Everyone is dancing around the truth in the Sandra Bland arrest. What happened is obvious.

[peach174]

[...]He either didn't want to breathe her smoke or knows that a flipped butt in the face can cause problems. The odd thing is he had to ask in the first place.

What he knows could happen is no justification for taking such prohibitive action. If she did flick the cigarette in his face, or blow clouds of smoke in his face, then, and only then, is he authorized to take action.

Because cops know a man they are questioning for something can kick them in the balls, does that mean they are authorized to tell him to remove his shoes? Too many cops are taking this "officer safety" routine too far. Pretty soon they will be handcuffing everyone they stop for anything and laying them face down on the street -- because they could flick a cigarette at them, spit at them, kick them in the balls, and on and on.

The response to that nonsense is action only after action, not on presumptive notion.

No it's because they are not doing what the Cops ask them to do.

 

[TooTall]

What rule says one cannot smoke in one's own vehicle?

When a cop wants you out of the car he doesn't need a lighted cigarette flicked into his face.

That's why his next request was going to be for her to bite off all nails.

Why do so many go off on a la la land remark that would never happen?

Well no one knew until this happened not putting out your cigarette in your own car was something you can be arrested for. Nail removal is reasonable..after all don't want to risk the officer maybe getting hurt by a cigarette or nails.

She didn't get arrested for not putting out her cigarette.

 

[TooTall]

When a cop wants you out of the car he doesn't need a lighted cigarette flicked into his face.

That's why his next request was going to be for her to bite off all nails.

Why do so many go off on a la la land remark that would never happen?

Well no one knew until this happened not putting out your cigarette in your own car was something you can be arrested for. Nail removal is reasonable..after all don't want to risk the officer maybe getting hurt by a cigarette or nails.

It was not obeying the officer.

Now tell me what request does not have to be followed? Anything?

Biting off her nails would be one.

 

[ClosedCaption]

That's why his next request was going to be for her to bite off all nails.

Why do so many go off on a la la land remark that would never happen?

Well no one knew until this happened not putting out your cigarette in your own car was something you can be arrested for. Nail removal is reasonable..after all don't want to risk the officer maybe getting hurt by a cigarette or nails.

It was not obeying the officer.

Now tell me what request does not have to be followed? Anything?

Your rights when you get pulled over.
What Rights Do You Have When Pulled Over - Business Insider

A simple I don't know would've sufficed

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you're saying she should get preferential treatment because she's black?

No. I'm saying the cop should have more sense than to provoke unnecessary encounters.

He pulled that woman over to issue a warning or a summons. He knows that no one likes being stopped by a cop and that the emotional effect of that experience ranges from nervous annoyance to festering anger. So why didn't he just issue the warning, or write the summons, say good day and be on his way? Why did he take the step which he knew would provoke an angry and/or belligerent response from this woman?

Was it racism, or authoritarian ego compulsion, or both?
Regardless of which or what, he is paid to enforce traffic laws by issuing warnings or summonses -- not for exercising his racial disposition or his ego -- which is exactly what he did. Now she is dead, he is suspended, the taxpayers will pay the price for it and sensible cops all over America will be compromised by another clearly unnecessary Black death incident.

It's common practice for an officer to have you put out your cigarette.

Really? What else is it common practice for cops to do? The obvious question is, WHY? Is smoking cigarettes against the law? Is smoking in one's car illegal? Having no further enforcement concern than a minor traffic offense, does a cop have a legal right to order the recipient of a warning or a summons to put his/her cigarette out? The answer is no -- even if the redundant order is softened by the word, please. It's still an implicit order.

So why do they do it. In this example we have a basic nobody, a yokel who were it not for civil service would be delivering packages for FedEx or flipping burgers. Now he's equipped with the ability to intimidate some nervous or pissed-off individual with the choice between receiving a traffic warning or a summons in exchange for the simple price of kissing his ass by not telling him where to go.

In fact i've been asked several times to do so over the years. And the amazing part? I never went to jail over it.

I think most people submit to these small-minded nobodies-with-badges because a warning is a better choice than a summons. Unless I am in a particularly bad mood I probably would submit, too. But sooner or later a Sandra Bland will come along, challenge the excess, the shit will hit the fan and a lot of innocent people will be compromised because of it.

I think we can rest assured this cop's supervisor has told the rest of his subordinates to knock off the extraneous, "put the cigarette out," nonsense. In fact, quite a few chickens have been coming home to roost where excessive conduct by police is concerned and the public is beginning to tire of it.

