Feds and Militias stand off over cattle seizures.

[Geaux4it]

Consider this a pilot test for using militarized action against citizens who opposed government overreach.

Yep. It's time to restock ammo for your cache of weapons; don't forget to buy enough tin foil for the battle helmets y'all will need.

I'm so glad that communist pigs like [MENTION=20297]Wry Catcher[/MENTION] suffered the devastation of watching their beloved government thugs flee from Nevada in terror this afternoon.

Patriots won.

Commies lost.

indeed

Darn radical loons got served

-Geaux

 

[WinterBorn]

Consider this a pilot test for using militarized action against citizens who opposed government overreach.

Yep. It's time to restock ammo for your cache of weapons; don't forget to buy enough tin foil for the battle helmets y'all will need.

I'm so glad that communist pigs like [MENTION=20297]Wry Catcher[/MENTION] suffered the devastation of watching their beloved government thugs flee from Nevada in terror this afternoon.

Patriots won.

Commies lost.

They didn't flee. This mess has been going on for over 20 years. The feds walked away to avoid an armed confrontation. If they wait two week they can roll back in and get the rest of the cattle off of the public lands.

 

[Katzndogz]

This is public land, not private, and that was years after this idiot started refusing to pay taxes.

It was private first, and then seized in use by the government.

.

When was it seized by the gov't? The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

 

[CaféAuLait]

This is public land, not private, and that was years after this idiot started refusing to pay taxes.

It was private first, and then seized in use by the government.

.

And this area; when was that private land?
No matter how much you try to fudge the truth - this is just a man who refuses to pay for what he uses.It's about the same as walking into a shop and refusing to pay at the checkout because you don't agree with capitalism.
He's just an idiot, backed up by stupid people with guns.
I can only hope, if there is a shootout, the authorities suffer no casualties - I have no care how many dead criminal idiots litter the ground.

( emphasis added)

Hummmm sounds so familiar...

Federal workers owe billions in back taxes

Two percent of the president's staff, 3% of the Senate staff and 4.2% of the House staff are among the 279,000 U.S. government employees who owe the IRS a cumulative $3.4 billion.

Federal workers owe billions in back taxes- MSN Money

Grab the sniper rifles and fire them all. Escort them out of our public offices now, they are not paying for what they use. The rate of those owing the government has risen since Obama took office in 2009.

Overall, the total amount owed is up slightly from September 2009, when more than 282,000 federal workers owed $3.3 billion in taxes.

Federal workers owe billions in back taxes- MSN Money

 

[WinterBorn]

It was private first, and then seized in use by the government.

.

When was it seized by the gov't? The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

I have gotten it all along. Bundy thinks that the land is his to graze whether he pays the fees or not. He is wrong.

The feds did not give up. They left to avoid a bloody confrontation that so many idiots seem to have wanted.

They removed half of his cattle. They can come back and remove the rest at any time. The "implied easement" is nonsense. Unless the state of Nevada gives Bundy expressed permission, his cattle are still trespassing and can be removed by the gov't at any time.

 

[KNB]

No one is taking anyone's guns away, unless Federal agents pick them up off of the corpses of the so-called "militia" of brainless yokels fighting to defend a rich man's greed. And if the stand-off has been thwarted then all of the posturing is irrelevant and this discussion is pointless.

thats not my point knb..... what i got out of what you said earlier about the cruise missile thing is...IF... there was a takeover here....because the military has bigger guns you should not fight back just go with the flow and let them take over and take whatever rights away they want....never resist because, well you may die.....thats a pretty submissive attitude if thats what you meant....i dont give a shit if all i had was fucking pea shooter....ill go down shooting that thing all the way until i hit the dirt....hopefully i will hit one of those fuckers in the eye on the way down....

Given that the Federal government hasn't taken anything from Bundy besides the cattle that were on public land, your argument is pointless.

