Even Jesus Is A Zionist

[Sweet_Caroline]

So Sherri, you will not dispute Snouter's claim, but prefer to skirt the subject and carry on pissing on Jews. No surprise there of course. You are as predictable as they come.

 

[Billo_Really]

LMAO @ ignorant Billy-Boy! That story isn't a "Parable": it's a Midrash.

As detailed in this sermon from an Episcopal cleric: http://www.stjohns-hingham.org/storage/sermons/Sermon September 30 2013.pdf

I didn't call it either.

Nice strawman, though.

 

[Bloodrock44]

What Zionist nonsense you spew, I have been in Church over 8 hours today.

I have a life and certainly do leave my house.

Right. You posted until midnight. You began posting at 4 AM your time. You will post nonstop for another 20 hours and think it's normal to post 20 hours a day 7 days a week. If you leave your house then you take your Big Lots PC with you so you can post your Jew hate 20 hours a day. BTW Good morning 1st shift Satanic Sherri.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Matthew 1

English Standard Version (ESV)

The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ,*the son of David,*the son of Abraham.

Abraham was the father of Isaac, and*Isaac the father of Jacob, andJacob the father of Judah and his brothers,*and*Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram,[a]*and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon,*and Salmon the father of Boaz by*Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse,*and*Jesse the father of David the king.

And*David was the father of Solomon by*the wife of Uriah,*andSolomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asaph,*and Asaph the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram,*and Joram the father of Uzziah,*and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,*and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, and Manasseh the father of Amos,[c]*and Amos the father of Josiah,*and*Josiah the father of*Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.

And after the deportation to Babylon:*Jechoniah was the father ofShealtiel,[d]*and*Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,*and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, and Abiud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor,*and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud,*and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob,*and Jacob the father of*Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to*the Christ fourteen generations.

The Birth of Jesus Christ

Now the birth of*Jesus Christ[e]*took place in this way.

Matthew 1 - The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah - Bible Gateway

So Sherri, you will not dispute Snouter's claim, but prefer to skirt the subject and carry on pissing on Jews. No surprise there of course. You are as predictable as they come.

 

[MHunterB]

LMAO @ ignorant Billy-Boy! That story isn't a "Parable": it's a Midrash.

As detailed in this sermon from an Episcopal cleric: http://www.stjohns-hingham.org/storage/sermons/Sermon September 30 2013.pdf

I didn't call it either.

Nice strawman, though.

LOL - No, you just claimed it illustrated a lesson taught by Jesus *as opposed to* what you imagined Judaism teaches. Which was dead wrong.

It's hardly a 'strawman' when the facts contradict your ignorance : )) In your attempt to illustrate what you supposed was a *difference* you appeared to prove a commonality instead.

Is it really a commonality? That's why I gave you the source link: usually content in a sermon has been well-researched, particularly if it touches upon theology.

 

[Kondor3]

Personal opinion:

I believe that if Jesus of Nazareth had lived in modern times, that he would have been a Zionist.

I base this upon an elementary definition of Zionism: a collective effort to re-establish a Jewish Homeland on the lands formerly occupied by the Jewish kingdoms of antiquity.

I base this upon Jesus' obvious love for his people, as witnessed by his ministry amongst them and respect for Jewish law and prophecy and tradition.

Mind you, it's entirely possible that Jesus would object strenuously to some of the tactics used by Israel, but he would probably have sided with the Zionists until blood started to flow, at which point he might have broken away from the Zionist movement.

With them in early years and early decades, apart from them later, or so it strikes me.

So, yeah, it sounds believeable that Jesus might have been an early-days Zionist, had he lived in the modern era.

You can't be anymore wrong and you have no clue as to what Christ was about. HE didn't consider jews to be "HIS" people; ALL people, were HIS people.

Incorrect. The Jews were his people. His ministry focused upon his own people. It was only at the end - prior to his disappearance - that Jesus tasked his surviving disciples to go out into the world and to preach his message amongst the Gentiles.

"...In fact, HIS message, is opposite of what you support..."

With respect to what I want for the State of Israel - there is truth in what you say. Fortunately for me, I"ve never claimed to be a particularly good Christian and any judgment on my soul will be between me and my God; not according to your guidelines.

