Ending DACA will see the true beginning of Trump's downward economic spiral

[SmokeALib]

Oh yes, because America didn't prosper until 2012.

Fucking Rdean strikes again and out stupids himself.

It seems he changed his screen name.
Wonder why?

 

[Snouter]

Barry Hussaine Obama's illegal Executive Order that invented this DACA bullshit needs to be tossed out. It is that simple. No reason for anti-White people to get all butthurt about another Obama failure. Pardoning non-White criminals by the hundreds of thousands as the Kenyan attempted to do is an insult and attack on law abiding American citizens and legal immigrants.

 

[JoeB131]

If laws are not enforced they are worthless we may as well go back to the old west style shoot'm ups to get rid of problem cases.

Okay, guy, real world. Most laws aren't enforced unless there's a good reason to.

Hey, did you know that prostitution was illegal? And pot? But guess what, you can get a hooker and some weed pretty easily. Why? No one really considers those laws worth enforcing unless something else really bad is going on.

 

[RodISHI]

If laws are not enforced they are worthless we may as well go back to the old west style shoot'm ups to get rid of problem cases.

Okay, guy, real world. Most laws aren't enforced unless there's a good reason to.

Hey, did you know that prostitution was illegal? And pot? But guess what, you can get a hooker and some weed pretty easily. Why? No one really considers those laws worth enforcing unless something else really bad is going on.

This is about illegals in our country not prostitutes or drugs and something really bad is going on when millions of these illegal aliens are rising up against the population. Millions more of us including those who parents migrated legally want the law enforced.

 

[miketx]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

Is this finally going to be the one? Or shall we wait until tomorrow for the next one?

 

[miketx]

DACA is people who have been here since childhood. They are totally Americanized. A lot of these people don't even remember their home country. They are more alien to Mexico than they are to America.

Sending them back to a place which they know nothing about seems particularly harsh to me.

Why are there so many with poor English speaking and reading skills?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

DACA is people who have been here since childhood. They are totally Americanized. A lot of these people don't even remember their home country. They are more alien to Mexico than they are to America.

Sending them back to a place which they know nothing about seems particularly harsh to me.

How come so few of them speak English? Or they speak with a heavy accent. All of them are dual citizens. They have citizenship in Mexico, Guatemala or wherever they come from. They have families there. Grandparets, aunts, uncles, cousins, the home country gang affiliation. Most of them have been back to see family and spend time with relatives. Don't believe the hype.

 

[Rustic]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

Why don't you pay for that shit yourselves?
Quit expecting other people to pay for shit they want nothing to do with.
Fuck DACA

 

[RodISHI]

People like Gaby Pacheco and Cesar Vargas need to take their expertise back to their home countries from whence they and their parents came and improve them. That way they would not have all these problems they are encountering here in America and changes made by them could improve their own countries. Once that is outta the way they can apply for legal citizenship in America as the constitution readily provides for. All those corporations and professors that want them to stay can go to their countries and help improve them.

 

[Kondor3]

The entire point of the exercise is to exorcise as many Illegal Aliens as possible... age, gender, time in-country... none of that $hit matters.

The anguish their parents feel, as they watch their offspring being deported, is their penance, for their arrogance in coming or staying here without our prior consent.

Nobody likes to see a sucker (the American People) wise up, after being pushed around for so long, and for decades of browbeating by our own Liberals.

Hope it hurts like a muthaphukker, all you Illegals...

Payback's a bitch, ain't it?

Enjoy.

 

[whitehall]

The crazy and angry left might be able (with the cooperation of the MSM) to continue to build a fake social case against the President but how in the world will the disorganized angry left be able to build a case about economics while the DOW goes up during a 100 year disaster?

 

[deanrd]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

Where do you get your information from? CNN, MSNBC?

PEW Research.

Job Openings and Labor Turnover Summary
The number of job openings increased to 6.2 million on the last business day of June, the U.S. Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today.

The problem with your kind is that you believe Breitbart and Fox. CNN and MSNBC use The Bureau of Labor Statistics and PEW research. Breitbart and Fox just make shit up. Everyone except Republicans knows that.

Loved it when Trump voters were asked about Meuller and didn't know who he was. Hilarious.

 

[deanrd]

Trump preparing withdrawal from South Korea trade deal, a move opposed by top aides

Yea, keep ending trade deals without thought or study. Should work out just fine.

 

[usmbguest5318]

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

To offer a counterpoint...

Tell my oldest son that. He'll laugh you into the next state. He graduated from a "posh" school at 21 with a bachelor's degree and commenced working three weeks later for ~$120K/year and was given a $15K signing bonus.

