Everyone should be in favor of reducing taxes on the "rich"

[Bern80]

do you really want to throw a stone like that mr "I dont have evidence to back up my bullshit rhetoric so i'll cry like a bitch and assume someone wants handouts"?

Like I said I could prove the sky is blue by pointing at it and you would deny it. You have convinced yourself that no such evidence exist and will deny anything put in front of your face. There are plenty of non-biased books out there on the topic, "The Millionaire Next Door", "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", "Freedom and Capitalism". Feel free to give any of those a read. I already know the response I would get. For whatever reason they would not count for you. It isn't that no such evidence exist. It's that the evidence that does exist you would make any and every excuse under the sun rather accept an alternative evidence. that being the case there really is no point in me trying, is there.

You seem to think your disgruntled ass is what constitutes the norm in this country. Thank god that's not true. I don't need to be watching my back worrying whether I might get bit by a frothing at the mouth, rabid human.

 

[sealybobo]

So buying a nice home is wasting money on Junk? Supporting my family to the best of my ability is buying Junk? How is it MY fault that I chose a higher paying profession? When fuel prices jumped up high, it hurt everyone... I dont care what you say.

I work hard for the money I make. I spend 300+ days a year away from my family so that I can support my family to the best of my ability. I feel like I deserve every penny of that money.

I will never complain about the amount of money My Country spends towards defense.

REALLY? YOU MEAN TO TELL ME IF MCCAIN SPENDS $20 BILLION A MONTH ON DEFENSE FOR 4 STRAIGHT YEARS, YOU WON'T COMPLAIN? THEN DON'T YOU EVER TELL ME THAT YOU ARE FOR LOWERING TAXES. BECAUSE THE MONEY THEY ARE WASTING IS YOUR TAX DOLLARS.

AND YOU WON'T COMPLAIN, EVEN THOUGH 50% OF IT GOES TOWARDS FRAUD/THEFT/WASTE? THAT'S INTERESTING. I WONDER HOW MANY PEOPLE ABUSE WELFARE. 50% MAYBE? DO YOU MIND WELFARE FOR EVEN THE PEOPLE THAT TRULY NEED IT OR DO YOU OBJECT TO ONLY THE WELFARE ABUSE? BECAUSE I DON'T MIND DEFENSE SPENDING, I JUST MIND DEFENSE SPENDING ABUSE.

SEE, THIS IS WHY THE GOP ARE SMART. THEY DON'T WASTE MONEY ON THE POOR. THAT'S TOO HARD TO DEFEND TO VOTERS. BUT WASTE OUR TAX DOLLARS ON DEFENSE? THAT'S A LOT EASIER TO SELL TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. REMEMBER, I DIDN'T SAY SPEND, I SAID WASTE!

WE ALL FEEL LIKE WE DESERVE EVERY PENNY OF OUR INCOME. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S NOT HOW AMERICA WORKS.

 

[Shogun]

Maybe its time to change jobs if you are not making enough money..

in a culture of outsourced jobs do you think that is REALLY an option? or even a profound suggestion?

 

[Oilfield_Mafia]

The oilfield is hiring hundreds of new workers monthly starting pay around 50-60k..


want me to get some applications to pass out here?

 

[Bern80]

in a culture of outsourced jobs do you think that is REALLY an option? or even a profound suggestion?

As oppossed to your defeatist, wait for a government hand out option? yeah I think so.

 

[Shogun]

Like I said I could prove the sky is blue by pointing at it and you would deny it. You have convinced yourself that no such evidence exist and will deny anything put in front of your face. There are plenty of non-biased books out there on the topic, "The Millionaire Next Door", "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", "Freedom and Capitalism". Feel free to give any of those a read. I already know the response I would get. For whatever reason they would not count for you. It isn't that no such evidence exist. It's that the evidence that does exist you would make any and every excuse under the sun rather accept an alternative evidence. that being the case there really is no point in me trying, is there.

You seem to think your disgruntled ass is what constitutes the norm in this country. Thank god that's not true. I don't need to be watching my back worrying whether I might get bit by a frothing at the mouth, rabid human.

HA!

yea! Like all that shit you;ve proven thus far in THIS fucking rhread? You havne't posted ONE FUCKING OFFERING OF EVIDENCE, dude.


NON-BIASED? oh so now everthing is BIASED? REALITY is fucking biased against you, dude. Fucking deal with it or move. Wow! Some wealthy motherfucker can write a book! Congrats! You just joined the ranks of Matthew Lesko!

