Exposing The Lie Of Israel Apartheid / Moscow's role

[Sixties Fan]

(full article online)

https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/21/2-idf-majors-become-first-ethiopian-women-named-military-court-judges/

 

[rylah]

You are right. Because the Muslims only really conquerd parts of TWO continents, and were pretty tolerant of other religions. Which is why you can still see Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Coptic Christians, Mandians, Bahai and other religions today. Heck, even the Jews fared better in the Islamic world than they did in the Christian World until they stabbed the Arabs in the back and stole Palestine.

MEANWHILE, the Christians conquered the Americas, Australia, much of Oceania, and Sub-Sahara Africa, oppressed native religions, genocided the shit out of indigenous people, because JESUS LOVES YOU, man!

Now I'm old enough to remember when the Vietnam War was going on, and they demonized the Vietnamese. They are sending their kids out to stab GI's in the balls with punji sticks!!! And then this funny thing happened. After we stopped trying to take over their country, they were kind of fine with us. They even welcomed American investment.

Yes, I'm correct,
these arguments make no sense, they're self-contradictory.
Because it's all based on the false assumption that this conflict is about skin color,
that international relations are better framed this way, than the complexities of the people involved.

For example, the argument used to justify Arab imperialism,
1400 years of mass slavery and colonization defined as 'tolerace'
because " they have left a couple of Yazidi and Jewish reservations"...
is the same argument turned immediately against Western imperialism.

Which is why inquisition is the suggested contrast for the 'tolerance' of Arab imperialism.
The argument falls into the same imperialist logic, not against colonialism, but as its very premise.

But the main flaw, underlying all that circular reasoning,
is the reliance on a racial hierarchy as the preferred framework.
I.e. colonialism is not bad if it fits a preferred category of skin color,
and indigenous civilizations are as good as they submit to the yoke of the majority.

As Jews defy all these categories, daring to re-constitute their nation,
despite the odds as a minority, naturally raises many inconvenient questions,
regarding the relevance of both Western and Arab imperialism for the future of everyone.

(QUESTION)

Then how is the "Palestine for Brown",
different from the "USA for Whites" argument?
And what is it called when a crime is defined by skin color?

 

[rylah]

Apartheid...

'illegally white' Jews

"Putin - give us more Ukrainian women!"

 

[rylah]

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, I'm correct,
these arguments make no sense, they're self-contradictory.
Because it's all based on the false assumption that this conflict is about skin color,
that international relations are better framed this way, than the complexities of the people involved.

There are no "complexities". A bunch of European squatters took land from indigenous people. This isn't complicated at all.

For example, the argument used to justify Arab imperialism,
1400 years of mass slavery and colonization defined as 'tolerace'
because " they have left a couple of Yazidi and Jewish reservations"...
is the same argument turned immediately against Western imperialism.

Except you can't really argue that. Western Imperialism in the Americas and Australia was outright genocidal. You won't find a worshipper of Quetzalcoatl or Inti today because the Christians completely wiped out their worship. Now, compare that to Palestine, where Christians remained in the majority even after the Muslim conquest, and remained so until the Crusades ended.

But the main flaw, underlying all that circular reasoning,
is the reliance on a racial hierarchy as the preferred framework.
I.e. colonialism is not bad if it fits a preferred category of skin color,
and indigenous civilizations are as good as they submit to the yoke of the majority.

The problem here is that the expansion of Islam wasn't really the same as European Imperialism. The Caliphate expanded but then quickly broke up, but the people who converted to Islam remained Muslims because it had a religious appeal.

As Jews defy all these categories, daring to re-constitute their nation,
despite the odds as a minority, naturally raises many inconvenient questions,
regarding the relevance of both Western and Arab imperialism for the future of everyone.

Meh, not really. I think even a lot of Jews are starting to realize Zionism is a bad idea, which is why you see so many people immigrating out of Israel faster than they can recruit them from impoverished former Soviet countries. The only reason why the Zionist Entity continues is because Funditarded Christians in America support it thinking they need Israel for Jay-a-zus to come back.

