Factcheck.org: judging Obama's presidency based on FACTS not hyperbole or rhetoric

[TemplarKormac]

This thread is partly inspired by welfarequeen's poll on how USMB members grade Obama's presidency. The large majority of you gave Obama an F which, in my opinion, is completely unfair and is an obvious indication of willful ignorance.

It isn't fair? Butthurt much? It's an honest assessment. At some point you have to stop shielding him from the harsh reality that he just plain sucks. And you put him there. Good job. Not.

 

[Papageorgio]

No one is denying the economy still sucks. Do you really think a different president could have done much better? Based on what? This economic downturn is unlike any in history. Even economists do not fully understand how things could have gotten so bad.

So in your mind Obama is a failure. What's Bush? A super failure? Your pessimism is unfair. Give Obama credit for something.

Bush was ok his first term, failure in his second, Obama is a failure both terms.

Well obviously you are being disingenuous because his presidency is in year 5.

With his botching of health care? His second term and repercussions of health care on the economy...things are not looking good. I do hope I'm wrong.

 

[Oldstyle]

What certainty? Explain how Obama has created uncertainty. Profits are at an all time high. Why they can't hire more based on that is beyond me.

Billy, think about this from the viewpoint of an executive of a large corporation that is looking to build a brand new factory to produce "widgets" and will be hiring somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 people to work at this factory.

You've got obligations to your stockholders to make a profit. In truth your JOB depends on that! If you don't make the stockholders money you WILL be out on your ear.

So here are your choices when you and your team sit down to discuss this. You can build the new factory in the United States or you can build it in India or China. To build it in the US you have one of the highest corporate taxes in the world...something that's not there in India or China. So right off the bat you'll be making less profits in the US because you'll be paying more in taxes. Then one of your best and brightest analysts brings up the fact that your widget factory will be consuming a large amount of energy. he raises the specter of the EPA once again being allowed to enforce new green house gas regulations on factories. That makes everyone at the table wince trying to figure out what THAT might do to costs. Then someone else points out that the Obama Administration has stacked the Labor Relations Board with far left unionists and brings up the problems THAT will present if the widget machinist's union were to ask for mediation on wages or working conditions. Fat chance of getting a favorable ruling there someone points out. Then another person brings up the calls for minimum wage increases and how if minimum wages go up then other wages will go up as well. You look at your head bean counter and ask for an estimate of what THAT will cost the bottom line. In response you get a shrug and a "God knows, Boss...it could be huge."

So tell me, Billy...if you were a betting man? What are the odds that factory will be built anywhere ELSE but in the US after that kind of a meeting? THAT is why jobs aren't being created under this Administration. Industry is either sitting out the recovery or they are taking their business elsewhere. That's reality.

And yet stockholders are richer than ever. Obama wanted to lower the corporate tax rate to 28% at one point. Give me the evidence that says EPA regulations have CAUSED economic harm.

Do you really not grasp what would have happened if the EPA was allowed to put those stricter greenhouse gas regulations into place? Businesses make decisions based on what they think will happen in the future. If you propose things like ObamaCare, Cap & Trade, Card Check, a higher minimum wage, then businesses will take those things into consideration when determining if they will expand or contract and whether that will take place here in the US or in a country that isn't proposing those new regulations.

The fact is Barack Obama backed off on allowing those stricter greenhouse gas regulations to be enforced by the EPA because enough of his fellow Democrats screamed bloody murder that allowing the EPA to do so would devastate jobs in their areas and they would pay the price politically. Barry wanted that policy but wasn't able to get it. The mere threat however affected business leader's decisions on where to expand their businesses.

 

[Billy000]

Billy, think about this from the viewpoint of an executive of a large corporation that is looking to build a brand new factory to produce "widgets" and will be hiring somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 people to work at this factory.

You've got obligations to your stockholders to make a profit. In truth your JOB depends on that! If you don't make the stockholders money you WILL be out on your ear.

So here are your choices when you and your team sit down to discuss this. You can build the new factory in the United States or you can build it in India or China. To build it in the US you have one of the highest corporate taxes in the world...something that's not there in India or China. So right off the bat you'll be making less profits in the US because you'll be paying more in taxes. Then one of your best and brightest analysts brings up the fact that your widget factory will be consuming a large amount of energy. he raises the specter of the EPA once again being allowed to enforce new green house gas regulations on factories. That makes everyone at the table wince trying to figure out what THAT might do to costs. Then someone else points out that the Obama Administration has stacked the Labor Relations Board with far left unionists and brings up the problems THAT will present if the widget machinist's union were to ask for mediation on wages or working conditions. Fat chance of getting a favorable ruling there someone points out. Then another person brings up the calls for minimum wage increases and how if minimum wages go up then other wages will go up as well. You look at your head bean counter and ask for an estimate of what THAT will cost the bottom line. In response you get a shrug and a "God knows, Boss...it could be huge."