What did his degree cost him?

• Time spent thinking about, tailoring and then applying the advice he got from me, his mentors, his counselors, etc.
• Time spent exploring who he is and wants to be, what he wants out of life, and then setting about making it happen.
• Time spent studying (middle and high school + college), instead of "cavorting."
• Time spent doing internships for part of his summers, instead of traveling and "cavorting."
• Time spent traveling the world and "cavorting" so as to learn about more than the little world in which he grew up.

Might there in his starting cohort be kids who went to less pricey schools? There almost certainly are such kids. That neither makes my kid's pricey degree less "worth it" nor their less dear one more "worth it." Insofar as they are all pleased with the outcome, they all are "worth it."

From the video you posted:

Mentality that corporations won't hire one without a degree

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

A high school senior having $30K in savings who buys physical silver will likely have enough money to buy the median U.S. home four years from now. (~29:40)

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

The U.S. now has hundreds of college preparatory high schools that a cost of about $25K/year are supposed to increase students' changes of getting into a top tier college.

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

From about the time they enter the sixth grade, American kids are taught that they must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college. The better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into. Furthermore, if they get into a great college and get their degree, any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate. After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream."

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

No school today teaches students the knowledge needed to start a business, invent their own product, or how to use the Internet and other free tools to become educated without attending college. (~1:40)

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Sigh . . . . I don't think we are going to agree on this, as you went into this with the attitude of "debunking" the whole thing. Eh? You didn't even watching the whole thing, you went in to cherry pick segments, as such, you just do not comprehend the big picture, so really, I don't see much point in refuting any of what you say, b/c you are living in a fantasy land.

Your belief is that compulsory education is necessary and good, for everyone, and should be imposed, upon everyone. I'm not saying that college isn't right for some, maybe it is. Maybe it is right for the dull of imagination. Maybe it is right for those that aren't self-starters. Maybe it is right of those who need to be told what to do. But for those in whose veins runs the spirit of American entrepreneurship and the dreams of success, not being a slave to others, it just might not be right. Sometimes there are other paths to success.

On the other hand, I will give you, that if you want to be a successful slave, a wage slave, college is great. But if you really want to be successful, and have a free mind, if you are really driven. . . Nothing can hold you back, that is the point. Schooling is typically only a hindrance. Self-starters get what education they need, and pieces of paper only when foolish people demand them.

8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
"1. Steve Jobs

<snip>
2. Richard Branson

<snip>
3. Dave Thomas

<snip>
4. David Green

<snip>

5. Larry Ellison

<snip>

6. Kevin Rose

<snip>

7. Michael Dell

<snip>

8. Rachael Ray

<snip>

Final thoughts
The moral of the story? A driven personality always finds a way. An education can either be a stepping stone or a road block on the path to achievement. If education proves to be an obstacle, those with an entrepreneurial spirit will push it aside and go their own chosen route.

Today, in the information age, there are many ways to learn and develop the skills you need to become a successful entrepreneur. Homeschooling may be a worthwhile option for many, especially if you have the desire to learn at your own pace, or if you have kids that are ambitious and independent thinkers."


(Just a few excerpts)
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree

"Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, U.S. president. Finished one year of formal schooling, self-taught himself trigonometry, and read Blackstone on his own to become a lawyer.

Andrew Jackson, U.S. president, general, attorney, judge, congressman. Home-schooled. Became a practicing attorney by the age of 35 – without a formal education.

Benjamin Franklin, inventor, scientist, author, entrepreneur. Primarily home-schooled.

Debbi Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Chocolate Chippery. Later renamed, franchised, then sold Mrs. Field’s Cookies.

Frank Lloyd Wright, the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Never attended high school.

George Eastman, multimillionaire inventor, Kodak founder. Dropped out of high school.

H. Wayne Huizenga, founder of WMX garbage company, helped build Blockbuster video chain. Joined the Army out of high school, and later went to college only to drop out during his first year.

James Cameron, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Dropped out of college.

Kemmons Wilson, multimillionaire, founder of Holiday Inn. High school dropout.

Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s. Dropped out of high school.

Rush Limbaugh, multi-millionaire media mogul, radio talk show host. Dropped out of college.

Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, phonograph, and more. Primarily home-schooled, then joined the railroad when he was only 12.

W. Clement Stone, multimillionaire insurance man, author, founder of Success magazine. Dropped out of elementary school. Later attended high school, graduating. Attended but did not finish college.