Then how is the "Palestine for Brown",
different from the "USA for Whites" argument?
And what is it called when a crime is defined by skin color?

Well, mostly because "America for Whites" was achieved by exterminating Native Americans and enslaving black people. It's nothing to be proud of, and America is starting to come to terms with it now. Which is why we are having all these fights over statues of old dead white guys.

Palestine for Brown would just be resetting what existed before the British started dumping Jewish Squatters into Palestine.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Please discuss the existence or lack of existence of Apartheid in Israel on this thread. Only. Thank you.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

There is widespread allegation -- really a slander -- that Israel is an apartheid state.
That notion is simply wrong.
It is inaccurate and it is malicious.
And it will not help to promote peace and harmony in the Middle East. Its only purpose is to demonize Israel, and to isolate her in an attempt to de-legitimize Israel’s existence.
And because it is so inaccurate, it betrays the memory of those who suffered through a real apartheid.
As a black South African, who was born under apartheid, in the administrative capital of South Africa, Pretoria, I know what apartheid is. I’ve experienced it. My parents experienced it.
But having been to Israel on a number of occasions, I know that nothing is happening in that country -- that I have either seen or read -- that can be compared to apartheid in South Africa.
Let’s remember the major reason Nelson Mandela went to prison -- why he was involved with the armed struggle. He was fighting for the right to vote, for the right to choose the leaders who one believes in, for the right to move and travel freely, to live wherever one wants, to be educated, and to be admitted to the hospital or medical facility of your choice.
All these things Mandela fought for because black people never enjoyed any of them in their very own country. For example, when I had to see a white doctor -- a white doctor who was prepared to have black patients -- I would have go to a back room, a specially segregated room where black patients of white doctors went who could never enter through the same door that was used by white people.
Now compare that to Israel. Three years ago, a black pastor friend of mine went to Israel where he had an accident and had to be hospitalized. When he came back to South Africa, he said to as many people as he could, that the people who are talking about apartheid in Israel are talking nonsense.
“When I was in that hospital in Israel,” he tells people, “on my right was sleeping a Jew and on my left was a Palestinian Muslim and in between that Palestinian Muslim and that Jew was this black South African.”

(full article online)

https://assets.ctfassets.net/qnesrjodfi80/2urkHEgcJSm40QqyKEik4e/c15026fb516624af0a2088df06500e50/meshoe-a_black_south_african_on_israel_and_apartheid-transcript.pdf

 

[Sixties Fan]

There are some who would seek to have the Christian churches distance themselves from the state of Israel. There is a call for the churches to join the boycott divestment sanctions (BDS) movement. It would be a big victory, indeed, for the Palestinians to convince some of the biggest allies of the state of Israel to remove their support.



This call is based on the claim that Israel is an apartheid state and, secondly, that negotiations have not been successful as a strategy for peace. These two premises are both incorrect. Allow me to elaborate.

Like Ms. Rothchild, I used to support the BDS movement, but I withdrew my support after I visited Israel and Palestine (the West Bank).

Having been there, having seen what the BDS movement calls "apartheid," I have to say that calling Israel an apartheid state is an insult to black South Africans who suffered under the now defunct system of strict racial segregation.
And I feel a terrible loss of the true black South African apartheid narrative, because the term has been appropriated to wrongly label Israel when referring to conflict with Palestine.

(full article online)

Apartheid was colonialism on steroids.



For Israel to be an apartheid state, it would have to be a colonial entity. The comparison of Israel to South Africa, from the view of a South African, is not correct. It would require us to ignore the archeological history of the Jewish people. Up until 1948, Jewish communities existed throughout the West Bank. They were all forced out. It is ahistorical to consider a people with ties stretching over thousands of years to an area as a colonizer after being expelled and returning home 19 years later in 1967. Israelis are not some colonizers from Europe. They are a community that is nation building in an area where they have always lived.

Indeed, the prodigal son was not viewed as an alien by his own father.