So tell me, Billy...if you were a betting man? What are the odds that factory will be built anywhere ELSE but in the US after that kind of a meeting? THAT is why jobs aren't being created under this Administration. Industry is either sitting out the recovery or they are taking their business elsewhere. That's reality.

And yet stockholders are richer than ever. Obama wanted to lower the corporate tax rate to 28% at one point. Give me the evidence that says EPA regulations have CAUSED economic harm.

Do you really not grasp what would have happened if the EPA was allowed to put those stricter greenhouse gas regulations into place? Businesses make decisions based on what they think will happen in the future. If you propose things like ObamaCare, Cap & Trade, Card Check, a higher minimum wage, then businesses will take those things into consideration when determining if they will expand or contract and whether that will take place here in the US or in a country that isn't proposing those new regulations.

The fact is Barack Obama backed off on allowing those stricter greenhouse gas regulations to be enforced by the EPA because enough of his fellow Democrats screamed bloody murder that allowing the EPA to do so would devastate jobs in their areas and they would pay the price politically. Barry wanted that policy but wasn't able to get it. The mere threat however affected business leader's decisions on where to expand their businesses.

Is there a reason why your reply only focused on EPA regulations?

 

[WelfareQueen]

No one is denying the economy still sucks. Do you really think a different president could have done much better? Based on what? This economic downturn is unlike any in history. Even economists do not fully understand how things could have gotten so bad.

So in your mind Obama is a failure. What's Bush? A super failure? Your pessimism is unfair. Give Obama credit for something.

I think Obama's policies have created a great deal of uncertainty which has kept down hiring. But, to be fair, the globalization of the world economy means many good American jobs continue to be shipped overseas to places like India and China. Those are jobs we will probably never see again.

I hold both Democrats and Republicans equally responsible for it the globalization clusterfuck. Both Party's have taken the corporate money and sold the rest of us down the river.

What certainty? Explain how Obama has created uncertainty. Profits are at an all time high. Why they can't hire more based on that is beyond me.

Let's also not forget that there are many jobs available that can't be filled because there is lack of people qualified for them. Obama tried fixing this problem by proposing job training programs at community colleges. But, of course, Repubs blocked it.

1. Obamacare= uncertainty for everyone in America. That is without question.


2. Profit are up largely because the Fed has been pumping almost $100,000,000,000.00 a month into the economy for the last three years. If that stops....bye bye wall street.

 

[Billy000]

I think Obama's policies have created a great deal of uncertainty which has kept down hiring. But, to be fair, the globalization of the world economy means many good American jobs continue to be shipped overseas to places like India and China. Those are jobs we will probably never see again.

I hold both Democrats and Republicans equally responsible for it the globalization clusterfuck. Both Party's have taken the corporate money and sold the rest of us down the river.

What certainty? Explain how Obama has created uncertainty. Profits are at an all time high. Why they can't hire more based on that is beyond me.

Let's also not forget that there are many jobs available that can't be filled because there is lack of people qualified for them. Obama tried fixing this problem by proposing job training programs at community colleges. But, of course, Repubs blocked it.

1. Obamacare= uncertainty for everyone in America. That is without question.


2. Profit are up largely because the Fed has been pumping almost $100,000,000,000.00 a month into the economy for the last three years. If that stops....bye bye wall street.

Bill Maher posted this on his FB today: "ObamaCare: things that started off as jokes went onto huge success: EuroDisney, Spiderman musical... Ronald Reagan. Chin up!"

 

[TemplarKormac]

What certainty? Explain how Obama has created uncertainty. Profits are at an all time high. Why they can't hire more based on that is beyond me.

Let's also not forget that there are many jobs available that can't be filled because there is lack of people qualified for them. Obama tried fixing this problem by proposing job training programs at community colleges. But, of course, Repubs blocked it.

1. Obamacare= uncertainty for everyone in America. That is without question.


2. Profit are up largely because the Fed has been pumping almost $100,000,000,000.00 a month into the economy for the last three years. If that stops....bye bye wall street.

Bill Maher posted this on his FB today: "ObamaCare: things that started off as jokes went onto huge success: EuroDisney, Spiderman musical... Ronald Reagan. Chin up!"

Bill Maher is a comedian, a bad one at that. No wonder you liberals are so wayward. Try taking your 'encouragement' from a more credible source.

 

[Billy000]

1. Obamacare= uncertainty for everyone in America. That is without question.


2. Profit are up largely because the Fed has been pumping almost $100,000,000,000.00 a month into the economy for the last three years. If that stops....bye bye wall street.

Bill Maher posted this on his FB today: "ObamaCare: things that started off as jokes went onto huge success: EuroDisney, Spiderman musical... Ronald Reagan. Chin up!"

