Faith is Born from Fear

[PostmodernProph]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

Do the gawds approve of your making threats on their behalf?

It's obvious you never took the time to actually read the genesis fable and acknowledge the contradictions. That's why you're sidestepping the issue of your gawds lying. Don't you thumpers rattle on about how sin is an affront to the gawds?

Very clearly we can see that per the genesis fable, evil already exists in the garden before A&E were magically placed there, else it cannot be a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man at this point in the narrative has nothing to do nor any knowledge of either good or evil. Hence evil must predate Man in order for there to be a choice.

Consider this a life lesson: we non-believers in your particular version of religious faith frequently know more about the faith than you thumpers who simply have bought into the dogma you were given.

apparently you've never partaken.....you lack knowledge of good or evil......

 

[AtheistBuddah]

They aren't my facts. They're just the facts.

Sorry,, but when you equate fundamentalist Christians and Young Earth Creationist, you are making up your own facts.

The two are somewhat synonymous, but I will concede that not entirely so. I would say that all YECs are fundamentalists but not all fundamentalists are YECs in the same way that all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Otherwise it isn't fair.

lol....I have to let you steep in your own ignorance because the alternative isn't fair?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

 

[PostmodernProph]

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

The Bible says that no one is innocent except for Jesus.

In which case your bible is wrong. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. A newborn child is innocent until it is capable of knowing right from wrong. So your bible is demanding you to believe something that is patently absurd and misplaces the onus onto proving innocence rather than guilt. That is assbackwards in my opinion.

 

[Hollie]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

Do the gawds approve of your making threats on their behalf?

It's obvious you never took the time to actually read the genesis fable and acknowledge the contradictions. That's why you're sidestepping the issue of your gawds lying. Don't you thumpers rattle on about how sin is an affront to the gawds?

Very clearly we can see that per the genesis fable, evil already exists in the garden before A&E were magically placed there, else it cannot be a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man at this point in the narrative has nothing to do nor any knowledge of either good or evil. Hence evil must predate Man in order for there to be a choice.

Consider this a life lesson: we non-believers in your particular version of religious faith frequently know more about the faith than you thumpers who simply have bought into the dogma you were given.

apparently you've never partaken.....you lack knowledge of good or evil......

Obviously, you're unable to reconcile the errors and contradictions in the bibles. You just accept the dogma with unquestioning "belief".

Anybody can make an absolute claim. Religions and fundies do that all the time. But that says nothing about whether the claims are true or not. Most religions make absolute claims, and most of those claims contradict each other. Therefore the only certainty is that most absolute dogmatic religious claims are actually false

 

[Hollie]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

Sorry. Tele-evangelists are too numerous to count. They live well from fleecing you fundies. They prey upon your fears and superstitions and yet, you return to the Altar of being Fleeced like smack addicts to a needle.

 

[Hollie]

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

The Bible says that no one is innocent except for Jesus.

In which case your bible is wrong. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. A newborn child is innocent until it is capable of knowing right from wrong. So your bible is demanding you to believe something that is patently absurd and misplaces the onus onto proving innocence rather than guilt. That is assbackwards in my opinion.

Televangelist Jimmy Swaggart making a comeback with network

 

[sealybobo]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

What makes your church better/different?

And what is it you don't like about televangelists?

 

[sealybobo]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

Sorry. Tele-evangelists are too numerous to count. They live well from fleecing you fundies. They prey upon your fears and superstitions and yet, you return to the Altar of being Fleeced like smack addicts to a needle.

Church offers them community and eternal life. What a great scam.

I remember when I was in college my friends said, "I'll never join a fraternity because that's paying for your friends". Well that's exactly what church goers do. They pay dues and put money in the collection plate so they can hang out.

And the angle that says being a member will get you into heaven is brilliant!

George Carlin was right. Greatest bs story ever told.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

What makes your church better/different?

And what is it you don't like about televangelists?

pretty much everything is the answer to both questions......