Dude. Face it. Your day in the sun is over. Take your fucking ass on down the road. NO one wants to hear about how boo fucking hoo picked on your economic theory is IN LIGHT OF THE FUCKING CURRENT ECONOMIC REALITY.


and, given the EVIDENCE i've posted, I am of the majority who is taking this nation off of your toilet paper rack. boo hoo for you. Indeed, utter one more "let them eat cake" piece of rhetorical bullshit while trying to find a rich dick to suck in this stagnant economic environment and you may just learn the same lesson French silver spooners did in 1789

 

[Shogun]

The oilfield is hiring hundreds of new workers monthly starting pay around 50-60k..


want me to get some applications to pass out here?

Hundreds? Do you think this is a solution for the THOUSANDS who have lost their jobs in the last ten years?

 

[Oilfield_Mafia]

As long as we keep drilling....


YES..


Seriously, I have been laid off before, I have been jobless before.. and I didnt expect my government to help me find a job, or support my family. Getting a job to support my family is MY RESPONSIBILITY.. So we are back to these raised taxes now right?

WHY IF I WORK HARD AND JUST HAPPEN TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE MONEY, SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY MORE TAX TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT DONT HAVE THE MOTIVATION TO GET A BETTER PAYING JOB?


Again I ask.. You want an application?

 

[sealybobo]

The oilfield is hiring hundreds of new workers monthly starting pay around 50-60k..


want me to get some applications to pass out here?

How do you make $250K a year? I'm calling bullshit. You aren't an executive, are you? My brother makes that kind of money, but he got a masters at a Big 10 school and is now a mid level exec.

FYI:

Exxon employees give more to Obama than McCain

Texas on the Potomac: Exxon employees give more to Obama than McCain

I wonder why?

 

[Oilfield_Mafia]

I spend 300+ days a year out on locations with drilling rigs. Im not an executive.. IM actually on a location RIGHT NOW.. in south east Oklahoma. I go from rig to rig, and I hit "steer" the drilling assembly to hit a target. Im a field hand.. NOT AN EXECUTIVE.. Call bullshit all you want..

Check out rigzone . com and look at what Directional Drillers make. and then multiply the day rate pay times 300+ days per year..

I dont work for any "Big Oil" Company. You will never convince me to be upset with how much profit they make.. They sell ALOT of product, thats where they make the money. dont like that? then dont buy their product..

 

[sealybobo]

WHY IF I WORK HARD AND JUST HAPPEN TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE MONEY, SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY MORE TAX TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT DONT HAVE THE MOTIVATION TO GET A BETTER PAYING JOB?

Isn't that more fair? Shouldn't everyone pay the same amount?

In a word-- no. It's not more fair; it's appallingly unfair. Why? The rich should pay more taxes, because the rich get more from the government.

Consider defense, for example, which makes up 20% of the budget. Defending the country benefits everyone; but it benefits the rich more, because they have more to defend. It's the same principle as insurance: if you have a bigger house or a fancier car, you pay more to insure it.

Social security payments, which make up another 20% of the budget, are dependent on income-- if you've put more into the system, you get higher payments when you retire.

Investments in the nation's infrastructure-- transportation, education, research & development, energy, police subsidies, the courts, etc.-- again are more useful the more you have. The interstates and airports benefit interstate commerce and people who can travel, not ghetto dwellers. Energy is used disproportionately by the rich and by industry.

As for public education, the better public schools are the ones attended by the moderately well off. The very well off ship their offspring off to private schools; but it is their companies that benefit from a well-educated public. (If you don't think that's a benefit, go start up an engineering firm, or even a factory, in El Salvador. Or Watts.)

The FDIC and the S&L bailout obviously most benefit investors and large depositors. A neat example: a smooth operator bought a failing S&L for $350 million, then received $2 billion from the government to help resurrect it.

Beyond all this, the federal budget is top-heavy with corporate welfare. Counting tax breaks and expenditures, corporations and the rich snuffle up over $400 billion a year-- compare that to the $1400 budget, or the $116 billion spent on programs for the poor.

Where's all that money go? There's direct subsidies to agribusiness ($18 billion a year), to export companies, to maritime shippers, and to various industries-- airlines, nuclear power companies, timber companies, mining companies, automakers, drug companies. There's billions of dollars in military waste and fraud. And there's untold billions in tax credits, deductions, and loopholes. Accelerated depreciation alone, for instance, is estimated to cost the Treasury $37 billion a year-- billions more than the mortgage interest deduction.

 

[Shogun]

As long as we keep drilling....
YES..
Seriously, I have been laid off before, I have been jobless before.. and I didnt expect my government to help me find a job, or support my family. Getting a job to support my family is MY RESPONSIBILITY.. So we are back to these raised taxes now right?

WHY IF I WORK HARD AND JUST HAPPEN TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE MONEY, SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY MORE TAX TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT DONT HAVE THE MOTIVATION TO GET A BETTER PAYING JOB?
Again I ask.. You want an application?