I think it would be a good idea to remove police discretion as to whether to issue a warning or a summons. I believe that should depend on the offenders past driving record and nothing else.

Cigarettes can and are used as a weapon,which is why they have you put them out.This has been stated at least three times in this thread.The chick seemed agitated so he told her to put it out.

 

[Jackson]

Basic Common sense: Do what the cop asks you to do. You can always tell a judge about it later.

 

[sealybobo]

So you're saying she should get preferential treatment because she's black?

No. I'm saying the cop should have more sense than to provoke unnecessary encounters.

He pulled that woman over to issue a warning or a summons. He knows that no one likes being stopped by a cop and that the emotional effect of that experience ranges from nervous annoyance to festering anger. So why didn't he just issue the warning, or write the summons, say good day and be on his way? Why did he take the step which he knew would provoke an angry and/or belligerent response from this woman?

Was it racism, or authoritarian ego compulsion, or both?
Regardless of which or what, he is paid to enforce traffic laws by issuing warnings or summonses -- not for exercising his racial disposition or his ego -- which is exactly what he did. Now she is dead, he is suspended, the taxpayers will pay the price for it and sensible cops all over America will be compromised by another clearly unnecessary Black death incident.

It's common practice for an officer to have you put out your cigarette.

Really? What else is it common practice for cops to do? The obvious question is, WHY? Is smoking cigarettes against the law? Is smoking in one's car illegal? Having no further enforcement concern than a minor traffic offense, does a cop have a legal right to order the recipient of a warning or a summons to put his/her cigarette out? The answer is no -- even if the redundant order is softened by the word, please. It's still an implicit order.

So why do they do it. In this example we have a basic nobody, a yokel who were it not for civil service would be delivering packages for FedEx or flipping burgers. Now he's equipped with the ability to intimidate some nervous or pissed-off individual with the choice between receiving a traffic warning or a summons in exchange for the simple price of kissing his ass by not telling him where to go.

In fact i've been asked several times to do so over the years. And the amazing part? I never went to jail over it.

I think most people submit to these small-minded nobodies-with-badges because a warning is a better choice than a summons. Unless I am in a particularly bad mood I probably would submit, too. But sooner or later a Sandra Bland will come along, challenge the excess, the shit will hit the fan and a lot of innocent people will be compromised because of it.

I think we can rest assured this cop's supervisor has told the rest of his subordinates to knock off the extraneous, "put the cigarette out," nonsense. In fact, quite a few chickens have been coming home to roost where excessive conduct by police is concerned and the public is beginning to tire of it.

I think it would be a good idea to remove police discretion as to whether to issue a warning or a summons. I believe that should depend on the offenders past driving record and nothing else.

I'm worried about that happening because of stupid ignorant idiots. The Sandra's of the world are going to make it so no discretion is allowed. In the future the cop will pull you over and the ticket will be automatically generated and issued.

Be fucking nice to the officer and you might get off with a warning.

I'm not even defending the cop. What a dick. But you don't be a dick back. News flash! Cops can be assholes. I got arrested once cost me $1000 in lawyer costs to get off. I didn't resist and I didn't kick the cop when he put the cuffs on me.

Let me repeat that because black people don't seem to get it. I was a 35 year old white. Beat up 1 25 year old in the mall parking lot for messing with me. I knew the God damn law and I was defending myself. The cop said because I hit him first I was going to jail. I told him that I didn't have to be hit first. The man was coming at me and I was only defending myself. The police officer he disagreed and told me to put my hands behind my back. I did. Then I called my lawyer and we went to the preliminary hearing where they tried to get me to plea but I said not guilty let's go to trial. They had me come back again before the court date and they asked me if I wanted to take a smaller please still putting me on probation I said not guilty let's go to trial. The day of the trial they tried to offer me one month probation and court fees to not go to trial I said f*** you let's go to trial pic of Jury. They threw out the case because the guy I beat up said he wanted to press charges but didn't show.

Still when he arrested me I put my hands behind my back.

What don't blacks understand? I was disgusted with this cop and I argued the whole way to jail but I was respectful. The whole time thinking he'd change his mind. Rude looses.

 

[bodecea]

Basic Common sense: Do what the cop asks you to do. You can always tell a judge about it later.

And that's what she said she was going to do........but she can't now, can she?

