Fake Senate ACA Replacement Already Blocked!

[sealybobo]

Do Republicans think they will never get old or sick?

Does AHCA increase health premiums by 800% for seniors?

I can't wait for them to get both.

 

[task0778]

lets be honest, the reason they sign up is because of the fines if they don't in as much as anything.

You can't achieve universal coverage and still have profitable insurance companies. So you need to decide what is more important to you; coverage or profits. Because you can't have both.

our insurance companies are not profitable? well they were until saddled with stupid things they had to now pay for.

when i was unemployed and didn't buy insurance (choosing to pay the fine) every time i needed something i got 50% off and paid in cash. care to tell me why i got 50% off? maybe that's insurance profits...

Insurance companies are very profitable. And the ACA was a gift to the insurance companies. In fact they wrote it. Did you know that? That's why the mandate everyone has had to buy their product. And why they were given years to jack up the price before the cost savings kicked in.

The oil companies made a great profit too when gas was $4 a gallon. Do you want to go back to that too?

Health insurance industry rakes in billions while blaming Obamacare for losses

Major insurance companies are enjoying record profits but claim they are losing money under the Affordable Care Act

No, but they are losing money in some places, which is why they'e pulling out of those places. Considering how many places around the country are down to only one insurance company or NONE, it sorta tells you how profitable the ACA is for them.

 

[The Derp]

Lol! Yep, the first thing everyone thinks of when dealing with a Federal bureaucracy is efficiency. Ocare has already cost twice the BS estimates feed to us.

So interesting you bring up efficiency...

Here is HHS' budget for Medicare. As you see, about 1% of Medicare's budget is for administration.

Here is Aetna's Budget. As you see, about 17% of Aetna's budget is for administration

So explain how Medicare is less efficient than Aetna, if Medicare is spending 1% of its entire budget on administration while Aetna spends 17%?

 

[sealybobo]

lets be honest, the reason they sign up is because of the fines if they don't in as much as anything.

You can't achieve universal coverage and still have profitable insurance companies. So you need to decide what is more important to you; coverage or profits. Because you can't have both.

our insurance companies are not profitable? well they were until saddled with stupid things they had to now pay for.

when i was unemployed and didn't buy insurance (choosing to pay the fine) every time i needed something i got 50% off and paid in cash. care to tell me why i got 50% off? maybe that's insurance profits...

Insurance companies are very profitable. And the ACA was a gift to the insurance companies. In fact they wrote it. Did you know that? That's why the mandate everyone has had to buy their product. And why they were given years to jack up the price before the cost savings kicked in.

The oil companies made a great profit too when gas was $4 a gallon. Do you want to go back to that too?

Health insurance industry rakes in billions while blaming Obamacare for losses

Major insurance companies are enjoying record profits but claim they are losing money under the Affordable Care Act

No, but they are losing money in some places, which is why they'e pulling out of those places. Considering how many places around the country are down to only one insurance company or NONE, it sorta tells you how profitable the ACA is for them.

I think the people hurt the most by the ACA are small business owners who had to buy their own insurance and they didn't qualify for any subsodies. They were paying more so the poor could get free coverage.

I have to be honest, the poor don't deserve coverage. They didn't vote for Hillary so they must not want the healthcare that Democrats got for them.

Democrats need to stop worrying about poor people who don't vote. Focus on the middle class.

 

[The Derp]

its not that i disagree with you - but when we also reference all these 3rd world countries with great healthcare, how do they do it? is "socialized medicine" just cheap insurance? there's a lot more to it than this but i 100% agree both sides need to cut the shit out and work together.

Well, I don't reference 3rd World Countries...I reference First World ones (Canada, Israel, Japan, Korea, Germany, etc.). I think there's a lot of confusion as to what "socialized medicine" and "socialized insurance" are. In Socialized Medicine, all medical workers are employed by the government. In Socialized Insurance, the government entity administers payments to private providers. The two can be mutually exclusive. Many first world, single-payer nations have variable degrees of each.

 

[The Derp]

it's a grotesque entitlement to think i have to pay for someone elses coverage.

What do you think health insurance is?

