Elizabeth Warren proposes canceling student loan debt and offering free public college

[Lesh]

And here we have another right wing myth. It’s not the colleges that are saying that college is the path to success. It’s all of society. Most notably business. They want that educated pool to pick from. And the bigger the pool the less they can pay.

 

[dblack]

And here we have another right wing myth. It’s not the colleges that are saying that college is the path to success. It’s all of society. Most notably business. They want that educated pool to pick from. And the bigger the pool the less they can pay.

Exactly. I've been saying that for years. Public education - especially higher education - is vetting agency for business. That's why they focus more on grading and testing than on educating.

 

[rightwinger]

Cancel the debt and make Mexico pay for it

 

[Polishprince]

Cancel the debt and make Mexico pay for it

Mexico should be paying for the illegals from their country who take student loans. It really doesn't benefit America for there to be more educated Mexicans.


The key to the whole Illegal Alien problem is MMGA, MEGA, MHGA, etc. Make Mexico Great Again, Make El Salvador Great Again, Make Honduras Great Again.


That's the whole capitalist system in a nut shell. Let everyone control their own destiny.

 

[Unkotare]

.....It really doesn't benefit America for there to be more educated Mexicans.......

Of course it does. That doesn't mean we should foot the bill, but it does benefit us.

 

[dblack]

.....It really doesn't benefit America for there to be more educated Mexicans.......

Of course it does. That doesn't mean we should foot the bill, but it does benefit us.

Yep. That's why we pay them money.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow I can see that college education didn't do you much good

the word you were searching for is wherewithal

Too early to spellcheck... but never mind.

K-12 is for minor children.

When you are an adult, you should pay your own way.

If you ever grow up you will know this

Uh, guy, until recently, universities were largely subsidized by the government, and it worked just fine....

When I went to UIC back in the 1980's, Tuition was about $1500 a year, and I could easily pay for that working a minimum wage job for 10 hours a week. (I didn't have to, the army picked that up, but never mind.)

Today, that same "affordable" university charges $17,000 a year, more than you could make working a minimum wage job. This is the problem we are talking about. We've required something to get into the workforce, but then we turn around and put it out of the reach of most working class kids.

So as much as you like to beat your chest about "Self-reliance", what you really want is a game that is rigged in your favor.

 

[JoeB131]

Ahh.. so you are confused. I didn't say employers want stupid employees (strawman?). We were discussing how government subsidizing college degrees artificially increases demand. Of course an employer will favor a candidate with a college degree. And if everybody and their brother has a college degree, because government is financing it, it will be very difficult for someone without one to get a job. In effect, the government is making it harder for people without degrees to get a job - even for a job that doesn't really require one, like yours.

Yes, yes, it's the evil government... the poor corporations are just victims of circumstance!

What has artificially increased demand is employer requirements... and not just in education. Have you read a job posting lately? They usually list an impossible list of requirements

But it's the bad old government, that's what it is... the mean old government helping people out... and making rich people pay for it... those bastards!

Do they get standard issue jack boots with the term of service?

Yup, we are indoctrinating them to think Libertarians are silly.

Oh, wait, most people think Libertarians are silly.

 

[JoeB131]

Forced, involuntary servitude runs into 13th Amendment problems.

Um, no. Selective Service has been consistently found to be constitutional.

Joe doesn't care about the Constitution. Just more power for the state.

Not a constitutional issue. We've had drafts from 1914 to 1975, no one had a constitutional issue with them.

Yes, but the notion of young people learning teamwork, commitment, responsibility and in some cases, marketable trades... that would be horrible. Nope, nope, better to let them just bankrupt themselves getting a degree in women's studies that no one will hire them with.

 

[JoeB131]

Exactly. I've been saying that for years. Public education - especially higher education - is vetting agency for business. That's why they focus more on grading and testing than on educating.

YOu mean- gasp- education is focused on teaching people the skills to earn a living?

