Five myths about Libertarianism

[NYcarbineer]

Only as long as it doesn't involve killing another human being.

And has God informed us on that?

I dunno did <fill in the blank for whatever your concept of the divine is> ? Personally I base my evaluation on credible, peer reviewed scientific method and reason. If you prefer to wait for messages from on high, then that of course is your choice.

You're the one that just said abortion is a God given right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Back to the 'myths'.

According to Pew Research, libertarians are 67% male.

Section 3: Demographics and News Sources | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

 

[NightFox]

And has God informed us on that?

I dunno did <fill in the blank for whatever your concept of the divine is> ? Personally I base my evaluation on credible, peer reviewed scientific method and reason. If you prefer to wait for messages from on high, then that of course is your choice.

You're the one that just said abortion is a God given right.

Actually you're the one that said that... go back and read who wrote what, personally I make an effort to refer to rights as granted by virtue of our humanity in an effort to be respectful of the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) of others.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I beieve most libertarians (little "L") probably still defend that concept though they are often divided on the thornier issue of whether the unborn baby is a human life. At least they struggle with the morality of that.

IMHO The "thornier issue" to me is not whether the unborn baby is a human life but the question of whether it is a human being, questions such as is it self-aware? does it have the capacity for reason? if it does have these attributes when does it acquire them? remain unanswered (as far as I know) via peer-reviewed, credible scientific method.

I suspect at some point we will have the answers to these questions at which point a re-evaluation of the moral question will be in order.

And whatever those answers might be, thankfully the Constitution and its case law allow each individual to make a good faith decision concerning the issue, based on his moral beliefs and his own good conscience, free from interference by the state.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I dunno did <fill in the blank for whatever your concept of the divine is> ? Personally I base my evaluation on credible, peer reviewed scientific method and reason. If you prefer to wait for messages from on high, then that of course is your choice.

You're the one that just said abortion is a God given right.

Actually you're the one that said that... go back and read who wrote what, personally I make an effort to refer to rights as granted by virtue of our humanity in an effort to be respectful of the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) of others.

Q. The right to an abortion is God given isn't it? It's a woman's inalienable right.


A. Only as long as it doesn't involve killing another human being.

 

[thanatos144]

You dont think legalizing drug and cut and running isn't legislating morality?

Ok... i try not to step in the thanatos, I really do, but this is too hilarious to pass up. You're saying legalizing something is 'legislating morality'? Do other people think this way? Anybody?

Technically, he is correct. The sad part is he doesn't see that criminalizing drugs is legislating a different morality. That might be because he doesn't know how to argue.

Never once have i made that argument

 

[thanatos144]

I understand completely where you are coming from, what I was trying to get at (ineffective communication on my part) was the idea that the person that contends that government legalizing something is "legislating morality" doesn't understand morality correctly in the first place. They can't because the basis of their view of morality is a lie, after all how can one be said to understand morality if one believes that the same morals don't apply to everyone?

Sorry I didn't mean to derail your discussion or anything....

what a arrogant piece of work you are.

Fuck off, you are the arrogant one right now.

And, yes, I am arrogant, I know it and admit it, so don't bother trying to make me look bad by pointing it out.

I am not the one insulting others for using Faith to shape their lives.

 

[thanatos144]

Passing a law banning all abortion is unconstitutional, so yes you do need an amendment to the Constitution, or at the very least an overturning of Roe, to make that 'killing' illegal.

You don't need to pass a law banning all abortion if you can demonstrate that a fetus is a human being since killing a human being is already against the law, right? It's also against generally accepted morality, right? If you cannot demonstrate that a fetus meets the generally accepted criteria for a human being then preventing the mother from aborting it would violate the mothers right to self-ownership, right?

The Constitution is the law of the land, not JUST a piece of paper.

It's just a piece of paper, it has words on it, it's not some magic relic that supplants the need for morality and reason.

The right to an abortion is God given isn't it? It's a woman's inalienable right.

No it isn't

 

[Plasmaball]

Addiction isnt a large issue... that is some stupidity on such a high level I dont think anyone will touch it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"FYI, drug treatment is based on the assumption that drugs are evil"

They are not evil but most drugs are bad for you and addiction is a large problem now especially with seniors eating dope like candy ala the Bush Gramps and Granny Dope Buffet, all you can eat at taxpayer's expense.
Hate to break the news to you there but drug stores now bid the highest of any business entity when a prime corner opens up in a new commercial district.
And they have a drive through window for you to pick up your Viagra.
The Republicans started the war on drugs, Reagan pushed laws that sent a crack dealer with a hand full of crack to prison longer than a bank robber that pistol whipped the teller and Bush II ran on a platform of Democrats are weak on the war on drugs.
Nice to have someone like me school you once again isn't it?
Sticks and stones, I have been shot at, beat up and left for dead. Played 4 quarters against some of the best.

