Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

[daveman]

U.N. Warns of Devastating Environmental Side Effects of Electric Car Boom​

How 'bout y'all solve this problem first before you insist everyone buy only electric vehicles?

 

[Rigby5]

"Prices for the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid start at $131,190. The fully loaded Plaid we tested costs $149,190..."

Yeah, that's amazingly practical.

Not to mention the batteries last less than 10,000 miles and cost $50k to replace.
Nor are there enough rare earth elements to built a tenth as many Teslas as there are ICE vehicles.

 

[JohnDB]

By weight, petroleum products carry more energy than any battery created.

Also

The cost of EVs is still higher than the internal combustion engine.... only tax incentives make them cheaper. And so many of the parts of the EV are still petroleum products...from foam seats to fiberglass panels and plastic dashboards... petroleum products make up a significant amount of an EV.

So....as the bill for Covid quarantines comes due... governments won't be able to afford the tax incentives anymore.

If they can fix the ratio of energy per ounce.... then (and only then) will EVs will have a permanent place. Also the distance an EV can travel and the time required to charge an EV is also highly inefficient.

 

[Old Rocks]

U.N. Warns of Devastating Environmental Side Effects of Electric Car Boom​

How 'bout y'all solve this problem first before you insist everyone buy only electric vehicles?

Hey Dumb-de-dumb dumb, no one is going to insist on everyone having an EV for quite a while. But there will be regulations that state after this time, you cannot manufacture an ICE. There are already such rules in other nations, usually about 2030 or 2035. By that time, the EV's will be less costly to buy, they are already longer lasting, and outperform ICE's. And they are far less costly to run, and require far less maintenance. Also, as production of gasoline drops from lack of demand, the cost per gallon is going to go up, and it is going to be harder to find a place to buy gas or diesel. The death knell for ICE's is sounding right now, and anyone that cannot see that is blind.

 

[Old Rocks]

By weight, petroleum products carry more energy than any battery created.

Also

The cost of EVs is still higher than the internal combustion engine.... only tax incentives make them cheaper. And so many of the parts of the EV are still petroleum products...from foam seats to fiberglass panels and plastic dashboards... petroleum products make up a significant amount of an EV.

So....as the bill for Covid quarantines comes due... governments won't be able to afford the tax incentives anymore.

If they can fix the ratio of energy per ounce.... then (and only then) will EVs will have a permanent place. Also the distance an EV can travel and the time required to charge an EV is also highly inefficient.

EV's are about 80% efficient, ICE's about 20%. Electricity is far cheaper than gasoline or diesel. And you can use your solar panels to run your vehicle. What matters is range and charging time. Charging time for EV's continues to go down and the range of EV's continue to increase. Many are already on parity with what you get from a tank of gas already. And the cost of an EV will rapidly decline by 2025. BYD has already developed batteries that cost less than $100 per kw/hr.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Also, as production of gasoline drops from lack of demand,

When is that going to happen?

 

[Old Rocks]

When is that going to happen?

When about 50% of the vehicles on the road, cars, pickups, and semi's are EV's.

 

[Rigby5]

Hey Dumb-de-dumb dumb, no one is going to insist on everyone having an EV for quite a while. But there will be regulations that state after this time, you cannot manufacture an ICE. There are already such rules in other nations, usually about 2030 or 2035. By that time, the EV's will be less costly to buy, they are already longer lasting, and outperform ICE's. And they are far less costly to run, and require far less maintenance. Also, as production of gasoline drops from lack of demand, the cost per gallon is going to go up, and it is going to be harder to find a place to buy gas or diesel. The death knell for ICE's is sounding right now, and anyone that cannot see that is blind.

Wrong.
There is not enough lithium or rare earth elements for everyone who now has a vehicle, to switch to electric.
So it is never going to happen.
And as there are more EVs, the cost will go up as lithium becomes more scarce.
EVs do not last longer that ICE because batteries don't last more than 10 years and cost over $5000.
The only reason EVs cost less to run is that they pay no fuel tax now, but they will have to eventually.
And when gasoline production drops from lack of demand, that reduces the price of gasoline, not make it go up.
It could never be hard to find gasoline or diesel, as there are too many things like lawn equipment, construction site generators, etc., that will always need it and it can be made from bio ingredients if need be.
The death knell for ICE's will be in 40 years when the oil runs out, not from EV competition.
EVs make no sense at all.

 

[Rigby5]

EV's are about 80% efficient, ICE's about 20%. Electricity is far cheaper than gasoline or diesel. And you can use your solar panels to run your vehicle. What matters is range and charging time. Charging time for EV's continues to go down and the range of EV's continue to increase. Many are already on parity with what you get from a tank of gas already. And the cost of an EV will rapidly decline by 2025. BYD has already developed batteries that cost less than $100 per kw/hr.

That is just a total lie.