 

[sealybobo]

Hey black people. Question. How would you like it if you heard all Muslims were rude to our police officers? You think we'd like that here in America? I don't condone cops being dicks to blacks and I know they are but vice a versa I don't think blacks are in any position of power to be acting like dicks to cops

 

[sealybobo]

I really want to have this conversation in America and figure this out. How should one act towards a police officer when they pulled over. Should they act like they do in front of a judge or should they act like they do toward somebody who is they actually pay their salary I can imagine cats hate hearing that

 

[sealybobo]

Show me a video of a black person acting polite towards a cop and the cop arrest them. Show me the cops accidentally killing a big black man who selling loose cigarettes on a street corner when he doesn't resist arrest. Or that guy in Ferguson who is not being nice to that police officer.

 

[sealybobo]

What do you tell your children. Do tell them screw the police you know your rights or do you tell them to be polite?

 

[sealybobo]

Basic Common sense: Do what the cop asks you to do. You can always tell a judge about it later.

And that's what she said she was going to do........but she can't now, can she?

I wonder what a judge would have ruled?

Why was she in jail for 3 days? She should have been booked and released after posting bail. Why was she there 3 days? That's what I have a problem with. Had he just booked her then let her go she'd still be alive.

And I don't imagine the judge was going to be happy with her behavior or the cops.

Do you think she'd be rude to the judge? Cause that can get you 3 days for contempt. Stop having contempt for cops. I hate them too sometimes but sometimes I've been so happy to see them.

I know its hard to believe but if Sandra was being mugged or raped that cop would all of the sudden become her hero.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Basic Common sense: Do what the cop asks you to do. You can always tell a judge about it later.

And that's what she said she was going to do........but she can't now, can she?

So when was she going to get around to shutting her pie hole and cooperating?

 

[borninnj]

Police are probably trained to assume control of any encounter. If they ask you to do something and you refuse, they probably see it as a loss of control and a threat.

Couple that with a long history of police giving black people more scrutiny and months of disturbing news stories about cops victimizing blacks, more people are talking back and following cops around with cameras, and a simple traffic stop is more likely to escalate.

This particular trooper could have defused the situation better. Who knows, he might have done that 99 out of a hundred times and was having a bad day. Good chance he feels terrible that she killed herself and wishes he could have that morning back. But he turned her refusal to put the cigarette out into a felony charge that was probably going to get her fired when she had just moved back to town for a new position.

It's a big country and while these sorts of confrontations may happen on a regular basis, they usually aren't fatal. What's sad is that a woman with some stability problems was in a fork in the road of her life, and is dead instead of settling into her new job and gaining responsibility and maturity as most of us did after a few years in the workforce.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Police are probably trained to assume control of any encounter. If they ask you to do something and you refuse, they probably see it as a loss of control and a threat.

Couple that with a long history of police giving black people more scrutiny and months of disturbing news stories about cops victimizing blacks, more people are talking back and following cops around with cameras, and a simple traffic stop is more likely to escalate.

This particular trooper could have defused the situation better. Who knows, he might have done that 99 out of a hundred times and was having a bad day. Good chance he feels terrible that she killed herself and wishes he could have that morning back. But he turned her refusal to put the cigarette out into a felony charge that was probably going to get her fired when she had just moved back to town for a new position.

It's a big country and while these sorts of confrontations may happen on a regular basis, they usually aren't fatal. What's sad is that a woman with some stability problems was in a fork in the road of her life, and is dead instead of settling into her new job and gaining responsibility and maturity as most of us did after a few years in the workforce.

Everything you just posted can be refuted with one word.
Civilized.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Basic Common sense: Do what the cop asks you to do. You can always tell a judge about it later.

And that's what she said she was going to do........but she can't now, can she?

I wonder what a judge would have ruled?

Why was she in jail for 3 days? She should have been booked and released after posting bail. Why was she there 3 days? That's what I have a problem with. Had he just booked her then let her go she'd still be alive.

And I don't imagine the judge was going to be happy with her behavior or the cops.

Do you think she'd be rude to the judge? Cause that can get you 3 days for contempt. Stop having contempt for cops. I hate them too sometimes but sometimes I've been so happy to see them.

I know its hard to believe but if Sandra was being mugged or raped that cop would all of the sudden become her hero.

you know what bobo?.....if someone like dark fury had said what you just said a whole bunch of lefties here would have gotten all over the guy......you just did 6 straight post without 1 lefty getting on you and calling you a racist....

