservative and always on the losing side of governance nowadays.
I am not upset like most people though ... In as I have a firm understanding that we should adapt to what happens and figure out better ways to provide for ourselves and those in need.
I will survive no matter what the people or the government decide to do outside of open warfare.

An easy example would be people who complain about the price of gasoline.
When the price goes up ... Look at all the people who fuss and carry on ... They blame the oil companies and people who make a profit in the industry.
I am simply thankful that every mutual fund available in the market today is vested in big oil ... All the people with a 401k are putting more money towards their retirement ... Then figure out how I am going to earn more money to pay for my gas.

I don't need more Social Security ... I need more Get the Hell Out of My Business.
And if you are worried about appropriations for roads in Wyoming ... You should have left that up to the State of Wyoming ... And not turned it into a Federal matter in the first place.

Edit:
I should acknowledge the US Highways and Interstates are not the property of Wyoming ... Nor are they restricted to or solely beneficial to the residents of Wyoming.

.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Sounds ok, until you are once on the losing side of an important issue.

My point is, we need a governance in moderation, not kneejerk reactions from the public.

Most members of USMB would be good pure Democracy voters, because we pay attention to a lot of stuff, because we like to debate and these details interest us. But I would venture to say that the vast majority of the public is not so. The public is more concerned with personal pocketbook issues most of the time.

Of course, a smart application of pure democracy could be issues that are broad and affect the entire nation, for instance, instead of a highway renovation for just Wyoming, a highway renovation for all 50 states.

Pfft ... I am a true Conservative and always on the losing side of governance nowadays.
I am not upset like most people though ... In as I have a firm understanding that we should adapt to what happens and figure out better ways to provide for ourselves and those in need.
I will survive no matter what the people or the government decide to do outside of open warfare.

An easy example would be people who complain about the price of gasoline.
When the price goes up ... Look at all the people who fuss and carry on ... They blame the oil companies and people who make a profit in the industry.
I am simply thankful that every mutual fund available in the market today is vested in big oil ... All the people with a 401k are putting more money towards their retirement ... Then figure out how I am going to earn more money to pay for my gas.

I don't need more Social Security ... I need more Get the Hell Out of My Business.
And if you are worried about appropriations for roads in Wyoming ... You should have left that up to the State of Wyoming ... And not turned it into a Federal matter in the first place.

Edit:
I should acknowledge the US Highways and Interstates are not the property of Wyoming ... Nor are they restricted to or solely beneficial to the residents of Wyoming.

.

I love it when you write tongue-in-cheek.

You did, right?

I just used Highways in WY as a possible example..... since earmarks are loved by both parties, not just the democratic party.

But the point you made about gas prices was a good point, indeed.

 

[Amelia]

You put a lot of thought into those posts, Stat. Brava for your patience and common sense.

With that said...will anything ever come of your ideas and suggestions? Probably not in my lifetime.
I am not "as in" to politics as most here...all I know is, the electoral vote thing SUCKS. We in california are still at the polls and the president is already known before we can even place our vote. That stinks. So it doesn't really matter WHO I want to vote for. It wouldn't count.

Well, actually, in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012 the call for the President was either when the polls closed or somewhat after:

2000, December 13
2004, the day after the election at around 3 pm EDT
2008, 11:00 pm EDT
2012 11:18 pm EDT

Also, in 1992, Clinton went over the top at 10:58 pm EDT.

True, in 1996, he was called at 9:25 pm as the polls on the West Coast and beyond were still open.

Thanks for the kind words

In 2000, the call was made for Gore before the polls in the Florida panhandle had closed. The people in the Republican-heavy panhandle were told their votes didn't matter. How much did that affect the votes when people who worked at military bases heard on the radio as they got off work that the election was decided so they didn't need to go to the polls?

Then the call was reversed and the recount nightmare began. But if Florida had gone to Gore after the panhandle vote was screwed with like that .... grrrrr.

 

[Spoonman]

Time to move the democratic process into the 21st Century. There is no reason why We the People cannot represent ourselves on the issues that most affect us all, namely spending and taxes.

Right now it is technically feasible for all elections to happen via the Internet. There are no security issues that have not already been resolved. Each state can issue approved unique Internet Voter Ids using similar ways that they are using for photo Drivers licenses. They can also set up web pages where a voter can sign in and using their unique id cast their votes.

With a system like that in place it would be easy enough for Congress to create a web site where We the People can cast our votes for the Budget Bills directly. Better yet, there is nothing to stop us from Budget Line Item voting either.

In other words Congress will know directly from We the People what spending we approve of and what we oppose. Then if they decide to go directly against the will of We the People we will know who to vote out of office in the next election.

The benefits of this mean that We the People will have a Voice that is just as loud as the Special Interest Lobbyists who are bribing our elected representatives. We can expand this beyond just budget bills to any bill that requires funding. Just log onto the web page for that bill and cast your vote before the deadline. Congress critters will then have an immediate read on what the people they represent want them to do.

This can happen here and now. All it takes is for We the People to start demanding that it happen now. Too many of the other ideas in this thread require Constitutional amendments. We the People voting via the Internet can happen as soon as we make it happen. The only thing stopping it is ourselves.

Once We the People start using the power of our votes directly to tell Congress what to do We the People will take back the power that the Founding Fathers bequeathed to us. This is our birthright and it is way overdue for us to take it back.

[MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION] [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION] [MENTION=43888]AyeCantSeeYou[/MENTION]

more decisions should be put up for a public vote. let the people decide. and any issue that is being put up should also contain a detailed execution plan including how it will be funded. people are capable of making informed decisions. another thing that needs to happen is issues that should not be in the governments hands or should not be put to a public vote should be taken off the table.

That is, however, a move away from Representative Democracy to pure Democracy. The Greeks tried it, with mixed results.

I like the idea, generally speaking, but the practical application is probably more problematic than most people think.

I'm not advocating taking all decisions out of the politicians hands. but certainly decisions that need an element of control. like legislation they try to pass pertaining to themselves.

 

[racewright]

more decisions should be put up for a public vote. let the people decide. and any issue that is being put up should also contain a detailed execution plan including how it will be funded. people are capable of making informed decisions. another thing that needs to happen is issues that should not be in the governments hands or should not be put to a public vote should be taken off the table.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________nope


The public will only make decisions based on their brainwashed ideals forced on them by progressive educations.
And who decides what should be in the government's hands you .

Just follow the constitution
,,most politicians have turned it into some kind of late term abortion.