Faith & the death penalty

[BreezeWood]

God is behind me and so is the church.

supposedly ... they are not one in the same ?


God is not behind those who wrote the scriptures ? - yes, good point.

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[PratchettFan]

If the verses lost their meaning because anyone can make them say what someone wants them to say then you lost any authority you might have to tell anyone anything because you don't understand context.

What is a disciple? A disciple today is someone who follows Jesus and Jesus told us to go into the world and teach others and make disciples so you aren't a Christian but you've been discipled in what the verse means because God gave me the authority to speak about Him and you have no authority from God because you aren't His.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

No. They say what they say. I have applied no interpretation or meaning to them at all. You are arguing with the verses, not me. Sorry if they aren't convenient.

You don't have the truth. You don't understand context and should be ashamed for being wrong. God is behind me and so is the church.

I didn't say I had the truth. I just posted the verses. You are arguing with the verses.

 

[Chuckt]

No. They say what they say. I have applied no interpretation or meaning to them at all. You are arguing with the verses, not me. Sorry if they aren't convenient.

You don't have the truth. You don't understand context and should be ashamed for being wrong. God is behind me and so is the church.

I didn't say I had the truth. I just posted the verses. You are arguing with the verses.

I don't buy that you didn't mean anything when you posted the verses. Your argument is a cop out.

 

[PratchettFan]

You don't have the truth. You don't understand context and should be ashamed for being wrong. God is behind me and so is the church.

I didn't say I had the truth. I just posted the verses. You are arguing with the verses.

I don't buy that you didn't mean anything when you posted the verses.

You can think anything you like. QW said he was not aware of any verses in the Bible which addressed this issue and I simply provided a few. Not all by any stretch. I could, for example, given the one about throwing stones - which applies directly to the the death penalty. I have not added to those verses, not amended them, made no attempt to interpret or define them. I just presented them. Your issue is with the verses.

 

[Avatar4321]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world. The Lord called judges to lead Israel for hundreds of years. We are in fact, commanded to judge righteous judgments.

We are also commanded to be humble, seek justice, and extend mercy. We cannot seek justice without judging.

 

[PratchettFan]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world. The Lord called judges to lead Israel for hundreds of years. We are in fact, commanded to judge righteous judgments.

We are also commanded to be humble, seek justice, and extend mercy. We cannot seek justice without judging.

I think I have already pointed out where it says that. If you think Jesus got it wrong, that's between you and him.

 

[BreezeWood]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world. The Lord called judges to lead Israel for hundreds of years. We are in fact, commanded to judge righteous judgments.

We are also commanded to be humble, seek justice, and extend mercy. We cannot seek justice without judging.

I think I have already pointed out where it says that. If you think Jesus got it wrong, that's between you and him.

no need for any(one's) scriptures ...

only God renders the final Judgement, life Everlasting.


- reasons for actions are not the same as judgements - judgement for a crime is not necessary.

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[PratchettFan]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world. The Lord called judges to lead Israel for hundreds of years. We are in fact, commanded to judge righteous judgments.

We are also commanded to be humble, seek justice, and extend mercy. We cannot seek justice without judging.

I think I have already pointed out where it says that. If you think Jesus got it wrong, that's between you and him.

no need for any(one's) scriptures ...

only God renders the final Judgement, life Everlasting.


- reasons for actions are not the same as judgements - judgement for a crime is not necessary.

.

That's one way around it. Whatever works for you.

 

[BreezeWood]

I think I have already pointed out where it says that. If you think Jesus got it wrong, that's between you and him.

no need for any(one's) scriptures ...

only God renders the final Judgement, life Everlasting.


- reasons for actions are not the same as judgements - judgement for a crime is not necessary.

.

That's one way around it. Whatever works for you.

American society is based on a secular governance -

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[PratchettFan]

no need for any(one's) scriptures ...

only God renders the final Judgement, life Everlasting.


- reasons for actions are not the same as judgements - judgement for a crime is not necessary.

.

That's one way around it. Whatever works for you.

American society is based on a secular governance -

.

Agreed. But that does not mean a judgment is not a judgment.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;


James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Those do not mean what you think they mean.

I think they mean what they say. What do you think they mean?

I think they mean you need to learn how to read.

 

[PostmodernProph]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world.

??...I'm sure that you don't believe that on judgement day we're going to vote on who is in heaven with us......

 

[PratchettFan]

Those do not mean what you think they mean.

I think they mean what they say. What do you think they mean?

I think they mean you need to learn how to read.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't know how to interpret. I'm sure you are excellent at it. Nice for you. I'm stuck with accepting what it says as if the author actually meant it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think they mean what they say. What do you think they mean?

I think they mean you need to learn how to read.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't know how to interpret. I'm sure you are excellent at it. Nice for you. I'm stuck with accepting what it says as if the author actually meant it.

It is not a matter of interpretation, it is a matter of comprehension.

 

[chikenwing]

I can easily point to verses in the New Testament that support the death penalty.

They would be ?

 

[DriftingSand]

God has a Kingdom. In that Kingdom He has a Judge. Scripture promises that that Judge will sentence many to death.

As for giving a bloodthirsty criminal an "opportunity to repent" the bigger question is: did the criminal give his victim an opportunity to repent before he murdered him/her?

 

[PratchettFan]

I think they mean you need to learn how to read.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't know how to interpret. I'm sure you are excellent at it. Nice for you. I'm stuck with accepting what it says as if the author actually meant it.

It is not a matter of interpretation, it is a matter of comprehension.

Whatever.

 

[Chuckt]

I can easily point to verses in the New Testament that support the death penalty.

They would be ?

What does the New Testament say about capital punishment? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[Avatar4321]

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)

"Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Proverbs 31:9)

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24)

"That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Luke 22:30)

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28)

So yes, I do think the saints are going to judge the world. The scriptures clearly point to many instances where those other than God will make make judgment. And the scriptures clearly command us to judge righteously because we will be judged according to the same standard.

 

[Avatar4321]

where does it say that only God can judge? The scriptures are clear that the Saints are going to judge the world.

??...I'm sure that you don't believe that on judgement day we're going to vote on who is in heaven with us......

Didn't say anything about voting. We are going to judge though.