Even Obama Knows The End Is Near

[HUGGY]

What is the reason they are going broke?

In a few words. The Greeks elected some foolish and some criminal people to represent them in government. They, the elected leaders, made some very foolish and in some cases some criminal choices.

Like the U.S.?

IMO Yes.

 

[JoeB131]

[

when one says things like what you just said (in bold)...one is letting the readers know how little one knows about runniung a business.

A business owner never uses JUST revenue as a deciding factor for money applied to service. Net margin is the only tool appropriate for such an analysis.....which, for all intents and purposes is the ratio between revenue and profit.

Learn about what you are debating before debating. It helps with your credibility.

You know what, guy, after 20 years working in the private sector after leaving the military, whenever someone tells me what a business genius he is, I usually know he's full of shit.

Inflated egos and tiny minds, usually kept aloft by the hard work of others.

That's business.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, so you think this won't effect you??? You really are dense.

So you like the fact that Obama cut two very large college funds with Obamacare just when students needed them more and more due to ever increasing education costs?

You think that any company can operate on only 20% of their gross income? (Even United Way spends only 20% of incoming donations to feed the poor. The rest is eaten up by overhead expenses) Forget about staying in business if you don't increase premiums exponentially. That means your ass, the insured, will have to fork out extra just to keep your insurance company from folding to keep pace with inflation.

I get pretty tired of the 1% telling me that they are indispensible when they are screwing me.

I just don't buy it anymore. SOrry, just don't.

Given that insurance companies operate at a 30% profit margin, I'm sure they can afford it. When a douchebag like Ed Hanaway gets a 72 million dollar severance package, you know the foxes are in charge of the henhouse.

(If you want to know when I stopped being a Republican, it was pretty much after I had to spend two years wrestling with Cigna to get them to pay for a couple procedures, and ended up losing the job even though I had seniority. Fuck the insurance companies. I hope they all burn in hell.)

So you are blaming your decision to pay for a less than adequate insurance policy on the insurance company itself?

I find that a bit selfish.

No, I paid for the top flight insurance. I paid a higher co-pay specifically because I wanted to get better coverage. I skipped the Horrible Medical Options and paid extra to get the Point of Service insurance.

What I didn't realize that was when I actually tried to get the service I had paid good money for, it was pretty much like wrestling a snake.

Or that this company had a habit of firing people when they had medical issues. A couple of their ex-employees are suing the shit out of them fro that now.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

In a few words. The Greeks elected some foolish and some criminal people to represent them in government. They, the elected leaders, made some very foolish and in some cases some criminal choices.

Like the U.S.?

IMO Yes.

Then we are heading down the same road because of entitlements.

 

[Jarhead]

[

when one says things like what you just said (in bold)...one is letting the readers know how little one knows about runniung a business.

A business owner never uses JUST revenue as a deciding factor for money applied to service. Net margin is the only tool appropriate for such an analysis.....which, for all intents and purposes is the ratio between revenue and profit.

Learn about what you are debating before debating. It helps with your credibility.

You know what, guy, after 20 years working in the private sector after leaving the military, whenever someone tells me what a business genius he is, I usually know he's full of shit.

Inflated egos and tiny minds, usually kept aloft by the hard work of others.

That's business.

where did I say I was a business genius?
All I did was show you the err of your thinking. One does not need to be a business geniuus to understand that revenue is by no means the number for determining amount to spend on the service.

For example...

If I manufactured and sold airplanes....and I sold 100 a year.....each for 1 million.....my revenue is 100 million.....but my costs for raw materials and operations may be 90 million....giving me a profit of 10 million.

However, if I were an attorney....I would have zero costs for raw materials to practice....and if I had 100 clients that I charged 1 million a client for...I would have revenue of 100 million....and operating costs of nothing more than office space and legal assistants......maybe 20 million a year....giving me a profit of 80 million.

Learn...dont just criticize.

 

[Samson]

(If you want to know when I stopped being a Republican, it was pretty much after I had to spend two years wrestling with Cigna to get them to pay for a couple procedures, and ended up losing the job even though I had seniority. Fuck the insurance companies. I hope they all burn in hell.)

Insurance companies have a political agenda, but to believe that their agenda is only tied to one political party is ridiculous:

In 2007 and 2008, the insurance industry contributed a record $46.7 million to federal parties and candidates, with 55 percent of those donations going to Republicans

I know how easily confused you are, so I'll try to write in simple sentences:

Not all insurance donations go to Republicans.

55% donations go to Republicans.

