Florida Loses $2.4 Billion For High-Speed Trains

[Synthaholic]

I see the Orlando-Tampa line being all about tourism, and is a big boost to Busch Gardens, especially, although the Mouse will quickly figure out how to get all those St. Pete retirees, Tampa/Clearwater young people, and British tourists comfortably over to the Magic Kingdom. Perhaps a direct monorail from the train station.

Now, that's clearly a 'giveaway' to the theme parks, and if it was so important then those parks would finance it themselves...yadda, yadda,...

But does it benefit Florida? Yes!
Will it result in fuller hotels? Yes!
Does Florida receive a nice hotel tax? Yes!
Will restaurants see more business? Yes!
Will Florida receive more revenue because of it? Yes!

Does that mean these businesses will hire more people, who will in turn pay income tax, contributing to the system instead of draining it, and once again becoming consumers? Yes!

And what does this cost? A few billion? I say build it, get our feet wet, learn from it, get it cheaper and better, and utilize it to it's 'highest and best use' across the country.

Anything that will get me through Lakeland faster has got to be good.

 

[Immanuel]

I see the Orlando-Tampa line being all about tourism, and is a big boost to Busch Gardens, especially, although the Mouse will quickly figure out how to get all those St. Pete retirees, Tampa/Clearwater young people, and British tourists comfortably over to the Magic Kingdom. Perhaps a direct monorail from the train station.

Now, that's clearly a 'giveaway' to the theme parks, and if it was so important then those parks would finance it themselves...yadda, yadda,...

But does it benefit Florida? Yes!
Will it result in fuller hotels? Yes!
Does Florida receive a nice hotel tax? Yes!
Will restaurants see more business? Yes!
Will Florida receive more revenue because of it? Yes!

Does that mean these businesses will hire more people, who will in turn pay income tax, contributing to the system instead of draining it, and once again becoming consumers? Yes!

And what does this cost? A few billion? I say build it, get our feet wet, learn from it, get it cheaper and better, and utilize it to it's 'highest and best use' across the country.

Anything that will get me through Lakeland faster has got to be good.

Living just outside of Tampa, I disagree with you. I don't see people flying in to Tampa so that they can take the train to Orlando and with all the Amusement Parks in Orlando, I do not see people going to Disney and then taking the train to Tampa just so they can go to Busch Gardens. That simply isn't going to happen.

Driving through Lakeland has not been much of a problem since they widened I-4.

I do not expect the hotels to be any fuller than they are now. The restaurants won't be any fuller either. People are not going to come to Orlando simply because there is HSR between Tampa and Orlando.

What will it cost? A few billion dollars that the U.S. Government should not be throwing away at the moment.

Immie

 

[Synthaholic]

I see the Orlando-Tampa line being all about tourism, and is a big boost to Busch Gardens, especially, although the Mouse will quickly figure out how to get all those St. Pete retirees, Tampa/Clearwater young people, and British tourists comfortably over to the Magic Kingdom. Perhaps a direct monorail from the train station.

Now, that's clearly a 'giveaway' to the theme parks, and if it was so important then those parks would finance it themselves...yadda, yadda,...

But does it benefit Florida? Yes!
Will it result in fuller hotels? Yes!
Does Florida receive a nice hotel tax? Yes!
Will restaurants see more business? Yes!
Will Florida receive more revenue because of it? Yes!

Does that mean these businesses will hire more people, who will in turn pay income tax, contributing to the system instead of draining it, and once again becoming consumers? Yes!

And what does this cost? A few billion? I say build it, get our feet wet, learn from it, get it cheaper and better, and utilize it to it's 'highest and best use' across the country.

Anything that will get me through Lakeland faster has got to be good.

Living just outside of Tampa, I disagree with you. I don't see people flying in to Tampa so that they can take the train to Orlando and with all the Amusement Parks in Orlando, I do not see people going to Disney and then taking the train to Tampa just so they can go to Busch Gardens. That simply isn't going to happen.