EV electric motors are only 50% efficient, but you have to also factor in all the other inefficiencies with electric.
Generating electricity is only 50% efficient.
Transmission lines are only 90% efficient.
Charging batteries is only 50% efficient.
Discharging batteries is only 50% efficient.
That is about 5% efficient all factored in.

And ICE's like turbo diesels are also only 50% efficient, but without all the additional inefficiencies.

You can NOT use your solar panels to run your vehicle because the car is gone during the day when the sun is shining, and only back home at night when there is no solar power.

And no, recharging is NOT and never will be on a parity with ICE, because the instant refill of an ICE fuel tank makes it effectively infinite.

BYD is a Chinese company being sued by the cities of LA and Albuquerque for delivering electric buses for about a million each, that don't work.

 

[Rigby5]

When about 50% of the vehicles on the road, cars, pickups, and semi's are EV's.

Never going to happen.
No traveling on the interstate is going to be able to wait for recharge times.
Trucks are never going EV since it would cut their cargo capacity by 50% and double the coast to coast trip time.
Planes can never be EVs due to the battery weight.
Trains can never go EV, as half the train would have to be batteries.

 

[Old Rocks]

Wrong.
There is not enough lithium or rare earth elements for everyone who now has a vehicle, to switch to electric.
So it is never going to happen.
And as there are more EVs, the cost will go up as lithium becomes more scarce.
EVs do not last longer that ICE because batteries don't last more than 10 years and cost over $5000.
The only reason EVs cost less to run is that they pay no fuel tax now, but they will have to eventually.
And when gasoline production drops from lack of demand, that reduces the price of gasoline, not make it go up.
It could never be hard to find gasoline or diesel, as there are too many things like lawn equipment, construction site generators, etc., that will always need it and it can be made from bio ingredients if need be.
The death knell for ICE's will be in 40 years when the oil runs out, not from EV competition.
EVs make no sense at all.

Dumb-de-dumb dumb. Just one site, the McDermitt Caldera, on the Oregon-Nevada border can supply at least 25% of the world's lithium for the next 40 years. And the geology there is not unique. Plenty of similar sites in Oregon and Nevada. Lithium is not a rare element. Tesla has developed a method of extracting the lithium from the clay that is much less costly than most methods used to obtain lithium.

At a certain point, as the demand for gasoline drops, the big refineries are no longer profitable. So smaller refineries take over. Economies of scale work in the other direction, also.

The death knell for ICE's is already sounding as major auto manufacturers ramp up to produce them. And various nations discourage the purchase of ICE's.

 

[Old Rocks]

That is just a total lie.

EV electric motors are only 50% efficient, but you have to also factor in all the other inefficiencies with electric.
Generating electricity is only 50% efficient.
Transmission lines are only 90% efficient.
Charging batteries is only 50% efficient.
Discharging batteries is only 50% efficient.
That is about 5% efficient all factored in.

And ICE's like turbo diesels are also only 50% efficient, but without all the additional inefficiencies.

You can NOT use your solar panels to run your vehicle because the car is gone during the day when the sun is shining, and only back home at night when there is no solar power.

And no, recharging is NOT and never will be on a parity with ICE, because the instant refill of an ICE fuel tank makes it effectively infinite.

BYD is a Chinese company being sued by the cities of LA and Albuquerque for delivering electric buses for about a million each, that don't work.

You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. Minimum nominal efficiency for any motor more than 125 hp is 92.4%

Electric Motors - Efficiency

Calculate electric motor efficiency.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

 

[Old Rocks]

That is just a total lie.

EV electric motors are only 50% efficient, but you have to also factor in all the other inefficiencies with electric.
Generating electricity is only 50% efficient.
Transmission lines are only 90% efficient.
Charging batteries is only 50% efficient.
Discharging batteries is only 50% efficient.
That is about 5% efficient all factored in.

And ICE's like turbo diesels are also only 50% efficient, but without all the additional inefficiencies.

You can NOT use your solar panels to run your vehicle because the car is gone during the day when the sun is shining, and only back home at night when there is no solar power.

And no, recharging is NOT and never will be on a parity with ICE, because the instant refill of an ICE fuel tank makes it effectively infinite.

BYD is a Chinese company being sued by the cities of LA and Albuquerque for delivering electric buses for about a million each, that don't work.

You 'Conservatives' are such lame brained liars. You post like you actually know something, and the whole of your post is shit. Here are the facts concerning the efficiencies in an EV;

Where the Energy Goes: Electric Cars

EVs are 60% to 73% efficient, depending upon drive cycle (77% to 100% efficient if the energy recaptured from regenerative braking is counted).

www.fueleconomy.gov

 

[Rigby5]

Dumb-de-dumb dumb. Just one site, the McDermitt Caldera, on the Oregon-Nevada border can supply at least 25% of the world's lithium for the next 40 years. And the geology there is not unique. Plenty of similar sites in Oregon and Nevada. Lithium is not a rare element. Tesla has developed a method of extracting the lithium from the clay that is much less costly than most methods used to obtain lithium.