Walt Disney, founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16."

Less than two dozen people and most over a hundred years ago.
And no one teaches themselves trigonometry unless someone else taught them math previously.

I wonder how many of those people started out earning their money the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and John McCain?

Anyone who says education is not needed is both delusional and insane.

Self taught is still taught. And I have never met a "self taught" person who was actually self taught. They got their foundation from someone. Someone showed them what the letter "a" is and how it's followed by "b". No one "just knows".

I love the example of Steve Jobs. Did he actually design the first Apple or was it designed by Steve Wozniak, Bill Fernandez, people who had technical educations and worked at companies like Hewlett-Packard?

Jobs was a good salesman who relied on other people's degrees. Oop! Who knew?

TY for saying that. You hit the key themes of what was to be Part II of my response to MisterBeale's post.

Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point. Dolts, both of you. Jobs, Wozniak, and Fernandez, that is what I am getting at. For true success, University is just an illusion.

Self-taught might be still taught, but that is not what we are discussing, we are discussing college and University. I am not arguing against being educated, I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed, which clearly, some folks in this thread are.

You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable, it isn't. KSA's and experience that make them valuable.

There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.

This discussion with you is boring me now. Not because the topic in the abstract is dull, for it is not. No, I'm bored with this discussion because despite my having indulged you enough to watch that so-called documentary and read your "points," you're not having a discussion with me; you're "talking" at me and barraging me with the same f*cking remarks. You're, in other words, delivering one soliloquy of unsubstantiated conclusions after another that, apparently, you think will by repetition gain merit. To wit...

During this contretemps, I've quoted multiple specific premises (providing timestamp references to the claims in the video) presented in the video you posted as a surrogate for your own prose expressing your ideas, and I provided empirically clear evidence that repeatedly the notions expressed in the video are founded on specious information/perceptions. Among those specious premises and implied premises are:

• The assertion about how much money would have amassed investing in physical silver
• The assertion about schools not teaching how to go into business for themselves
• The assertion that college tuition prices are so high that students cannot ever pay-off the loans they obtain to finance their college education
• The implication that merely getting a degree (the knowledge, behavioral and thinking skills attendant to obtaining the degree, not the velum itself) provides the nihil obstat needed to succeed.
• The assertion that going to good school and performing well there is not an apt foundation for a successful career.
• The notion, flimsily attested to by the anecdotal remarks of a disillusioned mediocrity who graduated from a mediocre-to-poor quality law school having tuition as high or higher than as materially higher quality schools from which graduates gain entree into careers starting at double the pay of those who attended his school, that the cost of law school is too high in comparison to the wages one earns as an attorney.
• The assertion that the cost of college has risen so much that it has the same extent of "shackling" effect as does a home mortgage.
• The implication that only elite university's that "cost a ton" provide high quality educations.
• The implication that individuals are not to blame for their poor college and/or career choices.

I've with verifiably irrefutable data/evidence and sound analysis of that evidence addressed each of the above noted premises and intermediate conclusions presented in the video you posted, whereas you've, in contrast, not offered a single specific refutation of any of the facts I presented that show the porosity of the video's, thus your, claims/conclusions. Neither have you instead allowed that the video's principal conclusions, thus yours that to theirs map, rest on untruths the NIA spun into a porcine fable "which artificed olive lips hath thee kissed afore by thine own squeals thou'st petard hoist."

Previously Unaddressed-by-me Element Invalidating Another of the the Video's Claims:

Hyperinflation
There's the matter of the video's/NIA's inflammatory claim about hyperinflation, all the while presuming viewers know what hyperinflation is.

• Hyperinflation is when the prices of goods and services rise more than 50 percent a month.

The video claims the increase in tuition prices and its attendant increase in student loan debt, the average sum of which they put at $24K and declare is the equivalent of a home mortgage, will produce hyperinflation in the U.S.

• Did they present an accepted/tested model (equation) that supports their claim? No.
  • A Model of Hyperinflation
  • Modeling Hyperinflation Phenomenon: A Bayesian Approach
    
  • Expectations and Hyperinflation Dynamics
• Did they present the title and author of a credible peer reviewed and published econometric modeling study that mirrors, thus supports, their cause-effect propositions? No.
• Did they, by inferential comparison to other nations having experienced hyperinflation, inductively arrive at the conclusion that the U.S. will face the same outcome, hyperinflation? No.

