Even if Biden wins, it doesn’t matter.

[Rye Catcher]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

Best yet Trump won the African vote in what were dem only areas. Furthermore the working blue collar vote is now gop

Furthermore the blue collar vote is manifestly less educated voters. Not to post they are not stupid or not intelligent, but they are voting for trump out of emotion and not reason.

Or because their taxes decreased and incomes increased

LOL, you surely echo Trump's Game. Two-Thirds of the 2017 Tax Bill ( passed by the lame duck Republican Congress, and Trump ) favored the top earners and corporations; one-third went to the rest of us. In 2017 the tax cut to you and me will sunset, the cut of taxes to the top earners and corporations do not and more importantly the deductions that disappeared, or were cut, will not be restored.

Prove me wrong or shut your piehole..you can't so just shush

Your point will shrink as local and state taxes rise. The net increase you seem to relish is eaten up with these taxes and when the standard deduction sunsets in 2027.

 

[Coyote]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

What happened to your BLUE TSUNAMI?

Polls were wrong. You should note I held off on any predictions... 2016 was a strong lesson.

 

[Coyote]

7 out of 10 oppose overturning Roe.

When the unelected activist judges decided roe v wade the public was solidly against abortion on demand

so yes libs have often used the courts as their preferred legislature

And now?

 

[excalibur]

LOL, you surely echo Trump's Game. Two-Thirds of the 2017 Tax Bill ( passed by the lame duck Republican Congress, and Trump ) favored the top earners and corporations; one-third went to the rest of us. In 2017 the tax cut to you and me will sunset, the cut of taxes to the top earners and corporations do not and more importantly the deductions that disappeared, or were cut, will not be restored.

Corporations create jobs and pass taxes on to people. A zero corporate tax would really make the U.S. economy soar.

And:

Under Trump, Americans Have Seen Their Best Wage Growth In 40 Years

More than any other president in 40 years, Donald Trump has benefited working-class Americans, especially African Americans.

thefederalist.com

 

[Mac-7]

And now?

Thanks to trump the liberal activist majority on the SC no longer exists

so you may need a one-party dictatorship at the federal level to advance the radical lib agenda in the future

 

[Rye Catcher]

LOL, you surely echo Trump's Game. Two-Thirds of the 2017 Tax Bill ( passed by the lame duck Republican Congress, and Trump ) favored the top earners and corporations; one-third went to the rest of us. In 2017 the tax cut to you and me will sunset, the cut of taxes to the top earners and corporations do not and more importantly the deductions that disappeared, or were cut, will not be restored.

Corporations create jobs and pass taxes on to people. A zero corporate tax would really make the U.S. economy soar.

And:

Under Trump, Americans Have Seen Their Best Wage Growth In 40 Years

More than any other president in 40 years, Donald Trump has benefited working-class Americans, especially African Americans.

thefederalist.com

BULLSHIT. A post not worthy of a rebuttal.


BUT, why let Trump's Lies stand without a rebuttal? Thus:

State of Working America Wages 2018: Wage inequality marches on—and is even threatening data reliability

Analysis of 2018 wage data shows not only rising inequality in general, but also the persistence, and in some cases worsening, of wage gaps by gender and race. What also stands out in this last year of data is that, while wages are growing for most workers, wage growth continues to be slower...

www.epi.org

 

[Coyote]

And now?

Thanks to trump the liberal activist majority on the SC no longer exists

so you may need a one-party dictatorship at the federal level to advance the radical lib agenda in the future

True..we now have a conservative activist majority.

 

[skews13]

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

If so that idea exists in the younger generations being brainwashed by liberals in the public schools

so you can thank democrats for the decline

the left is in the minority and as long as they are you will embrace authoritarian rule yourselves such as in activist lib judges to create laws by judicial fiat rather than the will of the people

Roe V Wade or gay marriage is an example of that

The overwhelming majority of young people, as well as the majority of America identifies as "none's". And does not hold the views of any religious affiliation, and see the religious right as the hypocrites that they are.

