Employer healthcare plans should be abolished. Privatize it all the way.

[Ambivalent1]

I want a discount, cash/no paperwork option from my doctor. I'm willing to sigh a waiver promising not to sue him for malpractice if my cough turns out to be lung cancer.

"No paperwork" in what sense, exactly? Which paperwork are you objecting to?

Insurance reimbursement forms.

Those are indemnity plans. In true Group situations, hell in Individual situations there is no paperwork.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I want a discount, cash/no paperwork option from my doctor. I'm willing to sigh a waiver promising not to sue him for malpractice if my cough turns out to be lung cancer.

"No paperwork" in what sense, exactly? Which paperwork are you objecting to?

Insurance reimbursement forms.

Yeah, uh, that's not your doctor's thing to control and decide. That's up to your insurance company.

 

[Lesh]

Employer healthcare plans should be abolished. Privatize it all the way.

Cause nobody actually NEEDS healthcare...right?

 

[BlindBoo]

I want a discount, cash/no paperwork option from my doctor. I'm willing to sigh a waiver promising not to sue him for malpractice if my cough turns out to be lung cancer.

"No paperwork" in what sense, exactly? Which paperwork are you objecting to?

Insurance reimbursement forms.

Yeah, uh, that's not your doctor's thing to control and decide. That's up to your insurance company.

I want to pay the doctor a reasonable fee for an office visit with cash, no insurance.

 

[RandomPoster]

Why is it wrong to charge an unhealthy person 12 or even 20 times as much for healthcare as a healthy person if he is 12 or 20 times the risk? It is based on risk and potential expenses.

If you're an unhealthy person and you want to pay more for an individual plan than your employer
will charge you, you should definitely do that.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people. If you are unhealthy, that is not my fault. I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance and you should have to do the same or not get health insurance. If your premiums are 6,000 a month in a beautiful, free, unregulated market, why is that my problem? It's as bad as Obamacare.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people.

If you can get a cheaper, un-pooled rate, by getting a plan outside your employer, go for it.

I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance

No one is stopping you. Go price some policies and post your findings.

You are still paying because the employer is making a contribution to the plan and that reflects on wages.

Also, employers should be legally barred from getting involved in your healthcare, daycare, and should be legally barred from offering maternity leave as well.

I am on the fence with privatization of police, fire department, and ambulance service. If they know for a fact that you are not up to date on your bill, should they be allowed to let your house burn down, refuse to send a police car when intruders enter your home and are brutalizing your family, or refuse to send an ambulance and let you bleed to death if you get cut? That one is tough because you could make a case either way.

On one hand you could argue that it encourages slackers to let others pay and skate by without paying their fair share.

On the other hand, if they prevent your house from burning down, it prevents de-escalation of home values in the area even if you didn't pay for the service. If they send a police car even though you are not paid up, they can take criminals off the street and help others. Sending an ambulance if you cut yourself, however, I'm still thinking of the benefit of letting people abuse that and encouraging slackers.

Why should employers be barred from offering any damned benefit to entice employees that they choose to? What possible business is it of yours, or the government's, what sort of work/compensation agreement my employer and I enter into?

It is socialism for a company to spend its profits on anything other than salaries of employees, investment back into the business for maximizing future profits, and stockpiling capital. Companies should not be allowed to engage in "social" spending. It rots the fabric of society and breeds a weak nation.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Let's say one person is 40 years old and has a perfect driving record and pays 100 a month in car insurance. Another person is 23 years old, has been convicted of 6 DWIs and had 12 accidents in the last 5 years. He might pay 1200 a month even if he is the same age and drives the same model of car. I believe this is fair.

Let's say one person is 20 years old, single and in perfect health. He might pay 500 dollars a month with a non-regulated private insurer. Another person is 55 years old, morbidly obese, is married with 15 kids, and has a very expensive pre-existing condition. He goes to a non-regulated private insurer and they say they want 6,000 a month to insure him. How is this unfair?