The fact is that one does not need a degree in economics to see the video did none of those thing, or anything else to support its claim about hyperinflation.​

As though that weren't enough, you bid us (strictly, young people, but who the hell would recommend to someone else a video they haven't watched) to watch and think carefully about the points made in an hour-long video. For as long as my posts have been, something that occasionally people gripe about, not one has ever come close to having a one-hour estimated reading time. (And one cannot watch a video faster than the video plays.)

Oh, and also there is this:

​

Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point.

In a nation comprised of hundreds of millions of individuals, that two, two hundred or even 20K individuals have achieved on the scale that Wozniak and Fernandez did illustrates only that the exceptional is possible. Although it's nice to know that and mildly encouraging to see, nobody ever thought or so much as implied that such be not possible.

It takes neither great acumen nor prudence to know that for every "rule" there are exceptions. It takes some sagacity to know whether to expect one will be or is exceptional, be so to the good or not. And it takes sagacity, ability, acumen and more to be exceptional. Add innovativeness to that set of qualities, and one will rise to the pinnacle of economic success. People like the several super-successful ones you specified have all of those qualities and were, no matter what path upon which they embarked, would have reached extreme financial success.

I should probably here say that it seems by the tenor of your remarks and examples that for you, one is successful only if one pursues a "maverick" path that leads to billionaire-grade riches. While the maverick's way is one way to success, for most people, it's a far riskier way. There's nothing wrong with taking the riskier approach. Regardless of the approach one takes, one must also assume the risk accompanying it.

I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed

Well, with whom do you think you are arguing? Perhaps you should introduce us to your imaginary friend with whom you're having that conversation.

Neither I nor anybody I know or know of, not even brainwashers like Jim Jones and Kim Jung Un, has ever argued that there is a need for being "indoctrinated and brainwashed." And you've not even come close to proving that anyone has been "indoctrinated and brainwashed." The closest you've gotten to it is making the empty and unsubstantiated claim quoted just above.

You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable,

No, I'm not.

There again you've conjured some sh*t in your mind and ascribed it to me.

KSA's and experience that make them valuable.

I agree with that statement.

There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.

Whatever education and/or schooling you've obtained was obviously insufficient to provide you with the KSAs needed to recognize the myriad insufficiencies I in the first part of this post pointed out about that video. Accordingly, one sees that whatever approach you used needs modifying.

 

[JoeB131]

This is about illegals in our country not prostitutes or drugs and something really bad is going on when millions of these illegal aliens are rising up against the population. Millions more of us including those who parents migrated legally want the law enforced.

Yeah, I'm sure you do.

Too bad the people who really run your party don't.

Hey, dummy, who do you think is employing all these illegals? I'll give you a hint, it's rich One Percenters. The ones who hire them because they don't want to pay you a fair wage.

 

[JoeB131]

The crazy and angry left might be able (with the cooperation of the MSM) to continue to build a fake social case against the President but how in the world will the disorganized angry left be able to build a case about economics while the DOW goes up during a 100 year disaster?

So what's going to happen when the DOW crashes?

 

[MisterBeale]

According to PEW, the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America. Getting rid of those who benefited from DACA means tossing away nurses, engineers, entrepreneurs, not to mention thousands in the military. Republicans have this fantastical idea that once they leave jobs will magically open up for those who have no education nor skills.

There are 6 million jobs available right now that can't be filled because of a lack of skills. Republicans, instead of being jealous and coveting what others have, you need to make your own. That's the only way it works.

4 Years Later: Lives Built By DACA at Risk in 2016 Elections

Once approved, she was able to work as a teaching assistant while pursuing a master's degree in engineering. After graduating in June 2014, she moved back to Arizona and now works as a project engineer.

Her husband Juan Amaya is also a DACA recipient and an engineer. The Phoenix couple recently became parents and purchased a home.

--------------------

See what I mean? Like I said, Republicans don't believe in education. The majority think college is bad for America.

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

Remember, in Bible, you aren't supposed to "covet" what isn't yours. Instead of 6 million unfilled jobs because of a lack of skills, it will be 7 million. And the Business community is going to love that (snicker).

My kid will either have a tech. certification or marketable associates degree before he graduates high school.

He understands that the corruption coming out of the federal government, intertwining the federal student aid and loan program have encouraged the debt folks take on in this nation and have caused higher education cost to be ludicrously over priced and out of touch with their true cost to benefits.

Every kid needs to watch this documentary entering High School.



The fact is, many illegals get free rides, while citizens get piled on with huge debt.

No social security number? No ability of the FED or credit agencies to put you into a life time of debt, eh? Sure doesn't seem fair for the rest of us.

If they broke the law, they need to be shipped out.

