Firefighters Watch As House Burns Down

[thereisnospoon]

When I was in a car accident two years ago the Volunteer Ambulance Corp showed up. Later they sent me a bill for $600. Just what were they volunteering?

GAs ,uniforms, supplies, wear and tear on the vehicle, insurance costs, state fees, licensure and training for the volunteers...Need I go on..
"Volunteer" does not mean "free"...
It means the people doing the work are not salaried.

 

[Charles_Main]

The 'victim' was interviewed by Olbermann this evening. Has Fox 'news' reported on the incident?

Have echo chamber members looked into the facts of the matter?

Of course not. Its a none story. The guy was an idiot and put his families home, and neighborhood at risk to save 75 Bucks.

They do not even have to offer the service to that area. They could just let that area organize a fire dept of their own. Instead they offer it, and come up with a unique way to pay for it, since they can not tax that area.

And this dick head wanted service for free.

 

[saveliberty]

The public policy should require fire services for all citizens in any event, but could stipulate if anyone opted not pay the minimal fee for public fire service, then they would be subject to x amount of charges ($ thousands) in the event public fire services are needed by them.

The fire services will not be there if people choose to only pay if they have a problem. The fire equipment must be purchased well in advance of your emergency. Pay a million dollars, you still will have to wait six months for the factory to make your fire truck.

 

[Charles_Main]

The public policy should require fire services for all citizens in any event, but could stipulate if anyone opted not pay the minimal fee for public fire service, then they would be subject to x amount of charges ($ thousands) in the event public fire services are needed by them.

The fire services will not be there if people choose to only pay if they have a problem. The fire equipment must be purchased well in advance of your emergency. Pay a million dollars, you still will have to wait six months for the factory to make your fire truck.

What public policy. This guy lived out side the Entity that Runs the Fire Dept that was there.

His township/county are the ones who would need to provide services, they don't so this arrangement was made.

It is rather Naive Valerie to say every township, county and city should have to provide Fire Coverage through tax dollars. It is unrealistic to think they call can. a large % of Americans are covered only by Volunteer Fire Depts. The money simply is not there to Force Tax subsidized Fire Coverage everywhere.

 

[JBeukema]

Who was in charge twenty years in the city/county ago when this policy went into place? Seems to me a county wide tax would have been a better way to go.

You, sir, are a communist!

 

[JBeukema]

Great thread. A perfect example of conservative thought.

Consider, one doesn't pay for healthcare, yet they are ill and go to the emergency room and are turned away. Doctors watch, and do nothing; the ill actor - too cheap to pay for healthcare - coughs and spreads a highly infectious agent around the hospital, on the bus home and at the drug store where s/he buys an ineffective but expensive product to disguise the symptoms.

You can prevent the spread of a fire.

That's what it means to say a fire is 'contained'.

My understanding is they did just that.

 

[Charles_Main]

Who was in charge twenty years in the city/county ago when this policy went into place? Seems to me a county wide tax would have been a better way to go.

The People of the country would have to vote to approve such a tax. Or are you advocating that the state tell the country to tax the people with out representation? Who ever was in charge of the County/Township cant just set taxes. They have to pass them.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well OF COURSE it was asinine to withhold the $75, del. It was MORE asinine to allow this as an option. BTW, there's a tort recovery theory in common law called "duty to rescue". You have a boat, it leaks, you are about to drown. I motor over, others are discouraged from saving you (or you are discouraged from saving yourself) and then I change my mind and leave you to drown. I am guilty of wrongful death on those facts. I would have had no liability for your death if I had done nothing, but when I undertake a rescue and don't complete it, I am liable.

Look for the county and city governments to urp up 100% of the cost of the house and furnishings because they withheld a fire rescue that prolly would have cost almost nothing, seeing as the fire truck and firefighters were on the scene and remained, and eventually did put out the fire.

This is Three Stooges Government.

Depends on each state's laws.
In fact those types of laws are being struck down as more people become aware that through no fault of their own they could become criminally or civily liable for simply beoing in the vicinity of an occurance such as you described above.
For example. Underaged drinking. Here in my state, the proprietor and his employees were 100% culpable for dispensing alcohol to a minor even if that person showed ID and that ID was a fraud. The law sued to state the employee and owner were still subjectot criminal penalties even thought they followed procedure. That law have been since stuck down. Now the law looks to the perosn presenting the fake ID.
NJ's "Make my day Law".. Before the NJ Legislature passed this law a person could face criminal penalties for defending their home or person. No longer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

 

[JBeukema]

i think it's a stupid policy

Why's that?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Fringe today is best described by the rug being rolled into a tube. The far left and the far right meet at the fringe, and the loudest voices today are from the finge which before the move was on the far right edge.
So Del, respond to the analogy of healthcare. If he had chosen not to pay for a required public option and went to the local hospital for treatment of a serious infectious disease, should he be treated or sent away. Not a perfect example, but one which deserves consideration, imo.

he should be quarantined and billed for the cost.

Then why not put the fire out and sue to recover those costs from homeowners who do not pay the fee in advance?

Yes we should all do business this way. Then even more of us can clog the courts with even more frivolous suits and actions.
The idea is to stay out of court. Take your medicine and stop this lawsuit nonsense.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If the fire department were paid with taxes it would cost $750 instead of $75

Why?

You have to ask?

