Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[kwc57]

HMMMMM
would you please look at the threads authors name?
THIS MY THREAD DUMBASS

You do realize that you don't own the thread just because you started it, correct asswad? Threads grow from the OP and you have no control over that. Go ahead, try to delete it, lock it, etc.

kwc, your avatar looks alot like Dabs', ...with shorter teeth and less makeup...

It was time to pull out one of my Halloween avies and batboy won.....for the monent.

 

[thereisnospoon]

RACE? I don't believe race has been a factor in any post in this thread until you brought it up just now. Look, those on this thread who call for a "living wage" do so saying that people should be able to work at any job and make enough to "live" off of......which they say isn't the minimum wage Then it starts getting fuzzy. No one is talking about LPN's which take training and skill. They say any job. Most minimum wage jobs are low to no skill jobs that teenagers, retired people or second incomers take for a little spending cash. This includes stuff like sacking groceries, taking tickets at the theater, working at fast food, etc. The folks calling for a living wage think that a 25, 30 or 45 year old working at one of those jobs should make a living wage because it is "fair" and they "deserve" it. Some put that wage anywhere from $11 to $35. Don't get butt hurt over the discussion. Some of us have been arguing these points for several days with folks who have nothing more than fair and deserved as their reasoning.

So what are suppose to do? every time we have a conversation about chickens we bring in a turkey so we can later say "gotcha?"
Fair?
Deserve it?

close to 50% of the people in this country are getting some sort of help from the tax payer AND are paying no taxes
whats fair about that? Have you ever thought about what a real living wage for an ADULT might do for our deficit?

What's fair about that? That it's not true.

The 50% do pay Payroll Taxes, which are not taken into account when citing that 50% statistic.

The 50% statistic refers ONLY to Federal Income tax. Not state. Not SSI. Not medicair.

That figure( 48 to 50%) are wage earners who at the end of the year bear NO federal tax burden.

 

[FactFinder]

Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

The least we can get away with paying your lame sorry asses.

 

[Foxfyre]

We should clarify something else too. FICA, medicare, etc. paid by the employee is an investment. If he or she is fortunate to live long enough, s/he will receive far more than s/he pays in to those accounts. It isn't all that much different than 401K contributions except that the government gets to keep it if you aren't fortunate enough to live long enough to benefit from it. (Your 401K will go to your designated heir or heirs.)

Those payroll taxes ARE a real tax to your employer though. The more the government requires the employer to pay, the less he will have to pay in salaries, raises, bonues, or benefits.

 

[Kuros]

Some jobs are pretty dead end jobs though. The best we can hope for from those are to do them so well, efficiently, and competently that we will merit a promotion and more responsiblity that comes with better pay. Otherwise, if we want more money than our job is likely to be worth to our employer, we better be studying, learning, educating, or training ourselves to qualify for something better.

Those unwilling to do that pretty well deserve exactly what they get paid.

$1 trillion in outstanding student loans

Studying/learning/training ourselves today is still possible, but its more difficult than yesteryear. Without some parental support, its two slip-ups and you're permanent underclass.

 

[Foxfyre]

Some jobs are pretty dead end jobs though. The best we can hope for from those are to do them so well, efficiently, and competently that we will merit a promotion and more responsiblity that comes with better pay. Otherwise, if we want more money than our job is likely to be worth to our employer, we better be studying, learning, educating, or training ourselves to qualify for something better.

Those unwilling to do that pretty well deserve exactly what they get paid.

$1 trillion in outstanding student loans

Studying/learning/training ourselves today is still possible, but its more difficult than yesteryear. Without some parental support, its two slip-ups and you're permanent underclass.

I know a fair number of people who are working full time AND putting themselves through college without parental support. They do not in any sense consider themselves permanent underclass.