 

[iceberg]

its not that i disagree with you - but when we also reference all these 3rd world countries with great healthcare, how do they do it? is "socialized medicine" just cheap insurance? there's a lot more to it than this but i 100% agree both sides need to cut the shit out and work together.

Well, I don't reference 3rd World Countries...I reference First World ones (Canada, Israel, Japan, Korea, Germany, etc.). I think there's a lot of confusion as to what "socialized medicine" and "socialized insurance" are. In Socialized Medicine, all medical workers are employed by the government. In Socialized Insurance, the government entity administers payments to private providers. The two can be mutually exclusive. Many first world, single-payer nations have variable degrees of each.

and this is what i agree will be the hardest to overcome.

can we "reel in" insurance?
can we now tell doctors who spend $$$ to get their degrees how much they can now make?
we are so far from this type of a system getting to anything else is going to be difficult, at best and require a lot of people give up making the $$$ they have traditionally made in these fields.

 

[iceberg]

it's a grotesque entitlement to think i have to pay for someone elses coverage.

What do you think health insurance is?

grotesque entitlement to my money.

 

[sealybobo]

Republicans' Proposed Medicaid Cuts Would Hit Rural Patients Hard

I think the GOP are going to fuck us all.

 

[The Derp]

I believe you're out of your mind. Only the most ideological CEOs and business owners eschew profits to make political points. It's hard to stay in business when you do that.

Yet, that is precisely what Aetna did.

From CNN money, January 24th, 2017:
Judge: Aetna lied about quitting Obamacare
A federal judge has ruled that Aetna wasn't being truthful when the health insurer said last summer that its decision to pull out of most Obamacare exchanges was strictly a business decision triggered by mounting losses.​

 

[sealybobo]

I believe you're out of your mind. Only the most ideological CEOs and business owners eschew profits to make political points. It's hard to stay in business when you do that.

Yet, that is precisely what Aetna did.

From CNN money, January 24th, 2017:
Judge: Aetna lied about quitting Obamacare
A federal judge has ruled that Aetna wasn't being truthful when the health insurer said last summer that its decision to pull out of most Obamacare exchanges was strictly a business decision triggered by mounting losses.​

These guys worship and trust corporations. They don't realize a corporation doesn't care about anything other than making a profit. For example the corporations want to not help people with pre existing conditions because that would cost them money. They are not worrying about those people. They are worried about maximizing profits. So they take your money each month but don't want to cover you when you get sick.

This is why you don't let a corporation run healthcare or be POTUS.

 

[The Derp]

I think the people hurt the most by the ACA are small business owners who had to buy their own insurance and they didn't qualify for any subsodies. They were paying more so the poor could get free coverage.

But were they? Small businesses up to 50 employees were (and are) exempt from providing coverage to their workers, and also got generous tax credits for providing coverage to workers. So which small business owners did this hurt? The restaurant owner or the hedge fund? Not all small businesses are created equal.

I have to be honest, the poor don't deserve coverage. They didn't vote for Hillary so they must not want the healthcare that Democrats got for them.

Everyone deserves health care regardless of how ideologically confused they are. Everyone will need health care at some point in their lives and for most, they cannot afford the high costs of treating major conditions. That's why we have insurance in the first place.

Democrats need to stop worrying about poor people who don't vote. Focus on the middle class.

I think Democrats need to stop chasing corporate money; whether that's corporate money from Wall Street, Silicon Valley, or Hollywood. If Democrats abandon corporate donors, they no longer have to justify shitty corporate policies, and people will vote for them because of that.

 

[The Derp]

grotesque entitlement to my money.

LOL, OK.

 

[The Derp]

No, but they are losing money in some places, which is why they'e pulling out of those places.

Well, they say that...but they're not being entirely truthful. Because Aetna lied about their reasons for leaving the exchanges, why should we believe what other insurance companies tell us? Why wouldn't they lie like Aetna did?

Considering how many places around the country are down to only one insurance company or NONE, it sorta tells you how profitable the ACA is for them.

Well, it shouldn't be profitable for them because they are providing universal coverage. So again, this gets to the fundamental question that continues to go un-asked; Do we want to put corporate profits ahead of patient needs, or not?