Let's put them on the same plan and charge them both 3,250 a month. Heck, even 3,150 a month. How is this fair?

lol

Employer provided health insurance is private heath care.

Yes, most conservatives are truly this stupid.

 

[RandomPoster]

Let's say one person is 40 years old and has a perfect driving record and pays 100 a month in car insurance. Another person is 23 years old, has been convicted of 6 DWIs and had 12 accidents in the last 5 years. He might pay 1200 a month even if he is the same age and drives the same model of car. I believe this is fair.

Let's say one person is 20 years old, single and in perfect health. He might pay 500 dollars a month with a non-regulated private insurer. Another person is 55 years old, morbidly obese, is married with 15 kids, and has a very expensive pre-existing condition. He goes to a non-regulated private insurer and they say they want 6,000 a month to insure him. How is this unfair?

Let's put them on the same plan and charge them both 3,250 a month. Heck, even 3,150 a month. How is this fair?

lol

Employer provided health insurance is private heath care.

Yes, most conservatives are truly this stupid.

No. Companies should not be allowed to engage in shamefully socialistic behavior. They give you a paycheck and you get your own health insurance and it absolutely should be legal for a health insurance company to charge 12 times as much to one person as another based on their individual health characteristics. It is not my fault if your health insurance is 6,000 a month because you are unhealthy. That is your problem that you created and I should not have to subsidize it. Employers should be barred from offering daycare and maternity leave as well.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes health care is a right provided you pay for it, as is the right to have homeowners and auto insurance. Because someone chooses not to work or pay for their health insurance why is it the responsibility for everyone else that works to take care of you? What right is that?

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

You’re confusing health maintenance and health insurance – the two aren’t the same.

 

[RandomPoster]

Yes health care is a right provided you pay for it, as is the right to have homeowners and auto insurance. Because someone chooses not to work or pay for their health insurance why is it the responsibility for everyone else that works to take care of you? What right is that?

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

You’re confusing health maintenance and health insurance – the two aren’t the same.

Health insurance is a commodity to be bought and sold in a free market exactly like car insurance and insurance on your stamp collection.

 

[Lesh]

I want a discount, cash/no paperwork option from my doctor. I'm willing to sigh a waiver promising not to sue him for malpractice if my cough turns out to be lung cancer.

"No paperwork" in what sense, exactly? Which paperwork are you objecting to?

Insurance reimbursement forms.

Yeah, uh, that's not your doctor's thing to control and decide. That's up to your insurance company.

I want to pay the doctor a reasonable fee for an office visit with cash, no insurance.

You must have a lot of cash if you think you can pay for a heart bypass or cancer treatment with it..

 

[RandomPoster]

Not only are the healthiest people, the foundation of our country, being exploited, private industry, specifically insurance companies, are being brutalized by obscene regulations.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I want a discount, cash/no paperwork option from my doctor. I'm willing to sigh a waiver promising not to sue him for malpractice if my cough turns out to be lung cancer.

"No paperwork" in what sense, exactly? Which paperwork are you objecting to?

Insurance reimbursement forms.

Yeah, uh, that's not your doctor's thing to control and decide. That's up to your insurance company.

I want to pay the doctor a reasonable fee for an office visit with cash, no insurance.

Well, that would require a system like I described, where the actual consumer shops for care and insurance the way they shop for everything else, rather than having layers and layers of third-party payers between them and the doctor, and reams of government regulation and intervention.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you're an unhealthy person and you want to pay more for an individual plan than your employer
will charge you, you should definitely do that.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people. If you are unhealthy, that is not my fault. I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance and you should have to do the same or not get health insurance. If your premiums are 6,000 a month in a beautiful, free, unregulated market, why is that my problem? It's as bad as Obamacare.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people.

If you can get a cheaper, un-pooled rate, by getting a plan outside your employer, go for it.

I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance

No one is stopping you. Go price some policies and post your findings.