 

[sealybobo]

You have an articulate and good looking black woman who probably came from up north some where and you have a very red neck white officer with that hickey kind of country accent. He's probably spent his entire life within 10 miles of where that incident took place. I bet he has a half dozen confederate T shirts.

For some reason, and you can see it here on the USMB, conservatives and right wingers believe you should just give up every right you have and instantly jump at what a police officer says, no matter the circumstances, or you get what you deserve. Especially if you are black, Hispanic, gay or some other minority. It's an example of the ultimate police state.

So he stops her for not using her turn signal. Of course she should use her turn signal, that's what it's there for. He should have just given her a ticket or a warning. And if it was some other white with that hickey accent, you know he would have only given a verbal warning if he had bothered to stop them.

And I'll tell you something else. I have relatives in the deep south that I spent some vacations and a couple of summers with growing up. I speak perfect "Yawl (or as some USMB members insist, "ya'll"), and I have been stopped because my license is from out of state and I just start talking Yawl and they suddenly talk very nice and have never given me a ticket.

Clearly that officer provoked her and escalated the situation with "put out your cigarette" and "step out of the car" and arresting her. It wasn't that he wanted her respect. He wanted her to cower and shuffle and she wasn't having it. So in his tiny and racist little mind, he was teaching her a lesson and it was within his right to teach her that lesson no matter what the actual law said because of who he was, the uniform he was wearing and who she was. In that part of the country, it's the "natural order" of things.

Wow for once I disagree with you. Actually I agree about the cops but also have an issue with the disrespect blacks feel they should be allowed to give to cops.

I don't talk like that to cops and if I did I would expect trouble.

Do black people think white people get away with disrespecting cops? Because we don't.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You have an articulate and good looking black woman who probably came from up north some where and you have a very red neck white officer with that hickey kind of country accent. He's probably spent his entire life within 10 miles of where that incident took place. I bet he has a half dozen confederate T shirts.

For some reason, and you can see it here on the USMB, conservatives and right wingers believe you should just give up every right you have and instantly jump at what a police officer says, no matter the circumstances, or you get what you deserve. Especially if you are black, Hispanic, gay or some other minority. It's an example of the ultimate police state.

So he stops her for not using her turn signal. Of course she should use her turn signal, that's what it's there for. He should have just given her a ticket or a warning. And if it was some other white with that hickey accent, you know he would have only given a verbal warning if he had bothered to stop them.

And I'll tell you something else. I have relatives in the deep south that I spent some vacations and a couple of summers with growing up. I speak perfect "Yawl (or as some USMB members insist, "ya'll"), and I have been stopped because my license is from out of state and I just start talking Yawl and they suddenly talk very nice and have never given me a ticket.

Clearly that officer provoked her and escalated the situation with "put out your cigarette" and "step out of the car" and arresting her. It wasn't that he wanted her respect. He wanted her to cower and shuffle and she wasn't having it. So in his tiny and racist little mind, he was teaching her a lesson and it was within his right to teach her that lesson no matter what the actual law said because of who he was, the uniform he was wearing and who she was. In that part of the country, it's the "natural order" of things.

Wow for once I disagree with you. Actually I agree about the cops but also have an issue with the disrespect blacks feel they should be allowed to give to cops.

I don't talk like that to cops and if I did I would expect trouble.

Do black people think white people get away with disrespecting cops? Because we don't.

for once?.....so you agree with dean that all republicans are like he says they are?...

 

[sealybobo]

Basic Common sense: Do what the cop asks you to do. You can always tell a judge about it later.

And that's what she said she was going to do........but she can't now, can she?

I wonder what a judge would have ruled?

Why was she in jail for 3 days? She should have been booked and released after posting bail. Why was she there 3 days? That's what I have a problem with. Had he just booked her then let her go she'd still be alive.

And I don't imagine the judge was going to be happy with her behavior or the cops.

Do you think she'd be rude to the judge? Cause that can get you 3 days for contempt. Stop having contempt for cops. I hate them too sometimes but sometimes I've been so happy to see them.

I know its hard to believe but if Sandra was being mugged or raped that cop would all of the sudden become her hero.

you know what bobo?.....if someone like dark fury had said what you just said a whole bunch of lefties here would have gotten all over the guy......you just did 6 straight post without 1 lefty getting on you and calling you a racist....

I want them to argue but I won't defend the cops. They need better training. I just can't defend her right to be a bitch. And if a cop says put out your cigarette do it. En

If a judge says stop talking or sit down do you remain standing and keep talking because its legal to stand and talk?