That's HORRIBLE!!! What a terrible thing to do, those sneaky corporate/government lizard people conspiring to you know, help us!

 

[Blues Man]

Wow I can see that college education didn't do you much good

the word you were searching for is wherewithal

Too early to spellcheck... but never mind.

View attachment 258584

K-12 is for minor children.

When you are an adult, you should pay your own way.

If you ever grow up you will know this

Uh, guy, until recently, universities were largely subsidized by the government, and it worked just fine....

When I went to UIC back in the 1980's, Tuition was about $1500 a year, and I could easily pay for that working a minimum wage job for 10 hours a week. (I didn't have to, the army picked that up, but never mind.)

Today, that same "affordable" university charges $17,000 a year, more than you could make working a minimum wage job. This is the problem we are talking about. We've required something to get into the workforce, but then we turn around and put it out of the reach of most working class kids.

So as much as you like to beat your chest about "Self-reliance", what you really want is a game that is rigged in your favor.

Spell check? Spell check would not have caught that one

You used 3 different words because they sounded like the one you were searching for.

Like I said that college degree didn't help you much did it?

And define recently.

In this country the first universities were private not government run and we have state colleges so if you want to get a degree you have many options and you don't need me to pay your way

And you don't seem to understand that you don't have to go to college full time.

If you can't afford to go to college full time then go part time and pay as you go.

 

[Polishprince]

Forced, involuntary servitude runs into 13th Amendment problems.

Um, no. Selective Service has been consistently found to be constitutional.

A military draft goes to the Federal Government's right to raise armies. Quite a different idea than compulsory service to pick up litter on the nation's highways , solicit money for ACORN or whatever else you want the youths to waste their time doing.

 

[iceberg]

Ahh.. so you are confused. I didn't say employers want stupid employees (strawman?). We were discussing how government subsidizing college degrees artificially increases demand. Of course an employer will favor a candidate with a college degree. And if everybody and their brother has a college degree, because government is financing it, it will be very difficult for someone without one to get a job. In effect, the government is making it harder for people without degrees to get a job - even for a job that doesn't really require one, like yours.

Yes, yes, it's the evil government... the poor corporations are just victims of circumstance!

What has artificially increased demand is employer requirements... and not just in education. Have you read a job posting lately? They usually list an impossible list of requirements

But it's the bad old government, that's what it is... the mean old government helping people out... and making rich people pay for it... those bastards!

Do they get standard issue jack boots with the term of service?

Yup, we are indoctrinating them to think Libertarians are silly.

Oh, wait, most people think Libertarians are silly.

so - how many grammatical errors do others find in this one?

 

[Polishprince]

When I went to UIC back in the 1980's, Tuition was about $1500 a year, and I could easily pay for that working a minimum wage job for 10 hours a week. (I didn't have to, the army picked that up, but never mind.)

Today, that same "affordable" university charges $17,000 a year, more than you could make working a minimum wage job. This is the problem we are talking about. We've required something to get into the workforce, but then we turn around and put it out of the reach of most working class kids.

So as much as you like to beat your chest about "Self-reliance", what you really want is a game that is rigged in your favor.

Getting control of college costs for public owned institutions is the key here. The number of pointless provosts and programs has accelerated as the funding as increased. Bringing MORE money into higher education will means even more crazy and stupid programs. Is there really a need for publicly funded Black Studies programs, example given? There are no jobs in the economy in that field.

Private, for profit, schools like DeVrys and U. of Phoenix have removed a lot of the stupidity and make a nice income for the shareholders.

Is it really necessary for a university to pay 6 figures to a freaking philosophy professor? I don't think so, where else are they going to work

 

[dblack]

Do they get standard issue jack boots with the term of service?

Yup, we are indoctrinating them to think Libertarians are silly.

Oh, wait, most people think Libertarians are silly.

I've noticed. Liberals used to revere freedom. Now, they openly mock it.

 

[Unkotare]

Do they get standard issue jack boots with the term of service?

