Ending DACA will see the true beginning of Trump's downward economic spiral

[JoeB131]

DACA is Un-Constitutional.

After Obama himself declared he could not change immigration policy / laws by himself because that was not within his Constitutional authority to do, he did so by EO anyway.

Liberals have given great EMOTIONAL arguments for preserving the Constitutional violating Obama legacy program, but they can't make a CONSTITUTIONAL, LEGAL argument to do so.

On Fox News yesterday, libtard Geraldi Rivera spoke for all the snowflakes out there when he passionately, emotionally declared, "If letting this program fade out and forcing those benefitting from DACA right now means kids who are here illegally for no fault of their own have to leave the country THEN TO HELL WITH THE CONSTITUTION."

Obama, Geraldo, Antifa all prove liberals have no respect for the Constitution and Rule of Law.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

There's really no good reason to end DACA. ICE can't keep up with the illegals aliens we actually want to get rid of, these are the people we might actually want to keep.

Now, the real problem is, we didn't reform immigration 10 years ago when George W. Bush said this was a problem that needed to be addressed.

Yes, when George W. Bush is a voice of reason on something, you know that the system has gone nuts.

These DACA people didn't choose to come here, their parents brought them. They grew up as Americans, not Mexicans or others. Maybe what Obama did wasn't legal, but it was the right thing to do.

Sadly, Trump is only interested in pleasing the racists who elected him, who won't get any benefit from abusing these people.

 

[blastoff]

All we have to do is create a bunch of idiotic jobs that fit with the many useless majors colleges and universities offer degrees in.

You might be the best underwater basket weaver at your institution but if there's no demand for your skills in the job market, tough shit.

 

[easyt65]

A 'Must Read' for everyone to educate themselves on the most recent liberal maufactured crisis in defense of an Un-Constitutional Obama Legacy Program:

About those "massive job losses" if DACA ends - Hot Air

 

[easyt65]

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

It is the law of the land.

There are ways to LEGALLY make DACA happen. Obama did not folliw those legal methods. Instead he violated the Constitution to impose his will.

Paul Ryan and other Republicans are reportedly scrambling to LEAGALLY pass legislation that would replace Obama's ILLEGAL EO. If they do so, more power to them and 'hip hip hooray'.
(- Of course it will be another demonstration of how, when they want to, Congress can quickly pass legislation. Too bad it always seems to be in helping everyone else except the legal citizens of the United States...)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Keep the hardworking, Christian, family oriented Illegals, deport Soros and Antifa

 

[ColonelAngus]

No, this was Obama stupid idea, and Trump has the same pen and phone that Obama's had and elections have consequences.

Sorry Barry....your legacy is shit.

again, it's going to look pretty bad when ICE starts pulling mothers out of their homes away from their children.

But Trump is dumb enough to do it.

You don't understand the DACA EO and how it might be overturned.

Maybe read up on it so you don't look more stupid.

Here you go.

Consideration of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)

 

[deanrd]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

To offer a counterpoint...

Tell my oldest son that. He'll laugh you into the next state. He graduated from a "posh" school at 21 with a bachelor's degree and commenced working three weeks later for ~$120K/year and was given a $15K signing bonus.

What did his degree cost him?

• Time spent thinking about, tailoring and then applying the advice he got from me, his mentors, his counselors, etc.
• Time spent exploring who he is and wants to be, what he wants out of life, and then setting about making it happen.
• Time spent studying (middle and high school + college), instead of "cavorting."
• Time spent doing internships for part of his summers, instead of traveling and "cavorting."
• Time spent traveling the world and "cavorting" so as to learn about more than the little world in which he grew up.

Might there in his starting cohort be kids who went to less pricey schools? There almost certainly are such kids. That neither makes my kid's pricey degree less "worth it" nor their less dear one more "worth it." Insofar as they are all pleased with the outcome, they all are "worth it."

From the video you posted:

Mentality that corporations won't hire one without a degree

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

A high school senior having $30K in savings who buys physical silver will likely have enough money to buy the median U.S. home four years from now. (~29:40)

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

The U.S. now has hundreds of college preparatory high schools that a cost of about $25K/year are supposed to increase students' changes of getting into a top tier college.