What evidence do you have that addiction is a large problem? Is it the fact that the courts are putting a large number of people into programs that make money for the corporations and the government?


Like I said, until you learn how to think beyond your partisanship you will remain the same stupid person.

What party am I partisan to?
This ought to be rich.
You are a complete dumbass if you do not know addiction is a large problem in the senior community and in society at large.
I am in the criminal courts almost daily and drug addiction, more often prescription dope cases, are epidemic.
Prescription drug overdoses are 8 to 1 at emergency rooms over illegal dope.
You are stupid as a brick, most all of the drug programs they put these people into are funded by government you fool.
You really need to stay away from things you know nothing about. You are the partisan hack here parroting what is spoon fed to you by media.
You really believe meth heads have money for "corporations" that have drug clinics?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
And when they get out on bond, if they can ever make bond, that they have money for drug clinics?
You do know that prescription dope is the preferred dope and is the easiest to get addicted to you, don't you?
Prescription drug abuse causes the largest % of deaths in the US from dope.
Again, what party am I partisan to? Tell me who I voted for last election.

You don't have to support a party to be partisan, something anyone who considers themselves well informed would understand.

Definition if partisan: A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.

Let me ask you something. As a brick, I fail to understand how the fact that government pays corporations to do something proves that corporations are not making money off of it. I am sure that you, such you are almost as smart as you think I am, can explain that.

I don't know anything just because somebody says it. Where is the data that proves that seniors have a large problem with addition? I am quite familiar with the criminal court system and the way it treats drug offenders, and have seen with my own eyes that most of them are not addicts, whatever it is that you think an addict is.

Most people who are arrested on drug charges are people who use the system to get away with something that shouldn't be illegal in the first place. They claim to be addicts, get diverted into rehab programs, and go right back to causal use of drugs when it will no longer cause them a serious problem with the courts. I see no reason to suspect that seniors are any less capable of gaming the system simply because they are old, but I could be wrong.

As for meth, the National Institute on Drug Abuse reports that 5.3% of adults over the age of 26 have reported using meth at least once. Strangely enough, they don't report how many people are addicted to it. Considering that the same survey of the same people reports that only 0.4% used it in the last year, and only 0.2% have used it in the last month, my guess is that it is nowhere near the problem you think it is.

Feel free to provide something besides your totally biased personal testimony, if you know how.

Methamphetamine | National Institute on Drug Abuse

 

[NightFox]

You're the one that just said abortion is a God given right.

Actually you're the one that said that... go back and read who wrote what, personally I make an effort to refer to rights as granted by virtue of our humanity in an effort to be respectful of the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) of others.

Q. The right to an abortion is God given isn't it? It's a woman's inalienable right.


A. Only as long as it doesn't involve killing another human being.

Q.The right to an abortion is God given isn't it? It's a woman's inalienable right.

You wrote this

A. Only as long as it doesn't involve killing another human being.

I wrote this in response

Which one of us made the claim regarding "God Given" ?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The issue is not whether or not the fetus is human...

That is the only issue in abortion. If it wasn't an issue no one would be arguing about it.

No one disputes that it's human. It's part of a human body. Nobody disputes that your tonsils are human, do they?

Do you understand what the word human means? Hair is not human, even if you can argue that it is human tissue at some point. Human is the entire thing that you are, and includes the ability to think and reason.

Come to think of it, you might not be human by that definition, which could totally explain your problem here.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I said human tissue. If you can prove a fetus is made of something other than human tissue, let's hear it.

Are you something more than human tissue? If not, can I flush you down the toilet without repercussion? If yes, how, and when did it happen?

I am 100% human tissue, and whatever else human parts may be called, bone, etc., except for some dental work.

I have rights that fetuses don't have, because of the law.

The law does not give you rights, unless you count things like voting as a right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So apparently a Libertarian is someone who wants to get rid of the government he doesn't like,

and keep the government he does like.

Which is pretty much everyone's opinion.

I don't like any government.