"...You support narcissism, selfishness conquest and to the victor go the spoils..."

I don't know about narcissim and selfishness, but I do, indeed, support Israel's re-conquest of its spiritual homeland, and have adopted a to-the-victor-go-the-spoils mindset with respect to Israeli territorial gains.

"...What Jesus supported..."

I do not presume nor pretend to know the mind of God.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

In The New Testament, the people Jesus calls His people are those who believe in Him.

 

[Kondor3]

If Jesus lived as a man today, He would say the exact same things He said then now, believe I am the Son of God or stand condemned...

I would not presume nor pretend to know the Mind of God... for shame.

"...He is not and never was a Zionist..."

Had he lived in the early decades of the Zionist era, it seems reasonable to speculate that he would have supported the concept of a return to the Holy Land, although it seems equally reasonable to speculate that he not have approved of many of the methods that eventually came to be used by the Zionist movement and its successors.

"...Why would His gospel change?..."

1. we would be certain that we were getting his words, not those of others

2. we would be getting his teachings without the accretions piled on top of it over the centuries

3. different times call for different approaches to life and society and even the attaining of paradise

"...The gospel of the Kingdom is eternal."

Like all Sacred Texts, the Gospels have certainly locked-out changes; after the various repeaters and translators and editors and early Church Councils and Fathers got finished with them.

It is modern-day interpretation which keeps the Gospels alive and functional.

Without an ability to apply these religious precepts to any given Age of Man, then Men would not continue to find the Gospels relevant.

The Gospels only remain relevant so long as they can be related to any given Age of Man.

And such Jesus-was-a-Zionist' speculation is just that - an attempt by partisans (of which I'm one) to speculate on whether Jesus would have approved of the concept, if not the tactics by which the goal is accomplished.

Such speculation requires personal effort and personal reflection and imagination and thinking outside the box. It is not a comfortable or efficient plane of existence for the dogmatic, nor those given-over to (a) un-thinking and robotic cut-and-paste of passages and (b) a simple, child-like and petulant insistence that her interpretation is the only valid interpretation.

It is such a mindless, dogmatic mindset that makes possible religious wars in every age.

I cannot think of any better way to keep the Gospels alive than to speculate upon what those Ancients would have thought of the modern world and its goings-on.

But that does not mean that I presume nor pretend to know the mind of God.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Jesus here speaks of the people God the Father has given Him who He Prays for, His disciples and believers (present and future believers in Him).

No prayers for Jews who do not or will not later believe in Him.

They are not His people.

And that is the people He speaks to in Matthew 23, except I will clarify that as long as any person has life in them there remains an opportunity for them to turn to Jesus and believe in Him. An example is the Apostle Paul, when Jesus spoke the words in Matthew 23 the Apostle Paul was a Pharisee who rejected Jesus as Messiah, known them as the Pharisee Saul. Jesus came to Saul in a spiritual encounter and the Pharisee Saul was transformed into the Apostle Paul.

John 17

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Prays to Be Glorified

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven*and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come.*Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.*For you granted him authority over all people*that he might give eternal life*to all those you have given him.*Now this is eternal life: that they know you,*the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.*I have brought you glory*on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.*And now, Father, glorify me*in your presence with the glory I had with you*before the world began.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

“I have revealed you[a]*to those whom you gave me*out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.*Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.*For I gave them the words you gave me*and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you,*and they believed that you sent me.*I pray for them.*I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me,*for they are yours.*All I have is yours, and all you have is mine.*And glory has come to me through them.*I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world,*and I am coming to you.*Holy Father, protect them by the power of*your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one*as we are one.*While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c]*that name you gave me. None has been lostexcept the one doomed to destruction*so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

“I am coming to you now,*but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy*within them.*I have given them your word and the world has hated them,for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.*My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.*They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.*Sanctify them by[d]*the truth; your word is truth.*As you sent me into the world,*I have sent them into the world.*For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,*that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.*May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.*I have given them the glory that you gave me,*that they may be one as we are one—*I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me*and have loved them*even as you have loved me.

