Expectations of Minimum Wage

[percysunshine]

Wage price controls were why there were jobs lines in the 1930s, but not in 2008.

 

[Supposn]

ToddsterPatriot, your pretense of ignorance is not (as you seem to believe), particularly cute. ... Due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

... I've never had a job where my compensation was based on multiples of the minimum wage.

When the minimum wage was increased in the past, I never received a notification from HR that said "since the minimum wage was increased by X, wages across the board will now increase by (X+Y) or by (X*Y)".

Have you?

ToddsterPatriot, no not notified but yes, affected. Just as your pay, my pay was also to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate. Every USA wage or salary is to some extent affected. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

ToddsterPatriot, your pretense of ignorance is not (as you seem to believe), particularly cute. ... Due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

... I've never had a job where my compensation was based on multiples of the minimum wage.

When the minimum wage was increased in the past, I never received a notification from HR that said "since the minimum wage was increased by X, wages across the board will now increase by (X+Y) or by (X*Y)".

Have you?

ToddsterPatriot, no not notified but yes, affected. Just as your pay, my pay was also to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate. Every USA wage or salary is to some extent affected. Respectfully, Supposn

Just as your pay, my pay was also to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate.

My pay was not impacted, at all, by the minimum wage.

 

[Supposn]

ToddsterPatriot, ... Just as your pay, my pay was also to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate. Every USA wage or salary is to some extent affected. Respectfully, Supposn

... My pay was not impacted, at all, by the minimum wage.

ToddsterPatriot, if you were employed within the USA, even if you were employed “off the books”, and regardless of your denials and/or lack of awareness, but with regard for whatever was the determination of your gross pay, your pay was to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

ToddsterPatriot, ... Just as your pay, my pay was also to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate. Every USA wage or salary is to some extent affected. Respectfully, Supposn

... My pay was not impacted, at all, by the minimum wage.

ToddsterPatriot, if you were employed within the USA, even if you were employed “off the books”, and regardless of your denials and/or lack of awareness, but with regard for whatever was the determination of your gross pay, your pay was to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

your pay was to some extent affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate.

So quantify the impact.

If the Federal Minimum Wage was increased, today, from $7.25 to $8.25, what will be the impact on my pay?
On your pay?
If it went to $9.25, what will be the impact on my pay? On your pay?

Show your work.

 

[Blues Man]

So what did I expect when I got my first ( and only) job that paid minimum wage ?

I expected to gain valuable experience and to add to my inventory of marketable skills. I expected a chance to vie for a promotion and a pay raise. I expected to use my first job as a stepping stone to my next better paying job.

 

[expat_panama]

...Due to the concept of wage differential, the purchasing power of the Federal Minimum Wage rate bolsters the purchasing powers of all USA wage scales...

Concepts do not raise wages. Wages can only go up if the raise creates more income to the business.

The wages that employers can pay employees is limited by the amount of increased company income that the employee can bring about. Paying more in wages for labor than the income the income generated is charity that comes out of the owner's pocket.

This can't be changed by passing and enforcing labor price laws. If the law says the wage has to be higher than the resultant business income then either the worker gets laid off or the company shuts down.

 

[TNHarley]

Minimum wage mandated by the fed gov is unconstitutional. Period.

 

[expat_panama]

...I see incredibly low unemployment and almost no wage increases...

Maybe you'd see the increases if you looked at the U.S. nationally tabulated wage levels.

I see real (inflation adjusted) median (half more half less) wages falling when we have minimum wage increases, and soaring to an all time high when we don't.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families? Does it make sense for someone working at McDonald's for 30 hrs a week, if they can get those hours, to say hey, I think I'll have three kids? I know many Republicans make the erroneous statement that it is just high school kids getting their first jobs. Many, many adults work minimum wage jobs, and many adults are not able to move up to better jobs. This doesn't change anything however, because if you are an adult, I would hope you would not try to start a family on a minimum wage job. Why do Democrats think that adults who work minimum wage jobs should have kids they can't afford? I have a strong hunch that the attempt to make every single job in America a bread winning family supporting job is a folly. Does it make sense that every job should guarantee the ability to raise a family? I think it makes more sense for people to wait to have kids until if or when they can afford them. Is that a radical idea?

Does it make sense for someone working at McDonald's for 30 hrs a week, if they can get those hours, to say hey, I think I'll have three kids?

What about those who already have 3 kids and their job moves to China?

A friend of mine has an apartment building with a storefront equipped to be a restaurant. He will rent it out and 6 months later they will move out. The place will sit empty for a year or so then he will rent again and 6 months later they will move out. This has been happening for years.

What he does not understand is that these local businesses require a local population with a few bucks in their pockets. If the locals are squeezed down to nothing, small businesses will close. Drive through many neighborhoods and you will see rows of storefronts boarded up. Each of these used to employ a few people.