Also, I doubt you graduated from 8th grade so I'll do the math

100 - 55 = 45%

45% donations went to Democrats.

 

[Toro]

Oh, so you think this won't effect you??? You really are dense.

So you like the fact that Obama cut two very large college funds with Obamacare just when students needed them more and more due to ever increasing education costs?

You think that any company can operate on only 20% of their gross income? (Even United Way spends only 20% of incoming donations to feed the poor. The rest is eaten up by overhead expenses) Forget about staying in business if you don't increase premiums exponentially. That means your ass, the insured, will have to fork out extra just to keep your insurance company from folding to keep pace with inflation.

I get pretty tired of the 1% telling me that they are indispensible when they are screwing me.

I just don't buy it anymore. SOrry, just don't.

Given that insurance companies operate at a 30% profit margin, I'm sure they can afford it. When a douchebag like Ed Hanaway gets a 72 million dollar severance package, you know the foxes are in charge of the henhouse.

(If you want to know when I stopped being a Republican, it was pretty much after I had to spend two years wrestling with Cigna to get them to pay for a couple procedures, and ended up losing the job even though I had seniority. Fuck the insurance companies. I hope they all burn in hell.)

Insurance companies don't operate at a 30% profit margin, except perhaps for a few catastrophe reinsurers and specialty carriers such as Lloyds syndicates. Most insurance companies break even or lose money on their insurance operations.

 

[Jarhead]

I get pretty tired of the 1% telling me that they are indispensible when they are screwing me.

I just don't buy it anymore. SOrry, just don't.

Given that insurance companies operate at a 30% profit margin, I'm sure they can afford it. When a douchebag like Ed Hanaway gets a 72 million dollar severance package, you know the foxes are in charge of the henhouse.

(If you want to know when I stopped being a Republican, it was pretty much after I had to spend two years wrestling with Cigna to get them to pay for a couple procedures, and ended up losing the job even though I had seniority. Fuck the insurance companies. I hope they all burn in hell.)

So you are blaming your decision to pay for a less than adequate insurance policy on the insurance company itself?

I find that a bit selfish.

No, I paid for the top flight insurance. I paid a higher co-pay specifically because I wanted to get better coverage. I skipped the Horrible Medical Options and paid extra to get the Point of Service insurance.

What I didn't realize that was when I actually tried to get the service I had paid good money for, it was pretty much like wrestling a snake.

Or that this company had a habit of firing people when they had medical issues. A couple of their ex-employees are suing the shit out of them fro that now.

Two thing...
First...contrary to what you may believew...if you read your insurance policy, it is a contract.....they will ALWAYS give you the service as listed in the contract (policy)....so it seems to me that if you had to fight them, then you did not read your policy properly.

Second.....what you claim about your employer...... what you are referring to is not something worthy of a lawsuit...it is something worthy of state and/or federal intervention as what you describe is against federal and state laws...soi I dont understand what kind of attorney's your former co-woprkers have....but before a lawsuit, the DA should have intervened.

In other words....what you claim about your employer? I think is BS.

 

[P@triot]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Yeah, because there should never be "layoffs", right? I mean, just like the federal government, a company should just continue to accumulate collapsing levels of debt so long as the bitter, lazy, envious little worker liberal who gives no effort continues to get a stream of income because they are "entitled to it".

You people are the biggest fucking idiots in the universe. No concept on any level of what it takes to be successful. Just full of hate and envy of people who are successful and "wear a suit". Pathetic.

 

[JoeB131]

where did I say I was a business genius?
All I did was show you the err of your thinking. One does not need to be a business geniuus to understand that revenue is by no means the number for determining amount to spend on the service.

For example...

If I manufactured and sold airplanes....and I sold 100 a year.....each for 1 million.....my revenue is 100 million.....but my costs for raw materials and operations may be 90 million....giving me a profit of 10 million.

However, if I were an attorney....I would have zero costs for raw materials to practice....and if I had 100 clients that I charged 1 million a client for...I would have revenue of 100 million....and operating costs of nothing more than office space and legal assistants......maybe 20 million a year....giving me a profit of 80 million.

Learn...dont just criticize.

Again, having been lied to and abused by the business geniuses for the last 20 years, I am incredibly unsympathatic to anything they have to say at this point.

 

[Samson]

Oh, so you think this won't effect you??? You really are dense.

So you like the fact that Obama cut two very large college funds with Obamacare just when students needed them more and more due to ever increasing education costs?