Get the government out of education and let the free market operate, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more folks thinking the possibilities are much more affordable too.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Some jobs are pretty dead end jobs though. The best we can hope for from those are to do them so well, efficiently, and competently that we will merit a promotion and more responsiblity that comes with better pay. Otherwise, if we want more money than our job is likely to be worth to our employer, we better be studying, learning, educating, or training ourselves to qualify for something better.

Those unwilling to do that pretty well deserve exactly what they get paid.

$1 trillion in outstanding student loans

Studying/learning/training ourselves today is still possible, but its more difficult than yesteryear. Without some parental support, its two slip-ups and you're permanent underclass.

I disagree. The permanent under class is defined by those who are second, third and fourth generations receiving public assistance.
Earlier in a thread regarding "livable wages", another poster lamented that is college graduate children were a landscaper, a bartender and a child care provider.
I presented that poster with easily attainable scenarios which could all potentially make each of his kids successful. That poster , an ideological liberal, never responded to my post.
Quite frankly I am not surprised. I thought I would either get an insulting reply or crickets.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Some jobs are pretty dead end jobs though. The best we can hope for from those are to do them so well, efficiently, and competently that we will merit a promotion and more responsiblity that comes with better pay. Otherwise, if we want more money than our job is likely to be worth to our employer, we better be studying, learning, educating, or training ourselves to qualify for something better.

Those unwilling to do that pretty well deserve exactly what they get paid.

$1 trillion in outstanding student loans

Studying/learning/training ourselves today is still possible, but its more difficult than yesteryear. Without some parental support, its two slip-ups and you're permanent underclass.

I know a fair number of people who are working full time AND putting themselves through college without parental support. They do not in any sense consider themselves permanent underclass.

Get the government out of education and let the free market operate, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more folks thinking the possibilities are much more affordable too.

The number one cause of high tuition at all schools that receive federal subsidies is because the market is non competitive, colleges and universities, continually increase tuition knowing full well few students will pay the full freight.

 

[Gordy]

While one side argues minimum wage is below poverty and need to be higher.Arguably true.The other side say if you raise it to much you will choke out new business.Also true. Minimum wage should be set AT a percentage of the production of a bussiness. When we are debating what that % should be then we are having a real debate. Until then its all talk about nothing...

 

[Foxfyre]

$1 trillion in outstanding student loans

Studying/learning/training ourselves today is still possible, but its more difficult than yesteryear. Without some parental support, its two slip-ups and you're permanent underclass.

I know a fair number of people who are working full time AND putting themselves through college without parental support. They do not in any sense consider themselves permanent underclass.

Get the government out of education and let the free market operate, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more folks thinking the possibilities are much more affordable too.

The number one cause of high tuition at all schools that receive federal subsidies is because the market is non competitive, colleges and universities, continually increase tuition knowing full well few students will pay the full freight.

So we taxpayers can suck it up and continue to subsidize high college tuition, or we get government out of it and allow the free market to operate which will almost always substantially bring down costs.

We just fired an incompetent football coach at the University of New Mexico. Does that mean we now have his salary to use in hiring a new and better coach? Nope. It means that we will pay the incompetent coach $750,000!!!!!! to go away and add the salary of the new coach on top of that.

There is something very very wrong with that scenario when you understand that UNM is a state university funded by the taxpayer and whatever contributions, fees, and tuition it can get.

 

[chanel]

Foxfyre - don't get me started. I am an alumnus of Rutgers - the most expensive state school in the country. The Star Ledger did an expose on the football program that loses millions annually. They also listed all the six figure salaries - and not one was a professor. It is beyond corrupt. Yet when people point fingers, it's rarely at the SCHOOL itself. I was watching CNN this morning about the 3 trillion bubble that's about to burst. Never did they blame the problem on the system. And they had the nerve to segueway (sp?) the conversation into "universal pre-school" because early education leads to college or some shit. They are still drumming for "college for all" These students are being conned.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Very true. Many people go off to college, thinking it's all about having fun and taking classes that they like, and just assume "a college degree" guarantees that they're employable afterward. They never give any thought to whether what they're studying is USEFUL to anyone else, or think to look at the job market and find out if it's already glutted with people with the same degree.