 

[Supposn]

ToddsterPatriot, to the extent that there's a scarcity of available or potentially available labor to fill any particular existing or anticipated job opening, it is that scarcity which will primarily the market rate for that job's labor; (we're assuming an effectively enforced federal minimum rate that's less than that what would (in absence of the enforced minimum rate), then be less than the market rate for a scarcely available employee). Other than such cases, every USA wage is to some extent bolstered by the extent of the enforced minimum rate's purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Care4all]

To answer the Title of this thread, minimum wage was suppose to be a minimum living wage, that a family could live on, when it was first created.

The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.


----------------------------------

My State just went to $11 an hour, Jan 1st, 2020 it is to go to $12 an hour....

 

[Supposn]

... So quantify the impact.

If the Federal Minimum Wage was increased, today, from $7.25 to $8.25, what will be the impact on my pay?
On your pay?
If it went to $9.25, what will be the impact on my pay? On your pay?

Show your work.

ToddsterPatriot, refer to the qualifying prior post # 31.
When the extents and effective dates of the minimum rate's increases were published, USA's median wage began increasing more than otherwise. The speed of increases for any particular job was determined by the extent of labor available fill specific job openings.

When the $1 per hour enforced increase of the minimum rate became effective, USA's median wage then had increased more than otherwise. The extent of the median's increase beyond $1 per hour was dependent upon all facets then driving labor markets' prices.

Your pay and the pay of every other employee in the USA contributed to the calculation of the median wage. I do not tell fortunes or presume to predict to what extent the median wage's increase will increase beyond enforced increases of the minimum rate. Generally, increases of USA's wage scales are proportional and inversely related to the differences between the enforced minimum and the individual jobs' wage rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[oldsoul]

I shall attempt to explain my view on the minimum wage, as it seems none have attempted to come close in this thread. Hopefully, this will spark a more constructive discussion.

I am not completely opposed to minimum wage laws, I am not in favor of them either. At times, and in places, they are a responsible, compassionate thing to implement. That said, as somewhat of a student of history, I am unaware of ANY time that it was a RESPONSIBLE thing to do on a national level. Allow me to give an example:

There is much debate about a new $15 minimum wage right now. Is that reasonable? Well, yes, and no. In certain areas (NYC comes to mind) it may well be a good idea. However, in "Farmville County" (completely made up), Iowa, it likely would be a huge job/business killer. The difference? Cost of living. It is far more expensive to live in a major metro area, such as NYC, than in rural areas. Therefore:

Would it not be more RESPONSIBLE to remove the Federal minimum, and let the States/Localities decide what works best for them? Now, in the State I currently reside in, the Federal minimum is irrelevant (mostly), as the State minimum is higher. I suspect this is not unique. However:

The biggest problem I have with a minimum wage law is that it is, at its core, a price control. It controls the minimum price for labor. If I want to sell my car, I can set the price as high, or low as I wish. If I find someone willing to pay said price, noone has any problem with that. Why is it that labor is seen as different? Simple, what you are "selling" is your time, so there is a human factor involved. Therefore, in order to show COMPASSION, lawmakers have seen fit to ensure that employers do not "exploit" employees. Great, I'm all for that. It that the place for government though? I believe, no. To illustrate, imagine you find a company that is paying far lower wages for floor sweepers. First, they will likely find that those who stay are far less motivated, less likely to be loyal, take more/longer breaks, get "sick" more often, and are generally not as good of employees. Secondly, they would likely find it increasingly difficult to find qualified people to fill positions. This, of course assumes that the only difference is the wage. Now, suppose you wish to attempt to "force" this company to make a change, so as a lawmaker, you impose a minimum wage on floor sweepers that is higher than this company currently offers. One of two things are likely to happen: 1) They will employ fewer sweepers and purchase equipment to make them more productive, or 2) They will find a way around the law.

Now, suppose that you took a different approach, and "exposed" them via the media, and attempted to use public sentiment and pressure to cause them to make a change on their own.

First, which approach do you think is more compassionate, for everyone involved?
Second, which approach do you think would have a more lasting effect, for everyone involved?

Bottom line, for me, is that having a third party between me and my employer is a net negative. Someone (me {in the case of a union} or everyone {in the case of government}) has to pay for that third party. Additionally, it undermines the fundamental concept of "personal responsibility". I am responsible for me. If I am willing to accept a wage that is lower than the next person, why do you have anything to say about that? Would you want me (as a third party) to have a hand in determining the terms of your employment?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

ToddsterPatriot, to the extent that there's a scarcity of available or potentially available labor to fill any particular existing or anticipated job opening, it is that scarcity which will primarily the market rate for that job's labor; (we're assuming an effectively enforced federal minimum rate that's less than that what would (in absence of the enforced minimum rate), then be less than the market rate for a scarcely available employee). Other than such cases, every USA wage is to some extent bolstered by the extent of the enforced minimum rate's purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn

Can you translate that into English?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... So quantify the impact.

