Federal Government: Are We Getting Our Money's Worth?

[Foxfyre]

The question is: are we getting our money's worth from the Federal Government? All the rest of the OP is purely for reference and food for thought.

Keeping the conversation as non partisan as possible and reasonably civil will be much appreciated. This is not intended to compare Democrats to Republicans but acknowledges all have sinned and fallen short. This is intended to be focused on satisfaction overall with what our government does and/or what we expect the government to accomplish with our tax dollars and/or what should happen if we don't get our money's worth and/or how we can get our money's worth.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION​

In 2010 and 2011 the Senate Leader and Speaker of the House each received $210,000/year in salary. Most member of Congress received $174,000 in salary.

That totals roughly $96 million/year for congressional salaries.

On top of that we pay just under $5 billion each and every year for their travel plans, security details and personal spending accounts.

These figures do not include the cost of the congressional offices infrastructure as that is not itemized in the federal budget. Or the massive amount of wealth most members of Congress can look forward to when they leave office due to deals they cut while they were in office. That comes at a price to us too.

There are also no figures itemized for the cost of retirement of our elected leaders who receive at least full salaries and health care for life at our expense if they stay in Congress for five years or more. Those who stay longer do much better. And if they die, their surviving spouses receive 3/4ths of their salary for life.

And what do their staffs and other federal employees cost us? Over a working career, the range is between $2.02 million for the cheapest federal employee (GS-1), and $11.3 million for the most expensive employee (GS-15). An employee in the middle of the federal pay scale (GS-8) will cost $4.27 million. And that doesn't count the infrastructure and other costs of doing business as government.
There are more than 2 million federal employees--the U.S. government is the nation's largest employer--and the President wants to hire tens of thousands more.

Then you add in the President and the very lucrative salaries and benefits paid to his staff and myriad appointees and all the costs associated with that.

That is why 2/3rds of every tax dollar collected these days is swallowed up in that enormous bureaucracy that doesn't seem to be able to do its job these days, partly because the President and the Congress keep moving the goal posts and partly because it has become so large and bloated few feel any sense of duty or responsibility. And based on recent news reports, many feel entitled to just enjoy our money whether or not they accomplish anything useful.

And now our elected leaders left Washington for their August recess - five weeks of vacation - leaving numerous critical pieces of legislation undone, doing nothing to address the next impending debt ceiling crisis that is currently crashing the stock market, doing nothing to address the train wreck of impending Obamacare issues that, along with the unresolved tax and budget issues, is driving the economy through the floor.

Are we getting our money's worth?

Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Overworked Congress Goes on Vacation | Las Vegas Guardian Express
Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Americans for Tax Reform : How Much Does It Cost Taxpayers<br> To Hire a New Federal Employee?

 

[Freemason9]

No. We certainly are NOT getting "our money's worth" in terms of democratic representation. And, given the vagueness of constitutional language and aristocratic control of institutions, it will likely not get better.

This is why we need an entirely new form of government. This one is a joke.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Of course we're not. This has been the case for over 100 years and gets worse each election cycle. What can be done about it? Nothing.

The problem starts when citizens elect worthless representatives that to not uphold their oath or look out for their constituency. But that is not just those reps fault. Moving into the last election cycle congress had some of the all time lowest ratings in the history of the USA. And...most of them retained their seats.

People get the government they voted for. So they deserve to be robbed by these crooks that they seat.

 

[Foxfyre]

For sure one of the problems is that too many of us LIKE our own elected leaders and blame everybody else's as the problem. Perhaps one place to start is to be a bit more realistic about that?

 

[PaulS1950]

We're getting more than our money's worth. The problem is that we are getting the negative side of government. More controls, more restrictions, more invasion, more government but what we are not getting is more freedom, our basic rights, and any relief from all the government has created.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

For sure one of the problems is that too many of us LIKE our own elected leaders and blame everybody else's as the problem. Perhaps one place to start is to be a bit more realistic about that?

I think when it comes to being realistic, voters need to be far better informed about the type of government we are suppose to have, what issues that govt. has the enumerated powers to actually tackle, and then find the condidate that will best follow that line.

Unfortunately, we've gone WAY passed the point of no return on that.

I waas watching the democrat NYC mayoral debates last night, and let mem tell you. These people will say ANYTHING to get elected. They have no concept of being truthful, clear, concise or what their role is suppose to be. They are wildly exaggerative with their promises and otherwise wreak of snake oil..(the republican debate was unwatchable...as they were all very inarticulate, crossing over each others talk time, etc...)


This is what it has become form th top on down. Sure there are some smaller areas where good reps come through and the constituency is informed. But they are so low in percentage as compared to the giant cestpool that is washington, i really dont see anything getting chnged.