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

From about the time they enter the sixth grade, American kids are taught that they must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college. The better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into. Furthermore, if they get into a great college and get their degree, any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate. After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream."

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

No school today teaches students the knowledge needed to start a business, invent their own product, or how to use the Internet and other free tools to become educated without attending college. (~1:40)

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Not only that, not everyone needs to work at a corporation. 87% of lost manufacturing jobs were automated. Most of the companies that put in automation systems are big. Automation doesn't pay if you are only making hundreds.

I know from working at a company that supported the Aerospace and Automotive industries. Being a niche company, it will never grow above a certain size and only sells about 30 units a month. The units cost 150 grand each and half the business is education and maintenance. They will never automate.

When the company was family owned, people in engineering, sales people and people all through the company were family friends. The Vice President of HR never finished High School and went to school with the owner.

The three kids, all with college degrees, took over the company and right away started retiring dads "friends". You had to have a degree to work in sales, marketing, engineering and to be in upper management positions.

The rule was relaxed for salesmen because of their particular skillset. To be a good salesman, you need to look sharp, know the product and people need to trust you and want to be friends with you right off. I never met a good salesman I didn't like. I also learned to look passed their friendliness after dealing with so many vendors.

So how did I get in engineering? I worked on the assembly line, went to night school on the GI bill and collected money from the company for going. It was hard. Co-workers and middle management threatened me and told me to quit. They said I would never make it. And pretty much made my life hell. But it was worth it.

Go back to school in your 20's and you will be surprised how different it is. You are older. More disciplined. School so hard at 16 was way, way easier at 26. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy, nothing of value ever is. But it was well worth it.

 

[ColonelAngus]

People should communicate to their elected officials that they want DACA to be a permanent law voted on by congress.

If they don't do what you want, vote them out.

It seems that Progs don't understand democracy at all.

 

[deanrd]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

To offer a counterpoint...

Tell my oldest son that. He'll laugh you into the next state. He graduated from a "posh" school at 21 with a bachelor's degree and commenced working three weeks later for ~$120K/year and was given a $15K signing bonus.

What did his degree cost him?

• Time spent thinking about, tailoring and then applying the advice he got from me, his mentors, his counselors, etc.
• Time spent exploring who he is and wants to be, what he wants out of life, and then setting about making it happen.
• Time spent studying (middle and high school + college), instead of "cavorting."
• Time spent doing internships for part of his summers, instead of traveling and "cavorting."
• Time spent traveling the world and "cavorting" so as to learn about more than the little world in which he grew up.

Might there in his starting cohort be kids who went to less pricey schools? There almost certainly are such kids. That neither makes my kid's pricey degree less "worth it" nor their less dear one more "worth it." Insofar as they are all pleased with the outcome, they all are "worth it."

From the video you posted:

Mentality that corporations won't hire one without a degree

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

A high school senior having $30K in savings who buys physical silver will likely have enough money to buy the median U.S. home four years from now. (~29:40)

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

The U.S. now has hundreds of college preparatory high schools that a cost of about $25K/year are supposed to increase students' changes of getting into a top tier college.

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

From about the time they enter the sixth grade, American kids are taught that they must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college. The better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into. Furthermore, if they get into a great college and get their degree, any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate. After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream."

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

No school today teaches students the knowledge needed to start a business, invent their own product, or how to use the Internet and other free tools to become educated without attending college. (~1:40)

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Sigh . . . . I don't think we are going to agree on this, as you went into this with the attitude of "debunking" the whole thing. Eh? You didn't even watching the whole thing, you went in to cherry pick segments, as such, you just do not comprehend the big picture, so really, I don't see much point in refuting any of what you say, b/c you are living in a fantasy land.