I don't. I don't think that the entire oil industry could assimilate the amount of workers who have lost their jobs in the last ten years letalone the dangled carrot of drilling for oil.

and, supporting your family is not an option for those who have been put out to dry, dude. Do you think people who lost their jobs are just LAZY? Do you understand what a finite resource is? You should, given the industry you work in.

 

[sealybobo]

I spend 300+ days a year out on locations with drilling rigs. Im not an executive.. IM actually on a location RIGHT NOW.. in south east Oklahoma. I go from rig to rig, and I hit "steer" the drilling assembly to hit a target. Im a field hand.. NOT AN EXECUTIVE.. Call bullshit all you want..

Check out rigzone . com and look at what Directional Drillers make. and then multiply the day rate pay times 300+ days per year..

I dont work for any "Big Oil" Company. You will never convince me to be upset with how much profit they make.. They sell ALOT of product, thats where they make the money. dont like that? then dont buy their product..

Buffett says the super-rich should be taxed more, not less.

In particular Buffett urged the Senate Finance Committee not to repeal the estate tax. It is scheduled to come up for a vote, perhaps as soon as this week.

He told the committee that he recently compared how much he pays in taxes in terms of a percentage of his salary to what his employees pay.

The results? Buffett says he pays 18 percent of his salary to the IRS while the rest of his staff pays nearly twice that — 33 percent, a lopsided equation that put Buffett in a Robin Hood frame of mind.

"Frankly, an economy where my receptionist pays a lot higher tax rate than, than I do does not strike me as a just economy," he told lawmakers.

Buffet has challenged the elite members of the Forbes 400 list to do their own calculations and compare their tax rate with their receptionists, and then consider his challenge that the rich should pay more.

 

[Oilfield_Mafia]

I ALREADY PAY MORE TAXES.. If we all pay 23% or whatever it is.. I pay more than someone making less..

what Im saying is why would raising that percentage with respect to income level make sense? It Doesn't .

 

[Bern80]

HA!

yea! Like all that shit you;ve proven thus far in THIS fucking rhread? You havne't posted ONE FUCKING OFFERING OF EVIDENCE, dude.


NON-BIASED? oh so now everthing is BIASED? REALITY is fucking biased against you, dude. Fucking deal with it or move. Wow! Some wealthy motherfucker can write a book! Congrats! You just joined the ranks of Matthew Lesko!

Thanks for proving my point. So now the fact that a book has information makes it invalid because it takes a rich person to write a book of course.

Dude. Face it. Your day in the sun is over. Take your fucking ass on down the road. NO one wants to hear about how boo fucking hoo picked on your economic theory is IN LIGHT OF THE FUCKING CURRENT ECONOMIC REALITY.

Actually the solace I take is in knowing that deranged fools like you make up a pretty small percentage of poeple in this country. Like i said right now the system is set up the way I like it. France already has the system set up that you want, go move there and we'll all be cool.

and, given the EVIDENCE i've posted, I am of the majority who is taking this nation off of your toilet paper rack. boo hoo for you. Indeed, utter one more "let them eat cake" piece of rhetorical bullshit while trying to find a rich dick to suck in this stagnant economic environment and you may just learn the same lesson French silver spooners did in 1789

And I have told you where you can read my evidence. Do or don't, i don't really care.

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, now hopefully I wont get a bunch of replies here from people trying to make me feel ignorant..

With that being said.. I dont know much about the tax increase, so Im going to ask everyone here. Isnt this for people making over $250,000 per year? is that considered upperclass?

I already pay 44% of my checks to the gov. About 23% goes to federal and the rest to state and soc. sec. Isnt this tax increase for the folks making over 250k a yr, proposing to deduct 50% just for federal?


If this is true, how is taking 1/2 of my check off the top going to help me? I dont understand this type of thinking..

It is hard to care about people who make $250K when you don't care about people that make $50k.

Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

And to be honest, I feel for a guy like you. You work your fucking ass off for your money.

Read this:

Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

ThomHartmann.com - Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

This is more than just a tax cut story. It's about a fundamental shift in power and wealth from average people and the governments they had formed to represent them, to the capture of those governments and economic enslavement of their people by corporate aristocracies.

Corporations are taxed because they use public services, and are therefore expected to help pay for them - the same as citizens.

Corporations make use of a work force educated in public schools paid for with tax dollars. They use roads and highways paid for with tax dollars. They use water, sewer, and power and communications rights-of-way paid for with taxes. They demand the same protection from fire and police departments as everybody else, and enjoy the benefits of national sovereignty and the stability provided by the military and institutions like NATO and the United Nations, the same as all residents of democratic nations.