It will only escalate in its degeneration.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

No.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Totally depends on who you are.

On one side of the aisle...the poor - HELL YES. Record social spending.
On the other side - the wealthy - HOLY SHIT YES!!!...Wall Street, Banks and large corporations are doing better than ever.
Everyone in the middle....... NO.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't want to be so pessimistic to believe the current dismal situation cannot be reversed other than by armed insurrection and revolution. But Thomas Jefferson, perhaps as an aside and perhaps looking prophetically into the future, suggested occasional revolution could be the only way for free people to retain their freedom.

DISLAIMER: I am NOT advocating revolution. I don't want guys in trench coats at my front door or black helicopters hovering over my house, please.​

But Jefferson said:

"Every generation needs a new revolution."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.&#8221;

&#8220;I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.&#8221;

&#8220;If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.&#8221;

&#8220;Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny&#8221;

But he also said:

&#8220;I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master.&#8221;

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government.&#8221;

So maybe that's where we need to start. It won't work by insults and food fights on message board. But we now have a generation of Americans in which too few have ever been taught what liberty and self governance is or why it is superior to anything else. If we can plant the idea in a way that it can take root, we might, just might get the constitutional amendment passed that would reign in a self-serving government and restore it to the people.

I do believe this is the last generation with any chance to do that.

 

[kaz]

The country is split between those of us who pay the massive taxes that feed the dragon and those who receive the chicken feed that's left after the politicians and bureaucrats waste most of it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Nope!

 

[Claudette]

Of course we're not. This has been the case for over 100 years and gets worse each election cycle. What can be done about it? Nothing.

The problem starts when citizens elect worthless representatives that to not uphold their oath or look out for their constituency. But that is not just those reps fault. Moving into the last election cycle congress had some of the all time lowest ratings in the history of the USA. And...most of them retained their seats.

People get the government they voted for. So they deserve to be robbed by these crooks that they seat.

Bingo. These assholes keep getting elected by we the people so we are our own worst enemies.

They are set for life. They pay into they're own SS. One that doesn't get robbed and we taxpayers support them for the rest of they're lives.

The FF never expected anyone in Govt to make a career out of Govt. I'm sure those men would turn over in the grave if they could see these idiots we elect making a living out of being in Congress.

We get what we vote for and boy are we getting robbed blind.

We sure as shit don't get our moneys worth in any way shape or form.

 

[francoHFW]

Better deal with Dems by far, and I distrust CEOs in many industries. Pubs, MBAs and Marketing "Geniuses" need a lot more ethics training.

 

[Foxfyre]

I thanked your post only because I thought it an honest summary of your point of view Franco. But again, I appeal to the group to keep partisanship out of it as much as possible. The focus on the discussion is what we want from those who ARE in power and whether we perceive that we are receiving what we want them to do.

But I take from your post that you trust government far more than the private sector. So you are happy with how the government spends your money?

 

[Foxfyre]

Waste, fraud, and mismanagement is only part of the picture, but it is a significant problem that our government seems to lack the will or the interest to solve. They seem to allow it happen rather than to risk giving ammunition to an opponent that they voted to 'cut' a popular or essential program. Or they are incompetent and don't know it is happening. Or they don't care. Ya'll pick.

The Heritage Foundation does a good job of tracking government expenditures. Here is a summary of findings of expenditures overlapping the Clinton administration and the early years of the Bush 43 administrations. (When they put out something similar updating it to present times, I'll post that too, but it is a pretty safe bet that nothing much has changed in the current administration either.)

And we can't lay this at the feet of Clinton or Bush either because both did address the problem as is indicated in the article:

The following is an edited summary of the linked article:

Top 10 Examples of Government Waste

"Lack of information is not the problem. Today, government waste investigations and recommendations can be found in hundreds of reports, such as:

&#8226; Studies published by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO),[1]
&#8226; The Congressional Budget Office's Budget Options book,
&#8226; Inspector general reports of each agency,
&#8226; Government Performance and Results Act reports of each agency,
&#8226; The White House's Program Assessment Rating Tool (PART) program reviews, and
&#8226; The Senate Governmental Affairs Committee's 2001 Government at the Brink reports."

For those seeking past recommendations that went unheeded, the 1984 Grace Commission report on government waste and the 1993-1995 publications of Vice President Al Gore's National Performance Review can still be found. President Bush also recommended consolidation of 150 ineffective or redundant government agencies that were equally ignored by Congress.

1. The Missing $25 Billion
Buried in the Department of the Treasury's 2003 Financial Report of the United States Government is a short section titled "Unreconciled Transactions Affecting the Change in Net Position," which explains that these unreconciled transactions totaled $24.5 billion in 2003.[2]
The unreconciled transactions are funds for which auditors cannot account . . .

