Everyone should be in favor of reducing taxes on the "rich"

[Zoomie1980]

I see no benefit to giving people who don't need it tax breaks.

They've enjoyed these tax breaks for years now and the economy actually got worse.

Show me how having a small percentage of the already well off population getting tax breaks in the future is going to help the economy.

Not some pie in the sky theory, now, I want somebody to show me exactly how the people of the USA will be better off if a small percentage of them continue to get these tax breaks.

You could start out by explaining why this hasn't helped the economy yet.

We've invested trillions in tax breaks to the rich only to see our economy fail to create a better life for hundreds of millions of us, already, you know.



S

Tax rate manipulations, in the range they are moved in this country over the past 75 years, have NO real lasting effect on the economy. In fact, government policy itself has very little real impact. The economy is a beast all unto it's own. It moves by itself. And it is self-correcting. That is what recessions are all about, corrections to cleanse excesses that always crop up between recessions.

 

[Zoomie1980]

in a culture of outsourced jobs do you think that is REALLY an option? or even a profound suggestion?

I'm in Information Technology and I haven;t been outsourced. I hire every American college IT graduate i can attract. There simply aren't that many, so i have to contract with Indians.

Get a degree in Java programming and demonstrate proficiency in enterprise java development and I will hire you and pay you a minimum of $35/hr...RIGHT NOW.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Hundreds? Do you think this is a solution for the THOUSANDS who have lost their jobs in the last ten years?

We have a national shortage in skilled, master plumbers exceeding 100,000. The country needs over 250,000 master welders, RIGHT NOW, that's the national shortage according to the Dept of Commerce. We are have national openning for over 300,000 nurses, lpns, CRNA's. And IT professionals?
Try a national shortage of almost 1,000,000...THAT's why we go to India,. And we have a shortage of over 500,000 engineers in this country.

Starting salaries for these? Try 20/hr for plumbers, $30 for welders, $35 for nurses and IT professionals and $40-$50 for engineers. $90/hr for CRNA's.

But those are HARD skills or educations to get. and our lazy, pampered kids don't want to take the HARD stuff in college.

What's your degree in? Basket weaving? You a master tradesman? You an engineer, programmer, nurse? If not, why not? We damned sure as HELL don't need any more auto mechanics, shipping clerks, sociologists, history teachers, etc....trained monkeys can do that work....

You want to make money in this country you have to HAVE A MARKETABLE SKILL. To get a skill you have to GO TO SCHOOL and take HARD STUFF.

 

[Zoomie1980]

I don't. I don't think that the entire oil industry could assimilate the amount of workers who have lost their jobs in the last ten years letalone the dangled carrot of drilling for oil.

and, supporting your family is not an option for those who have been put out to dry, dude. Do you think people who lost their jobs are just LAZY? Do you understand what a finite resource is? You should, given the industry you work in.

If you do not have a skill worth paying for you SHOULD be put out to dry. No one OWES anyone ANYTHING in this country. You do NOT have a RIGHT to have a job. You have to EARN a job by having a SKILL someone is will to pay for. Jobs are NOT entitlements. You want a job with a good pay rate? Get a skill someone want to pay for.

I pay $35/hr for competent java programmers, $50/hr for the really experienced ones. Can you do that? Want to do that? Do it, and I'll hire you. I have a CHRONIC shortage of these folks.

 

[TruthOrg]

naw.. i think it's time to kick the upper class square in the balls. don't like it? Move to dubai.

I wonder if the class below upper class actually provide the millions of jobs. You are basically promoting an increase in unemployment and a decrease in income, etc. Move to Dubai, take your jobs with you. I rather be homeless than have a company that provides income to 1,000s of Americans who provide the government with revenue and society with necessities.

 

[Shogun]

Is this not exactey what I said you would do? 1) I'm pretty sure they don't want me filling up the board with a few hundred pages worth of material. Books have a lot of good information in them, go crack one of them sometime and find out for yourself.

I believe such an endeavor to be pointless because you really wouldn't believe that a survey of millionaires reveals that 80% of them are first generation millionaires would you?

nice excuses. 'Cause, I guess in your little fucking world THAT SINGLE BOOK is like the fucking bible of economics and the almighty godhead of money systems. Like I said, if YOU don't want to offer a goddamn thing besides bullshit assertions and tired fucking rhetorical bullshit then so be it.

Indeed, I read enough books to know that your attempt at feeling smart while hiding behind jargon and juggled vocabulary is a knee slapping joke of a farce.