Your belief is that compulsory education is necessary and good, for everyone, and should be imposed, upon everyone. I'm not saying that college isn't right for some, maybe it is. Maybe it is right for the dull of imagination. Maybe it is right for those that aren't self-starters. Maybe it is right of those who need to be told what to do. But for those in whose veins runs the spirit of American entrepreneurship and the dreams of success, not being a slave to others, it just might not be right. Sometimes there are other paths to success.

On the other hand, I will give you, that if you want to be a successful slave, a wage slave, college is great. But if you really want to be successful, and have a free mind, if you are really driven. . . Nothing can hold you back, that is the point. Schooling is typically only a hindrance. Self-starters get what education they need, and pieces of paper only when foolish people demand them.

8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
"1. Steve Jobs

<snip>
2. Richard Branson

<snip>
3. Dave Thomas

<snip>
4. David Green

<snip>

5. Larry Ellison

<snip>

6. Kevin Rose

<snip>

7. Michael Dell

<snip>

8. Rachael Ray

<snip>

Final thoughts
The moral of the story? A driven personality always finds a way. An education can either be a stepping stone or a road block on the path to achievement. If education proves to be an obstacle, those with an entrepreneurial spirit will push it aside and go their own chosen route.

Today, in the information age, there are many ways to learn and develop the skills you need to become a successful entrepreneur. Homeschooling may be a worthwhile option for many, especially if you have the desire to learn at your own pace, or if you have kids that are ambitious and independent thinkers."


(Just a few excerpts)
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree

"Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, U.S. president. Finished one year of formal schooling, self-taught himself trigonometry, and read Blackstone on his own to become a lawyer.

Andrew Jackson, U.S. president, general, attorney, judge, congressman. Home-schooled. Became a practicing attorney by the age of 35 – without a formal education.

Benjamin Franklin, inventor, scientist, author, entrepreneur. Primarily home-schooled.

Debbi Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Chocolate Chippery. Later renamed, franchised, then sold Mrs. Field’s Cookies.

Frank Lloyd Wright, the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Never attended high school.

George Eastman, multimillionaire inventor, Kodak founder. Dropped out of high school.

H. Wayne Huizenga, founder of WMX garbage company, helped build Blockbuster video chain. Joined the Army out of high school, and later went to college only to drop out during his first year.

James Cameron, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Dropped out of college.

Kemmons Wilson, multimillionaire, founder of Holiday Inn. High school dropout.

Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s. Dropped out of high school.

Rush Limbaugh, multi-millionaire media mogul, radio talk show host. Dropped out of college.

Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, phonograph, and more. Primarily home-schooled, then joined the railroad when he was only 12.

W. Clement Stone, multimillionaire insurance man, author, founder of Success magazine. Dropped out of elementary school. Later attended high school, graduating. Attended but did not finish college.

Walt Disney, founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16."

Less than two dozen people and most over a hundred years ago.
And no one teaches themselves trigonometry unless someone else taught them math previously.

I wonder how many of those people started out earning their money the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and John McCain?

Anyone who says education is not needed is both delusional and insane.

Self taught is still taught. And I have never met a "self taught" person who was actually self taught. They got their foundation from someone. Someone showed them what the letter "a" is and how it's followed by "b". No one "just knows".

I love the example of Steve Jobs. Did he actually design the first Apple or was it designed by Steve Wozniak, Bill Fernandez, people who had technical educations and worked at companies like Hewlett-Packard?

Jobs was a good salesman who relied on other people's degrees. Oop! Who knew?

 

[deanrd]

People should communicate to their elected officials that they want DACA to be a permanent law voted on by congress.

If they don't do what you want, vote them out.

It seems that Progs don't understand democracy at all.

Republicans don't believe in democracy. If they did, they trust elections and not practice voter suppression. Duh!

 

[miketx]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

Nonsense. They don't have any right to be here. Noted that you love all bad things for the USA.

 

[deanrd]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

Nonsense. They don't have any right to be here. Noted that you love all bad things for the USA.

Educated people, nurses, engineers, policemen, soldiers, all bad for the US.

I bet you love Russia and miss Germany from the 30's and 40's. Am I right?

 

[federalist50]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

Where do you get your information from? CNN, MSNBC?

