Fixing Inequality

[Iceman]

Inequality just proves people are not born equal. Inequality is natural.

 

[Brain357]

"Ok, so you actually think making over $20 an hour with just a HS diploma is the norm? "
I neither stated nor implied that.
The message I attempt to convey is that unlike you lefties with your ever present 'woe is us' whine, what I have accomplished IS possible for a person such as myself who has just a HS education.

Actually you called horseshit. So your trying to say that my statement wasn't true. But statistics show I'm right. The fact is that the majority of people with HS diplomas make less than $20. I didn't say it wasn't possible, but it's getting more and more unlikely.

Which statistics are those?
No. It's not getting less likely. You made that up.
Have you been paying attention? There are literally tons of technical and adult based educational opportunities for people to learn a skill or trade. All they have to do is make the effort. No college degree needed. Effort.
But no. You'd rather pine for the "good old days". When a kid could allegedly walk into the factory and take a job for the next 40 years....The labor market no longer supports that. Training and skills are now required. Get them.

Well lets see. Median weekly income for a person with a high school diploma is $625. That's quite a bit short of $20.
Earnings and unemployment rates by educational attainment

Gets even worse for those aged 25-34.
The Condition of Education - Population Characteristics - Economic Outcomes - Annual Earnings of Young Adults - Indicator May (2013)

Do you live in a different country? Have you noticed how high unemployment has been? Sorry but the jobs just aren't there, who cares about effort.

 

[Brain357]

That's a load of horseshit. I have a HS education and some college courses specific to what I do and I am up over $20 per hour. No union either. And why am I paid this way? Because I took the time to learn the skills necessary to attain this level of earnings.
The problem with the labor market looking toward degreed people is not that the HS grad cannot do the work. The problem is there are over one million people each year getting either 2 or 4 year degrees. Supply and demand. What's an employer going to look at when the HR manager sees a 4 yr degree on one resume and a HS diploma on another? Of course the 4 yr degree is going to get the nod. The other fact is that the average HS grad simply does not have the education to learn the skills that have replaced the hands on type of work with technical ability. In other words where as a machine in a factory once required two people to operate with many parts of the operation being manual, now that machine is run by computer and produces three times as much product in half the time. The operator must be able to program the computer that runs the machine. Unless the HS grad has gone to a tech school, he or she doesn't stand a chance of getting the job over the guy with the college degree.
I don't agree with this entirely, but I understand.

Ok, so you actually think making over $20 an hour with just a HS diploma is the norm? Or do you think people making that much is much more rare than it used to be? I think jobs making that much are much harder to find now.

Not if you have a marketable skill you trained for.... MANY in the IT business are NOT college trained.. obtaining OJT, working themselves up, getting professional certs etc.. and that is not the only field where this happens (plumbing, construction, electrician, mechanic, etc etc etc etc)

HS diploma is not a limiter, just as bullshit college degree is not a guarantee

IT? Sorry but many of those jobs are overseas now. Construction? Your kidding right? You seen a house get built lately? Not exactly high paying jobs. Sorry but everybody can't be a plumber or an electrician.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix something that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

 

[Iceman]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

Everyone should make the same amount of money? That is thinking straight?

OK buddy, whatever you say...

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

Everyone should make the same amount of money? That is thinking straight?

OK buddy, whatever you say...

Except, if reading comprehension takes root in you, you will discover that what I wrote is the exact OPPOSITE of what YOU just said.

Let's try it again, shall we? Yes. We shall:

I hereby QUOTE myself: "I don't want there to be income equality.

Let us highlight the operative word: "I don't want there to be income equality."

Get it yet?

 

[Brain357]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

Well, that is a small step in the right direction.

CLEARLY stating the thesis helps.

You lot are NOT seeking income equality. Good. For that would be all stupid and shit.

But you seem to imagine that you have or even SHOULD have some "voice" in determining how much wealth should be permitted or allowable.