Another difference between the situation in Israel and the West Bank is that, unlike the South Africa, where the oppressed blacks were mostly peaceful, Israel has faced multiple wars started by its neighbors and faces ongoing attacks against Jewish Israelis by a significant segment of the Palestinian people. This is what has led to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the West Bank. This war-zone environment sets true apartheid apart from the Israel-Palestine conflict.

(full article online)

Calling Israel an apartheid state is an insult to black South Africans (OPINION)

By Leon Jamaine Mithi I am from Zimbabwe and grew up under the strictest regime of apartheid in South Africa. Today, I am an author and law student at University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa. I am an...

www.oregonlive.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Many Palestinian workers prefer to work in Israel rather than in the PA. Hoping to improve their income and living standards, Palestinians leave their local job market and come to Israel, mostly to work in the construction sector.

They make this decision due to the higher salaries in Israel, the more orderly conditions, and the benefits. Moreover, receiving salaries in the PA after the job has been done also proves difficult at times, as one Palestinian construction worker explained:

“Musa Suleiman, 49, from the town of Dir Balut west of Salfit has worked in the construction sector in the Palestinian [job] market. Three years ago, he decided to leave to work in the Israeli market.
Suleiman said: ‘I learned the trade from my father who was a builder, and slowly I mastered construction and became skilled… But the low salary here among us and the high [salary] in Israel caused me to leave to work there, with the hope that I will be able to improve my income… The salary here is low, and collecting it is liable to last months or years after the work has been completed, following foot-dragging and splitting into payments… Many workers work in the market of the occupation state (Israel) [parentheses in source]. Alsothe work hours are limited, the rights are clear, and there are payments to which we are eligible.’”
[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, March 16, 2022]

(full article online)

Palestinians prefer to work in Israel rather than PA due to higher salaries, better conditions, and benefits | PMW Analysis

Many Palestinian workers prefer to work in Israel rather than in the PA. Hoping to improve their income and living standards, Palestinians leave their local job market and come to Israel, mostly to work in the construction sector.

palwatch.org

 

[rylah]

There are no "complexities". A bunch of European squatters took land from indigenous people. This isn't complicated at all.

Except you can't really argue that. Western Imperialism in the Americas and Australia was outright genocidal. You won't find a worshipper of Quetzalcoatl or Inti today because the Christians completely wiped out their worship. Now, compare that to Palestine, where Christians remained in the majority even after the Muslim conquest, and remained so until the Crusades ended.

The problem here is that the expansion of Islam wasn't really the same as European Imperialism. The Caliphate expanded but then quickly broke up, but the people who converted to Islam remained Muslims because it had a religious appeal.

Meh, not really. I think even a lot of Jews are starting to realize Zionism is a bad idea, which is why you see so many people immigrating out of Israel faster than they can recruit them from impoverished former Soviet countries. The only reason why the Zionist Entity continues is because Funditarded Christians in America support it thinking they need Israel for Jay-a-zus to come back.

Well, mostly because "America for Whites" was achieved by exterminating Native Americans and enslaving black people. It's nothing to be proud of, and America is starting to come to terms with it now. Which is why we are having all these fights over statues of old dead white guys.

Palestine for Brown would just be resetting what existed before the British started dumping Jewish Squatters into Palestine.

Of course, there're complexities,
which fail that argument at every level.

Otherwise, you wouldn't overcompensate
with generalizations about "European squatters",
and the "horrors of Christianity" while resorting to Islamist apologetics.

 

[rylah]

The thing is, all religions are bad. But frankly, I was brought up as a post-Vatican 2 Catholic. Which means the Church was falling all over itself to distance itself from anti-Semitism. I didn't find out until College just how much in bed the Catholic Church was with the Nazis. Of course, I did have my suspicions.. When I asked the Nuns why the Vatican didn't denounce Nazi Germany during the war, I got a nice whack over the knuckles. I got whacked over the knuckles a lot for questioning the bullshit.
Why did God drown all the babies? Whack!
Why do we have so many statue if the Bible says no graven images? WHACK!
If homosexuality is bad, why is Fr. O'Brien such a fruit? Whack! .