You need to get that critical theory brainwashing outta your head.

The difference between universities in the US and other countries is plain.

In the US you have massive amounts spent on football and basketball scholarships, you have lovely stadia, you have lots of golf carts and sports facilities.

Everywhere else you have buildings and university professors teaching people.

Penn State University

Swansea University in Wales

In most cases that true.

Did you ever find out what the University of Chicago did with their Sports program?

They are a lot like a many Universities in America. Not all American Universities are the same.

I don't know every University in America, just the ones where I live, but I can tell you which great Universities around here have dispensed with their Div. 1 athletics programs to focus on research and education.

Here's a few scattered in with others folks know about;
NYU New York, Wayne State Michigan, San Francisco State California, UCSD California, Nova Southeastern Florida, Grand Valley State Michigan, Colorado Denver Colorado, Johns Hopkins Maryland, Cal Poly Pomona California, Cal State LA, etc

I'm not sure, does MIT have a sports program? Haven't looked into that.

 

[MisterBeale]

If laws are not enforced they are worthless we may as well go back to the old west style shoot'm ups to get rid of problem cases.

Okay, guy, real world. Most laws aren't enforced unless there's a good reason to.

Hey, did you know that prostitution was illegal? And pot? But guess what, you can get a hooker and some weed pretty easily. Why? No one really considers those laws worth enforcing unless something else really bad is going on.

Prostitution is really, REALLY bad for girls that have no homes, young girls that get abandoned by their morally irresponsible parents.

You have no idea what a problem prostitution is if you can make such callous remarks.

The same is true for alcohol, weed, tobacco and any drug really, as long as the culture is being destroyed and there are no strong families, these things being available to kids is the surest way to destroy the moral and social fabric of the nation.

 

[JoeB131]

Prostitution is really, REALLY bad for girls that have no homes, young girls that get abandoned by their morally irresponsible parents.

You have no idea what a problem prostitution is if you can make such callous remarks.

Here's the problem with that. The only reason why some minors and aliens are exploited in prostitution, is because it is illegal and unregulated. IN Nevada, where it is legal, they don't have these problems. The girls are protected and well paid.

 

[MisterBeale]

I skipped around in the video, but time and time again I kept hearing premises that just don't hold up under even the most modest bit of scrutiny. Accordingly, I would not encourage any kid to watch that video; it is rife with "alternative facts," and that is not helpful to any kid.

To offer a counterpoint...

​

From the video you posted:

In my firm, whether one has a degree matters for some positions and career paths and for others it doesn't.

• "Front of the house" (revenue generating/client facing) roles --> No degree = no job offer.
• Back office roles --> Some of them require a degree and some don't

Well, whether that's so depends on several things, not the least of which is the rate of price appreciation silver and the median U.S. home experience over the next four years.

The video you shared was published in 2013. Looking at the price of silver between then and now, the high school seniors who did as the narrator suggested (29:40) would in fact be not only further from the goal of buying the U.S. median home, but also less well-off with regard to their investment in physical silver. (Click the links.)

• Prices of silver
• Median home prices

Nuff said.​

That is so for about 20 to 30 of those schools, and those 20-30 cost a lot more than $25K/year.

What is a "top tier" college? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? The reality is that if one gets admitted to a "top 100" school, one is, without question, at a good-enough college/university to do whatever one wants to do. After that, the goodness of the school depends on what one is there to study and whether academics are one's top reason for being there.

That's a somewhat rosier model/depiction of things than I recall being given, but the model isn't broken.

• "must do well in high school so they can get accepted to the best possible college" --> Yep.
  • I was told that. I followed instructions and finished with a >4.0 high school GPA.
  • I told my kids that. They too all finished above 4.0 from high school.
• "he better their high school grades, the better the college they will have an opportunity to get into." --> Yep
  • That's more or less accurate. It certainly was for me and my kids.
    
    The incidence of it being inaccurate is when one has one's heart set on getting into "better college X" and does not, even though one does earn admittance to "better college Y."
    
    If one's goal is to get into a really good school, that the statement is 100% true. If one's aim is to get into "this" really good school, the statement may or may not be 100% true.
    