 

[saveliberty]

Well OF COURSE it was asinine to withhold the $75, del. It was MORE asinine to allow this as an option. BTW, there's a tort recovery theory in common law called "duty to rescue". You have a boat, it leaks, you are about to drown. I motor over, others are discouraged from saving you (or you are discouraged from saving yourself) and then I change my mind and leave you to drown. I am guilty of wrongful death on those facts. I would have had no liability for your death if I had done nothing, but when I undertake a rescue and don't complete it, I am liable.

Look for the county and city governments to urp up 100% of the cost of the house and furnishings because they withheld a fire rescue that prolly would have cost almost nothing, seeing as the fire truck and firefighters were on the scene and remained, and eventually did put out the fire.

This is Three Stooges Government.

The fire department didn't attempt a rescue, they established a perimeter to protect other property. Please show me a law that requires fire fighters to enter a burning building to save someone.

 

[thereisnospoon]

he should be quarantined and billed for the cost.

Then why not put the fire out and sue to recover those costs from homeowners who do not pay the fee in advance?

Sue to recover from those who freely chose not to pay? What the fuck did they have to do with this?

Oh don't you know, on planet plaintiff's attorney, EVERYONE is a potential defendant.
I think the person you responded to is an attorney.
I wonder if he/she knows how close to the top of my shit list he/she is.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So, let me get this straight: Folks are saying that it's OK to pay for fire protection only when your house is on fire, like this moron in the article.

And, how do the fire trucks get paid for? How do the firefighters eat and feed their families?

What sort of stupidity flows through this thread?

No Si. Doing so does not fund the carrying costs of having a fire department to begin with...the salaries of firemen, the maintenance of fire houses, etc. It's an every day expense and should be funded by all who benefit -- through taxation.

BTW, if in year 1 300 homeowners paid the fee but in year 3 only 100 did, does the fee go up by 300% or not? I suspect there is no rational relationship between the amount of the fee and the cost of maintaining a fire service....even more evidence this fee was asinine, easily misunderstood and could not be the pre-requisite in an emergency.

I still feel sorriest for the firefighters.

You certainly have a lot to say about a place to which you've never been.
You make conclusions. Didn't they tell you in law school it matters not what you believe. It matters only what you can prove?

 

[JBeukema]

At the most fundamental level, he opted out of the social contract which accepted a cost-sharing approach to maintaining a ready fire service.

So far as he's involved, since he opted not to take part, is it not the same as if his neighbors had agreed with his mindset and not established such services in the first place?

You can argue whether it is a greater moral good to aid him anyway, but ultimately it was his decision to not participate, same as if he'd lived in a shack in the mountains.

 

[JBeukema]

If the fire department were paid with taxes it would cost $750 instead of $75

I highly doubt the yearly feed cover in full the cost of having the service ready.

 

[JBeukema]

The very concept of pay as you go fire protection is laughable

You'd prefer that the Mayor instead says he's not offering any service AT ALL to the outlying areas with no fire department coverage?

If they have enough folk, they should pool together funds for a truck and small station and call on the city only when needed.

If they don't have enough folk for that, then this is probably the most reasonable option. The only other possibility would be to do the same thing, but make it mandatory (a tax) and have some politician somewhere be in charge of seeing to it that the money reaches the fire department instead of paying for new $3000 toilets from a 'no-bid' contractor.

 

[JBeukema]

So...the firefighters charge the homeowner $500 for putting out a fire. The $75 is to cover the deadbeats that don't end up paying.

If the guy had offered $500 cash, they should have performed the service.

But it is up to the discretion of the person in charge as to wether the fire is put out or not.



Pretty shameful, IMO.

Where did the figure of $500 come from?

Because it seems to me that it would cost considerably more than $500 to put out the average house fire.

You don't only have the trucks when you need them. There's maintenance to consider. And fuel. And training time and materials.

@ $75/year, they're basically paying for the diesel to get the truck there andf piggybacking on the training and everything paid by the citydwellers.

 

[JBeukema]

So...the firefighters charge the homeowner $500 for putting out a fire. The $75 is to cover the deadbeats that don't end up paying.

If the guy had offered $500 cash, they should have performed the service.

But it is up to the discretion of the person in charge as to wether the fire is put out or not.



Pretty shameful, IMO.

Where did the figure of $500 come from?

Because it seems to me that it would cost considerably more than $500 to put out the average house fire.

http://troy.troytn.com/Obion County...tation Presented to the County Commission.pdf

page 4

According to survey information, over 75% of all municipal fire department’s structure calls
are rural. All fire departments in Obion County charge a $500.00 fee per call in rural areas,
but collections are, less than 50% and the fire departments have no way of legally
collecting the charge.

-page 4



So they charge nothing and ask for $500 just like my favorite freeware asks for fifteen bucks.

 

[JBeukema]

Response Type
All municipal fire departments charge $500.00 to the property owners or their insurance
company when dispatched to a fire. Most departments collect less than 50% of these
charges.
Subscription response Annual Fee Amt Respond w/o Contract
Union City F.D. $ 75.00 No
Kenton F.D. $ 50.00 Maybe
South Fulton F.D. $ 75.00 No
Non-Subscription Response (will respond to rural calls without ability to pay)
Hornbeak F.D.
Obion F.D.
Rives F.D.
Samburg F.D.
Troy F.D.



page 9 (ibid)