Driving through Lakeland has not been much of a problem since they widened I-4.

I do not expect the hotels to be any fuller than they are now. The restaurants won't be any fuller either. People are not going to come to Orlando simply because there is HSR between Tampa and Orlando.

What will it cost? A few billion dollars that the U.S. Government should not be throwing away at the moment.

Immie

Tampa gets a lot of British tourism. Always has. These folks drive on the other side, and are not comfortable driving in America, generally. Right now, they take tour buses to Disney.

They would be one type of customer.

The Tampa Bay and Orlando areas have a HUGE amount of younger people, under 35. A HS train would be a very attractive thing for this group to hit each other's cities for weekend fun. Just can't be too strict with the security: people want to bring their weed with them on these getaways.

That would be second type of customer.

Old People in St. Petersburg: again, tour buses if they want to go anywhere in Orlando. Maybe not a huge market for Disney, but it sure makes it easier when their children's families come to visit from Ohio and want to see the Mouse.

That would be a third type of customer.

This would be a big boost to the Tampa Port, also. More people from Orlando would take the HS train to get to cruise ships without having to pay a daily parking charge for their car, or rent a one-way from Orl-TB.

That would be a guaranteed fourth type of customer.

 

[Synthaholic]

I just checked the Tampa Port website. Cruise parking is $14 per day.

Yup - guaranteed.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Florida Loses $2.4 Billion For High-Speed Trains


This is what happens when you have a governor who runs the state like businessman and a very bad one at that, instead of like a politician. There would have been job creation in this but Repugs never promised job creation in their campaigns did they? Its clear they don't fucking care.

nah. he's running it like a politician. he's having wet dreams about being president

There's no way this guy will ever be President:

From the site:

"doesn’t this picture make you think of what the transitional period must have been like for Voldemort?"

who cares. The issue is high speed rail. Stay on point or shut it.
Typical lib obfuscation. Bullshit. You people are all bullshit.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I see the Orlando-Tampa line being all about tourism, and is a big boost to Busch Gardens, especially, although the Mouse will quickly figure out how to get all those St. Pete retirees, Tampa/Clearwater young people, and British tourists comfortably over to the Magic Kingdom. Perhaps a direct monorail from the train station.

Now, that's clearly a 'giveaway' to the theme parks, and if it was so important then those parks would finance it themselves...yadda, yadda,...

But does it benefit Florida? Yes!
Will it result in fuller hotels? Yes!
Does Florida receive a nice hotel tax? Yes!
Will restaurants see more business? Yes!
Will Florida receive more revenue because of it? Yes!

Does that mean these businesses will hire more people, who will in turn pay income tax, contributing to the system instead of draining it, and once again becoming consumers? Yes!

And what does this cost? A few billion? I say build it, get our feet wet, learn from it, get it cheaper and better, and utilize it to it's 'highest and best use' across the country.

Anything that will get me through Lakeland faster has got to be good.

So because of the fantasy train thousands more people will magically appear in Orlando and Tampa JUST because of the existence of the rail line. Oh please.
This is typical of those who are comfortable spending other people's money for their own reasons and schemes.
So , where are all these people who will fill the restaurants and hotels come from?
By claiming a government project will expand an economy plays right into the failed notion of Kensyian economic policy.
The following is guaranteed. People will NIT flock to ride the trains. There will be NO additional people making special trips from out of state to ride the trains to tourist attractions. The cost to build and maintain the trains will far exceed the original price tag. Far fewer people will ride the trains than the estimates the train supporters publish. The trains will LOSE money.
How is it I can state this? Because every single one of these type rail systems lose money, cost far more than originally published and far fewer users ride the trains than original estimates. Every single one.
Typical liberalism. Keep doing the same things over and again while expecting a different result.

 

[Immanuel]

I see the Orlando-Tampa line being all about tourism, and is a big boost to Busch Gardens, especially, although the Mouse will quickly figure out how to get all those St. Pete retirees, Tampa/Clearwater young people, and British tourists comfortably over to the Magic Kingdom. Perhaps a direct monorail from the train station.