 

[OKTexas]

Can't win without votes! Three GOP or more vote, "Nyet(?)" or however that is said(?)!

Enough GOP senators to block Obamacare replacement will announce opposition: NBC News, citing source

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(At GOP, the "Nyet" votes have it. . . .speaking of Lands of Many Nations!)

So how do you block a draft bill?


.

 

[The Derp]

and this is what i agree will be the hardest to overcome.
can we "reel in" insurance?
can we now tell doctors who spend $$$ to get their degrees how much they can now make?
we are so far from this type of a system getting to anything else is going to be difficult, at best and require a lot of people give up making the $$$ they have traditionally made in these fields.

Well, I don't think that doctors are told how much they can make in a single-payer system. What they're told in such a system is how much they will get reimbursed for the care they provide. In a single-payer system, that puts the onus on providers to improve outcomes because that's how they retain patients. A single payer levels the playing field for providers who aren't having insurers compete with one another for their contract, but are instead competing with other providers for patients since it's just one entity doing the reimbursement, everyone is reimbursed at the same rate, theoretically. There's always going to be a demand for medical care, and there's always going to be a demand for good doctors. The problem is the system right now doesn't allow the patients choice when it comes to the provider. The patient must first buy insurance and then they can select a provider from those in the insurance network. That's not really patient choice when it comes to health care because you are bound to see whatever doctors that are in your network. If everyone was on the same network, that would mean patients would have more choices for providers, and providers would have to improve outcomes in order to attract patients.

 

[The Derp]

So how do you block a draft bill?.

How do you go seven years of screeching vocal opposition to Obamacare, yet are only able to produce a draft bill???? What have they been doing these seven years? Why didn't anyone think to come up with a plan over the last 7 years that was fool-proof and air-tight? WTF have they been doing all this time?

 

[The Derp]

can we now tell doctors who spend $$$ to get their degrees how much they can now make?

And I also think we need to reduce costs for public colleges so that people who want to become doctors can at very little cost to them. I think that's achieved by increased funding for state colleges and universities, to reverse the sky-high tuition costs that exist for state schools. IMO, no one should have to take out a loan to go to college and/or get a degree of any kind from a public institution. I also think that there should be complete debt forgiveness for anyone who gets an MD.

 

[iceberg]

and this is what i agree will be the hardest to overcome.
can we "reel in" insurance?
can we now tell doctors who spend $$$ to get their degrees how much they can now make?
we are so far from this type of a system getting to anything else is going to be difficult, at best and require a lot of people give up making the $$$ they have traditionally made in these fields.

Well, I don't think that doctors are told how much they can make in a single-payer system. What they're told in such a system is how much they will get reimbursed for the care they provide. In a single-payer system, that puts the onus on providers to improve outcomes because that's how they retain patients. A single payer levels the playing field for providers who aren't having insurers compete with one another for their contract, but are instead competing with other providers for patients since it's just one entity doing the reimbursement, everyone is reimbursed at the same rate, theoretically. There's always going to be a demand for medical care, and there's always going to be a demand for good doctors. The problem is the system right now doesn't allow the patients choice when it comes to the provider. The patient must first buy insurance and then they can select a provider from those in the insurance network. That's not really patient choice when it comes to health care because you are bound to see whatever doctors that are in your network. If everyone was on the same network, that would mean patients would have more choices for providers, and providers would have to improve outcomes in order to attract patients.

interesting - in any event i do appreciate the civil convo even if we disagree.

 

[iceberg]

can we now tell doctors who spend $$$ to get their degrees how much they can now make?

And I also think we need to reduce costs for public colleges so that people who want to become doctors can at very little cost to them. I think that's achieved by increased funding for state colleges and universities, to reverse the sky-high tuition costs that exist for state schools. IMO, no one should have to take out a loan to go to college and/or get a degree of any kind from a public institution. I also think that there should be complete debt forgiveness for anyone who gets an MD.

well that's where we do agree. for *any* of this to work will take a culture shift. we have to revamp the medical profession and maybe help pay for the education if their first 5 years are in a gov type service. dunno. i can't picture that flying for many either but then they can pay for their own education and move on i suppose.

but to get this to happen a lot has to change in reference to how we've built this medical field/profession.