Evidence that universe created itself

[ding]

Eh? Sometimes it is better to know nothing. How big is the hammer which I need to expand 1 gallon space to 2 gallons space and how do I have to smash it?



No! Space is flat what's proven up to the time when light came free. Mass curves the spacetime only locally. Because space is flat we don't live in a closed universe.



Hmm ...

The universe is flat. Space time is curved as it is distorted by matter. We live in an isolated universe which means it is essentially closed. Not sure how you can believe the universe is without edge or border and still think it is an open system.

 

[sear]

Not sure how you can believe the universe is without edge or border and still think it is an open system.

That's what open means.
I don't have enough data to declare right or wrong. But without border means open.

 

[sear]

"Precision & clarity in the use of language leads to precision & clarity of thought." G. Gordon Liddy

" the universe expands from all points into all directions. So everywhere in the universe exist only central points. " za #200

Expansion rate is a separate parameter from cosmological location within the expansion.
True, to ANY observer, at ANY location, space appearing to expand surrounding the observer may promote the illusion the observer's location is the center.
It's the perceived center of the expansion.
It is not NECESSARILY the geometric center.

"There is no edge." za #200

What there is is a limit beyond which we cannot observe. That limit is sometimes referred to as an edge, rightly or wrongly.

"The most far objects which we can see travel with 3 times lightspeed." za

If they receed from us at 3 x SOL then we can NOT "see" them. SOL is our observational limit.

Light doesn't leave a black hole, because the gravity is so powerful that light isn't fast enough to reach escape velocity.

 

[zaangalewa]

The universe is flat. Space time is curved as it is distorted by matter. We live in an isolated universe

Whatever "isolated" could mean in this case: How do you know this?

which means it is essentially closed.

The universe is flat - so it is not closed. Even a triangle in the size of billions of lightyears up to the background radiation has a sum of angles of 180°.

positive curvature - without curvature - negative curvature

Not sure how you can believe the universe is without edge or border and still think it is an open system.

If it had an edge or border it would not be open.

 

[sear]

If it had an edge or border it would not be open.

The waste basket under my desk has a border, or rim. It's open.
An edge or border might be prerequisite for being closed. But even the most secure bank vault in the country has a door on hinges. It can be opened, or closed.

 

[zaangalewa]

The waste basket under my desk has a border, or rim. It's open.

Good grief - how that? Make a waste paper basket without any material - this could perhaps be a good analogy.

An edge or border might be prerequisite for being closed.

A border is something what someone is able to overstep. When we overstepped the Atlantic we found America. If we overstep the intergalacticv space between Andromeda and the Milky Way faster than Andromeda will reach us then we will find a new galaxy. But we never will find any border of the universe in whatever direction independent how many billions or trillions of years we will fly.

But even the most secure bank vault in the country has a door on hinges. It can be opened, or closed.

Aha. And how do you shield this tresor from gravity? Or how are you able to move it only a nano-milimeter out of the centre of a universe, which has only centres?

 

[ding]

That's what open means.
I don't have enough data to declare right or wrong. But without border means open.

Open or closed or isolated systems relates to thermodynamic systems.

 

[ding]

Whatever "isolated" could mean in this case: How do you know this?



The universe is flat - so it is not closed. Even a triangle in the size of billions of lightyears up to the background radiation has a sum of angles of 180°.

positive curvature - without curvature - negative curvature



If it had an edge or border it would not be open.

Because it is the general consensus within the cosmology community that the universe is an isolated system but at creation it was a closed system.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But without border means open.

A universe can be both closed and boundless. Like the surface of a sphere is.

 

[sear]

Open or closed or isolated systems relates to thermodynamic systems.

It can.
In this case I believe / hope you are right.

"A border is something what someone is able to overstep." za #206

And when they can / do overstep that border, it is considered an "open" border.

If we assume our cosmos has no exterior, whatever.
If instead we assume at the portion of time the big bang singularity had expanded to the size of a grape, that it had an inside, an outside, and a roughly defined border, why then but not now? Since then it's gotten bigger. But would the interior vs exterior have substantially intrinsically changed?