“Father, I want those you have given me*to be with me where I am,and to see my glory,*the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you,*I know you, and they know that you have sent me.*I have made you[e]*known to them,*and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them*and that I myself may be in them.”


John 17 NIV - Jesus Prays to Be Glorified - After - Bible Gateway

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The Story of the Salvation of the Pharisee Saul


Acts 9

English Standard Version (ESV)

The Conversion of Saul

But Saul,*still*breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to*the high priest*and asked him for letters*to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to*the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.*Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him.*And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him,*“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting*me?”And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said,*“I am Jesus,*whom you are persecuting.*But*rise and enter the city, and you will be told*what you are to do.”*The men who were traveling with him stood speechless,*hearing the voice but seeing no one.*Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened,*he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.*And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named*Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision,*“Ananias.”*And he said,*“Here I am, Lord.”*And the Lord said to him,*“Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man*of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying,*and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and*lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.”*But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man,how much evil he has done to*your*saints at Jerusalem.*And here he has authority from*the chief priests to bind all who*call on your name.”But the Lord said to him,*“Go, for*he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name*before the Gentiles and*kings and the children of Israel.*For*I will show him how much*he must suffer*for the sake of my name.”*So*Ananias departed and entered the house. And*laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and*be filled with the Holy Spirit.”*And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and*he regained his sight. Then*he rose and was baptized;*and*taking food, he was strengthened.


Proclaims Jesus in Synagogues

For*some days he was with the disciples at Damascus.*And immediately he proclaimed Jesus in the synagogues, saying,*“He is the Son of God.”*And all who heard him were amazed and said, “Is not this the man who*made havoc*in Jerusalem of those who called upon this name? And has he not come here for this purpose, to bring them bound before the chief priests?”*But Saul*increased all the more in strength, and*confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by provingthat Jesus was the Christ.


Acts 9 - Saul?s Conversion - Meanwhile, Saul - Bible Gateway

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Paul, The Apostle

From "Crazed Destoyer of Christians" to Committed Christian Leader

Why did Paul Change?

Saul of Tarsus, terrorist, Christian, Pharisee

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

You obviously reject the words of Jesus and the Christian Gospels.

I will Pray for you that you do not continue in your disbelief, God loves each of us and desires nothing more than us to accept Jesus as His Son and our Lord and Savior.

I pity anyone who does not know Jesus, it's their loss more than anything else, it's not God who needs them, it is us who needs God.

If Jesus lived as a man today, He would say the exact same things He said then now, believe I am the Son of God or stand condemned...

I would not presume nor pretend to know the Mind of God... for shame.

"...He is not and never was a Zionist..."

Had he lived in the early decades of the Zionist era, it seems reasonable to speculate that he would have supported the concept of a return to the Holy Land, although it seems equally reasonable to speculate that he not have approved of many of the methods that eventually came to be used by the Zionist movement and its successors.

"...Why would His gospel change?..."

1. we would be certain that we were getting his words, not those of others

2. we would be getting his teachings without the accretions piled on top of it over the centuries

3. different times call for different approaches to life and society and even the attaining of paradise

"...The gospel of the Kingdom is eternal."

Like all Sacred Texts, the Gospels have certainly locked-out changes; after the various repeaters and translators and editors and early Church Councils and Fathers got finished with them.

It is modern-day interpretation which keeps the Gospels alive and functional.

Without an ability to apply these religious precepts to any given Age of Man, then Men would not continue to find the Gospels relevant.

The Gospels only remain relevant so long as they can be related to any given Age of Man.

And such Jesus-was-a-Zionist' speculation is just that - an attempt by partisans (of which I'm one) to speculate on whether Jesus would have approved of the concept, if not the tactics by which the goal is accomplished.

Such speculation requires personal effort and personal reflection and imagination and thinking outside the box. It is not a comfortable or efficient plane of existence for the dogmatic, nor those given-over to (a) un-thinking and robotic cut-and-paste of passages and (b) a simple, child-like and petulant insistence that her interpretation is the only valid interpretation.

It is such a mindless, dogmatic mindset that makes possible religious wars in every age.