A survey, eh? Why don't you go ask Alfred Kinsey all about how accurate a survey is regarding issues that can't be independently proven and reflect on the ego of the individual. And then go find yourself some evidence outside of a single source.

 

[Shogun]

I don't need op-ed pieces from the most left wing liberal print rags in the nation. Little potty mouth, your mommie is going to have to take your computer rights away. Or Sarge is going to shut your account down.

of COURSE NOT! Not when your fucking baseless OPINION works just as well for you!

yes, go ask the sarge to delete my account. Good luck with that. But, I ugess it figures that some cocksmoking capitalist pointing an empty gun around WOULD want to ban the voices, and evidences, of his failure as A) an American and B) a thinking creature.


now come getcha some, motherfucker.

 

[Shogun]

I'm in Information Technology and I haven;t been outsourced. I hire every American college IT graduate i can attract. There simply aren't that many, so i have to contract with Indians.

Get a degree in Java programming and demonstrate proficiency in enterprise java development and I will hire you and pay you a minimum of $35/hr...RIGHT NOW.

And you are not the last bastion of bellweather indictors from the entire tech market, stupid. Does every company with a fucking IT manager get email from you every morning to convey the state of the IT hiring practices? YOUR EXAMPLE SURE IS A FUCKING STANDARD FOR EVERYONE ELSE, ISNT IT? And, no, you ATTRACT those who will work for dirt cheap and run to India when your cost of labor might be threatened by competitive salaries for CS graduates who don't live in a third world fucking country. Please, go ahead and stop pretending that you are the only motherfucker associated with the IT field.

 

[busara]

I wonder if the class below upper class actually provide the millions of jobs. You are basically promoting an increase in unemployment and a decrease in income, etc. Move to Dubai, take your jobs with you. I rather be homeless than have a company that provides income to 1,000s of Americans who provide the government with revenue and society with necessities.

heres something the repubs dont consider. if the middle class is making more money.....they spend more!! so who gets it back? the upper class! and since they have more sales, it is in their best interest to invest to try and capture even more!

see how that cycle works?

 

[Shogun]

We have a national shortage in skilled, master plumbers exceeding 100,000. The country needs over 250,000 master welders, RIGHT NOW, that's the national shortage according to the Dept of Commerce. We are have national openning for over 300,000 nurses, lpns, CRNA's. And IT professionals?
Try a national shortage of almost 1,000,000...THAT's why we go to India,. And we have a shortage of over 500,000 engineers in this country.

Will you PLEASE put down the fucking crackpipe? Skilled labor is KNOWN for having to pay the kind of wages that you DONT WANT to pay while perusing india.

Tech jobs leave U.S. for India, Russia
Job exports may imperil U.S. programmers
Cuts payroll and training costs

The average computer programmer in India costs $20 per hour in wages and benefits, compared to $65 per hour for an American with a comparable degree and experience, according to consulting firm Cap Gemini Ernst & Young.
CNN.com - Tech jobs leave U.S. for India, Russia - Jul. 14, 2003

Outsourcing to usurp more U.S. jobs
More U.S. jobs at American technology and services companies will flow to developing countries, as offshore outsourcing becomes an attractive financial option, according to Gartner.

A study released by the research firm on Tuesday states that one out of every 10 jobs at information technology companies and at companies that provide IT services will move to emerging markets. It also forecast that one out of every 20 jobs within internal IT departments will shift overseas by the end of 2004.
Outsourcing to usurp more U.S. jobs | Tech News on ZDNet

Outsourcing: Beyond Bangalore
Companies are increasingly sending IT work to hubs outside India. They're saving money but facing a whole new raft of challenges
The Search for Lower Costs

Make no mistake: India remains an IT outsourcing powerhouse, with $17.7 billion in software and IT services exports in 2005, compared with $3.6 billion for China and $1 billion for Russia, according to trade organizations in each country. And India's outsourcing industry is still growing at a faster pace than that of Russia and other wannabe Bangalores.

Yet many companies can't resist the lure of cheaper labor. "Ninety percent of all outsourcing deals in the market today have been structured around cost improvement only," says Linda Cohen, vice-president of sourcing research at consulting firm Gartner (IT). By the third year of an outsourcing deal, after all the costs have been squeezed out, companies get antsy to find a new locale with an even lower overhead.
Outsourcing: Beyond Bangalore


Starting salaries for these? Try 20/hr for plumbers, $30 for welders, $35 for nurses and IT professionals and $40-$50 for engineers. $90/hr for CRNA's.