The Point:
When a nova explodes near the center of our cosmos, the shrapnel goes from one part of our cosmos, to a slightly different part of our cosmos.
When a nova explodes on the edge of our cosmos, some shrapnel is hurled inward, some is hurled outward.
And so it is with the flash of energy from that explosion. Can you guarantee none of it leaves our cosmos?

Our cosmos may be mostly closed. I dare not pretend we can state as a certitude that it is absolutely closed.

Because it is the general consensus within the cosmology community that the universe is an isolated system but at creation it was a closed system.

Well stated.

 

[sear]

A universe can be both closed and boundless. Like the surface of a sphere is.

I've never seen a sphere with a boundless surface.

 

[Flash]

There are theories, such as String Theory. There is a theory that White Holes exist - the opposite of Black Holes, and mathematically possible. Instead of sucking in matter like Black Holes, White Holes shoot out matter. So our particular universe could have simply exploded out of the ass end of one of those.

The brilliant Lawrence Krauss has a new book out on this, "A Universe From Nothing", Amazon product ASIN 1451624468
That's the beauty and fun of science: You always get to be curious, challenge yourself, ask questions, think, experiment, and admit that you don't have all the answers. Awesome!
.

LOL

Theories like this silliness are a dime a dozen. You can't make something out of nothing.

 

[ding]

It can.
In this case I believe / hope you are right.

And when they can / do overstep that border, it is considered an "open" border.

If we assume our cosmos has no exterior, whatever.
If instead we assume at the portion of time the big bang singularity had expanded to the size of a grape, that it had an inside, an outside, and a roughly defined border, why then but not now? Since then it's gotten bigger. But would the interior vs exterior have substantially intrinsically changed?

The Point:
When a nova explodes near the center of our cosmos, the shrapnel goes from one part of our cosmos, to a slightly different part of our cosmos.
When a nova explodes on the edge of our cosmos, some shrapnel is hurled inward, some is hurled outward.
And so it is with the flash of energy from that explosion. Can you guarantee none of it leaves our cosmos?

Our cosmos may be mostly closed. I dare not pretend we can state as a certitude that it is absolutely closed.

Well stated.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will cling to almost anything which might prevent them from accepting the science behind the big bang.

The universe being created from nothing scares the shit out of atheists.

 

[Mac1958]

LOL

Theories like this silliness are a dime a dozen. You can't make something out of nothing.

View attachment 524393

So what is YOUR theory?

 

[zaangalewa]

Open or closed or isolated systems relates to thermodynamic systems.

I spoke not about thermodynamics but about the dynamic geometry of the universe. What you speak about is the constancy of energy <=> no one is able to create or to destroy energy. That's a totally different thing.

 

[zaangalewa]

I've never seen a sphere with a boundless surface.

For a two dimensional object the Earth is a boundless surface.

 

[sear]

For a two dimensional object the Earth is a boundless surface.

In two spacial dimensions the surface of a sphere is either a point, or a ring, a circle. The boundary is the 3rd spacial dimension.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will cling to almost anything which might prevent them from accepting the science behind the big bang.
The universe being created from nothing scares the shit out of atheists.

Spectacular.
No idea why you juxtapose such comment with my post. I don't recall ever rejecting science. I've smirked at pseudo-science. I don't celebrate Ponds & Fleishman day.

 

[Flash]

So what is YOUR theory?

Intelligent design.

Makes a lot more sense than this stupid idea of sumptin outta nutin.

 

[Mac1958]

Intelligent design.

Makes a lot more sense than this stupid idea of sumptin outta nutin.

Where is the intelligence coming from?

 

[ChemEngineer]

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." - Nature's God

The incredible ignorance of arrogant atheists demanding theories and proofs and examinations of the Mind of God are eternally doomed to failure, and the atheists haven't a clue. Your dog or cat has no idea of what you are doing, but it gets along with you just fine. It has food, shelter, and love. Atheists could take a lesson from their pets, but they won't. They don't want to learn since they claim that they already know it all.