Faith & the death penalty

[Quantum Windbag]

I can easily point to verses in the New Testament that support the death penalty.

They would be ?

Romans 13:3-4:

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Didn't even break a sweat.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Perhaps my problem is that I don't know how to interpret. I'm sure you are excellent at it. Nice for you. I'm stuck with accepting what it says as if the author actually meant it.

It is not a matter of interpretation, it is a matter of comprehension.

Whatever.

I know, reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Would you like me to recommend some good places to learn how to parse a sentence?

Other than 5th grade English class, since you either slept through it or just outright failed.

 

[hotpotato]

Some people can change but saying the death penalty is 'wrong' because a percentage have taken the path marked redemption is a cop out.

you've missed the mark completely on my comment......the death penalty is wrong because it eliminates an opportunity for them to repent......I'm not saying they are innocent and should go free if they convert.....if I recall correctly the woman I was referring to was executed.....

if not, here is one who was.....on death row 14 years......became a Christian....was the first woman executed in Texas since the 1800s......
Karla Faye Tucker:*Born again*on death row - CNN.com

can you not find it in your heart to rejoice with her?.......

TUCKER: Yes, it can. It's called the joy of the Lord. I don't -- when you have done something that I have done, like what I have done, and you have been forgiven for it, and you're loved, that has a way of so changing you. I mean, I have experienced real love. I know what real love is. I know what forgiveness is, even when I did something so horrible. I know that because God forgave me and I accepted what Jesus did on the cross. When I leave here, I am going to go be with him.

So I missed the mark on your comment! Not quite as bad as you thinking I believed being born again meant you were let out of jail. I think we must agree to disagree on this. For me there are some for whom the death penalty is hugely deserved no matter if they say they have found god.
What irks me though is how some christians are prepared to forgive a murderer when he claims to find god yet those same christians would love to see other law abiding citizens suffer eternal torment in a fiery pit for not finding this illusive god!
Funny bunch to say the least!

 

[PostmodernProph]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world.

??...I'm sure that you don't believe that on judgement day we're going to vote on who is in heaven with us......

Didn't say anything about voting. We are going to judge though.

does God at least get to be the tie breaker if we get a split decision?......./chuckles.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

What irks me though is how some christians are prepared to forgive a murderer when he claims to find god yet those same christians would love to see other law abiding citizens suffer eternal torment in a fiery pit for not finding this illusive god!
Funny bunch to say the least!

why do you think that's an inconsistency?......we believe (I believe by that I mean all Christians) that we are saved by accepting God's gift of salvation.....that means a person you consider not good enough may be saved by accepting, while someone you consider law abiding would not be saved because they refused it......nothing complicated there, just everyone getting what they've chosen......certainly nothing illusive about God.....he's right in front of you, where he's always been.....

 

[PratchettFan]

It is not a matter of interpretation, it is a matter of comprehension.

Whatever.

I know, reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Would you like me to recommend some good places to learn how to parse a sentence?

Other than 5th grade English class, since you either slept through it or just outright failed.

It says what it says. I am sorry it upsets you.

 

[Avatar4321]

??...I'm sure that you don't believe that on judgement day we're going to vote on who is in heaven with us......

Didn't say anything about voting. We are going to judge though.

does God at least get to be the tie breaker if we get a split decision?......./chuckles.......

No idea how it works. Just know that the Lord said the saints are going to judge

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Whatever.

I know, reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Would you like me to recommend some good places to learn how to parse a sentence?

Other than 5th grade English class, since you either slept through it or just outright failed.

It says what it says. I am sorry it upsets you.

Feel free to tell me what you think it says, and then I will point out why you are wrong using the rules of English grammar, which you are totally unfamiliar with.

 

[PratchettFan]

I know, reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Would you like me to recommend some good places to learn how to parse a sentence?

Other than 5th grade English class, since you either slept through it or just outright failed.

It says what it says. I am sorry it upsets you.

Feel free to tell me what you think it says, and then I will point out why you are wrong using the rules of English grammar, which you are totally unfamiliar with.

I don't have to tell you. I just posted it and that makes you upset. It says what it says and you clearly don't like it. If you have a problem with what it says, then bring it up with the author.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It says what it says. I am sorry it upsets you.

Feel free to tell me what you think it says, and then I will point out why you are wrong using the rules of English grammar, which you are totally unfamiliar with.

I don't have to tell you. I just posted it and that makes you upset. It says what it says and you clearly don't like it. If you have a problem with what it says, then bring it up with the author.

Funny, I don't recall being upset.