If the Federal Minimum Wage was increased, today, from $7.25 to $8.25, what will be the impact on my pay?
On your pay?
If it went to $9.25, what will be the impact on my pay? On your pay?

Show your work.

ToddsterPatriot, refer to the qualifying prior post # 31.
When the extents and effective dates of the minimum rate's increases were published, USA's median wage began increasing more than otherwise. The speed of increases for any particular job was determined by the extent of labor available fill specific job openings.

When the $1 per hour enforced increase of the minimum rate became effective, USA's median wage then had increased more than otherwise. The extent of the median's increase beyond $1 per hour was dependent upon all facets then driving labor markets' prices.

Your pay and the pay of every other employee in the USA contributed to the calculation of the median wage. I do not tell fortunes or presume to predict to what extent the median wage's increase will increase beyond enforced increases of the minimum rate. Generally, increases of USA's wage scales are proportional and inversely related to the differences between the enforced minimum and the individual jobs' wage rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

When the extents and effective dates of the minimum rate's increases were published, USA's median wage began increasing more than otherwise.

Prove it.

When the $1 per hour enforced increase of the minimum rate became effective, USA's median wage then had increased more than otherwise.

How does increasing the wage of the bottom 2% of workers increase the median wage?

Your pay and the pay of every other employee in the USA contributed to the calculation of the median wage.

Try this math problem. 99 workers. Lowest paid worker makes $1/hr. Next worker makes $2/hr. Next worker makes $3/hr. Next worker makes $4/hr...…..50th worker makes $50/hr. 77th worker makes $77/hr.

Notice the pattern yet?

98th worker makes $98/hr. 99th worker makes $99/hr. What is the median wage?

Now take the bottom 3 workers and pay them $4/hr. Pay the 4th worker $4.50/hr and the 5th worker $5.25/hr.

What is the new median wage?

 

[Supposn]

Can you translate that into English?

ToddsterPatriot, you apparently do not understand much of my posts. I apologize for some of my posts grammatical errors or missing words. Your request that I rewrite post #31, is fully justified.

I did try to explain how our federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and the modifications of that minimum rate has affected USA's jobs' rates. Some of what I wrote was:
“Due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate”;

“You prefer to appear ignorant but you're well aware of federal minimum wage's boosts to all USA wages. It doesn't affect all wages and wage scales equally. It's effect's greater for lower, and lesser for higher wages. Its effect is proportionally inverse to the difference between the minimum's and the job's wage rates”.

I regret if this is all beyond your ability to comprehend. If you do not understand these paragraphs, I can do no more for you. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Can you translate that into English?

ToddsterPatriot, rewrite of post #31.
Employers hire from the labor markets' pools. There has never been an excessive U.S. federal minimum wage. If the federal minimum wage rate is not outlandishly excessive, it will have no effect upon jobs for which there's a scarcity of acceptable and available labor to fill those job openings.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Blues Man]

To answer the Title of this thread, minimum wage was suppose to be a minimum living wage, that a family could live on, when it was first created.

The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.


----------------------------------

My State just went to $11 an hour, Jan 1st, 2020 it is to go to $12 an hour....

That says nothing about families

 

[Supposn]

]
OldSoul, due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate. I would suppose that every nation capable of enforcing something similar to the U.S. Federal minimum wage, has such a similar law, or regulation, or some other organized rules that serve a purpose similar to our minimum wage rate.
The alternative is a race to the bottom and great extents of poverty within their nation. The justification of the minimum wage rate is not compassion. It promotes our nation's general welfare which is an economic purpose.

The federal minimum wage rate is a minimum rate. It does not prevent a state for increasing that minimum within their own jurisdiction; it does prohibit a state from irresponsibly reducing that minimum within their jurisdiction and thus undermining our nation's economy.

Employers are not required to hire or retain any particular employees and generally they do no manage their enterprises in an altruistic manner. They do hire or fire, and they do increase particular employees wages.
The minimum rate does not regulate labor rates; its a minimum rate.

The U.S. Congress and our presidents agreed that unskilled workers are most vulnerable to being exploited, mistreated, and underpaid. Furthermore, due to the concept of wage differentials, minimum wage employees substandard conditions to some extent affect all employees conditions. I'm a proponent for increasing the federal minimum rate by 12.5% annually until the rate achieves purchasing power 25% greater than that of February 1968. Thereafter the rate should be monitored and annually increased when necessary to retain that same newly achieved purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn