Firefighters Watch As House Burns Down

[saveliberty]

Well, at least there wasn't a human being inside that may have needed assistance in getting out.

At that point, could there be murder charges pending against the unresponsive firefighters if they still refused to assist?

Wait until you call 911 and the operator does not ask you about anything about the emergency except for your proof of insurance number.

Kind of like some customer service people,
"May I be haveeng you account number? Needing your account number first.."

Fire fighters are not required to enter a burning building to help anyone.

 

[Madeline]

WTH are you smoking?

Anyone who thinks having a middleman does not increase cost is not thinking.

You are missing my point. There is no way to eliminate the middleman. The city (or county) is a necessary party to the festivities, so paying via taxation is the most reasonable (I would argue the only reasonable) funding method.

Your point is irrelevant, so of course I'm missing it.

The county residents do not live in the city. Again, duh.

Very valid point. Country people are a whole lot more self-reliant. No one delivers their water, carries away their sewage or garbage, and whatever emergency protection their government may offer, they know it'll take longer for the aid to reach them than a city dweller would wait. I suppose you could argue that a country mouse has no standard expectation of fire protection in the US -- and for all I know, you could be correct. Mebbe there are vast acres of unincorporated US lands that have no fire protection....I really dun know.

But in THIS county, the one in the story, arrangements were made to furnish fire protection to residents in the outlying areas. I have no idea what you may think are "essential government services", Si. If fire protection does not qualify, why even bother to have a county government at all? Is "Libertarian" just a synonym for "anarchist"?

 

[Valerie]

The weird thing is the $75 fee is essentially an insurance policy for fire services, but I wonder why the homeowner isn't already required to hold an insurance policy for fire damages that would increased his premium by more than $75 due to his not insuring fire services which would potentially minimize damage to his property???

 

[Valerie]

So you agree with the decision to let the guys house burn down?

I do and I'm not a conservative either.

I'd imagine you would be singing a different tune if it was YOUR home.

If it was my home I would have paid the annual $75 when it was due because I'm a responsible person and don't expect someone else to pull my weight. I live in a condominium right now. The HOA insures any damage to the outside of my unit, like the roof, etc., but nothing on the inside. So I went and bought condo insurance to cover the inside of my place, in case I ever have a fire or something. I didn't have to. The HOA insurance covering the outside structure was sufficient for my mortgage company, but I chose to get the inside insurance because it's the responsible thing to do.

I think you're right that this guy in this situation is ultimately responsible, but I still think the town/county/state leadership is wrong to make public fire service optional like that in the first place. Terrible public leadership, IMO.

I'd love to see the rest of their budget and how they prioritize existing public funds.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The 'victim' was interviewed by Olbermann this evening. Has Fox 'news' reported on the incident?

Have echo chamber members looked into the facts of the matter?

 

[saveliberty]

So you agree with the decision to let the guys house burn down?

I do and I'm not a conservative either.

I'd imagine you would be singing a different tune if it was YOUR home.

If it was my home I would have paid the annual $75 when it was due because I'm a responsible person and don't expect someone else to pull my weight. I live in a condominium right now. The HOA insures any damage to the outside of my unit, like the roof, etc., but nothing on the inside. So I went and bought condo insurance to cover the inside of my place, in case I ever have a fire or something. I didn't have to. The HOA insurance covering the outside structure was sufficient for my mortgage company, but I chose to get the inside insurance because it's the responsible thing to do.

I think you're right that this guy in this situation is ultimately responsible, but I still think the town/county/state leadership is wrong to make public fire service optional like that in the first place. Terrible public leadership, IMO.

I'd love to see the rest of their budget and how they prioritize existing public funds.

What they did was take an important service they knew most people would pay for separately and make it so. This freed up other tax dollars. Similiar to making bus runs a separate school finance item.

In a way, it would be interesting if all government services were ala cart. Not very practical however.

 

[Trajan]

The 'victim' was interviewed by Olbermann this evening. Has Fox 'news' reported on the incident?

Have echo chamber members looked into the facts of the matter?

If the article in the OP is inaccurate, please share.

Have you done your due diligence and checked what you saw and heard on mslsd against another source?

 

[Si modo]

You are missing my point. There is no way to eliminate the middleman. The city (or county) is a necessary party to the festivities, so paying via taxation is the most reasonable (I would argue the only reasonable) funding method.

Your point is irrelevant, so of course I'm missing it.

The county residents do not live in the city. Again, duh.

Very valid point. Country people are a whole lot more self-reliant. No one delivers their water, carries away their sewage or garbage, and whatever emergency protection their government may offer, they know it'll take longer for the aid to reach them than a city dweller would wait. I suppose you could argue that a country mouse has no standard expectation of fire protection in the US -- and for all I know, you could be correct. Mebbe there are vast acres of unincorporated US lands that have no fire protection....I really dun know.

But in THIS county, the one in the story, arrangements were made to furnish fire protection to residents in the outlying areas. I have no idea what you may think are "essential government services", Si. If fire protection does not qualify, why even bother to have a county government at all? Is "Libertarian" just a synonym for "anarchist"?