I can't count the number of college students I've talked to, asked what they're majoring in, then said, "With an eye toward doing what when you graduate?" and had them look at me blankly as though I just lasped into Esperanto or something.

So, one should not listen to my school's admissions director. He said that students should study their interests in the theory that many people graduate college and work in a different field from their major (I think he may have studied Latin or something like that).

Many people DO study one thing and then end up working in a field unrelated to those studies. Those would be the aforementioned idiots who thought college was about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars taking "fun" classes and "finding themselves". People who majored in something useful, productive, and employable,however, are more likely to end up working in that same field.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Very true. Many people go off to college, thinking it's all about having fun and taking classes that they like, and just assume "a college degree" guarantees that they're employable afterward. They never give any thought to whether what they're studying is USEFUL to anyone else, or think to look at the job market and find out if it's already glutted with people with the same degree.

I can't count the number of college students I've talked to, asked what they're majoring in, then said, "With an eye toward doing what when you graduate?" and had them look at me blankly as though I just lasped into Esperanto or something.

So, one should not listen to my school's admissions director. He said that students should study their interests in the theory that many people graduate college and work in a different field from their major (I think he may have studied Latin or something like that).

My philosophy is that you major in something marketable and then your are free to minor in anything wherever your heart leads you. My son for instance wanted to be a music major but didn't want to teach full time. So he had a degree in mechanical engineering that he enjoys and has supported him quite nicely, and he minored in music that is his avocation and the love of his life, but doesn't bring in a lot of money.

The important thing is, if you want to live the American dream, you must acquire a skill set that somebody is willing to pay for at the level at which you can be happy. You do that by getting the necessary diploma, but also by apprenticing yourself in the field you want to work. A lot of us acquired our marketable skills that way. It didn't pay much at the time, but paid off in the long run.

It's amazing how taking responsibility for yourself, your future, and your happiness and formulating a realistic plan actually pays off, huh?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Which is your prerogative to do. It doesn't mean we need a law requiring that everyone else do it. Again one of the main reasons not to mandate a living wage is because a lot of people simply don't need it. There is a decent chunk of the workforce made up of teenagers who's parents are providing for their needs, people who take an extra part time job for a little extra money, or spouses supplmenting household incomes. You start making all those companies that pay lower than what a person can live on a living wage and the unemployment rate among that class of jobs goes up. And it goes up needlessly because the people working those jobs didn't really need what you were seeking to provide in the first place.

My idea would only go to those who are 18 and older, no longer in hi school and cannot be carried on any-one else s tax return

That presents another problem. You're then not paying a person based on their value. Under your above condition, two people could be working the same job, same seniority, but one should be paid more according to you because that person is single while the other could still be paid market value because they are a teenager or require supplemental income. How is that fair to the employees or the employer?

I could swear the leftist boobs are always caterwauling about how wrong and evil that very thing is when they insist that women are paid less than men for the same job.

 

[Foxfyre]

So, one should not listen to my school's admissions director. He said that students should study their interests in the theory that many people graduate college and work in a different field from their major (I think he may have studied Latin or something like that).

My philosophy is that you major in something marketable and then your are free to minor in anything wherever your heart leads you. My son for instance wanted to be a music major but didn't want to teach full time. So he had a degree in mechanical engineering that he enjoys and has supported him quite nicely, and he minored in music that is his avocation and the love of his life, but doesn't bring in a lot of money.

The important thing is, if you want to live the American dream, you must acquire a skill set that somebody is willing to pay for at the level at which you can be happy. You do that by getting the necessary diploma, but also by apprenticing yourself in the field you want to work. A lot of us acquired our marketable skills that way. It didn't pay much at the time, but paid off in the long run.

It's amazing how taking responsibility for yourself, your future, and your happiness and formulating a realistic plan actually pays off, huh?