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Give us some examples of the fatal flaws that come with the argument for evolution.

When I add up all the evidence for god, I realize there probably is no god. At least not the god theists say they talk to and worship.

I would be more than willing to show you the fatal flaws in evolution, right after you point out where I said they exist. Since I did not say that, I see no reason to play your childish games.

On the other hand, why don't you explain to me why the God I talk to doesn't exist. Keep in mind before you start that you have no idea what I believe, and thus have no way to actually refute those beliefs. All you have is your belief in what you think I believe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Your complaints regarding interpretations of religious dogma appears to be with one of more of the various subdivisions of Christianity.

I don't have any complains about the interpretation of dogma, I ignore all dogma. The problem here is that you think that dogma controls everyone who disagrees with you. That makes you an idiot.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And as usual, you are never able to actually refute the flaws, errors and contradictions that exist in your dogma. You merely recoil in shocked surprise when they're pointed out.

Apparently, you do not speak English.

I do not care about the laws in your belief system, they are irrelevant to me. The only thing that matters to me are my beliefs, which you know nothing about.

 

[sealybobo]

Give us some examples of the fatal flaws that come with the argument for evolution.

When I add up all the evidence for god, I realize there probably is no god. At least not the god theists say they talk to and worship.

I would be more than willing to show you the fatal flaws in evolution, right after you point out where I said they exist. Since I did not say that, I see no reason to play your childish games.

On the other hand, why don't you explain to me why the God I talk to doesn't exist. Keep in mind before you start that you have no idea what I believe, and thus have no way to actually refute those beliefs. All you have is your belief in what you think I believe.

The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

 

[sealybobo]

And as usual, you are never able to actually refute the flaws, errors and contradictions that exist in your dogma. You merely recoil in shocked surprise when they're pointed out.

Apparently, you do not speak English.

I do not care about the laws in your belief system, they are irrelevant to me. The only thing that matters to me are my beliefs, which you know nothing about.

Are you set in your ways or are you open minded and open to learning new things?

I would think that a theist would want to know all the facts before deciding if they believe in god or not. But that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems more like theists are usually brainwashed first into believing in god and you can't even talk to them about it without them getting angry or trying to scare you into believing what they believe by threatening us with hell.

Notice we don't say you'll burn in hell forever if you believe in god. We don't use the scare tactics. That's what theists do. They have to. How else do they get you to swallow the bs story they've sold you?

 

[Hollie]

And as usual, you are never able to actually refute the flaws, errors and contradictions that exist in your dogma. You merely recoil in shocked surprise when they're pointed out.

Apparently, you do not speak English.

I do not care about the laws in your belief system, they are irrelevant to me. The only thing that matters to me are my beliefs, which you know nothing about.

That makes two of us. You know nothing about your beliefs, either.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

Newsflash, I never made a claim, thus I have no burden of proof. You, on the other hand, have openly claimed that the God I talk to does not exist, so feel free to prove it.

 

[sealybobo]

The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

Newsflash, I never made a claim, thus I have no burden of proof. You, on the other hand, have openly claimed that the God I talk to does not exist, so feel free to prove it.

You just made the claim. You said you talk to a god.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you set in your ways or are you open minded and open to learning new things?

I would think that a theist would want to know all the facts before deciding if they believe in god or not. But that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems more like theists are usually brainwashed first into believing in god and you can't even talk to them about it without them getting angry or trying to scare you into believing what they believe by threatening us with hell.

Notice we don't say you'll burn in hell forever if you believe in god. We don't use the scare tactics. That's what theists do. They have to. How else do they get you to swallow the bs story they've sold you?

I would think a rational person wouldn't claim to know what other people think without actually asking them.

I have stated, more than once, right here in this thread, that there is no such thing as Hell, yet idiots keep throwing it in my face to prove their superiority to me. All they actually end up proving is that they cannot follow a train of thought. I suggest you stop arguing with the voices in your head, they are making you look really stupid.