You are still paying because the employer is making a contribution to the plan and that reflects on wages.

Also, employers should be legally barred from getting involved in your healthcare, daycare, and should be legally barred from offering maternity leave as well.

I am on the fence with privatization of police, fire department, and ambulance service. If they know for a fact that you are not up to date on your bill, should they be allowed to let your house burn down, refuse to send a police car when intruders enter your home and are brutalizing your family, or refuse to send an ambulance and let you bleed to death if you get cut? That one is tough because you could make a case either way.

On one hand you could argue that it encourages slackers to let others pay and skate by without paying their fair share.

On the other hand, if they prevent your house from burning down, it prevents de-escalation of home values in the area even if you didn't pay for the service. If they send a police car even though you are not paid up, they can take criminals off the street and help others. Sending an ambulance if you cut yourself, however, I'm still thinking of the benefit of letting people abuse that and encouraging slackers.

Why should employers be barred from offering any damned benefit to entice employees that they choose to? What possible business is it of yours, or the government's, what sort of work/compensation agreement my employer and I enter into?

It is socialism for a company to spend its profits on anything other than salaries of employees, investment back into the business for maximizing future profits, and stockpiling capital. Companies should not be allowed to engage in "social" spending. It rots the fabric of society and breeds a weak nation.

Look up "socialism", because it does not mean what you think it means.

 

[RandomPoster]

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people. If you are unhealthy, that is not my fault. I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance and you should have to do the same or not get health insurance. If your premiums are 6,000 a month in a beautiful, free, unregulated market, why is that my problem? It's as bad as Obamacare.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people.

If you can get a cheaper, un-pooled rate, by getting a plan outside your employer, go for it.

I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance

No one is stopping you. Go price some policies and post your findings.

You are still paying because the employer is making a contribution to the plan and that reflects on wages.

Also, employers should be legally barred from getting involved in your healthcare, daycare, and should be legally barred from offering maternity leave as well.

I am on the fence with privatization of police, fire department, and ambulance service. If they know for a fact that you are not up to date on your bill, should they be allowed to let your house burn down, refuse to send a police car when intruders enter your home and are brutalizing your family, or refuse to send an ambulance and let you bleed to death if you get cut? That one is tough because you could make a case either way.

On one hand you could argue that it encourages slackers to let others pay and skate by without paying their fair share.

On the other hand, if they prevent your house from burning down, it prevents de-escalation of home values in the area even if you didn't pay for the service. If they send a police car even though you are not paid up, they can take criminals off the street and help others. Sending an ambulance if you cut yourself, however, I'm still thinking of the benefit of letting people abuse that and encouraging slackers.

Why should employers be barred from offering any damned benefit to entice employees that they choose to? What possible business is it of yours, or the government's, what sort of work/compensation agreement my employer and I enter into?

It is socialism for a company to spend its profits on anything other than salaries of employees, investment back into the business for maximizing future profits, and stockpiling capital. Companies should not be allowed to engage in "social" spending. It rots the fabric of society and breeds a weak nation.

Look up "socialism", because it does not mean what you think it means.

"a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Our law enforcement, fire departments, and ambulance services are socialism. However, I am still on the fence about whether or not to privatize them. I don't see how any free market capitalist can not at least struggle with that question.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You do know that the law says that you can only charge 3 times the amount you charge the youngster right?

Pretty sure what he's complaining about is that as things stand now, if they work for the same employer, they probably have the same health plan and the same premium because the kid doesn't have a choice. It's the employer who decides what the plan will be, not the person being insured.

I can think of a few things I would like about a system where we purchase our healthcare and our health insurance the way we shop for and purchase other things. I would like insurance companies and health providers to have to compete for the business of the actual patients. I think we would be seeing an explosion of innovative new options, pricing, payment plans, etc. in no time.