 

[PratchettFan]

Feel free to tell me what you think it says, and then I will point out why you are wrong using the rules of English grammar, which you are totally unfamiliar with.

I don't have to tell you. I just posted it and that makes you upset. It says what it says and you clearly don't like it. If you have a problem with what it says, then bring it up with the author.

Funny, I don't recall being upset.

If you have a problem with what it says, take it up with the author.

 

[PratchettFan]

I can easily point to verses in the New Testament that support the death penalty.

They would be ?

Romans 13:3-4:

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Didn't even break a sweat.

No. You clearly didn't or you would have found in Romans 12:

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

 

[ChrisL]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

That's what I always thought. Judge not lest ye be judged. I've found a lot of things in organized religion to be completely hypocritical though, so no surprises there. *shrugs*

 

[ChrisL]

I've got to say that I notice that with conservatives, a lot of times they are pro death penalty but anti abortion and with the liberals, they are pro abortion and anti death penalty.

There is really NO consistency there IMO. If you value life, you value life. I don't see how you can be honest, yet pick and choose and say that one life is worth LESS than another.

That is why I think that these people who go around claiming that they are "compassionate" are most of the times full of it.

 

[BreezeWood]

the death penalty is not a judgement - it is a response to a heinous crime using facts and evidence to determine a verdict.

abortion likewise is not a judgement but a response to the reason for its implementation ... fundamentally simply a choice.

.

 

[guno]

I realized the death penalty was wrong when I heard of the woman who was born again after being on death row for 27 years.......

Yes how convenient to be "born again

Crimes on credit!!!

 

[ChrisL]

the death penalty is not a judgement - it is a response to a heinous crime using facts and evidence to determine a verdict.

abortion likewise is not a judgement but a response to the reason for its implementation ... fundamentally simply a choice.

.

I disagree completely. It is human beings judging whether or not another human being should live or die in both situations. You can make it sound as complicated as you want, but it's really quite simple.

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't have to tell you. I just posted it and that makes you upset. It says what it says and you clearly don't like it. If you have a problem with what it says, then bring it up with the author.

Funny, I don't recall being upset.

If you have a problem with what it says, take it up with the author.

Except no one has a problem with what the author said, only your attempts to wrest them out of context.

I've provided many scriptures where Christ explicitly commands us to judge or where He clearly states that God is not the only one involved with judging. You've not even attempted to discuss them. You just say take up your verses with the author.

Why should we ignore that the saints will judge the world? Or the commands for us to judge righteously? Or for the commands to seek justice?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Some people can change but saying the death penalty is 'wrong' because a percentage have taken the path marked redemption is a cop out.

you've missed the mark completely on my comment......the death penalty is wrong because it eliminates an opportunity for them to repent......I'm not saying they are innocent and should go free if they convert.....if I recall correctly the woman I was referring to was executed.....

if not, here is one who was.....on death row 14 years......became a Christian....was the first woman executed in Texas since the 1800s......
Karla Faye Tucker:*Born again*on death row - CNN.com

can you not find it in your heart to rejoice with her?.......

TUCKER: Yes, it can. It's called the joy of the Lord. I don't -- when you have done something that I have done, like what I have done, and you have been forgiven for it, and you're loved, that has a way of so changing you. I mean, I have experienced real love. I know what real love is. I know what forgiveness is, even when I did something so horrible. I know that because God forgave me and I accepted what Jesus did on the cross. When I leave here, I am going to go be with him.

She is an excellent example, PostmodernProph. Tucker was put on death row and had plenty of time to reflect on her sins. She became a born again Christian. Therein disproving your theory that they would not have the opportunity to repent.

Tucker was forgiven her sins by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. She became a born again Christian. She was on death row for having bludgeoned someone to death with an ice pick if I remember correctly. So while her sins were forgiven she was still held acountable for her action of taking the life of another human being. God is a just God.

Now consider this example: A man is about to be put to death for a crime he did not commit. The twin brother of the man who was guilty of the murder hears about it on the news and is so overcome with guilt he calls on the LORD and is saved right then and there.

He is forgiven all of his sins. What will this newly redeemed brother do? Will he turn himself in at the nearest police station taking responsibility for his crime of murder or will he let his innocent brother who does not know Christ go to the electric chair? If he is truly a born again Christian? He will turn himself in and tell the authorities the truth of what happened. He will take responsibility for the consequences of his actions even though he is forgiven his sins by means of his redemption.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I realized the death penalty was wrong when I heard of the woman who was born again after being on death row for 27 years.......

Yes how convenient to be "born again

Crimes on credit!!!

actually, the crime occurred before the credit.....