At a certain point, as the demand for gasoline drops, the big refineries are no longer profitable. So smaller refineries take over. Economies of scale work in the other direction, also.

The death knell for ICE's is already sounding as major auto manufacturers ramp up to produce them. And various nations discourage the purchase of ICE's.

Wrong.
The McDermitt Caldera can't even supply 25% of the US needs for lithium if we tried to go all EV.
Currently less than 1% of vehicles are EVs, so production would have to increase by over a factor of 100.
And the main sources of lithium are Australian, Chile, and Argentina, not the US.

And no, if and when gasoline demand drops, then you do NOT build smaller refineries.
You instead just shut down some of the big refineries, with the remaining refineries still being large ones with the exact same economy of scale they ever had.

The 2 methods of obtaining lithium are hard mining spodumene, and brine solution, neither of which have have any significant improvements that I know of.

The death knell for ICE will be when oil run so low that it price is too high, not from EV competition, which will never be as good as ICE.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When about 50% of the vehicles on the road, cars, pickups, and semi's are EV's.

So when will that happen?

 

[Rigby5]

You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. Minimum nominal efficiency for any motor more than 125 hp is 92.4%

Electric Motors - Efficiency

Calculate electric motor efficiency.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

Wrong.
Your 92% efficiency is an ideal motor that runs at a constant speed with little load.
A realistic figure for electric motors in a vehicle is more like 50%.
But efficiency is an attempt at diversion because the efficiency of an ICE engine is irrelevant since the energy is mostly almost free fossil fuel.
The point is that the reduction in fossil fuel that will force reduced use of ICE engines will also prevent the use of EVs.
EVs could be 100% efficient and it would not matter because there will be no source of EV energy once fossil fuels run out.

 

[Old Rocks]

Never going to happen.
No traveling on the interstate is going to be able to wait for recharge times.
Trucks are never going EV since it would cut their cargo capacity by 50% and double the coast to coast trip time.
Planes can never be EVs due to the battery weight.
Trains can never go EV, as half the train would have to be batteries.

Lord have mercy. Don't you ever get tired of proving yourself a fool? The supercharges now coming out are going to reduce charging time for an 80% charge to about 15 minutes. And Tesla is going to start add restaurants to their super charging stations. Your dumbass statement concerning semi's is pretty damned stupid considering that all the major manufacturers are now bringing out EV semi's. There are already EV planes for sale. Trains don't need to be battery driven, most high speed rail is EV already.

Semi | Tesla

Tesla Semi is a fully electric semi truck with active safety features, massive range and a spacious interior designed for maximum visibility.

www.tesla.com

 

[Rigby5]

You 'Conservatives' are such lame brained liars. You post like you actually know something, and the whole of your post is shit. Here are the facts concerning the efficiencies in an EV;

Where the Energy Goes: Electric Cars

EVs are 60% to 73% efficient, depending upon drive cycle (77% to 100% efficient if the energy recaptured from regenerative braking is counted).

www.fueleconomy.gov

View attachment 516554

Wong.
You are ignoring headlights, wipers, defrost fan, heaters, etc.
These thing are going to cut EV range by over 30%.
You are also ignoring the fact the battery weight will double the energy consumption on hills.

 

[Old Rocks]

Wrong.
Your 92% efficiency is an ideal motor that runs at a constant speed with little load.
A realistic figure for electric motors in a vehicle is more like 50%.
But efficiency is an attempt at diversion because the efficiency of an ICE engine is irrelevant since the energy is mostly almost free fossil fuel.
The point is that the reduction in fossil fuel that will force reduced use of ICE engines will also prevent the use of EVs.
EVs could be 100% efficient and it would not matter because there will be no source of EV energy once fossil fuels run out.

LOL Post a link for that. You have proven already that you pull shit out of your ass, with zero credibility.

 

[Rigby5]

Lord have mercy. Don't you ever get tired of proving yourself a fool? The supercharges now coming out are going to reduce charging time for an 80% charge to about 15 minutes. And Tesla is going to start add restaurants to their super charging stations. Your dumbass statement concerning semi's is pretty damned stupid considering that all the major manufacturers are now bringing out EV semi's. There are already EV planes for sale. Trains don't need to be battery driven, most high speed rail is EV already.

Semi | Tesla

Tesla Semi is a fully electric semi truck with active safety features, massive range and a spacious interior designed for maximum visibility.

www.tesla.com

The faster you try to recharge batteries, the shorter the life span.
And at over $5000 for batteries, that is not viable.

No one has EV semi trucks on the road, and the only prototypes I have seen are not practical due to reduced cargo and recharge waits.
The EV planes were all animated simulations. There are none and likely to be none.

But you have a good point about trains, since they can easily use overhead conductors and don't need batteries.