WTH are you going on about now?

Look, somehow you think folks would pay the same amount they currently pay directly to the provider if they paid first to the government who would then allocate the money to the provider. Fine. Think that all you want. It won't make it anywhere close to reality.

It's a CITY service that COUNTY residents pay directly to the FD. If the COUNTY residents are taxed for the service, the COUNTY will assess the tax, collect that tax, and allocate that tax to the service - the CITY FD. Sure. Right. That system will cost the COUNTY residents the same amount as they currently pay directly to the FD.

This seems so difficult for you to understand. And now you're going on about something unrelated to that point I made - cut out the middleman and it's cheaper - and quoting something I never typed. WTH?

Try to focus.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wanna know what a conservative only world looks like? Look no further than Obion County, Tennessee:

Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won’t respond, then watches it burn. That’s exactly what happened to a local family tonight. A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.

The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn’t do anything to stop his house from burning. Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay. The mayor said if homeowners don’t pay, they’re out of luck. [...]

We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception. “Anybody that’s not in the city of South Fulton, it’s a service we offer, either they accept it or they don’t,” Mayor David Crocker said.

Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground | WPSD Local 6 - News, Sports, Weather - Paducah KY | Local

As ThinkProgress points out:

A local newspaper further pressed Mayor Crocker about the city’s policy, which has been in place since 1990. Crocker, a Republican who was elected in 2008 and serves with a county commission where every seat is also filled by a Republican, likened the policy to buying auto insurance

Just one prime example of the difference between the way conservatives govern and the way progressives govern.

As TP put it:

One, the conservative vision, believes in the on-your-own society, and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well off and privileged sectors of the country. The other vision, the progressive one, believes in an American Dream that works for all people, regardless of their racial, religious, or economic background.

Think Progress Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters Watch As Family Home Burns Down

That's the choice we have this november- The conservative fend-for-yourself (besides the companies that ship jobs overseas) choice, or the liberal I-am-my-brothers-keeper choice.

The sooner we learn that we are NOT our brother's keeper, the better off we will be for it.
For too long an increasing percentage of the population has been programmed to think they are entitled to the largesse of the producers.
This thinking has made us weak and whiny.
Typical is the reaction by the takers when an entitlement is to be reduced or eliminated.
Thinks Progress... A whiny assed liberal blog.....
What the Left refuses to acknowledge is that through their feelings they demand government enact policies whcih they see as worthy. In a perfect world i see nothing with an individual wanting to be his brother's keeper.
The problem I have is the Left uses the threat of government sanctions to insure that ALL must pay up for their wishes..
If it were so damned important to you that this particular homeonwer ,who refused to pay his fire dept fee, had fire protection, why did YOU not pay it for him. After all, you are your brother's keeper.
Look. We should take care of our families and ourselves first. When there is something left over after we take care of OUR responsibilites, then we can go ahead and donate as much time and money as we wish.
Question... If this person can afford a home, why then could he not afford to pay the fee?

 

[thereisnospoon]

just like a demonRat. won't pay for a service, wants the service, expects it for free, and expects conservatives to pay for their service. Thanks for posting basementdweller. It's typical of demonRat behavior.

You're exactly what is wrong with America. If you woulda read the fucking article, you would see he offered to pay if they would put the fire out.. But they basically said tough luck, and it wasn't until it spread to the neighbours (who has the "coverage") that they put it out.
What happened to helping people, and not worrying about cost or profit? Imagine if this had been the mayor of this town.. Gu-ran-tee they woulda put that fire out, regardless if he'd have payed the fee.

Why didn't he save himself the trouble and pay on time like everyone else?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wanna know what a conservative only world looks like? Look no further than Obion County, Tennessee:

Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground | WPSD Local 6 - News, Sports, Weather - Paducah KY | Local

As ThinkProgress points out:


Just one prime example of the difference between the way conservatives govern and the way progressives govern.

As TP put it:


Think Progress Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters Watch As Family Home Burns Down

That's the choice we have this november- The conservative fend-for-yourself (besides the companies that ship jobs overseas) choice, or the liberal I-am-my-brothers-keeper choice.

You will learn something when you grow up and live without parental support. You don't get what you don't pay for.

So you agree with the decision to let the guys house burn down? I'd imagine you would be singing a different tune if it was YOUR home.

No. I would have paid the fuckin fee on time.
Jesus Christ you lefites are a miracle.

 

[saveliberty]

Another way of looking at this is, this guy didn't respect his property enough to pay $75 a year, but fire fighters are suppose to risk their lives to save it at no charge.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Who was in charge twenty years in the city/county ago when this policy went into place? Seems to me a county wide tax would have been a better way to go.

Some state's statutes do not allow a city to tax those who do not reside in the city. And since the county goverment apparently does not have an FD, they could not tax the county residents for a service they could not provide.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Great thread. A perfect example of conservative thought.