    Are there exceptions? Of course, but overwhelmingly, the better one's high school performance, the better the group of colleges/universities to which one will gain admittance.
• "any type of job they want in the field of their choice will be there waiting for them when they graduate." --> Yep
  • That was my experience upon graduating from college. In fact, prospective employers came looking for me and people like me. I accepted an offer from one of them.
  • That was my son's experience. He too was courted by prospective employers.
  • My daughter and other two sons are still in school, but unless the really, really screw up, they'll graduate with or with "high" or "highest" honors. I don't imagine they'll have trouble finding jobs. They've all done paid internships. My middle son got a job offer as a result of his performance as an intern.
• After getting their "dream" job, they will able to buy any car and house they desire, start their own family and live the "American Dream." --> Yep.
  • For me, that's exactly what happened. Mind you, the place below is beyond the realm of feasibility given my financial position. If that's what one thinks constitutes achieving the American Dream, well, merely having a degree isn't going to do it.
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but something markedly more modest like the Obamas' or Clintons' homes in D.C. is exactly what I live in, and that's plenty good enough....Good enough that I don't feel as though I have not been party to the "American Dream." I would feel the same way were any of these my home.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Maybe it's just me, but I define achieving the American dream, in part, by whether I'm achieving the things I set out to achieve, not by how may coins are in or can land in my "pot of gold."


There's also the notion that merely attaining a college degree is enough. Nobody ever told me that. What I was told is that I need to get a degree and distinguish myself in the course of getting it. Why? Because unlike some of my high school classmates, there was no family business I was destined to own regardless of my collegiate performance. The point is that the less of an "already paved way" one has upon entering high school and college, the more necessary it is for one to be top (not "near top," top) performer, that is in the top 5% of one's graduating class. (except at schools like my kids' that don't have class rank; at such places one must just perform as near to as high as level as is possible to perform.)

I think too many people miss a key part of the offer of the "American Dream." That being the implicit assumption that one must uphold one's end of the "deal" by being a top performer. That's always been so, but it's more so now than it was, say, 70 years ago. There's no question that the bar has been raised.

I suppose it's not unusual that individuals dislike the raising of the bar, but that the bar goes up is beyond individuals' control. We all, however, have to choose: rise with the bar, or don't.

• "No school today teaches..." -- Simply not true.
  • Thomas Jefferson High School
  • Wilson High School
  • Montgomery Blair -- This school offers plenty of what the video says is not at all offered in the whole of the U.S. Blair is absolutely not the only one, nor the only one in the D.C. Metro area.

The schools that don't offer much or any such course are college prep ones like the one the Obama girls attended. No surprise they don't; their goal is to prepare kids for college.
​

• "How to invent their own product" -- Seriously? How to invent one's own produce is a matter of coming up with an idea for a product. There is nothing to teach.

Sigh . . . . I don't think we are going to agree on this, as you went into this with the attitude of "debunking" the whole thing. Eh? You didn't even watching the whole thing, you went in to cherry pick segments, as such, you just do not comprehend the big picture, so really, I don't see much point in refuting any of what you say, b/c you are living in a fantasy land.

Your belief is that compulsory education is necessary and good, for everyone, and should be imposed, upon everyone. I'm not saying that college isn't right for some, maybe it is. Maybe it is right for the dull of imagination. Maybe it is right for those that aren't self-starters. Maybe it is right of those who need to be told what to do. But for those in whose veins runs the spirit of American entrepreneurship and the dreams of success, not being a slave to others, it just might not be right. Sometimes there are other paths to success.

On the other hand, I will give you, that if you want to be a successful slave, a wage slave, college is great. But if you really want to be successful, and have a free mind, if you are really driven. . . Nothing can hold you back, that is the point. Schooling is typically only a hindrance. Self-starters get what education they need, and pieces of paper only when foolish people demand them.

8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
"1. Steve Jobs

<snip>
2. Richard Branson

<snip>
3. Dave Thomas

<snip>
4. David Green

<snip>

5. Larry Ellison

<snip>

6. Kevin Rose

<snip>

7. Michael Dell

<snip>

8. Rachael Ray

<snip>

Final thoughts
The moral of the story? A driven personality always finds a way. An education can either be a stepping stone or a road block on the path to achievement. If education proves to be an obstacle, those with an entrepreneurial spirit will push it aside and go their own chosen route.

Today, in the information age, there are many ways to learn and develop the skills you need to become a successful entrepreneur. Homeschooling may be a worthwhile option for many, especially if you have the desire to learn at your own pace, or if you have kids that are ambitious and independent thinkers."


(Just a few excerpts)
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree

"Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, U.S. president. Finished one year of formal schooling, self-taught himself trigonometry, and read Blackstone on his own to become a lawyer.

Andrew Jackson, U.S. president, general, attorney, judge, congressman. Home-schooled. Became a practicing attorney by the age of 35 – without a formal education.