As for the "I'm gonna go down shootin'" remark, please. The clueless gun-toting jackasses out there trying to fight the big government for a rich man's greed are the same pathetic little bitches who cheered on the big government for seven years when Bush was torturing POWs to death in Iraq.

 

[WinterBorn]

It was private first, and then seized in use by the government.

.

And this area; when was that private land?
No matter how much you try to fudge the truth - this is just a man who refuses to pay for what he uses.It's about the same as walking into a shop and refusing to pay at the checkout because you don't agree with capitalism.
He's just an idiot, backed up by stupid people with guns.
I can only hope, if there is a shootout, the authorities suffer no casualties - I have no care how many dead criminal idiots litter the ground.

( emphasis added)

Hummmm sounds so familiar...

Federal workers owe billions in back taxes

Two percent of the president's staff, 3% of the Senate staff and 4.2% of the House staff are among the 279,000 U.S. government employees who owe the IRS a cumulative $3.4 billion.

Federal workers owe billions in back taxes- MSN Money

Grab the sniper rifles and fire them all. Escort them out of our public offices now, they are not paying for what they use. The rate of those owing the government has risen since Obama took office in 2009.

Overall, the total amount owed is up slightly from September 2009, when more than 282,000 federal workers owed $3.3 billion in taxes.

Federal workers owe billions in back taxes- MSN Money

I agree that all of those who owe back taxes should be made to pay them.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that the federal agents that were in Nevada owed back taxes.

 

[Katzndogz]

Pretty much the same thing is going on in Louisiana where the government is seizing land because of a frog that has been extinct in Louisiana for 150 years and now only exists in Mississippi.

 

[eagle1462010]

Before Nevada Cattle Rancher Standoff, BLM Killed Off Hundreds of Endangered Tortoises

The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV Infowars.com Twitter Alex Jones' Facebook Infowars store

Endangered tortoise used as justification to assault Nevada rancher’s property rights

Adan Salazar
Infowars.com
April 9, 2014

Months before the heated contention between the Bureau of Land Management and Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy, purportedly over protecting an endangered species of desert tortoise, the BLM was euthanizing the tortoises in droves.

700 - 840 sick tortoises may be euthanized "because that’s the sensible thing to do."

700 – 840 endangered tortoises face BLM euthanization “because that’s the sensible thing to do.”
On Saturday, the BLM, with the help of helicopters, low-flying aircraft and hired cowboys, began rounding up Bundy’s cattle, and forbade him from interfering with the operation, as Bundy announced he was prepared to weather a full-on assault.

“My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley ever since 1877. All these rights I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and water. I have been here longer. My rights are before the BLM even existed,” Bundy said.

The BLM says they’re moving in, not to encroach on the man’s property rights, but because Bundy didn’t pay “grazing fees,” which the Bureau has imposed on land developers “who disturb tortoise habitat on public land,” according to the Associated Press.

Throughout the housing boom in the 2000s, the Bureau was earning enough to fund the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center (DTCC) in southern Las Vegas, a habitat “created in 1991 to house wild desert tortoises removed from the path of development and to use those tortoises to aid recovery of the species.” Its operating budget was about $1 million per year.

But the recession that followed dwindled the number of developers, and in turn funds for the DTCC.

So, facing the prospect of shutting their doors, the DTCC began releasing healthier turtles into the wild, and euthanizing some of the sick ones.

From the AP, August 25, 2013:

Back at the conservation center, a large refrigerator labeled “carcass freezer” hummed in the desert sun as scientists examined the facility’s 1,400 inhabitants to find those hearty enough to release into the wild. Officials expect to euthanize more than half the animals in the coming months in preparation for closure at the end of 2014.

“It’s the lesser of two evils, but it’s still evil,” Roy Averill-Murray, tortoise recovery coordinator with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service desert, told the AP.

Averill-Murray estimated 50 to 60 percent of the facility’s 1,400 tortoises were stricken with disease and could not be housed near healthy tortoises. Others were “too feeble to survive,” according to the AP, and could not be adopted out.