We would...but the politicians and insurance companies have set up monopolies in states....more competition would mean cheaper and better healthcare, and more innovation with medicine......but that cuts the democrats out of the loop and they won't stand for that.

the only way to open all states to all companies is for all states to have the exact same standards and requirements. the only way to do that is for the Fed Govt to force them to comply. Only a statist would argue for such things

No.....you simply allow the insurance companies to offer whatever plans they feel will make them money...the competition for customer dollars will do the rest....including lowering cost, increasing quality...just like your cell phone and flat screen television...

Exactly, stop over-regulating it. The government messes up far more than they help.

Nonsense.

This is as naïve as it is wrongheaded.

A ‘free market’ will in no manner provide Americans access to affordable healthcare.

 

[RandomPoster]

Pretty sure what he's complaining about is that as things stand now, if they work for the same employer, they probably have the same health plan and the same premium because the kid doesn't have a choice. It's the employer who decides what the plan will be, not the person being insured.

I can think of a few things I would like about a system where we purchase our healthcare and our health insurance the way we shop for and purchase other things. I would like insurance companies and health providers to have to compete for the business of the actual patients. I think we would be seeing an explosion of innovative new options, pricing, payment plans, etc. in no time.

We would...but the politicians and insurance companies have set up monopolies in states....more competition would mean cheaper and better healthcare, and more innovation with medicine......but that cuts the democrats out of the loop and they won't stand for that.

the only way to open all states to all companies is for all states to have the exact same standards and requirements. the only way to do that is for the Fed Govt to force them to comply. Only a statist would argue for such things

No.....you simply allow the insurance companies to offer whatever plans they feel will make them money...the competition for customer dollars will do the rest....including lowering cost, increasing quality...just like your cell phone and flat screen television...

Exactly, stop over-regulating it. The government messes up far more than they help.

Nonsense.

This is as naïve as it is wrongheaded.

A ‘free market’ will in no manner provide Americans access to affordable healthcare.

Some people would be better off and some would be worse off, like everything else in life. We are not all the same.

 

[forkup]

Why is it wrong to charge an unhealthy person 12 or even 20 times as much for healthcare as a healthy person if he is 12 or 20 times the risk? It is based on risk and potential expenses.

Because insurance doesn't work on a case to case bases. It works on averages. Your 20 year old will be 55 year old eventually and would want and need insurance at that time.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Let's say one person is 40 years old and has a perfect driving record and pays 100 a month in car insurance. Another person is 23 years old, has been convicted of 6 DWIs and had 12 accidents in the last 5 years. He might pay 1200 a month even if he is the same age and drives the same model of car. I believe this is fair.

Let's say one person is 20 years old, single and in perfect health. He might pay 500 dollars a month with a non-regulated private insurer. Another person is 55 years old, morbidly obese, is married with 15 kids, and has a very expensive pre-existing condition. He goes to a non-regulated private insurer and they say they want 6,000 a month to insure him. How is this unfair?

Let's put them on the same plan and charge them both 3,250 a month. Heck, even 3,150 a month. How is this fair?

you do know thats not how the real world works with car insurance right????

it also goes by credit score

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why is it wrong to charge an unhealthy person 12 or even 20 times as much for healthcare as a healthy person if he is 12 or 20 times the risk? It is based on risk and potential expenses.

Because insurance doesn't work on a case to case bases. It works on averages. Your 20 year old will be 55 year old eventually and would want and need insurance at that time.

why would he?

oh yea liberals are always fucking sick in the body and sick in the head

 

[forkup]

Why is it wrong to charge an unhealthy person 12 or even 20 times as much for healthcare as a healthy person if he is 12 or 20 times the risk? It is based on risk and potential expenses.

Because insurance doesn't work on a case to case bases. It works on averages. Your 20 year old will be 55 year old eventually and would want and need insurance at that time.

why would he?

oh yea liberals are always fucking sick in the body and sick in the head

Is that all you have? This OP is trying to make insurance something that would not be affordable for most elderly. In exchange for making it cheap for the young. I think they made a movie about this kind of thinking. Check it out it's called Soylent Green, a classic.