Bill Maher is a comedian, a bad one at that. No wonder you liberals are so wayward. Try taking your 'encouragement' from a more credible source.

Why does Bill Maher being a comedian automatically mean he is not a credible source? Clearly you have never even watched his show. He is the most reliable political commentator, left or right. His opinions are consistently guided by facts. Glenn Beck on the other hand smears his poo on a chalkboard.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Bill Maher posted this on his FB today: "ObamaCare: things that started off as jokes went onto huge success: EuroDisney, Spiderman musical... Ronald Reagan. Chin up!"

Bill Maher is a comedian, a bad one at that. No wonder you liberals are so wayward. Try taking your 'encouragement' from a more credible source.

Why does Bill Maher being a comedian automatically mean he is not a credible source? Clearly you have never even watched his show. He is the most reliable political commentator, left or right. His opinions are consistently guided by facts. Glenn Beck on the other hand smears his poo on a chalkboard.

Because he satirizes everything he sees. He's a walking version of The Onion. His opinions are driven out of spite, and he only uses facts when he is forced to. He is a malcontent, he was during the 2008 election, as well as the 2012 election. He made very crude remarks about women and conservatives on his show a few times, most notably Sarah Palin.

Like I said, you would be wise to derive your knowledge from a more credible source.

 

[Politico]

The most satirical thing about Maher is that toupee.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The most satirical thing about Maher is that toupee.

Sure, tell that to Trig Palin.

 

[Billy000]

Bill Maher is a comedian, a bad one at that. No wonder you liberals are so wayward. Try taking your 'encouragement' from a more credible source.

Why does Bill Maher being a comedian automatically mean he is not a credible source? Clearly you have never even watched his show. He is the most reliable political commentator, left or right. His opinions are consistently guided by facts. Glenn Beck on the other hand smears his poo on a chalkboard.

Because he satirizes everything he sees. He's a walking version of The Onion. His opinions are driven out of spite, and he only uses facts when he is forced to. He is a malcontent, he was during the 2008 election, as well as the 2012 election. He made very crude remarks about women and conservatives on his show a few times, most notably Sarah Palin.

Like I said, you would be wise to derive your knowledge from a more credible source.

And like i said, how about you watch his show all the way through? Bill Maher is very respectful to women. He isn't respectful to Sarah Palin because she's an idiot. He's disrespectful to anyone that's an idiot. That's part of being a comedian. Jon Stewart is the same way. However, he is ALWAYS respectful to his guests. Even Ann Coulter will tell you that (they are friends believe it or not).

Where else on tv are you going to find a political talk show with a panel that always has at least one conservative and one liberal? It's not just the man that makes his show great - its his show's format.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why does Bill Maher being a comedian automatically mean he is not a credible source? Clearly you have never even watched his show. He is the most reliable political commentator, left or right. His opinions are consistently guided by facts. Glenn Beck on the other hand smears his poo on a chalkboard.

Because he satirizes everything he sees. He's a walking version of The Onion. His opinions are driven out of spite, and he only uses facts when he is forced to. He is a malcontent, he was during the 2008 election, as well as the 2012 election. He made very crude remarks about women and conservatives on his show a few times, most notably Sarah Palin.

Like I said, you would be wise to derive your knowledge from a more credible source.

And like i said, how about you watch his show all the way through? Bill Maher is very respectful to women. He isn't respectful to Sarah Palin because she's an idiot. He's disrespectful to anyone that's an idiot. That's part of being a comedian. Jon Stewart is the same way. However, he is ALWAYS respectful to his guests. Even Ann Coulter will tell you that (they are friends believe it or not).

Where else on tv are you going to find a political talk show with a panel that always has at least one conservative and one liberal? It's not just the man that makes his show great - its his show's format.

Ha! He's respectful to women? On what planet do you live? Like I said. I'm allergic to bullshit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2OUJ8ZUTiI]Bill Maher about Sarah Palin - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGE3G5kfzps]Low-brow: Bill Maher says Sarah Palin is a 'dumb twat' - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why does Bill Maher being a comedian automatically mean he is not a credible source? Clearly you have never even watched his show. He is the most reliable political commentator, left or right. His opinions are consistently guided by facts. Glenn Beck on the other hand smears his poo on a chalkboard.

Because he satirizes everything he sees. He's a walking version of The Onion. His opinions are driven out of spite, and he only uses facts when he is forced to. He is a malcontent, he was during the 2008 election, as well as the 2012 election. He made very crude remarks about women and conservatives on his show a few times, most notably Sarah Palin.

Like I said, you would be wise to derive your knowledge from a more credible source.

Where else on tv are you going to find a political talk show with a panel that always has at least one conservative and one liberal? It's not just the man that makes his show great - its his show's format.