Benjamin Franklin, inventor, scientist, author, entrepreneur. Primarily home-schooled.

Debbi Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Chocolate Chippery. Later renamed, franchised, then sold Mrs. Field’s Cookies.

Frank Lloyd Wright, the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Never attended high school.

George Eastman, multimillionaire inventor, Kodak founder. Dropped out of high school.

H. Wayne Huizenga, founder of WMX garbage company, helped build Blockbuster video chain. Joined the Army out of high school, and later went to college only to drop out during his first year.

James Cameron, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Dropped out of college.

Kemmons Wilson, multimillionaire, founder of Holiday Inn. High school dropout.

Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s. Dropped out of high school.

Rush Limbaugh, multi-millionaire media mogul, radio talk show host. Dropped out of college.

Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, phonograph, and more. Primarily home-schooled, then joined the railroad when he was only 12.

W. Clement Stone, multimillionaire insurance man, author, founder of Success magazine. Dropped out of elementary school. Later attended high school, graduating. Attended but did not finish college.

Walt Disney, founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16."

Less than two dozen people and most over a hundred years ago.
And no one teaches themselves trigonometry unless someone else taught them math previously.

I wonder how many of those people started out earning their money the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and John McCain?

Anyone who says education is not needed is both delusional and insane.

Self taught is still taught. And I have never met a "self taught" person who was actually self taught. They got their foundation from someone. Someone showed them what the letter "a" is and how it's followed by "b". No one "just knows".

I love the example of Steve Jobs. Did he actually design the first Apple or was it designed by Steve Wozniak, Bill Fernandez, people who had technical educations and worked at companies like Hewlett-Packard?

Jobs was a good salesman who relied on other people's degrees. Oop! Who knew?

TY for saying that. You hit the key themes of what was to be Part II of my response to MisterBeale's post.

Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point. Dolts, both of you. Jobs, Wozniak, and Fernandez, that is what I am getting at. For true success, University is just an illusion.

Self-taught might be still taught, but that is not what we are discussing, we are discussing college and University. I am not arguing against being educated, I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed, which clearly, some folks in this thread are.

You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable, it isn't. KSA's and experience that make them valuable.

There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.

This discussion with you is boring me now. Not because the topic in the abstract is dull, for it is not. No, I'm bored with this discussion because despite my having indulged you enough to watch that so-called documentary and read your "points," you're not having a discussion with me; you're "talking" at me and barraging me with the same f*cking remarks. You're, in other words, delivering one soliloquy of unsubstantiated conclusions after another that, apparently, you think will by repetition gain merit. To wit...

During this contretemps, I've quoted multiple specific premises (providing timestamp references to the claims in the video) presented in the video you posted as a surrogate for your own prose expressing your ideas, and I provided empirically clear evidence that repeatedly the notions expressed in the video are founded on specious information/perceptions. Among those specious premises and implied premises are:

• The assertion about how much money would have amassed investing in physical silver
• The assertion about schools not teaching how to go into business for themselves
• The assertion that college tuition prices are so high that students cannot ever pay-off the loans they obtain to finance their college education
• The implication that merely getting a degree (the knowledge, behavioral and thinking skills attendant to obtaining the degree, not the velum itself) provides the nihil obstat needed to succeed.
• The assertion that going to good school and performing well there is not an apt foundation for a successful career.
• The notion, flimsily attested to by the anecdotal remarks of a disillusioned mediocrity who graduated from a mediocre-to-poor quality law school having tuition as high or higher than as materially higher quality schools from which graduates gain entree into careers starting at double the pay of those who attended his school, that the cost of law school is too high in comparison to the wages one earns as an attorney.
• The assertion that the cost of college has risen so much that it has the same extent of "shackling" effect as does a home mortgage.
• The implication that only elite university's that "cost a ton" provide high quality educations.
• The implication that individuals are not to blame for their poor college and/or career choices.

I've with verifiably irrefutable data/evidence and sound analysis of that evidence addressed each of the above noted premises and intermediate conclusions presented in the video you posted, whereas you've, in contrast, not offered a single specific refutation of any of the facts I presented that show the porosity of the video's, thus your, claims/conclusions. Neither have you instead allowed that the video's principal conclusions, thus yours that to theirs map, rest on untruths the NIA spun into a porcine fable "which artificed olive lips hath thee kissed afore by thine own squeals thou'st petard hoist."

Previously Unaddressed-by-me Element Invalidating Another of the the Video's Claims:

Hyperinflation
There's the matter of the video's/NIA's inflammatory claim about hyperinflation, all the while presuming viewers know what hyperinflation is.