Yup, we are indoctrinating them to think Libertarians are silly.

Oh, wait, most people think Libertarians are silly.

I've noticed. Liberals used to revere freedom. ...it.

The democrats never have.

 

[JoeB131]

Spell check? Spell check would not have caught that one

You used 3 different words because they sounded like the one you were searching for.

Like I said that college degree didn't help you much did it?

Well, again, works on the assumption I am going to put this much effort into a message board. Most of the time I do... and I get paid for my writing... so there's that.

All that said, people usually resort to being Grammar Nazis when they don't have a point.

In this country the first universities were private not government run and we have state colleges so if you want to get a degree you have many options and you don't need me to pay your way

Here's the problem with that. The state colleges aren't even affordable at this point. Again, I go back to UIC, where I graduated from in 1985, where I only paid $1500 a year in tuition. Today, that same tuition costs $17,000, well out of the ability of kids to work for.

Back in the "Shitting in a chamberpot" days you guys pine for, when white people were in charge and the darkies knew their place, less than 1% of the population got college degrees. Mostly the very rich.

Even up until 1940, the number of Americans with college degrees was less than 5%. today it's closer to 30%.

 

[JoeB131]

I've noticed. Liberals used to revere freedom. Now, they openly mock it.

No, guy, the problem is, whenever a "Libertarian" whines about "Freedom", it usually means that a Koch Brother has told him that it's just terrible that the government keeps them from exploiting their workers and polluting the environment.

Me. I like the fact that when I go to work today, I'm not going to be killed in an industrial accident because that oppressive old OSHA has safety rules, and that I'm not going to keep over if I get water from a tap because the EPA keeps them from filling them with carcinogens...

Libertarians are like children... they love living in a civilized society, but they don't seem to get that civilization requires rules and law and order and taxes and agencies to enforce them.

Grow the fuck up.

 

[Blues Man]

Spell check? Spell check would not have caught that one

You used 3 different words because they sounded like the one you were searching for.

Like I said that college degree didn't help you much did it?

Well, again, works on the assumption I am going to put this much effort into a message board. Most of the time I do... and I get paid for my writing... so there's that.

All that said, people usually resort to being Grammar Nazis when they don't have a point.

In this country the first universities were private not government run and we have state colleges so if you want to get a degree you have many options and you don't need me to pay your way

Here's the problem with that. The state colleges aren't even affordable at this point. Again, I go back to UIC, where I graduated from in 1985, where I only paid $1500 a year in tuition. Today, that same tuition costs $17,000, well out of the ability of kids to work for.

Back in the "Shitting in a chamberpot" days you guys pine for, when white people were in charge and the darkies knew their place, less than 1% of the population got college degrees. Mostly the very rich.

Even up until 1940, the number of Americans with college degrees was less than 5%. today it's closer to 30%.

COme on

Wear with all as compared to wherewithal

You didn't know what the fuck you were writing because it wasn't a simple misspelling or a typo

And not all college degrees are of equal worth

Everyone knows that.

And FYI I don't pine for the old days and never have.

The fact is 40% of college freshmen do not finish a degree in 4 years so 40% of financial aid and guaranteed loans is wasted.

 

[Blues Man]

I've noticed. Liberals used to revere freedom. Now, they openly mock it.

No, guy, the problem is, whenever a "Libertarian" whines about "Freedom", it usually means that a Koch Brother has told him that it's just terrible that the government keeps them from exploiting their workers and polluting the environment.

Me. I like the fact that when I go to work today, I'm not going to be killed in an industrial accident because that oppressive old OSHA has safety rules, and that I'm not going to keep over if I get water from a tap because the EPA keeps them from filling them with carcinogens...

Libertarians are like children... they love living in a civilized society, but they don't seem to get that civilization requires rules and law and order and taxes and agencies to enforce them.

Grow the fuck up.

You said you work in the purchasing dept there is little or no chance you will be killed in an industrial accident sitting on your fat ass in your cubicle.