Sure, ever watch Fox News? Oh wait, only Republicans, Tea Partiers and Racists watch that channel.

 

[Billy000]

Because he satirizes everything he sees. He's a walking version of The Onion. His opinions are driven out of spite, and he only uses facts when he is forced to. He is a malcontent, he was during the 2008 election, as well as the 2012 election. He made very crude remarks about women and conservatives on his show a few times, most notably Sarah Palin.

Like I said, you would be wise to derive your knowledge from a more credible source.

Where else on tv are you going to find a political talk show with a panel that always has at least one conservative and one liberal? It's not just the man that makes his show great - its his show's format.

Sure, ever watch Fox News? Oh wait, only Republicans, Tea Partiers and Racists watch that channel.

Well yeah. All those type of people do watch Fox News. Are you trying to say that Fox News makes an effort to get the story from both sides? That's a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke.

Oh sure, they'll dangle liberals like Alan Combs in front of the camera for a few minutes, but he is always drowned out by the conservative goons. I've watched plenty of Fox News. They usually have a panel of 3 conservatives with ONE liberal. And like i said, they are drowned out. See FN wants you to believe they make an effort to be fair, but that's all smoke and mirrors.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Where else on tv are you going to find a political talk show with a panel that always has at least one conservative and one liberal? It's not just the man that makes his show great - its his show's format.

Sure, ever watch Fox News? Oh wait, only Republicans, Tea Partiers and Racists watch that channel.

Well yeah. All those type of people do watch Fox News. Are you trying to say that Fox News makes an effort to get the story from both sides? That's a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke.

It's not a joke. There's Bob Beckel, Juan Williams and others. You'd know if you would watch it every now and then.

 

[Billy000]

Sure, ever watch Fox News? Oh wait, only Republicans, Tea Partiers and Racists watch that channel.

Well yeah. All those type of people do watch Fox News. Are you trying to say that Fox News makes an effort to get the story from both sides? That's a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke.

It's not a joke. There's Bob Beckel, Juan Williams and others. You'd know if you would watch it every now and then.

I do. I edited my last post. Read it again.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think Obama's policies have created a great deal of uncertainty which has kept down hiring. But, to be fair, the globalization of the world economy means many good American jobs continue to be shipped overseas to places like India and China. Those are jobs we will probably never see again.

I hold both Democrats and Republicans equally responsible for it the globalization clusterfuck. Both Party's have taken the corporate money and sold the rest of us down the river.

What certainty? Explain how Obama has created uncertainty. Profits are at an all time high. Why they can't hire more based on that is beyond me.

Let's also not forget that there are many jobs available that can't be filled because there is lack of people qualified for them. Obama tried fixing this problem by proposing job training programs at community colleges. But, of course, Repubs blocked it.

1. Obamacare= uncertainty for everyone in America. That is without question.


2. Profit are up largely because the Fed has been pumping almost $100,000,000,000.00 a month into the economy for the last three years. If that stops....bye bye wall street.

No. Profits are up because businesses have been investing in cost savings over increased production. Note that productivity is much higher now, which comes from cutting costs.
There is only so much profit that comes from other than the top line. Additionaly a lot of that profit was generated overseas and cannot be repatriated.

But this has been explained to Billy many times. ANd he keeps bleating the same thing: the stock market is up as are corporate profits. So how can Obama be a failure?
There is no explaining facts to someone who cannot focus on more than one or two metrics.

 

[Billy000]

What certainty? Explain how Obama has created uncertainty. Profits are at an all time high. Why they can't hire more based on that is beyond me.

Let's also not forget that there are many jobs available that can't be filled because there is lack of people qualified for them. Obama tried fixing this problem by proposing job training programs at community colleges. But, of course, Repubs blocked it.

1. Obamacare= uncertainty for everyone in America. That is without question.


2. Profit are up largely because the Fed has been pumping almost $100,000,000,000.00 a month into the economy for the last three years. If that stops....bye bye wall street.

No. Profits are up because businesses have been investing in cost savings over increased production. Note that productivity is much higher now, which comes from cutting costs.
There is only so much profit that comes from other than the top line. Additionaly a lot of that profit was generated overseas and cannot be repatriated.

But this has been explained to Billy many times. ANd he keeps bleating the same thing: the stock market is up as are corporate profits. So how can Obama be a failure?
There is no explaining facts to someone who cannot focus on more than one or two metrics.

Hmm how many times has this been explained to me? You're so full of shit.

Also, I never said Obama was the reason corporate profits were up. Try and keep up.

 

[Stephanie]

Notice the yeah, but but but....

they are still making excuses for the Dear leader

they want to desperately overlook what the American people are telling them...that they think he sucks at pretty much everything

approval RATING-in the 30's tsk tsk

I wouldn't take anything from politifact as the gospel truth

but when some people are desperate