 

[usmbguest5318]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

To offer a counterpoint...

Tell my oldest son that. He'll laugh you into the next state. He graduated from a "posh" school at 21 with a bachelor's degree and commenced working three weeks later for ~$120K/year and was given a $15K signing bonus.

What did his degree cost him?

• Time spent thinking about, tailoring and then applying the advice he got from me, his mentors, his counselors, etc.
• Time spent exploring who he is and wants to be, what he wants out of life, and then setting about making it happen.
• Time spent studying (middle and high school + college), instead of "cavorting."
• Time spent doing internships for part of his summers, instead of traveling and "cavorting."
• Time spent traveling the world and "cavorting" so as to learn about more than the little world in which he grew up.

Might there in his starting cohort be kids who went to less pricey schools? There almost certainly are such kids. That neither makes my kid's pricey degree less "worth it" nor their less dear one more "worth it." Insofar as they are all pleased with the outcome, they all are "worth it."

From the video you posted:

Mentality that corporations won't hire one without a degree

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

A high school senior having $30K in savings who buys physical silver will likely have enough money to buy the median U.S. home four years from now. (~29:40)

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

The U.S. now has hundreds of college preparatory high schools that a cost of about $25K/year are supposed to increase students' changes of getting into a top tier college.

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

From about the time they enter the sixth grade, American kids are taught that they must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college. The better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into. Furthermore, if they get into a great college and get their degree, any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate. After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream."

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

No school today teaches students the knowledge needed to start a business, invent their own product, or how to use the Internet and other free tools to become educated without attending college. (~1:40)

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Not only that, not everyone needs to work at a corporation. 87% of lost manufacturing jobs were automated. Most of the companies that put in automation systems are big. Automation doesn't pay if you are only making hundreds.

I know from working at a company that supported the Aerospace and Automotive industries. Being a niche company, it will never grow above a certain size and only sells about 30 units a month. The units cost 150 grand each and half the business is education and maintenance. They will never automate.

When the company was family owned, people in engineering, sales people and people all through the company were family friends. The Vice President of HR never finished High School and went to school with the owner.

The three kids, all with college degrees, took over the company and right away started retiring dads "friends". You had to have a degree to work in sales, marketing, engineering and to be in upper management positions.

The rule was relaxed for salesmen because of their particular skillset. To be a good salesman, you need to look sharp, know the product and people need to trust you and want to be friends with you right off. I never met a good salesman I didn't like. I also learned to look passed their friendliness after dealing with so many vendors.

So how did I get in engineering? I worked on the assembly line, went to night school on the GI bill and collected money from the company for going. It was hard. Co-workers and middle management threatened me and told me to quit. They said I would never make it. And pretty much made my life hell. But it was worth it.

Go back to school in your 20's and you will be surprised how different it is. You are older. More disciplined. School so hard at 16 was way, way easier at 26. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy, nothing of value ever is. But it was well worth it.

Go back to school in your 20's and you will be surprised how different it is. You are older. More disciplined. School so hard at 16 was way, way easier at 26. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy, nothing of value ever is.

I know exactly what you mean by that, albeit from the "other side of the table," that of being an instructor of undergrads, some of whom were mid-to-late twenty-somethings. The aplomb with which they sailed through the learning process was notably different.

I attributed it to their having after high school discovered precisely what they want to do and realizing it requires the degree they're pursuing gave them a perspective that many younger kids hadn't yet developed. For example, one of my "older" students in econ,in response to inquiry about whether he intended to be an econ major and encouragement to pursue a career in economics, informed me that he was taking the class because he needed a social science elective and just figured economics would be interesting.

That class was among the several foundational econ classes that were "weeders" for econ and business majors. He said he picked it because the version for non-econ/non-business majors didn't fit his schedule.


Off topic note to people who haven't gone to college:

• A "weeder" class is one whereof though the content is the same as for a non-weeder class on the same topic, the level of demonstrated comprehension necessary to earn an A or B is much higher than the non-weeder version. They're not designed to fail people -- it's not terribly hard to get a C in a weeder class -- they are designed to confirm, for both the student and the department, one's resolve for mastering the subject matter.
  