Consider, one doesn't pay for healthcare, yet they are ill and go to the emergency room and are turned away. Doctors watch, and do nothing; the ill actor - too cheap to pay for healthcare - coughs and spreads a highly infectious agent around the hospital, on the bus home and at the drug store where s/he buys an ineffective but expensive product to disguise the symptoms.

Um that is illegal. All public hospitals MUST treat and stabilize all patients admitted. All patients MUST be admitted for treatment withiout regard for their insurance status.
Your statement is a non-sequitur...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Glad to see you agree with the decision to let the house burn to the ground. My point is proven.

I don't agree with allowing someone's house to burn but the guy did roll the dice. I can imagine when it came time to pay he was probably thinking "Fuck them". They got to his house and said "fuck you".

For all you know, this guy just moved in, and had no idea you had to pay for fire coverage. But, I guess we should do this with the Police too, huh? "I'm being kidnapped!" "Have you payed your anual fee for police protection?" "No" "Tough luck!"
Yeah, that'd work nicely.

Oh please. Is there no bottom to your basket of excuses?
Young man, you have obviously led a suburban sheltered life.
you're quite willing to spend other people's money so you can feel better at night. The public schools have indictrinated you well. Wide eyed and full of piss and vinegar. You want to save the world, don;t you. And you'll do just that by opening the bank accounts of others..
Oh, since we're supposing... Suppose the firefighters decided to extinguish the non payor's fire while simultaneously in a nearby neighborhood a PAYING homeowner's house fire goes unchecked....What say you now?
Get out in the world and come back when you're dry behind the ears.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I think you're right that this guy in this situation is ultimately responsible, but I still think the town/county/state leadership is wrong to make public fire service optional like that in the first place. Terrible public leadership, IMO.

Well, that's an entirely different issue and I don't necessarily disagree with you, but under the current set up, the home owner screwed himself.

 

[thereisnospoon]

pretty stupid not to pay the $75

his insurance co will probably tell him to go shit in his hat, too.

it's been the policy for 20 years; he rolled the dice and lost.


stupid

Yes, stupid; yet, isn't that what the argument on forcing people to pay for healthcare comes down to? See my post above, and consider, fires spreads and allowing a house to burn might have other consequences. Did the homeowner store ammunition in his home? What happens when ammunition and fire mix? How about propane tanks, fuel in vehicles or other chemicals such fertilizers?

Then the fire would have been definitely left to burn. The firefighters would then do what they had to do to protect any endangered adjacent properties.
And no. This has nothing to do with healthcare.. However I must ask. Do you think medical care of any kind should be dispensed free of out of pocket expense?

 

[saveliberty]

Yes, stupid; yet, isn't that what the argument on forcing people to pay for healthcare comes down to? See my post above, and consider, fires spreads and allowing a house to burn might have other consequences. Did the homeowner store ammunition in his home? What happens when ammunition and fire mix? How about propane tanks, fuel in vehicles or other chemicals such fertilizers?

Who was forcing this guy to buy fire protection? Apparently no one or someone who did a poor job. No, what would happen with healthcare type rules is the person would have been fined $25 for not purchasing fire protection. THen he could decide whether the $25 and no protection was preferable to $75 and having protection. Note it is still a choice and no one is "forcing" him to buy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

YoungLefty, I understand your outrage but there's a piece missing here. Why are residents of an outlying area of the county reliant on the city next to them for fire protection? And if they choose to go that-a-way, what genius thought fire protection should be optional? The county should have taxed its residents and paid the city to expand its fire department.

Gotta ask....what about ambulance and para-medic services? Are these also optional? WTF kind of world do we live in if you call 911 and the dispatcher asks for your taxpayer ID number? How did this defect in the protection services go unnoticed for twenty years?

I wonder what the firefighters would have done if there had been people trapped in that burning building? This has to have been traumatic for them too. It is not their fault, they could not control what happened, yet they are being held up as callus bastards.

Good questions... Perhaps I can shed some light..
It is possible that TN law does not allow a county to tax for services which it cannot provide and a city cannot tax those who do not reside within the city limits.

Here in my state. there are what are called "non fire insurance zones"...These are areas whch are of course rural. The nearest fire house is so distant that the time required to respond would almost certainly result in the destruction of the home. This also makes getting a bank to lend money for the purchase of a home a bit sticky
Yes the nearest fire company does respond, but the time to arrive is great.
Quite frankly I have never heard of a county that does not have local volunteer fire departments scattered about the unincorporated areas.
This is one of the failures of the system of incorporation. Yes, those who choose to live in remote areas to avoid paying city or town taxes have that right. But they also severly limit their access to services. IN my home state and many others in the northeast, we have the township system. In that arrangement all land lies within a township, borough, city or village. All areas are incorporated and thus all residents have full access to all services. Yes, taxes are higher but the tradeoff is the taxpayer receives all government services

 

[thereisnospoon]

The public policy should require fire services for all citizens in any event, but could stipulate if anyone opted not pay the minimal fee for public fire service, then they would be subject to x amount of charges ($ thousands) in the event public fire services are needed by them.

Ok.. so you're saying risk paying thousands in lieu of paying less than $100..