2. Unused Flight Tickets Totaling $100 Million
A recent audit revealed that between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department purchased and then left unused approximately 270,000 commercial airline tickets at a total cost of $100 million. Even worse, the Pentagon never bothered to get a refund for these fully refundable tickets. The GAO blamed a system that relied on department personnel to notify the travel office when purchased tickets went unused.[3]

Auditors also found 27,000 transactions between 2001 and 2002 in which the Pentagon paid twice for the same ticket. The department would purchase the ticket directly and then inexplicably reimburse the employee for the cost of the ticket. (In one case, an employee who allegedly made seven false claims for airline tickets professed not to have noticed that $9,700 was deposited into his/her account). These additional transactions cost taxpayers $8 million.

This $108 million could have purchased seven Blackhawk helicopters, 17 M1 Abrams tanks, or a large supply of additional body armor for U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

3. Embezzled Funds at the Department of Agriculture
A recent audit revealed that employees of the Department of Agriculture (USDA) diverted millions of dollars to personal purchases through their government-issued credit cards. Sampling 300 employees' purchases over six months, investigators estimated that 15 percent abused their government credit cards at a cost of $5.8 million. Taxpayer-funded purchases included Ozzy Osbourne concert tickets, tattoos, lingerie, bartender school tuition, car payments, and cash advances.

The USDA has pledged a thorough investigation, but it will have a huge task: 55,000 USDA credit cards are in circulation, including 1,549 that are still held by people who no longer work at the USDA.[4]

4. Credit Card Abuse at the Department of Defense
The Defense Department has uncovered its own credit card scandal. Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 for admission to entertainment events, $48,250 for gambling, $69,300 for cruises, and $73,950 for exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[5]

5. Medicare Overspending
Medicare wastes more money than any other federal program, yet its strong public support leaves lawmakers hesitant to address program efficiencies, which cost taxpayers and Medicare recipients billions of dollars annually.

For example, Medicare pays as much as eight times what other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.[6]

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently compared the prices paid by Medicare and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care program for 16 types of medical equipment and supplies, which account for one-quarter of Medicare's equipment and supplies purchases. The evidence showed that Medicare paid an average of more than double what the VA paid for the same items. The largest difference was for saline solution, with Medicare paying $8.26 per liter compared to the $1.02 paid by the VA.[7] (See Table 1.). . . .

6. Funding Fictitious Colleges and Students
In 2002, the Department of Education received an application to certify the student loan participation of the Y'Hica Institute in London, England. After approving the certification, the department received and approved student loan applications from three Y'Hica students and disbursed $55,000.

The education Department administrators overlooked one problem: Neither the Y'Hica Institute nor the three students who received the $55,000 existed. The fictitious college and students were created (on paper) by congressional investigators to test the Department of Education's verification procedures. All of the documents were faked, right down to naming one of the fictional loan student applicants "Susan M. Collins," after the Senator requesting the investigation.[12]. . . .13] Tracking students across federal programs, verifying loan application data with IRS income data, and implementing controls to prevent the disbursement of loans to fraudulent applicants could save taxpayers billions of dollars.

7. Manipulating Data to Encourage Spending
The Army Corps of Engineers spends $5 billion annually constructing dams and other water projects. Yet, in a massive conflict of interest, it is also charged with evaluating the science and economics of each proposed water project. The Corps' "strategic vision" calls on managers to increase their budgets as rapidly as possible, which requires approving as many proposed projects as possible.[14] Consequently, the Corps has repeatedly been accused of deliberately manipulating its economic studies to justify unworthy projects. . .

8. State Abuse of Medicaid Funding Formulas
Significant waste, fraud, and abuse pervade Medicaid, which provides health services to 44 million low-income Americans. While states run their own Medicaid programs, the federal government reimburses an average of 57 percent of each state's costs.

This system gives states an incentive to overreport their Medicaid expenditures in order to receive larger federal reimbursements. Not surprisingly, the GAO has identified state schemes that shift money between state accounts to create an illusion of higher Medicaid expenditures. Similarly, some states have spent their federal Medicaid dollars on non-Medicaid purposes. Tight state budgets like those experienced by most states today have increased the pressure to use such deceptive tactics.

9. Earned Income Tax Credit Overpayments
The earned income tax credit (EITC) provides $31 billion in refundable tax credits to 19 million low-income families. The IRS estimates that $8.5 billion to $9.9 billion of this amount-nearly one-third-is wasted in overpayments.