But those are HARD skills or educations to get. and our lazy, pampered kids don't want to take the HARD stuff in college.

What's your degree in? Basket weaving? You a master tradesman? You an engineer, programmer, nurse? If not, why not? We damned sure as HELL don't need any more auto mechanics, shipping clerks, sociologists, history teachers, etc....trained monkeys can do that work....


HA! yea.. it's CLEARLY the degree, and NOT A REDUCTION IN LABOR COST, that sends jobs overseas! I mean, BUSINESSWEEK sure IS a liberal left wing rag! YOU SAY SO! It must be true!




You want to make money in this country you have to HAVE A MARKETABLE SKILL. To get a skill you have to GO TO SCHOOL and take HARD STUFF.


Oh, don't forget to add "hard stuff that you don't mind learning while expecting to have your salaries lowered to the expectation of THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES". Do you really think that no one else can read? Maybe you need to hire an English major to decipher my EVIDENCE for you..

 

[Shogun]

If you do not have a skill worth paying for you SHOULD be put out to dry. No one OWES anyone ANYTHING in this country. You do NOT have a RIGHT to have a job. You have to EARN a job by having a SKILL someone is will to pay for. Jobs are NOT entitlements. You want a job with a good pay rate? Get a skill someone want to pay for.

I pay $35/hr for competent java programmers, $50/hr for the really experienced ones. Can you do that? Want to do that? Do it, and I'll hire you. I have a CHRONIC shortage of these folks.

If you want to pull your labor from a foreign nation then you can be treated like a foreign company and get to pay appropriate taxes to the nation you enjoy while undermining it's standard of living. Don't like it? Then perhaps you'd be better served with an office in Singapore. If you want to rationalize your lowered cost of labor then so be it. Enjoy Calcutta.

 

[Shogun]

I wonder if the class below upper class actually provide the millions of jobs. You are basically promoting an increase in unemployment and a decrease in income, etc. Move to Dubai, take your jobs with you. I rather be homeless than have a company that provides income to 1,000s of Americans who provide the government with revenue and society with necessities.

by all means.. enjoy your stay in India. I'm not of the mind that an AMERICAN won't step up and replace you as soon as you take your jobs overseas and are treated as the foreign company that you would be. Protectionism works in Japan... Consequently, look at their Auto market dominance. Maybe you can help Dubai's lowest classes increase their standard of living without using the US like barnacle uses a whale.

 

[Bern80]

of COURSE NOT! Not when your fucking baseless OPINION works just as well for you!

yes, go ask the sarge to delete my account. Good luck with that. But, I ugess it figures that some cocksmoking capitalist pointing an empty gun around WOULD want to ban the voices, and evidences, of his failure as A) an American and B) a thinking creature.


now come getcha some, motherfucker.

Uh you do know what the 'OP' in op-ed stands for don't know. As to my evidence I think haveing one of the brightest, most well known economist of the last century kind of helps. me.

I again thank you for proving my point that you are full of nothing but excuses when it comes to introducing you self to alternative material. To recap:

You asked for evidence.

I provided it.

You ignored, dismissed and made excuses to not look at it.

Hopefully that's brief enough for your pea brain to see why a conversation with you is fruitless endeavor.

 

[Bern80]

And you are not the last bastion of bellweather indictors from the entire tech market, stupid. Does every company with a fucking IT manager get email from you every morning to convey the state of the IT hiring practices? YOUR EXAMPLE SURE IS A FUCKING STANDARD FOR EVERYONE ELSE, ISNT IT? And, no, you ATTRACT those who will work for dirt cheap and run to India when your cost of labor might be threatened by competitive salaries for CS graduates who don't live in a third world fucking country. Please, go ahead and stop pretending that you are the only motherfucker associated with the IT field.

Prove he isn't. Come on evidence bitch. Everytime someone gives an example that doesn't line up with your distopia you start crying, you're the exception! you're the exception! Put your money where your mouth is chump and prove it.

 

[Shogun]

Uh you do know what the 'OP' in op-ed stands for don't know. As to my evidence I think haveing one of the brightest, most well known economist of the last century kind of helps. me.
I again thank you for proving my point that you are full of nothing but excuses when it comes to introducing you self to alternative material. To recap:
You asked for evidence.
I provided it.
You ignored, dismissed and made excuses to not look at it.
Hopefully that's brief enough for your pea brain to see why a conversation with you is fruitless endeavor.