  In the classes I taught, we accomplished that using several techniques, two of which are:
  • Including unaided recall and integrative critical thinking essay and short answer questions on tests. Such an essay question might provide a short set of facts and ask the student whether they would undertake a protectionist or free trade economic policy approach and call them to defend their position. There was no "right" answer to the top level choice the student made; which approach they chose was of no matter. What mattered was that the student aptly applied and explained the principles of economics in defending their choice and identifying and accounting for the downsides of their choice, which basically meant showing that they had equal mastery of the "other side of the coin" as they did of the "side" the preferred.
    
    Such questions allow students to demonstrate, and instructors to assess, not only explicit mastery of multiple topical concepts, but also mastery of core skills such as English composition/communication and math (algebra and calculus in the "weeder" I taught). Tests included enough such questions that only the most committed and/or adept students would get As or Bs, but not so many of them that students who, for whatever reason, couldn't drop the class could nonetheless get a C and thereby earn credit for it.
  • Most lectures (2 of 3 each week) focused on the applications and implications of economic concepts. For instance, in covering trade, rather than lecturing on the positive aspects of trade, I'd discuss the multiple normative considerations of a given trade policy. In other words, rather than specifically instructing the students on how to analyze a given situation/policy/action, my lecture discussed the consequences of undertaking a given action and the impact of favoring, say, protectionism over free trade and vice versa.
    
    If the lecture sounds like the sort thing I described as the nature of the answer students were called to give for the essay question example, that's good, because that's what it was. The challenge, which the top students rise to, is to realize that the lecture reflected an application of corresponding chapter in the textbook, one that was full of charts, graphs, and equations. Students who needed explicit help with the charts, graphs and equations needed to show up at my or another instructor's office hours to get that. Why? Because the course had a math prerequisite; they weren't supposed to need me to teach them the math used in the course.

What students excel in such course? The ones who truly mastered the prerequisite subject(s). They do because they only have to learn the economics, not the econ and the prerequisite skills. Almost without fail:

• A students --> began the course being strong in math and English composition and comprehension and/or have very strong study skills.
• B students --> began the course being strong in math or English, more often math, not always, and have strong study skills.
• C students --> began the course being so-so in math and English composition and comprehension and/or have so-so study skills.

 

[usmbguest5318]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

To offer a counterpoint...

Tell my oldest son that. He'll laugh you into the next state. He graduated from a "posh" school at 21 with a bachelor's degree and commenced working three weeks later for ~$120K/year and was given a $15K signing bonus.

What did his degree cost him?

• Time spent thinking about, tailoring and then applying the advice he got from me, his mentors, his counselors, etc.
• Time spent exploring who he is and wants to be, what he wants out of life, and then setting about making it happen.
• Time spent studying (middle and high school + college), instead of "cavorting."
• Time spent doing internships for part of his summers, instead of traveling and "cavorting."
• Time spent traveling the world and "cavorting" so as to learn about more than the little world in which he grew up.

Might there in his starting cohort be kids who went to less pricey schools? There almost certainly are such kids. That neither makes my kid's pricey degree less "worth it" nor their less dear one more "worth it." Insofar as they are all pleased with the outcome, they all are "worth it."

From the video you posted:

Mentality that corporations won't hire one without a degree

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

A high school senior having $30K in savings who buys physical silver will likely have enough money to buy the median U.S. home four years from now. (~29:40)

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

The U.S. now has hundreds of college preparatory high schools that a cost of about $25K/year are supposed to increase students' changes of getting into a top tier college.

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

From about the time they enter the sixth grade, American kids are taught that they must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college. The better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into. Furthermore, if they get into a great college and get their degree, any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate. After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream."

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

No school today teaches students the knowledge needed to start a business, invent their own product, or how to use the Internet and other free tools to become educated without attending college. (~1:40)

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Sigh . . . . I don't think we are going to agree on this, as you went into this with the attitude of "debunking" the whole thing. Eh? You didn't even watching the whole thing, you went in to cherry pick segments, as such, you just do not comprehend the big picture, so really, I don't see much point in refuting any of what you say, b/c you are living in a fantasy land.