“The ones that don’t get better and that are sick and suffering will probably be euthanized because that’s the sensible thing to do,” Allyson Walsh, associate director for the San Diego Zoo’s Institute for Conservation Research, said.

News that the tortoises were going to be set free or killed spurred people around the world to contact the refuge in attempts to adopt death row tortoises, and donations began flowing in hopes to keep the DTCC afloat, but the BLM estimated it wouldn’t be enough to sustain it overall.

“Although it’s wonderful that people want to give money, it won’t change the outcome for the Desert Conservation Center,” BLM Communications Chief Erica Haspiel-Szlosek stated. “There just isn’t money to keep it going, nor is it really the best use of conservation funds.”

The tortoises’ average 100-year life span also doesn’t exactly make them the most ideal pets.

Despite the imminent closing of the DTCC’s doors due to lack of funding, the BLM has gone on to round up about 234 of rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle at gunpoint claiming they’re helping protect the tortoise and also claiming he owes them over $1 million in grazing fees.

At the same time, seizing and impounding all 908 of Bundy’s cattle would cost the government an estimated $3 million, a figure that would keep the DTCC thriving for another three years.

Interestingly, the BLM is also facing a lawsuit from various environmental groups suing on the grounds that the bureau “has failed to track the effects of a wide range of human activities in the California desert on the tortoise..”

All of this illustrates how the BLM’s dispute with Mr. Bundy has nothing to do with saving or protecting tortoises (most of which were given to the facility by people who owned them as pets, and which the BLM is either killing or releasing into the wild – animals raised in captivity don’t usually fare well in the wild) as they claim, and everything to do with making an example out of Mr. Bundy for having the gall to stand up for his property, bullying him into submission by brute force.

Damn folks , ever heard of Google??

yea i have heard of it but the person making the statement is the one who is supposed to back up what he says....thats how these forums are supposed to work.....but thanks for doing Eagles job for him....

http://www.usmessageboard.com/8922741-post41.html

Post 41 listed the article about killing the turtles. I had already given an article about it.

 

[Katzndogz]

When was it seized by the gov't? The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

I have gotten it all along. Bundy thinks that the land is his to graze whether he pays the fees or not. He is wrong.

The feds did not give up. They left to avoid a bloody confrontation that so many idiots seem to have wanted.

They removed half of his cattle. They can come back and remove the rest at any time. The "implied easement" is nonsense. Unless the state of Nevada gives Bundy expressed permission, his cattle are still trespassing and can be removed by the gov't at any time.

Then everyone will be happy to come back and it will be bloody. Half the cattle were removed. Armed Americans liberated all but 160 head and returned them to their home. Take the over populated tortoise off the endangered species list. This goes away except for Harry Reid and his business deal. This is not federal land.

 

[Grandma]

It was private first, and then seized in use by the government.

.

When was it seized by the gov't? The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

By that logic, any squatter can live free on gubmit lands - or any group of squatters large enough to create their own city. Also your logic suggests that oil barons wishing to frack on public lands should be able to do so for free.

Not very logical, are you?

 

[jon_berzerk]

It was private first, and then seized in use by the government.

.

When was it seized by the gov't? The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years.

there was also as many if not more sheep

btw bundy is the last one

 

[Katzndogz]

Since Bundy has always paid the state grazing fee yes he has express permission to graze his cows on that land and they are not trespassing.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Since Bundy has always paid the state grazing fee yes he has express permission to graze his cows on that land and they are not trespassing.

blm is the trespassers

 

[Katzndogz]

When was it seized by the gov't? The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

By that logic, any squatter can live free on gubmit lands - or any group of squatters large enough to create their own city. Also your logic suggests that oil barons wishing to frack on public lands should be able to do so for free.

Not very logical, are you?

You are not accepting that Bundy has always paid the state grazing fee. That's the part you are missing.

 

[WinterBorn]

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

I have gotten it all along. Bundy thinks that the land is his to graze whether he pays the fees or not. He is wrong.