• Hyperinflation is when the prices of goods and services rise more than 50 percent a month.

The video claims the increase in tuition prices and its attendant increase in student loan debt, the average sum of which they put at $24K and declare is the equivalent of a home mortgage, will produce hyperinflation in the U.S.

• Did they present an accepted/tested model (equation) that supports their claim? No.
  • A Model of Hyperinflation
  • Modeling Hyperinflation Phenomenon: A Bayesian Approach
    
  • Expectations and Hyperinflation Dynamics
• Did they present the title and author of a credible peer reviewed and published econometric modeling study that mirrors, thus supports, their cause-effect propositions? No.
• Did they, by inferential comparison to other nations having experienced hyperinflation, inductively arrive at the conclusion that the U.S. will face the same outcome, hyperinflation? No.

The fact is that one does not need a degree in economics to see the video did none of those thing, or anything else to support its claim about hyperinflation.​

As though that weren't enough, you bid us (strictly, young people, but who the hell would recommend to someone else a video they haven't watched) to watch and think carefully about the points made in an hour-long video. For as long as my posts have been, something that occasionally people gripe about, not one has ever come close to having a one-hour estimated reading time. (And one cannot watch a video faster than the video plays.)

Oh, and also there is this:

​

Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point.

In a nation comprised of hundreds of millions of individuals, that two, two hundred or even 20K individuals have achieved on the scale that Wozniak and Fernandez did illustrates only that the exceptional is possible. Although it's nice to know that and mildly encouraging to see, nobody ever thought or so much as implied that such be not possible.

It takes neither great acumen nor prudence to know that for every "rule" there are exceptions. It takes some sagacity to know whether to expect one will be or is exceptional, be so to the good or not. And it takes sagacity, ability, acumen and more to be exceptional. Add innovativeness to that set of qualities, and one will rise to the pinnacle of economic success. People like the several super-successful ones you specified have all of those qualities and were, no matter what path upon which they embarked, would have reached extreme financial success.

I should probably here say that it seems by the tenor of your remarks and examples that for you, one is successful only if one pursues a "maverick" path that leads to billionaire-grade riches. While the maverick's way is one way to success, for most people, it's a far riskier way. There's nothing wrong with taking the riskier approach. Regardless of the approach one takes, one must also assume the risk accompanying it.

I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed

Well, with whom do you think you are arguing? Perhaps you should introduce us to your imaginary friend with whom you're having that conversation.

Neither I nor anybody I know or know of, not even brainwashers like Jim Jones and Kim Jung Un, has ever argued that there is a need for being "indoctrinated and brainwashed." And you've not even come close to proving that anyone has been "indoctrinated and brainwashed." The closest you've gotten to it is making the empty and unsubstantiated claim quoted just above.

You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable,

No, I'm not.

There again you've conjured some sh*t in your mind and ascribed it to me.

KSA's and experience that make them valuable.

I agree with that statement.

There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.

Whatever education and/or schooling you've obtained was obviously insufficient to provide you with the KSAs needed to recognize the myriad insufficiencies I in the first part of this post pointed out about that video. Accordingly, one sees that whatever approach you used needs modifying.

You know Xelor, I have a lot of respect for you, and you are one of the most intelligent posters on this site. I don't really take a whole lot of issue with anything you have posted.

I think one of my biggest beefs with it all is, if you can't get across what you need to say at say, a ninth grade level or so, it is pretty much useless to the membership.

At the last forum I was at, such posts might have been appreciated, and I personally had no problem with your post, and found it to be not too objectionable. For the upper-middle, and upper classes, everything you posted was, for the most part, true.

That said, we are never going to agree on the truth of the matter for the middle classes and lower middle classes. I have researched the average IQ, the number of those leaving University with degrees, and the lack of jobs for those with degrees. I also am aware of how folks get jobs, what it entails with unpaid internships, and the ability of the poor and middle class to get experience and travel the world, having connections to get those jobs.

I can tell from your posts, that your son did not take out any loans for his education. His job prospects were waiting for him though contacts established through family, friends and networking that is unavailable to the lower classes. You are what is spoken of when the disenfranchised talk about, "white privilege" or the elites classes. The problem with educational costs is not a problem for the establishment.

The banking sector and government likes to have the younger generation start life in debt for the first fifteen to twenty years of it's life, and you don't really give a shit because it doesn't affect your family.

So don't give me your wall of texts telling me how it is a good thing that the system is organized this way.

We will never agree on this.