I am, however, willing to keep some government around for the people who believe they need government in order to define their freedom.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I beieve most libertarians (little "L") probably still defend that concept though they are often divided on the thornier issue of whether the unborn baby is a human life. At least they struggle with the morality of that.

IMHO The "thornier issue" to me is not whether the unborn baby is a human life but the question of whether it is a human being, questions such as is it self-aware? does it have the capacity for reason? if it does have these attributes when does it acquire them? remain unanswered (as far as I know) via peer-reviewed, credible scientific method.

I suspect at some point we will have the answers to these questions at which point a re-evaluation of the moral question will be in order.

And whatever those answers might be, thankfully the Constitution and its case law allow each individual to make a good faith decision concerning the issue, based on his moral beliefs and his own good conscience, free from interference by the state.

The Constitution is not a religion, stop treating it like one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ok... i try not to step in the thanatos, I really do, but this is too hilarious to pass up. You're saying legalizing something is 'legislating morality'? Do other people think this way? Anybody?

Technically, he is correct. The sad part is he doesn't see that criminalizing drugs is legislating a different morality. That might be because he doesn't know how to argue.

Never once have i made that argument

Never once did I say you did.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

what a arrogant piece of work you are.

Fuck off, you are the arrogant one right now.

And, yes, I am arrogant, I know it and admit it, so don't bother trying to make me look bad by pointing it out.

I am not the one insulting others for using Faith to shape their lives.

Who is doing that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Addiction isnt a large issue... that is some stupidity on such a high level I dont think anyone will touch it.

Other than GaDawg you mean?

 

[Gadawg73]

What evidence do you have that addiction is a large problem? Is it the fact that the courts are putting a large number of people into programs that make money for the corporations and the government?


Like I said, until you learn how to think beyond your partisanship you will remain the same stupid person.

What party am I partisan to?
This ought to be rich.
You are a complete dumbass if you do not know addiction is a large problem in the senior community and in society at large.
I am in the criminal courts almost daily and drug addiction, more often prescription dope cases, are epidemic.
Prescription drug overdoses are 8 to 1 at emergency rooms over illegal dope.
You are stupid as a brick, most all of the drug programs they put these people into are funded by government you fool.
You really need to stay away from things you know nothing about. You are the partisan hack here parroting what is spoon fed to you by media.
You really believe meth heads have money for "corporations" that have drug clinics?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
And when they get out on bond, if they can ever make bond, that they have money for drug clinics?
You do know that prescription dope is the preferred dope and is the easiest to get addicted to you, don't you?
Prescription drug abuse causes the largest % of deaths in the US from dope.
Again, what party am I partisan to? Tell me who I voted for last election.

You don't have to support a party to be partisan, something anyone who considers themselves well informed would understand.

Definition if partisan: A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.

Let me ask you something. As a brick, I fail to understand how the fact that government pays corporations to do something proves that corporations are not making money off of it. I am sure that you, such you are almost as smart as you think I am, can explain that.

I don't know anything just because somebody says it. Where is the data that proves that seniors have a large problem with addition? I am quite familiar with the criminal court system and the way it treats drug offenders, and have seen with my own eyes that most of them are not addicts, whatever it is that you think an addict is.

Most people who are arrested on drug charges are people who use the system to get away with something that shouldn't be illegal in the first place. They claim to be addicts, get diverted into rehab programs, and go right back to causal use of drugs when it will no longer cause them a serious problem with the courts. I see no reason to suspect that seniors are any less capable of gaming the system simply because they are old, but I could be wrong.

As for meth, the National Institute on Drug Abuse reports that 5.3% of adults over the age of 26 have reported using meth at least once. Strangely enough, they don't report how many people are addicted to it. Considering that the same survey of the same people reports that only 0.4% used it in the last year, and only 0.2% have used it in the last month, my guess is that it is nowhere near the problem you think it is.

Feel free to provide something besides your totally biased personal testimony, if you know how.

Methamphetamine | National Institute on Drug Abuse

Ok, then what party, cause, faction, person or idea am I a fervent supporter or proponent of?
Can you answer the question without the other half dozen paragraphs of bull shit?

 

[thanatos144]

Fuck off, you are the arrogant one right now.

And, yes, I am arrogant, I know it and admit it, so don't bother trying to make me look bad by pointing it out.

I am not the one insulting others for using Faith to shape their lives.

Who is doing that?

The persons who post i quoted. Now its your turn to divert by saying something about my intelligence trying hide your partisanship