10. Redundancy Piled on Redundancy
Government's layering of new programs on top of old ones inherently creates duplication. Having several agencies perform similar duties is wasteful and confuses program beneficiaries who must navigate each program's distinct rules and requirements.
Some examples:
&#8226; 342 economic development programs;
&#8226; 130 programs serving the disabled;
&#8226; 130 programs serving at-risk youth;
&#8226; 90 early childhood development programs;
&#8226; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities;
&#8226; 72 federal programs dedicated to assuring safe water;
&#8226; 50 homeless assistance programs;
&#8226; 45 federal agencies conducting federal criminal investigations;
&#8226; 40 separate employment and training programs;
&#8226; 28 rural development programs;
&#8226; 27 teen pregnancy programs;
&#8226; 26 small, extraneous K-12 school grant programs;
&#8226; 23 agencies providing aid to the former Soviet republics;
&#8226; 19 programs fighting substance abuse;
&#8226; 17 rural water and waste-water programs in eight agencies;
&#8226; 17 trade agencies monitoring 400 international trade agreements;
&#8226; 12 food safety agencies;
&#8226; 11 principal statistics agencies; and
&#8226; Four overlapping land management agencies.[20]
Top 10 Examples of Government Waste

 

[kaz]

Better deal with Dems by far, and I distrust CEOs in many industries. Pubs, MBAs and Marketing "Geniuses" need a lot more ethics training.

CEOs get ethics training. And most of them are ethical. I spent my career in management, there's no way any CEO of a large company hasn't gone through lots of that type of training.

Politicians don't get ethics training, and most of them are not.

You're looking the wrong direction on the place to start.

 

[Foxfyre]

From the oldest manuscripts in human history to present times, we see it noted those who benefit themselves unethically at the expense of others, people who lie, steal, cheat, manipulate; people who take unlawful or unethical advantage of privilege, people who appear sociopathic in their disregard and disrespect for others and who are ruthless and merciless in their drive to achieve some goal.

That we find such people in politics, in business, in religious and civic organizations, or even among our friends, neighbors, associates, families should not shock or surprise us. In my opinion, such people are in a small minority in most societies. But they exist everywhere.

To promote a system that attracts such people and by which such people thrive, however, is really stupid on our part. But we do it with our federal government these days. Even those who go to Washington with the best of intentions of making a difference are too easily corrupted within a relatively short time.

You don't correct a bad system by changing the people. But we can demand a system that will attract the best people instead of those who do not serve but rather use their position to increase their own power, authority, prestige, and personal fortunes.

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm still waiting for Obamabeer.........

 

[NightFox]

The question is: are we getting our money's worth from the Federal Government?

As usual Foxfyre, you raise an interesting question

In order to determine if we are getting our "money's worth" from the Federal Government one must turn back to our basic lessons in praexology, specifically how humans derive their sense of value, whether it be value in a commercial transaction or value in choice of action. Not to get into too much detail but essentially people make value judgements based unique internal "weighting" of the attributes offered by the value proposition. For example some people put a higher value on "style" than "utility" others might value "status symbol" over "durability", this internal calculation is then compared against PRICE, which is essentially the value of the labor involved paying the PRICE. We all make these sort of value judgements thousands of times a day without realizing we're doing it.

The problem with calculating whether or not what government offers is "good value" proposition is that connection between our calculation of the value offered and the PRICE has been broken, since more often then not government offers up XYZ and doesn't bother to put a VISIBLE price tag on it that we as individuals will be forced to pay. So it becomes a "something for nothing" proposition, politicians have become highly adept at hiding the true cost of propositions using numerous mechanisms (hidden taxes, inflation, etc...,).

This is why we see so many statists ready to swallow each and every offer of government funded "goodies" ostensibly to "help" somebody besides themselves, They can't see (and usually aren't really interested in) how much said proposition is actually going to cost THEM, all they see is a proposition to massage their own sense of egalitarianism on somebody Else's dime. If the true cost to THEMSELVES was revealed it would be a completely different value proposition and would likely result in "No, giving so and so said goodies isn't worth the price I'm being asked to pay for it". For example, if everyone was told that ACA was going to end up costing each of them thousands of dollars more each year in hidden taxes and debasement of their savings and purchasing power it's a pretty safe bet that very few of them would have supported it, but since the personal costs have been cleverly hidden by politicians they think "well yes let's help out those uninsured because somebody besides me is going to have to pay for it", they get to feel good about themselves without any cost.

All in all it's essentially an illusionary climb to the top of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs without having to do anything for it.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Better deal with Dems by far, and I distrust CEOs in many industries. Pubs, MBAs and Marketing "Geniuses" need a lot more ethics training.

God how people are so stupid and blind to their own failures.
Did you know that the Obama administration had MORE Ex-Wall Street execs in their administration than Bush did?
What about Larry Summers franco? Yeah, I would wager my house you have no idea who the man even is let alone admit he is one the most corrupt officials in Washington -- and he served Obama as Chief adviser and chairman of his economic staff.
Remove the blinders off your left eye.