In fact, corporations are heavier users of taxpayer-provided services and institutions than are average citizens. Taxes pay for our court systems, which are most heavily used by corporations to enforce contracts. Taxes pay for our Treasury Department and other governmental institutions which maintain a stable currency essential to corporate activity. Taxes pay for our regulation of corporate activity, from assuring safety in the workplace to a pure food and drug supply to limiting toxic emissions.

Under George W. Bush, the burden of cleaning up toxic wastes produced by corporate activity has largely shifted from polluter-funded Superfund and other programs to taxpayer-funded cleanups (as he did in Texas as governor there before becoming President).

Every year, millions of cases of cancer, emphysema, neurological disorders, and other conditions caused by corporate pollution are paid for in whole or in part by government funded programs from Medicare to Medicaid to government subsidies of hospitals, universities, and research institutions funded by tax dollars through the NIH and NIMH.

Because it's well understood that corporations use our tax-funded institutions at least as heavily as do citizens, they've traditionally been taxed at similar rates. For example, the top corporate tax rate in the US was 48% during the Carter administration, down from the a peak of 53% during the Eisenhower and Kennedy years.

Today it stands at 35%, but in May of 2001 Bush administration Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill suggested there should be no corporate income tax whatsoever. This was the opening salvo in a very real war to have working people bear all the costs of the commons and governance, while the wealthy corporate elite derive most of its benefits.

And, as George H.W. Bush pointed out when he was president, this isn't just an American phenomenon. It's a New World Order.

 

[Shogun]

Thanks for proving my point. So now the fact that a book has information makes it invalid because it takes a rich person to write a book of course.

HAHAHAH!


yea, by not falling to my knees like you do when you come into proximity with wealth Im "proving your point". of course, dude. of course. No, it DOESNT take a rich person to write a book. Way to get my Matt Lesko reference, brainiac.


Actually the solace I take is in knowing that deranged fools like you make up a pretty small percentage of poeple in this country. Like i said right now the system is set up the way I like it. France already has the system set up that you want, go move there and we'll all be cool.


HAHA!

yea! SMALL ENOUGH that NEWSWEEK is running articles about the failure of your economic opinion and the changing opinon of AMERICANS regarding free trade crocks of shit? SHOW ME this wave of support you think you have, motherfucker. Indeed, it was set up the way SLAVE MASTERS liked it too for a while. enjoy becoming a footnote in history, bitch.



And I have told you where you can read my evidence. Do or don't, i don't really care.



Hey, if you can't provide evidence, thats cool. I know what kind of fool you are anyway and wasn't really expecting much.

 

[Bern80]

Hey, if you can't provide evidence, thats cool. I know what kind of fool you are anyway and wasn't really expecting much.

Is this not exactey what I said you would do? 1) I'm pretty sure they don't want me filling up the board with a few hundred pages worth of material. Books have a lot of good information in them, go crack one of them sometime and find out for yourself.

I believe such an endeavor to be pointless because you really wouldn't believe that a survey of millionaires reveals that 80% of them are first generation millionaires would you?

 

[Zoomie1980]

WHO? are you fucking retarded?

Middle Class Struggle For Homes
Queens Chronicle - Middle Class Struggle For Homes

A struggle to make ends meet
Middle class, buried in bills, cutting back, and reaching out for help
Middle class families struggling to make ends meet - The Boston Globe

Cities Shed Middle Class, and Are Richer and Poorer for It
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/weekinreview/23scott.html

Blacks Lose Better Jobs Faster As Middle-Class Work Drops
Blacks Lose Better Jobs Faster As Middle-Class Work Drops - New York Times



DO YOU NEED MORE EXAMPLES YOU STUPID SON OF A BITCH? Cite your fucking sources, motherfucker. We can all make up numbers. Im betting jacks, joes and dominoes that your numbers come from a bullshit rightwing blog.

I don't need op-ed pieces from the most left wing liberal print rags in the nation. Little potty mouth, your mommie is going to have to take your computer rights away. Or Sarge is going to shut your account down.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Okay, now hopefully I wont get a bunch of replies here from people trying to make me feel ignorant..

With that being said.. I dont know much about the tax increase, so Im going to ask everyone here. Isnt this for people making over $250,000 per year? is that considered upperclass?

I already pay 44% of my checks to the gov. About 23% goes to federal and the rest to state and soc. sec. Isnt this tax increase for the folks making over 250k a yr, proposing to deduct 50% just for federal?


If this is true, how is taking 1/2 of my check off the top going to help me? I dont understand this type of thinking..

No one is going to raise marginal tax rates to 50%. Obama claimed on O'Rielly interview that his top rate proprosal would only go from 35% to 39%, and only 20% on cap gains. So liberals here better start crying because their boy isn't going to do much of anything in that department.