You think that any company can operate on only 20% of their gross income? (Even United Way spends only 20% of incoming donations to feed the poor. The rest is eaten up by overhead expenses) Forget about staying in business if you don't increase premiums exponentially. That means your ass, the insured, will have to fork out extra just to keep your insurance company from folding to keep pace with inflation.

I get pretty tired of the 1% telling me that they are indispensible when they are screwing me.

I just don't buy it anymore. SOrry, just don't.

Given that insurance companies operate at a 30% profit margin, I'm sure they can afford it. When a douchebag like Ed Hanaway gets a 72 million dollar severance package, you know the foxes are in charge of the henhouse.

(If you want to know when I stopped being a Republican, it was pretty much after I had to spend two years wrestling with Cigna to get them to pay for a couple procedures, and ended up losing the job even though I had seniority. Fuck the insurance companies. I hope they all burn in hell.)

Insurance companies don't operate at a 30% profit margin, except perhaps for a few catastrophe reinsurers and specialty carriers such as Lloyds syndicates. Most insurance companies break even or lose money on their insurance operations.

This is difficult to believe.

I'm not saying you're incorrect, Toro, but I would expect Joe's normally foolish assertations to at least be correct once, and find a 30% PM fairly consistant with what I'd guess would be the insurance industry's average PM.

But I'll let him defend the position.

 

[P@triot]

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Perhaps you wouldn't be laid off if you were worth a shit?

Just a thought...

Um... nope.

1996- Got laid off because the company closed it's entire Chicago Branch on the theory they could service the Chicago Area from Milwaukee where the owners lived. They couldn't. Company was out of business a year later.

2001- Got laid off because the company I worked for reorganized, eliminating our entire department. Again. Nothing to do with me personally.

2008- Got laid off because the company I worked for lost it's biggest account. Even then, they struggled to keep me around for a year as they worked to get that account back, and they had no one else who really understood it, so they had me doing "busy work".

Of four companies I've left in the last 20 years, three of them approached me to go work for them again.

So, uh, no, guy. Please stop trying to make my disdain for the way business is frequently done in this country about me.

Sorry dude, but anybody "laid off" that many times, it is clearly their fault. I've never been laid off ONCE. Not ONCE. You clearly bring no value to an organization, or they would hold on to you.

Second, if you have "disdain for the way business is done in this country", then why don't you start your own business and run it better? Exactly. Because that would require effort, something liberals refuse to give (which brings us back around to being habitually laid off)....

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Yeah, because there should never be "layoffs", right? I mean, just like the federal government, a company should just continue to accumulate collapsing levels of debt so long as the bitter, lazy, envious little worker liberal who gives no effort continues to get a stream of income because they are "entitled to it".

You people are the biggest fucking idiots in the universe. No concept on any level of what it takes to be successful. Just full of hate and envy of people who are successful and "wear a suit". Pathetic.

Hey, I'd be more than happy to throw them a "necktie" party.

And frankly, if you have to lay people off, and then get a govenrment bailout, I have very little sympathy when you turn around and pay yourself a bonus, which is considered perfectly acceptable to these guys.

Layoffs are sometimes necessary, and I have no problem firing people with just cause.

So an asshole like Romney can loot a company for millions while workers lose their health insurance, lenders get stiffed in a bankruptcy and the federal government has to bail out the pension fund is not a just cause, and it don't sit right with a lot of folks.

 

[Toro]

So you are blaming your decision to pay for a less than adequate insurance policy on the insurance company itself?

I find that a bit selfish.

No, I paid for the top flight insurance. I paid a higher co-pay specifically because I wanted to get better coverage. I skipped the Horrible Medical Options and paid extra to get the Point of Service insurance.

What I didn't realize that was when I actually tried to get the service I had paid good money for, it was pretty much like wrestling a snake.

Or that this company had a habit of firing people when they had medical issues. A couple of their ex-employees are suing the shit out of them fro that now.

Two thing...
First...contrary to what you may believew...if you read your insurance policy, it is a contract.....they will ALWAYS give you the service as listed in the contract (policy)....so it seems to me that if you had to fight them, then you did not read your policy properly.

Second.....what you claim about your employer...... what you are referring to is not something worthy of a lawsuit...it is something worthy of state and/or federal intervention as what you describe is against federal and state laws...soi I dont understand what kind of attorney's your former co-woprkers have....but before a lawsuit, the DA should have intervened.

In other words....what you claim about your employer? I think is BS.