HAS EACH ARTICLE IVE POSTED BEEN AN OP ED? And, dude.. before you try to call me out on anything you might want to provide more than some hero worship of some book your've read. For real. I mean, it's great that you have your mouth full gobbling up your economic hero's sausage but your opinion isn't universal. Your dazzled starry eyes are not the standard. And, since you seem incapable of offering anything OTHER than some name dropping you continue to fail.

So, in recap: No, you didn't provide shit by name dropping some book. If you think THIS is what evidence is it's really no shocker that you are so fucked up about the reality of the economy. I've provided LINK to evidence after evidce that you are full of shit. And you name drop a BOOK? a single fucking source anyway?





no wonder your scope of economic resembles a horse blinder.

 

[Shogun]

Prove he isn't. Come on evidence bitch. Everytime someone gives an example that doesn't line up with your distopia you start crying, you're the exception! you're the exception! Put your money where your mouth is chump and prove it.

In case you are two stupid to scroll up, I did in fact provide three links to THREE different sources indicating the cause of IT being sought in India. POST 190 you stupid son of a bitch.

CNN

ZDNET

BUSINESSWEEK


now, did you have anything else you'd like to add or would you like to sit there and enjoy that swift chuck norris-like kick to your balls?

 

[Bern80]

HAS EACH ARTICLE IVE POSTED BEEN AN OP ED? And, dude.. before you try to call me out on anything you might want to provide more than some hero worship of some book your've read. For real. I mean, it's great that you have your mouth full gobbling up your economic hero's sausage but your opinion isn't universal. Your dazzled starry eyes are not the standard. And, since you seem incapable of offering anything OTHER than some name dropping you continue to fail.

So, in recap: No, you didn't provide shit by name dropping some book. If you think THIS is what evidence is it's really no shocker that you are so fucked up about the reality of the economy. I've provided LINK to evidence after evidce that you are full of shit. And you name drop a BOOK? a single fucking source anyway?





no wonder your scope of economic resembles a horse blinder.

Note to self: Books (and 3 of them not 1) don't count as evidence, got it. See the joy in this for me is seeing how stupid you can make yourself look That ought to be enough to get you started. When you're done with those get back to me and I'll be happy to provide more.

 

[Shogun]

Note to self: Books (and 3 of them not 1) don't count as evidence, got it. See the joy in this for me is seeing how stupid you can make yourself look That ought to be enough to get you started. When you're done with those get back to me and I'll be happy to provide more.

no. they don't. Not when you don't cite shit about them besides namedropping and cant provide a source that allows anyone to do more than take your word on it. You know, LIKE THE FUCKING LINKS I DO NOT FAIL TO PROVIDE.



you poor desperate motherfucker... Indeed, let's talk about who looks stupid given your rhetorical talking points versus the reality out in middle America, dude.

 

[Bern80]

no. they don't. Not when you don't cite shit about them besides namedropping and cant provide a source that allows anyone to do more than take your word on it. You know, LIKE THE FUCKING LINKS I DO NOT FAIL TO PROVIDE.

So you are admittedly too lazy to read. Not my problem. I'm not going to spoon feed information to you. Either you're a chicken shit or your not. Would it really be that tough for you to go and pick one of those up? Again you have proven my point. I have provided you three just a mere three books FULL of evidence and you are making excuses to not read them.

 

[Bern80]

In case you are two stupid to scroll up, I did in fact provide three links to THREE different sources indicating the cause of IT being sought in India. POST 190 you stupid son of a bitch.

CNN

ZDNET

BUSINESSWEEK


now, did you have anything else you'd like to add or would you like to sit there and enjoy that swift chuck norris-like kick to your balls?

It couldn't possibly be a combinatin of both of course. I have never denied that jobs are leaving the U.S. I told you exactley why it is happening. India has a competitive advantage in labor, not really a tough business decision to make. Your goal is to not have that happen, so what are the options of not using foreign labor?

The first one would be nothing. Despite haveing an alternative option to save money I guess we make it illegal or something so that businesses can't do that. We force them to continue to pay the rate here. What would happen as a result of that? It reduces a companies profits, from what they would be if they used foreign labor, meaning they now have less money to do all kinds of things. You first dumbass response will be CEO's won't be able to line their pockets. Maybe true for a small few. What will also happen is they will not have money they would have had to grow their business, make capital investments, hire new workers or implement pay increases for the jobs that still are in the U.S. Worst case scenario would be they start to lose money, meaning they have to outsource even more or start laying off people or go out of business. Amazing how you would end up counteracting the very things you have been railing so hard on isn't it.