Your belief is that compulsory education is necessary and good, for everyone, and should be imposed, upon everyone. I'm not saying that college isn't right for some, maybe it is. Maybe it is right for the dull of imagination. Maybe it is right for those that aren't self-starters. Maybe it is right of those who need to be told what to do. But for those in whose veins runs the spirit of American entrepreneurship and the dreams of success, not being a slave to others, it just might not be right. Sometimes there are other paths to success.

On the other hand, I will give you, that if you want to be a successful slave, a wage slave, college is great. But if you really want to be successful, and have a free mind, if you are really driven. . . Nothing can hold you back, that is the point. Schooling is typically only a hindrance. Self-starters get what education they need, and pieces of paper only when foolish people demand them.

8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
"1. Steve Jobs

<snip>
2. Richard Branson

<snip>
3. Dave Thomas

<snip>
4. David Green

<snip>

5. Larry Ellison

<snip>

6. Kevin Rose

<snip>

7. Michael Dell

<snip>

8. Rachael Ray

<snip>

Final thoughts
The moral of the story? A driven personality always finds a way. An education can either be a stepping stone or a road block on the path to achievement. If education proves to be an obstacle, those with an entrepreneurial spirit will push it aside and go their own chosen route.

Today, in the information age, there are many ways to learn and develop the skills you need to become a successful entrepreneur. Homeschooling may be a worthwhile option for many, especially if you have the desire to learn at your own pace, or if you have kids that are ambitious and independent thinkers."


(Just a few excerpts)
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree

"Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, U.S. president. Finished one year of formal schooling, self-taught himself trigonometry, and read Blackstone on his own to become a lawyer.

Andrew Jackson, U.S. president, general, attorney, judge, congressman. Home-schooled. Became a practicing attorney by the age of 35 – without a formal education.

Benjamin Franklin, inventor, scientist, author, entrepreneur. Primarily home-schooled.

Debbi Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Chocolate Chippery. Later renamed, franchised, then sold Mrs. Field’s Cookies.

Frank Lloyd Wright, the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Never attended high school.

George Eastman, multimillionaire inventor, Kodak founder. Dropped out of high school.

H. Wayne Huizenga, founder of WMX garbage company, helped build Blockbuster video chain. Joined the Army out of high school, and later went to college only to drop out during his first year.

James Cameron, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Dropped out of college.

Kemmons Wilson, multimillionaire, founder of Holiday Inn. High school dropout.

Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s. Dropped out of high school.

Rush Limbaugh, multi-millionaire media mogul, radio talk show host. Dropped out of college.

Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, phonograph, and more. Primarily home-schooled, then joined the railroad when he was only 12.

W. Clement Stone, multimillionaire insurance man, author, founder of Success magazine. Dropped out of elementary school. Later attended high school, graduating. Attended but did not finish college.

Walt Disney, founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16."

Less than two dozen people and most over a hundred years ago.
And no one teaches themselves trigonometry unless someone else taught them math previously.

I wonder how many of those people started out earning their money the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and John McCain?

Anyone who says education is not needed is both delusional and insane.

Self taught is still taught. And I have never met a "self taught" person who was actually self taught. They got their foundation from someone. Someone showed them what the letter "a" is and how it's followed by "b". No one "just knows".

I love the example of Steve Jobs. Did he actually design the first Apple or was it designed by Steve Wozniak, Bill Fernandez, people who had technical educations and worked at companies like Hewlett-Packard?

Jobs was a good salesman who relied on other people's degrees. Oop! Who knew?

TY for saying that. You hit the key themes of what was to be Part II of my response to MisterBeale's post.

 

[MisterBeale]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

To offer a counterpoint...

Tell my oldest son that. He'll laugh you into the next state. He graduated from a "posh" school at 21 with a bachelor's degree and commenced working three weeks later for ~$120K/year and was given a $15K signing bonus.

What did his degree cost him?