I wish I could say our plans were 'realistic' Almost none of us wound up doing work we ever envisioned in our wildest dreams when we first started out. But the more important thing is that our expectations were realistic. We didn't expect anything we didn't work for or anything we didn't earn and we were realistic about what our labor was worth to an employer. And we knew we had to qualify ourselves for certain promotions or career moves, and we were always confident that if it sucked at the moment, it would be better later on.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not sure I follow your logic. there are laws in place now that prevents a minor to work the same as an adult now I believe

For example a minor and an adult could both be working at a McDonalds. The hours they work are irrelevent. Maybe the teen is only allowed to work 24 hours a week, and the adult wants to work 40. What you're saying is that the adult living on their own should be paid what they need to live on while it is okay to pay the teen less for the same job.

I do not hire minors in the industry I work in, I think it is all ready set up that way so the minor can get a job bagging groceries, etc...

You do realize that grocery baggers are not necessarily always minors, right? Many of the ones working in the supermarkets around where I live are developmentally-disabled adults who live on their wages. And no, minors are not now paid less for their work than adults doing the same job. Typically, they work jobs that can be scheduled around school and extra-curricular activities, and they work part-time, but they get the same hourly wage as their full-time adult counterparts.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself

The profit item is why I use the example of how one bids profit

If my built up, all in composite rate is 40.00 an hour and it takes 0.25 hours to serve a burger from cradle to death then I better be getting at least 11.00 for that burger to make 10% profit.
This is why I made comment the bad thing to have a 12.50 per hour minimum wage would be the dollar for us make 50-75,000 a year will lose value
Not much I would think, but some

How does any of that bullshit make it fair to pay one person less than another for doing the exact same job?

Who said anything about paying any-one more for doing the same job?
I damn sure did not.
Fuck talking to you people is not about the issues, its a constant trap. Can you show where I have ever stated that 2 people doing the same job should get different pay?
you IDIOT

YOU said it, ass clown:

Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself

Sound familiar?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Who said anything about paying any-one more for doing the same job?
I damn sure did not.
Fuck talking to you people is not about the issues, its a constant trap. Can you show where I have ever stated that 2 people doing the same job should get different pay?
you IDIOT

Here ya go:

"Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself"

Hey dick head, that's not the same thing, you went straight to the top of my shit list bud. This was an adult conversation about what we pay adults trying to make a living out here and you fucking race baited me and you know it
Never respond to one of my threads again scum bag

Race baited?! RACE baited!?!

Get the fuck off my screen, you illiterate, driveling oxygen thief.

 

[Contumacious]

For example a minor and an adult could both be working at a McDonalds. The hours they work are irrelevent. Maybe the teen is only allowed to work 24 hours a week, and the adult wants to work 40. What you're saying is that the adult living on their own should be paid what they need to live on while it is okay to pay the teen less for the same job.

I do not hire minors in the industry I work in, I think it is all ready set up that way so the minor can get a job bagging groceries, etc...

You do realize that grocery baggers are not necessarily always minors, right? Many of the ones working in the supermarkets around where I live are developmentally-disabled adults who live on their wages. And no, minors are not now paid less for their work than adults doing the same job. Typically, they work jobs that can be scheduled around school and extra-curricular activities, and they work part-time, but they get the same hourly wage as their full-time adult counterparts.

Sounds to me like a solid argument to abolish the behemoth welfare/warfare/regulatory state. Too motherfucking expensive.

Think about it.

.

 

[JRK]

Here ya go:

Hey dick head, that's not the same thing, you went straight to the top of my shit list bud. This was an adult conversation about what we pay adults trying to make a living out here and you fucking race baited me and you know it
Never respond to one of my threads again scum bag

Race baited?! RACE baited!?!

Get the fuck off my screen, you illiterate, driveling oxygen thief.

Your screen?
Yes your a baiter, that's your game and your intelligence. I began this thread about a living wage, no about minors and what we pay minors
What else is there to call you then?