Reproductive choice, and LBGT rights aren't going anywhere, and the first decision made by the radical right court that has been packed by Trump and McConnell, will result in the end of that court very quickly, as well as many state legislatures that will disappear right behind it, if any of those rights are ended in those states.

What you think is irellevant.

 

[Mac-7]

True..we now have a conservative activist majority.

Everyone is not as corrupt as liberals

conservative judges - except for roberts who has gone native - do not make new law from the bench

 

[Mac-7]

Reproductive choice, and LBGT rights aren't going anywhere,

I agree that perverts are safe, but dont be so sure about the baby killers

 

[Hum Dinger]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

There's is a huge cultural divide in the U.S.

Back in the early 1900s it was the KKK vs. the mafia. The pro-Prohibition conservatives vs. the pro-alcohol liberals. Liberals and conservatives were in both the Republican party and the Democratic party. Those parties were more management vs. labor.

Somehow WWII united the American people.

But after WWII the conservatives dropped all American values and became dedicated capitalists. The idea was if the USSR was socialist, we had to be the opposite of that which meant we were capitalists.

Then came the generation gap and counter culture of the 1960s. That grew into the liberal social values movement, which is the basis of today's Democratic party. They have lost their position as champions of working Americans.

Meanwhile the capitalists, mobsters and 'cowboys' have joined together to form a new conservative culture based (supposedly) on Conservative social values, but really primarily support the wealthy capitalists. It's the mobster & salesmanship (i.e. capitalist) culture that is responsible for the conservative's willingness to outright lie. They have no integrity and they couldn't care less.

Basically, liberals have been losing since they abandoned working families and became the champions of liberal social values. Conservatives have been winning since they became champions of conservative social values. - mixed with mobster and 'cowboy' culture.

I don't see anyway of reconciling this divide, other than on a very personal basis, liberals have to convince 'Conservatives' that they are being complete assholes and are full of shit on just about every subject. This fight has to take place in every family and at every dinner table.

So your plan is to throw tantrums?

No, my plan is for the sane, intelligent people to make it cleat to the supporters of President Shit-for-Brains that they are idiots and assholes and that we've had enough of their BULLSHIT.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

There's is a huge cultural divide in the U.S.

Back in the early 1900s it was the KKK vs. the mafia. The pro-Prohibition conservatives vs. the pro-alcohol liberals. Liberals and conservatives were in both the Republican party and the Democratic party. Those parties were more management vs. labor.

Somehow WWII united the American people.

But after WWII the conservatives dropped all American values and became dedicated capitalists. The idea was if the USSR was socialist, we had to be the opposite of that which meant we were capitalists.

Then came the generation gap and counter culture of the 1960s. That grew into the liberal social values movement, which is the basis of today's Democratic party. They have lost their position as champions of working Americans.

Meanwhile the capitalists, mobsters and 'cowboys' have joined together to form a new conservative culture based (supposedly) on Conservative social values, but really primarily support the wealthy capitalists. It's the mobster & salesmanship (i.e. capitalist) culture that is responsible for the conservative's willingness to outright lie. They have no integrity and they couldn't care less.

Basically, liberals have been losing since they abandoned working families and became the champions of liberal social values. Conservatives have been winning since they became champions of conservative social values. - mixed with mobster and 'cowboy' culture.

I don't see anyway of reconciling this divide, other than on a very personal basis, liberals have to convince 'Conservatives' that they are being complete assholes and are full of shit on just about every subject. This fight has to take place in every family and at every dinner table.

So your plan is to throw tantrums?

No, my plan is for the sane, intelligent people to make it cleat to the supporters of President Shit-for-Brains that they are idiots and assholes and that we've had enough of their BULLSHIT.

seems like you just threw a tantrum.....

 

[P@triot]

It’s clearly the truth, but partisans can’t see it. Money controls our political class. This is why the wealthy are protected by government and receive significant benefits from government. Both parties seek money from the wealthy and in turn, do the wealthy’s bidding. Failing to recognize this obvious fact is proof you aren’t informed.

Money did that in Iraq as well, you buffoon. Think there is no difference between the Republican Party and Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party? FFS, man.