• Time spent thinking about, tailoring and then applying the advice he got from me, his mentors, his counselors, etc.
• Time spent exploring who he is and wants to be, what he wants out of life, and then setting about making it happen.
• Time spent studying (middle and high school + college), instead of "cavorting."
• Time spent doing internships for part of his summers, instead of traveling and "cavorting."
• Time spent traveling the world and "cavorting" so as to learn about more than the little world in which he grew up.

Might there in his starting cohort be kids who went to less pricey schools? There almost certainly are such kids. That neither makes my kid's pricey degree less "worth it" nor their less dear one more "worth it." Insofar as they are all pleased with the outcome, they all are "worth it."

From the video you posted:

Mentality that corporations won't hire one without a degree

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

A high school senior having $30K in savings who buys physical silver will likely have enough money to buy the median U.S. home four years from now. (~29:40)

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

The U.S. now has hundreds of college preparatory high schools that a cost of about $25K/year are supposed to increase students' changes of getting into a top tier college.

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

From about the time they enter the sixth grade, American kids are taught that they must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college. The better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into. Furthermore, if they get into a great college and get their degree, any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate. After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream."

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

No school today teaches students the knowledge needed to start a business, invent their own product, or how to use the Internet and other free tools to become educated without attending college. (~1:40)

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Sigh . . . . I don't think we are going to agree on this, as you went into this with the attitude of "debunking" the whole thing. Eh? You didn't even watching the whole thing, you went in to cherry pick segments, as such, you just do not comprehend the big picture, so really, I don't see much point in refuting any of what you say, b/c you are living in a fantasy land.

Your belief is that compulsory education is necessary and good, for everyone, and should be imposed, upon everyone. I'm not saying that college isn't right for some, maybe it is. Maybe it is right for the dull of imagination. Maybe it is right for those that aren't self-starters. Maybe it is right of those who need to be told what to do. But for those in whose veins runs the spirit of American entrepreneurship and the dreams of success, not being a slave to others, it just might not be right. Sometimes there are other paths to success.

On the other hand, I will give you, that if you want to be a successful slave, a wage slave, college is great. But if you really want to be successful, and have a free mind, if you are really driven. . . Nothing can hold you back, that is the point. Schooling is typically only a hindrance. Self-starters get what education they need, and pieces of paper only when foolish people demand them.

8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
"1. Steve Jobs

<snip>
2. Richard Branson

<snip>
3. Dave Thomas

<snip>
4. David Green

<snip>

5. Larry Ellison

<snip>

6. Kevin Rose

<snip>

7. Michael Dell

<snip>

8. Rachael Ray

<snip>

Final thoughts
The moral of the story? A driven personality always finds a way. An education can either be a stepping stone or a road block on the path to achievement. If education proves to be an obstacle, those with an entrepreneurial spirit will push it aside and go their own chosen route.

Today, in the information age, there are many ways to learn and develop the skills you need to become a successful entrepreneur. Homeschooling may be a worthwhile option for many, especially if you have the desire to learn at your own pace, or if you have kids that are ambitious and independent thinkers."


(Just a few excerpts)
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree

"Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, U.S. president. Finished one year of formal schooling, self-taught himself trigonometry, and read Blackstone on his own to become a lawyer.

Andrew Jackson, U.S. president, general, attorney, judge, congressman. Home-schooled. Became a practicing attorney by the age of 35 – without a formal education.

Benjamin Franklin, inventor, scientist, author, entrepreneur. Primarily home-schooled.

Debbi Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Chocolate Chippery. Later renamed, franchised, then sold Mrs. Field’s Cookies.

Frank Lloyd Wright, the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Never attended high school.

George Eastman, multimillionaire inventor, Kodak founder. Dropped out of high school.

H. Wayne Huizenga, founder of WMX garbage company, helped build Blockbuster video chain. Joined the Army out of high school, and later went to college only to drop out during his first year.

James Cameron, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Dropped out of college.

Kemmons Wilson, multimillionaire, founder of Holiday Inn. High school dropout.

Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s. Dropped out of high school.