View attachment 616609

So you are quite right... 12 years of Catholic Education did teach me that ANY asshole who comes to you with a fishy story about how "God" justifies their bad behavior, is to be treated with scorn.



You might be on to something, but not as much as you think. All religions kind of influence each other. Christianity was a mixture of Judean Moralism, Persian mysticism and Greek humanism. Judaism itself has been highly influenced by Zoroaster's. Our visions of hell have more to do with Milton and Dante than anything in the Bible. If you picked up Bronze Age Hebrew in your Blue Box and dropped his ass into a modern synagogue, he would have no idea what he was looking at.

View attachment 616608
And of course, all religions today try to distance themselves from the really awful stuff in the bible that advocates slavery, genocide, child abuse, racism. In a couple of decades, all the religions will be distancing themselves from homophobia.



You are right, I can't see that because after 2000 years of interbreeding with Europeans.... you guys are Europeans. You aren't an indigenous people, you are a colonizing invader.



Ah, yes, so the Zionists have moved away from "There's a scary Islamist under your bed" to "There's a scary Russian in your closet!"

The problem isn't that Christianity is anti-Semetic, it's that there are a lot of really stupid fundi-tarded Christians who think that we need Jews in Palestine for Jesus to come back and end the world. (I'm always fascinated by the desire of Christians for this to happen, like they are looking forward to all the misery the apocolypse will cause people. That's almost as fucked up as living next to people who want to murder you because a sky pixie said so.)

The problem here is that we have spent the last 50 years stuck to the Middle East Tar Baby. Instead, we should have been trying to get away from it. We keep trying to balance the lock the Zionist Lobby has on our politicians in Washington (both parties) with the desperate need we have for oil.

The thing is, all religions are bad.

Yeah, explains the Islamist apologetics

...it's the nuns...

 

[JoeB131]

Of course, there're complexities,
which fail that argument at every level.

Otherwise, you wouldn't overcompensate
with generalizations about "European squatters",
and the "horrors of Christianity" while resorting to Islamist apologetics.

Here's the problem. I don't "Apologize" for Muslims. I question why we have anything to do with them at all.
Whatever expansionism they were engaged in pretty much ended with the Ottomans.
If we (the US and the west at large) have any problem in the Middle East, it is because of our attempts to colonize their lands, either through what the Europeans did when carving up the Ottoman Lands, or through the support of the Zionist Entity, or our constantly meddling in their internal politics which blows up in our faces.

Fun Fact. Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were both guys that the CIA thought we could work with.

So imagine this. We stop supporting Israel. We stop meddling in the Middle East. We take a strict stance of neutrality towards the region. We then take some of that nearly Trillion dollars a year we spend on defense and foreign aid, and we spend it becoming energy independent. Hopefully, with an energy source that won't render the planet uninhabitable in a few centuries.

 

[rylah]

Here's the problem. I don't "Apologize" for Muslims. I question why we have anything to do with them at all.
Whatever expansionism they were engaged in pretty much ended with the Ottomans.
If we (the US and the west at large) have any problem in the Middle East, it is because of our attempts to colonize their lands, either through what the Europeans did when carving up the Ottoman Lands, or through the support of the Zionist Entity, or our constantly meddling in their internal politics which blows up in our faces.

Fun Fact. Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were both guys that the CIA thought we could work with.

So imagine this. We stop supporting Israel. We stop meddling in the Middle East. We take a strict stance of neutrality towards the region. We then take some of that nearly Trillion dollars a year we spend on defense and foreign aid, and we spend it becoming energy independent. Hopefully, with an energy source that won't render the planet uninhabitable in a few centuries.

This is a common argument in Islamist apologetics,
trying to overcompensate a flawed doctrine,
by absolving one side of any responsibility
entirely projected on everyone else.

Indeed a problem, it fails.

As much as equating "neutrality",
to demands for exclusive Arab domination,
at the expense of all involved in the Middle East.

Muslims Demand Right to Return to Spain

Following the recent approval of a law that would grant Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492, a number of Muslim groups are now demanding similar grace for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle...

spanishvida.com