You cited one single way they are "alike". As if two parties can't overlap on anything. Grow up already.

 

[P@triot]

Why is the truth unimportant to you?

Why do you refuse to speak the truth?

Oh yeah, because ironic hipster outsider persona is more important to you than country. I've got $1,000 that says you've typed all of these posts with a knit hat on and a coffee next to you.

 

[P@triot]

No, my plan is for the sane, intelligent people to make it cleat to the supporters of President Shit-for-Brains

Joe Biden? Go easy on him. He's suffering from dementia. It's not entirely his fault. That being said, he was a raging racist when he was young. Also, a raging alcoholic. Who the fuck votes for a raging racist and alcoholic now suffering from dementia, for president? Some pretty fuck'n stupid people.

that they are idiots and assholes and that we've had enough of their BULLSHIT.

Unfortunately, conservatives are peaceful, law abiding citizens. But good God I would love to see them assault everyone wearing Biden/Harris apparel, burn down cities, and loot everything not nailed down for the next 4 years, just like the left-wing assholes did for the past 4 years. Would be so great to give those mother-fuckers a taste of their own medicine.

Sadly, it won't happen though. Conservatives have too much class (plus they hold jobs). In some ways, it must be really nice to be piece of shit welfare queen.

 

[P@triot]

Nice try. 7 out of 10 oppose overturning Roe.

Would that be the 7 out of 10 people who were going to vote for Hitlery Clinton and then Joe Biden as well? You know, all of those "landslides" we heard about?

Will there ever be a day when you learn that the polls are designed to give you hope? When are you going to figure it out, Coyote? I'm being serious.

Abortion is going away. I guarantee it. It's barbaric, repugnant, and history will look upon those who supported it like they do Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. It is going away.

 

[Billiejeens]

Every problem discussed here would be solved if we began to value education and critical thinking skills. Then as Hannah Arendt tells us, we’d collectively work toward what is in the best interests of ourselves AND others.

When OANN is considered to be a viable member of the 4th estate by the leader of the free world, we have a long way to go.

One large Problem with that -
is that the institutions that we have empowered to teach education are absolutely against teaching critical thinking.

Untrue.

It's 100% true -
If you don't know that then you don't know anything.

 

[Billiejeens]

No, my plan is for the sane, intelligent people to make it cleat to the supporters of President Shit-for-Brains

Joe Biden? Go easy on him. He's suffering from dementia. It's not entirely his fault. That being said, he was a raging racist when he was young. Also, a raging alcoholic. Who the fuck votes for a raging racist and alcoholic now suffering from dementia, for president? Some pretty fuck'n stupid people.

that they are idiots and assholes and that we've had enough of their BULLSHIT.

Unfortunately, conservatives are peaceful, law abiding citizens. But good God I would love to see them assault everyone wearing Biden/Harris apparel, burn down cities, and loot everything not nailed down for the next 4 years, just like the left-wing assholes did for the past 4 years. Would be so great to give those mother-fuckers a taste of their own medicine.

Sadly, it won't happen though. Conservatives have too much class (plus they hold jobs). In some ways, it must be really nice to be piece of shit welfare queen.

Agreed
However I feel as if we may have to make an exception this time.

 

[bendog]

And now?

Thanks to trump the liberal activist majority on the SC no longer exists

so you may need a one-party dictatorship at the federal level to advance the radical lib agenda in the future

True..we now have a conservative activist majority.

Probably. No doubt they will rewrite the 1st.

 

[Billiejeens]

Nice try. 7 out of 10 oppose overturning Roe.

Would that be the 7 out of 10 people who were going to vote for Hitlery Clinton and then Joe Biden as well? You know, all of those "landslides" we heard about?

Will there ever be a day when you learn that the polls are designed to give you hope? When are you going to figure it out, Coyote? I'm being serious.

Abortion is going away. I guarantee it. It's barbaric, repugnant, and history will look upon those who supported it like they do Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. It is going away.

True -
It won't go away until science takes the need away.
People are too hedonistic and selfish.