Few of you who subscribe to THAT notion can (or are even willing to try) to explain HOW you will draw the lines or by what claim of right you would seek to do it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Actually you called horseshit. So your trying to say that my statement wasn't true. But statistics show I'm right. The fact is that the majority of people with HS diplomas make less than $20. I didn't say it wasn't possible, but it's getting more and more unlikely.

Which statistics are those?
No. It's not getting less likely. You made that up.
Have you been paying attention? There are literally tons of technical and adult based educational opportunities for people to learn a skill or trade. All they have to do is make the effort. No college degree needed. Effort.
But no. You'd rather pine for the "good old days". When a kid could allegedly walk into the factory and take a job for the next 40 years....The labor market no longer supports that. Training and skills are now required. Get them.

Well lets see. Median weekly income for a person with a high school diploma is $625. That's quite a bit short of $20.
Earnings and unemployment rates by educational attainment

Gets even worse for those aged 25-34.
The Condition of Education - Population Characteristics - Economic Outcomes - Annual Earnings of Young Adults - Indicator May (2013)

Do you live in a different country? Have you noticed how high unemployment has been? Sorry but the jobs just aren't there, who cares about effort.

Yeah...An I just through explaining the solution to that. Everyone knows it takes more education and/or training to earn a good living. It is what it is.
Where's the problem?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ok, so you actually think making over $20 an hour with just a HS diploma is the norm? Or do you think people making that much is much more rare than it used to be? I think jobs making that much are much harder to find now.

Not if you have a marketable skill you trained for.... MANY in the IT business are NOT college trained.. obtaining OJT, working themselves up, getting professional certs etc.. and that is not the only field where this happens (plumbing, construction, electrician, mechanic, etc etc etc etc)

HS diploma is not a limiter, just as bullshit college degree is not a guarantee

IT? Sorry but many of those jobs are overseas now. Construction? Your kidding right? You seen a house get built lately? Not exactly high paying jobs. Sorry but everybody can't be a plumber or an electrician.

No they aren't. Most of those are low paying entry level customer service or call center jobs.
Yes, there are IT jobs overseas as well. There are still plenty here.
Yeah..Housing starts are recovering. So is the remodeling business.
Why can't more people become skilled tradespeople?....Keep making excuses. Your argument gets weaker with every post.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

Income equality has been tried on numerous occasions. The last country to shit the bed was the USSR....
Income equality is incompatible with a market based economy and a freedom loving people.
You are posting opinion pieces. Nobody cares.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

If Denmark is the land of opportunity, SEE YA!!!

 

[Brain357]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

Well, that is a small step in the right direction.

CLEARLY stating the thesis helps.

You lot are NOT seeking income equality. Good. For that would be all stupid and shit.

But you seem to imagine that you have or even SHOULD have some "voice" in determining how much wealth should be permitted or allowable.

Few of you who subscribe to THAT notion can (or are even willing to try) to explain HOW you will draw the lines or by what claim of right you would seek to do it.

I don't think it's about determining how much wealth should be allowable. I think people should be able to get as rich as they can. But if somebody is getting incredibly rich they should be filtering some of that down to those below them. Look at how huge and profitable Walmart is. But they pay employees so little that many of them qualify for food stamps. And meanwhile executives are making huge sums of money. CEO's now make 354 times that of the average worker:
CEOs earn 354 times more than average worker - Apr. 15, 2013
In 1980 it was 42 times the average worker. Now do you think CEO's are working that much harder now? Something seems rigged to me.

Government is covering for all the low wages and poor benefits companies are paying. This is how we got obamacare. This is why food stamps are growing so fast. Government is growing while the rich profit.

So I think you use the tax system and give great breaks for companies that are giving good wages and benefits. If they aren't then well let them pay lots of taxes.

I used to believe in trickle down economics, but now I've had years to see it not work. The very rich need an incentive to do the right thing. The only incentive I can think of is taxes.

 

[Brain357]

Let us question the premise (not necessarily the premise of the thread).

Why should any of us seek to "fix" inequality?

If we are talking about INCOME inequality, I say I don't want to fix soemthing that is NOT a problem.

I don't want there to be income equality.