I cannot think of any better way to keep the Gospels alive than to speculate upon what those Ancients would have thought of the modern world and its goings-on.

But that does not mean that I presume nor pretend to know the mind of God.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Jesus and His words dissolve hate.

God is love.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Jesus and His words dissolve hate.

God is love.

Pity you think more of Jesus than you do of G-d.

You ought to remember the first commandment. That is paramount.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I have always believed the thorn the Apostle Paul carried in his side he spoke of as living with was knowing most of his Jewish people rejected Jesus as Messiah.

 

[irosie91]

If Jesus lived as a man today, He would say the exact same things He said then now, believe I am the Son of God or stand condemned .

He is not and never was a Zionist.

Why would His gospel change?

The gospel of the Kingdom is eternal.

Jesus was a mortal man.

Many also believe that he was a vessel containing an earthly manifestation of God.

Had the mortal man in Jesus lived in modern times, and had he been brought up to speed on 2000 years of misery for his people, and had he come into the knowledge that they had held themselves together as a people and as a belief system for 2000 years, and especially had he been informed of the scope and brutality of the Holocaust of the 20th, who knows what he might have said or felt?

I do not presume to speak for God nor to know the mind of God, as manifested either by the Father or by any earthly manifestation of the Divine Spirit.

The Gospels certainly contain what little was preserved of the words and teachings of Jesus but they are imperfect recordings, made from memory many years after the death of Jesus, by aging men, and dictated to scribes, and subject to much editing and translation and re-stranslation and consolidation and additions and deletions and shifts in chronology and focus during the early centuries that The Church existed.

The Gospels may be reliably utilized to portray those aspects of Early Christian Teachings that survived all those centuries of editing and re-translation, but they cannot be utilized by any sane person to absolutely portray just how Jesus of Nazareth would react if he were living as a modern man.

It seems safe to accord to him an early backing of the Zionist movement in modern times, but it also seems safe to accord to him a distancing of self from the Zionist movement as it became clear that blood was going to flow - given his loving, peaceful, reconciling nature.

I do not presume to know the mind of God.

And would not dare say that I know how this Son would react in modern times.

I do not presume to know the mind of God.

And think it great shame and disgrace to pretend otherwise.

I do not presume to know the mind of God.

you do not need to know----sherri is here to tell you----based on writings she
does not understand and hatreds she has harbored all of her life

 

[MJB12741]

Sherri is really screwy. She actually claims "Jesus is not a Zionist & never was." So you see folks, throughout the Gospels of the New Testament Jesus preached to move the Jews out of their Jewish homeland. Bet you Zionists didn't know that, huh?

 

[irosie91]

Sherri is really screwy. She actually claims "Jesus is not a Zionist & never was." So you see folks, throughout the Gospels of the New Testament Jesus preached to move the Jews out of their Jewish homeland. Bet you Zionists didn't know that, huh?

considering where and when he lived----the religion he practiced and the society of friends
with whom he socialized IT IS VERY REMARKABLE that he kept his opposition to
zionism 'UNDER-WRAPS" According to the writers of the "new" testament----he
never mentioned it. Sherri seems to want to present Jesus as the biggest
FRAUD in history

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

They were kicked out of Jerusalem in 70AD and Jesus foretells it, a consequence of rejecting Jesus as Messiah.

And Jesus tells His disciples go into the world and share the good news .

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Alfred Edersheim writes of Matthew 23, in The Life And Times of Jesus the Messiah that these words Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and scribes was the Farewell and the parting of Israel Messiah from Israel and it's Temple.

I think he has it right.

We are seeing in the life and death of Jesus through the days of the early Christians a transition from an old covenant to a new covenant.

Jesus has said farewell and departed from Israel and it's Temple.

Yet, he writes a promise of a coming again, and the picture of a people restored. But the condition is a belief in Jesus, the condition is a believing people.

And that is the Salvation that Jesus death on the cross , dying for the sin of all, ushers in.

That work was not complete until Jesus crucifixion and resurrection and return to Heaven to sit on the right hand of God the Father.

Israel becomes the Church, a Spiritual Israel of God that the Apostle Paul later writes about, Salvation for Jew and Gentile who believe in Jesus