Some insurance companies are good and some insurance companies are awful, really awful. I have no reason to disbelieve JoeAmpad when he said getting service was like wrestling with a snake. In fact, JoeAmpad would do the world a favour by naming the insurance company. The most ardent free market supporters want bad info out so potential customers can avoid the company if it has a bad reputation.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry dude, but anybody "laid off" that many times, it is clearly their fault. I've never been laid off ONCE. Not ONCE. You clearly bring no value to an organization, or they would hold on to you.

Second, if you have "disdain for the way business is done in this country", then why don't you start your own business and run it better? Exactly. Because that would require effort, something liberals refuse to give (which brings us back around to being habitually laid off)....

Uh, no, guy. Three times in 20 years is actually better than average. I look at a lot of resumes, all the time. Average for most people is a new job every four years.

And frankly, I get tired of the businessman telling me how put upon he is. Fuck him.

I deal with small businesses every day, and usually they are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

 

[Samson]

I deal with small businesses every day, and usually they are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

By "smoke up your ass" mean like claiming insurance companies make 30% PM without any supporting evidence.

Indeed, you would know smoke up your ass better than anyone.

 

[JoeB131]

Some insurance companies are good and some insurance companies are awful, really awful. I have no reason to disbelieve JoeAmpad when he said getting service was like wrestling with a snake. In fact, JoeAmpad would do the world a favour by naming the insurance company. The most ardent free market supporters want bad info out so potential customers can avoid the company if it has a bad reputation.

I will happily name the insurance company. It was Cigna.

The same Cigna that denied Natalie Sarkisyan a liver transplant until she died.

The Same Cigna that paid ex-CEO Hanaway a 72 million dollar severance package.

The same Cigna who's former vice president was so disgusted by what he saw that he became an ardent advocate for single payer health care.

 

[Jarhead]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Yeah, because there should never be "layoffs", right? I mean, just like the federal government, a company should just continue to accumulate collapsing levels of debt so long as the bitter, lazy, envious little worker liberal who gives no effort continues to get a stream of income because they are "entitled to it".

You people are the biggest fucking idiots in the universe. No concept on any level of what it takes to be successful. Just full of hate and envy of people who are successful and "wear a suit". Pathetic.

Hey, I'd be more than happy to throw them a "necktie" party.

And frankly, if you have to lay people off, and then get a govenrment bailout, I have very little sympathy when you turn around and pay yourself a bonus, which is considered perfectly acceptable to these guys.

Layoffs are sometimes necessary, and I have no problem firing people with just cause.

So an asshole like Romney can loot a company for millions while workers lose their health insurance, lenders get stiffed in a bankruptcy and the federal government has to bail out the pension fund is not a just cause, and it don't sit right with a lot of folks.

Addressing what is in bold....

Again, you need to understand the topic you are debating before actually debating or it hurts your credibility.

Romney (bain Capital) did not loot successful companies. Instead, they invested in companies that NEEDED outside capital to survive.

Without Bain, those lenders and employees would have been the victims of chapter 11 at best...if not a totla shutdown.

It is way too costly to buy into a successful company simply so you can sell off its assets.

Why?

Becuase a successful company sells out at a ratio of anywhere from 4-7% of margin....making it nearly impossible to break even by simply liquidating it.

 

[Toro]

Some insurance companies are good and some insurance companies are awful, really awful. I have no reason to disbelieve JoeAmpad when he said getting service was like wrestling with a snake. In fact, JoeAmpad would do the world a favour by naming the insurance company. The most ardent free market supporters want bad info out so potential customers can avoid the company if it has a bad reputation.

I will happily name the insurance company. It was Cigna.

The same Cigna that denied Natalie Sarkisyan a liver transplant until she died.

The Same Cigna that paid ex-CEO Hanaway a 72 million dollar severance package.

The same Cigna who's former vice president was so disgusted by what he saw that he became an ardent advocate for single payer health care.

Great. I'll note that if I ever have to deal with Cigna.

 

[Jarhead]

Some insurance companies are good and some insurance companies are awful, really awful. I have no reason to disbelieve JoeAmpad when he said getting service was like wrestling with a snake. In fact, JoeAmpad would do the world a favour by naming the insurance company. The most ardent free market supporters want bad info out so potential customers can avoid the company if it has a bad reputation.

I will happily name the insurance company. It was Cigna.

The same Cigna that denied Natalie Sarkisyan a liver transplant until she died.

The Same Cigna that paid ex-CEO Hanaway a 72 million dollar severance package.

The same Cigna who's former vice president was so disgusted by what he saw that he became an ardent advocate for single payer health care.

former VP?

Are you aware that Cigna has hundreds of VP's?

So one out of hundreds defines the sentiments of an industry?