If you favor income equality, you are not thinking straight.

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

Income equality has been tried on numerous occasions. The last country to shit the bed was the USSR....
Income equality is incompatible with a market based economy and a freedom loving people.
You are posting opinion pieces. Nobody cares.

Like I just stated, I don't see anyone looking for income equality. Pay attention.

 

[Brain357]

Not if you have a marketable skill you trained for.... MANY in the IT business are NOT college trained.. obtaining OJT, working themselves up, getting professional certs etc.. and that is not the only field where this happens (plumbing, construction, electrician, mechanic, etc etc etc etc)

HS diploma is not a limiter, just as bullshit college degree is not a guarantee

IT? Sorry but many of those jobs are overseas now. Construction? Your kidding right? You seen a house get built lately? Not exactly high paying jobs. Sorry but everybody can't be a plumber or an electrician.

No they aren't. Most of those are low paying entry level customer service or call center jobs.
Yes, there are IT jobs overseas as well. There are still plenty here.
Yeah..Housing starts are recovering. So is the remodeling business.
Why can't more people become skilled tradespeople?....Keep making excuses. Your argument gets weaker with every post.

Oh sure there are tons of jobs everywhere. Do you pay attention to the unemployment rate or the lack of growth in our economy? Please back up what you saying with something that at least resembles a statistic. Till you do your really just posting a lot of nothing.

 

[Indeependent]

IT? Sorry but many of those jobs are overseas now. Construction? Your kidding right? You seen a house get built lately? Not exactly high paying jobs. Sorry but everybody can't be a plumber or an electrician.

No they aren't. Most of those are low paying entry level customer service or call center jobs.
Yes, there are IT jobs overseas as well. There are still plenty here.
Yeah..Housing starts are recovering. So is the remodeling business.
Why can't more people become skilled tradespeople?....Keep making excuses. Your argument gets weaker with every post.

Oh sure there are tons of jobs everywhere. Do you pay attention to the unemployment rate or the lack of growth in our economy? Please back up what you saying with something that at least resembles a statistic. Till you do your really just posting a lot of nothing.

spoon is correct in stating that there are plenty of IT jobs in the US.
What he omits is that 95% of these jobs have been given to low wage Indian H1-Bs.

 

[The Rabbi]

No they aren't. Most of those are low paying entry level customer service or call center jobs.
Yes, there are IT jobs overseas as well. There are still plenty here.
Yeah..Housing starts are recovering. So is the remodeling business.
Why can't more people become skilled tradespeople?....Keep making excuses. Your argument gets weaker with every post.

Oh sure there are tons of jobs everywhere. Do you pay attention to the unemployment rate or the lack of growth in our economy? Please back up what you saying with something that at least resembles a statistic. Till you do your really just posting a lot of nothing.

spoon is correct in stating that there are plenty of IT jobs in the US.
What he omits is that 95% of these jobs have been given to low wage Indian H1-Bs.

I'd ask for proof of that figure but I know from past experience you are merely lying.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think it's gross amounts of inequality that is the problem. I haven't yet heard anyone saying there should be equality.

Have you noticed all the countries with high inequality aren't exactly the who's who of places you'd want to live? There is a reason for that.

Countries with less inequality are on top of the happiness rankings. What a surprise.

Take a look at this:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider
Look at how low social mobility is now in the US. Looks like Denmark is the new land of opportunity.

Have you noticed how slow our economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Well too much inequality is bad for economic growth.
Income Inequality Is the Enemy of Economic Growth: Robert Reich | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance

Oh it's a problem all right.

Well, that is a small step in the right direction.

CLEARLY stating the thesis helps.

You lot are NOT seeking income equality. Good. For that would be all stupid and shit.

But you seem to imagine that you have or even SHOULD have some "voice" in determining how much wealth should be permitted or allowable.

Few of you who subscribe to THAT notion can (or are even willing to try) to explain HOW you will draw the lines or by what claim of right you would seek to do it.