Rush Limbaugh, multi-millionaire media mogul, radio talk show host. Dropped out of college.

Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, phonograph, and more. Primarily home-schooled, then joined the railroad when he was only 12.

W. Clement Stone, multimillionaire insurance man, author, founder of Success magazine. Dropped out of elementary school. Later attended high school, graduating. Attended but did not finish college.

Walt Disney, founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16."

Less than two dozen people and most over a hundred years ago.
And no one teaches themselves trigonometry unless someone else taught them math previously.

I wonder how many of those people started out earning their money the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and John McCain?

Anyone who says education is not needed is both delusional and insane.

Self taught is still taught. And I have never met a "self taught" person who was actually self taught. They got their foundation from someone. Someone showed them what the letter "a" is and how it's followed by "b". No one "just knows".

I love the example of Steve Jobs. Did he actually design the first Apple or was it designed by Steve Wozniak, Bill Fernandez, people who had technical educations and worked at companies like Hewlett-Packard?

Jobs was a good salesman who relied on other people's degrees. Oop! Who knew?

TY for saying that. You hit the key themes of what was to be Part II of my response to MisterBeale's post.

Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point. Dolts, both of you. Jobs, Wozniak, and Fernandez, that is what I am getting at. For true success, University is just an illusion.

Self-taught might be still taught, but that is not what we are discussing, we are discussing college and University. I am not arguing against being educated, I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed, which clearly, some folks in this thread are.

You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable, it isn't. KSA's and experience that make them valuable.

There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.

 

[RodISHI]

Keep the hardworking, Christian, family oriented Illegals, deport Soros and Antifa

Deport them all or you will continue to let people think that its fine and dandy to accept illegal activities. After watching some of the videos online how these LaRaza and the cartel supported punks are supporting or in Antifa brag about how they will be taking over the USA I am even more firm on thinking that there needs to be laws on the books for there cannot be an automatic anchor baby citizenship too. If they are becoming legislators, politicians and judges, etc.... who support "fundamental change" of our constitution, rights and laws they need to go back to their parents original countries. Enforce the laws.

 

[frigidweirdo]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

The difference between universities in the US and other countries is plain.

In the US you have massive amounts spent on football and basketball scholarships, you have lovely stadia, you have lots of golf carts and sports facilities.

Everywhere else you have buildings and university professors teaching people.

Penn State University

Swansea University in Wales

 

[JoeB131]

It is the law of the land.

There are ways to LEGALLY make DACA happen. Obama did not folliw those legal methods. Instead he violated the Constitution to impose his will.

Or he used the powers that he had as the executive to make a judgement call how to enforce existing law. We aren't going to waste our time on the Dreamers because THEY aren't the problem.

Paul Ryan and other Republicans are reportedly scrambling to LEAGALLY pass legislation that would replace Obama's ILLEGAL EO. If they do so, more power to them and 'hip hip hooray'.
(- Of course it will be another demonstration of how, when they want to, Congress can quickly pass legislation. Too bad it always seems to be in helping everyone else except the legal citizens of the United States...)

so let me get this straight... helping people is an abuse of power, but stripping health coverage from 23 million Americans is "helping" them? How does that work?

 

[RodISHI]

It is the law of the land.

There are ways to LEGALLY make DACA happen. Obama did not folliw those legal methods. Instead he violated the Constitution to impose his will.

Or he used the powers that he had as the executive to make a judgement call how to enforce existing law. We aren't going to waste our time on the Dreamers because THEY aren't the problem.

Paul Ryan and other Republicans are reportedly scrambling to LEAGALLY pass legislation that would replace Obama's ILLEGAL EO. If they do so, more power to them and 'hip hip hooray'.
(- Of course it will be another demonstration of how, when they want to, Congress can quickly pass legislation. Too bad it always seems to be in helping everyone else except the legal citizens of the United States...)

so let me get this straight... helping people is an abuse of power, but stripping health coverage from 23 million Americans is "helping" them? How does that work?

If laws are not enforced they are worthless we may as well go back to the old west style shoot'm ups to get rid of problem cases.