The feds did not give up. They left to avoid a bloody confrontation that so many idiots seem to have wanted.

They removed half of his cattle. They can come back and remove the rest at any time. The "implied easement" is nonsense. Unless the state of Nevada gives Bundy expressed permission, his cattle are still trespassing and can be removed by the gov't at any time.

Then everyone will be happy to come back and it will be bloody. Half the cattle were removed. Armed Americans liberated all but 160 head and returned them to their home. Take the over populated tortoise off the endangered species list. This goes away except for Harry Reid and his business deal. This is not federal land.

Their home? The Bundy ranch? Because that is where they need to be.

I don't care if your family has been grazing cattle there since the Bronze age, if you don't own the land you have to make arrangements to run a commercial cattle operation there.

The BLM leases land to fracking & drilling operations. They pay the fees. The cattlemen need to do the same.

There is no free lunch.

Yes, the militia can come back. But by the time they do, the feds will have gotten more cattle removed.

The feds are getting paid for being there. The militia have to take time off their jobs to go out and defend this rich cattleman. And he has 150,000 acres of his own that he can graze cattle on.

 

[WinterBorn]

I will try to explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

The land in question is open range state land. Bundy had an implied easement to use the land based on 140 years of continuous use. That easement was perfected by the payment of grazing fees to the state.

In 1993 the federal government put the desert tortoise on the endangered species list and charged grazing fees based on the impact cows had on the environment. There was no impact. Cows and tortoise has coexisted for 100 years. In 1998 the federal government raised the fees and started removing or killing the tortoise due to overpopulation. The fees are outright theft.

By various violations of regulations and imposition of increasing fees all the other ranchers were driven off. The Bundy parcel was left as the only impediment to a land deal Harry Reid was negotiating with the Chinese to build a solar panel plant. Bundy had to go.

Up until the point where Reid wanted to make his own cut, the Chinese had been negotiating with the state to build that factory near Laughlin where the land is completely empty. It would have brought needed jobs to Laughlin, Needles and Bullhead City instead of helping Reid ' s friends in Las Vegas.

The federal government never owned the land. The grazing fees had nothing to do with the land. It was the impact grazing had on the desert tortoise which came under federal jurisdiction when they were put on the endangered species list. Except they aren't endangered and are in reality over populated.

Get it now?

By that logic, any squatter can live free on gubmit lands - or any group of squatters large enough to create their own city. Also your logic suggests that oil barons wishing to frack on public lands should be able to do so for free.

Not very logical, are you?

You are not accepting that Bundy has always paid the state grazing fee. That's the part you are missing.

Since Bundy himself has stated that he owes $300,000 in back grazing fees, I don't take your word for it that he has paid the fees. He said he paid SOME money to the state. But he also admits he owes.

 

[Katzndogz]

You are still missing the part where Bundy pays the state grazing fee.

I knew I couldn't understand it for you.

 

[Grandma]

Since Bundy has always paid the state grazing fee yes he has express permission to graze his cows on that land and they are not trespassing.

You clearly don't understand what "state" and "federal" mean.

My house is my own. It's private. If I lease it or the yard to someone, they pay me.

The local park is owned by the city. Any fees I might incur by using the park I must pay to the city.

State parks and grounds are owned by the state. The state collects fees for usage of state grounds.

Federal lands are owned by the US government. Only the US government can collect fees for use of that land.

If the state of Nevada is collecting money for a citizen to use federal lands, they are committing two crimes: fraud and embezzelment.

Ooooooh!!! a scandal!!!

 

[WinterBorn]

Since Bundy has always paid the state grazing fee yes he has express permission to graze his cows on that land and they are not trespassing.

blm is the trespassers

Since they manage the public lands, your claim is nonsense.

I see that so many WANT this to be a state issue, but the feds are involved.

Get laws changed or legislation done to change that and I am behind you.

But as it stands right now, the BLM is responsible for managing the public lands.

And since Bundy does not own the land, and has not paid at least $300k in fees, his cattle are trespassing.