I don't think it's about determining how much wealth should be allowable. I think people should be able to get as rich as they can. But if somebody is getting incredibly rich they should be filtering some of that down to those below them. Look at how huge and profitable Walmart is. But they pay employees so little that many of them qualify for food stamps. And meanwhile executives are making huge sums of money. CEO's now make 354 times that of the average worker:
CEOs earn 354 times more than average worker - Apr. 15, 2013
In 1980 it was 42 times the average worker. Now do you think CEO's are working that much harder now? Something seems rigged to me.

Government is covering for all the low wages and poor benefits companies are paying. This is how we got obamacare. This is why food stamps are growing so fast. Government is growing while the rich profit.

So I think you use the tax system and give great breaks for companies that are giving good wages and benefits. If they aren't then well let them pay lots of taxes.

I used to believe in trickle down economics, but now I've had years to see it not work. The very rich need an incentive to do the right thing. The only incentive I can think of is taxes.

Another "I used to be a Republican" retard. I dont believe for a second you have been anything other than a clueless leftist (tautology I know).
It doesnt matter how hard or not hard CEOs work. They dont have to justify their salaries and benefits to anyone but their boards. It doesnt matter how much or how little they pay workers. They dont have to justify their pay to anyone but their boards. If the pay is too low, no one will work for it. The fact that people are lined up to take jobs at WalMart tells you they are offering decent (and dependable) wages.
It isn't any of your business. Understand that.

 

[Brain357]

Oh sure there are tons of jobs everywhere. Do you pay attention to the unemployment rate or the lack of growth in our economy? Please back up what you saying with something that at least resembles a statistic. Till you do your really just posting a lot of nothing.

spoon is correct in stating that there are plenty of IT jobs in the US.
What he omits is that 95% of these jobs have been given to low wage Indian H1-Bs.

I'd ask for proof of that figure but I know from past experience you are merely lying.

How about some proof that all these jobs are out there? The unemployment rate says they aren't.

 

[Brain357]

Well, that is a small step in the right direction.

CLEARLY stating the thesis helps.

You lot are NOT seeking income equality. Good. For that would be all stupid and shit.

But you seem to imagine that you have or even SHOULD have some "voice" in determining how much wealth should be permitted or allowable.

Few of you who subscribe to THAT notion can (or are even willing to try) to explain HOW you will draw the lines or by what claim of right you would seek to do it.

I don't think it's about determining how much wealth should be allowable. I think people should be able to get as rich as they can. But if somebody is getting incredibly rich they should be filtering some of that down to those below them. Look at how huge and profitable Walmart is. But they pay employees so little that many of them qualify for food stamps. And meanwhile executives are making huge sums of money. CEO's now make 354 times that of the average worker:
CEOs earn 354 times more than average worker - Apr. 15, 2013
In 1980 it was 42 times the average worker. Now do you think CEO's are working that much harder now? Something seems rigged to me.

Government is covering for all the low wages and poor benefits companies are paying. This is how we got obamacare. This is why food stamps are growing so fast. Government is growing while the rich profit.

So I think you use the tax system and give great breaks for companies that are giving good wages and benefits. If they aren't then well let them pay lots of taxes.

I used to believe in trickle down economics, but now I've had years to see it not work. The very rich need an incentive to do the right thing. The only incentive I can think of is taxes.

Another "I used to be a Republican" retard. I dont believe for a second you have been anything other than a clueless leftist (tautology I know).
It doesnt matter how hard or not hard CEOs work. They dont have to justify their salaries and benefits to anyone but their boards. It doesnt matter how much or how little they pay workers. They dont have to justify their pay to anyone but their boards. If the pay is too low, no one will work for it. The fact that people are lined up to take jobs at WalMart tells you they are offering decent (and dependable) wages.
It isn't any of your business. Understand that.

Yes we get it. Republicans are for the rich and you don't care how much it hurts the country, economy and people. You just keep ignoring common sense and all the stats that prove it slows the economy, leads to higher health and social problems, limits upward mobility.... Yes you just care that the rich get richer and the middle class becomes poor. I guess this all explains how Obama won twice, go figure.