Now, that's clearly a 'giveaway' to the theme parks, and if it was so important then those parks would finance it themselves...yadda, yadda,...

But does it benefit Florida? Yes!
Will it result in fuller hotels? Yes!
Does Florida receive a nice hotel tax? Yes!
Will restaurants see more business? Yes!
Will Florida receive more revenue because of it? Yes!

Does that mean these businesses will hire more people, who will in turn pay income tax, contributing to the system instead of draining it, and once again becoming consumers? Yes!

And what does this cost? A few billion? I say build it, get our feet wet, learn from it, get it cheaper and better, and utilize it to it's 'highest and best use' across the country.

Anything that will get me through Lakeland faster has got to be good.

Living just outside of Tampa, I disagree with you. I don't see people flying in to Tampa so that they can take the train to Orlando and with all the Amusement Parks in Orlando, I do not see people going to Disney and then taking the train to Tampa just so they can go to Busch Gardens. That simply isn't going to happen.

Driving through Lakeland has not been much of a problem since they widened I-4.

I do not expect the hotels to be any fuller than they are now. The restaurants won't be any fuller either. People are not going to come to Orlando simply because there is HSR between Tampa and Orlando.

What will it cost? A few billion dollars that the U.S. Government should not be throwing away at the moment.

Immie

Tampa gets a lot of British tourism. Always has. These folks drive on the other side, and are not comfortable driving in America, generally. Right now, they take tour buses to Disney.

They would be one type of customer.

The Tampa Bay and Orlando areas have a HUGE amount of younger people, under 35. A HS train would be a very attractive thing for this group to hit each other's cities for weekend fun. Just can't be too strict with the security: people want to bring their weed with them on these getaways.

That would be second type of customer.

Old People in St. Petersburg: again, tour buses if they want to go anywhere in Orlando. Maybe not a huge market for Disney, but it sure makes it easier when their children's families come to visit from Ohio and want to see the Mouse.

That would be a third type of customer.

This would be a big boost to the Tampa Port, also. More people from Orlando would take the HS train to get to cruise ships without having to pay a daily parking charge for their car, or rent a one-way from Orl-TB.

That would be a guaranteed fourth type of customer.

Customer #1: We don't get that many that I know of. If they want to go to Disney, they fly into Orlando. That won't change. Maybe they decide to go to the beach for the day? Daytona Beach is much closer to Orlando and more well known.

I certainly do not see these riders as filling one train a year combined.

Customer #2: Again, I don't see it filling a single train all year. Most people who are old enough to drive and live in Tampa have cars and are not going to give up that convenience in order to take a train that will cost more money for the ticket (before adding the cost of parking at the station) than it will to drive themselves. And during non-commute hours, when most of these people would be traveling, they are not going to save anytime because they are going to have to wait for the trains in the first place.

Customer #3: Don't tell all the grandma's that I said this, but people use Disney to get away from Grandma for the day. Again, if they are in town and it is not commute time, they are not going to take the train that will cost them more time and money than there own cars. From Tampa to Orlando is an hours drive. It simply will not be worth the time/money/inconvenience to take the train and give up the car and the liberty to do as you please when you get there.

Customer #4: Disney is a week's vacation by itself and that is not even seeing half of it. I don't see many people being able to take two to three week vacations at a time. Generally, they are lucky if they can pull together a week at a time. I love to cruise. I enjoy Disney, but it just doesn't work to do both on the same vacation. People taking a cruise out of Tampa, will fly to TIA, get on the shuttle and go to the port. They are not going to be able to fly to Orlando, enjoy Disney even just one park and then take the train to Tampa to take a cruise. I simply don't see it happening.

And, all that aside, that does not change the fact, that our government needs to cut spending. If HSR is such a boon-doggle, then some corporate conglomerate, i.e. Disney will pick up the tab. Why haven't they yet? Because they know it is a losing proposition for them... now, if they could only get Uncle Sam to foot the bill...

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I just checked the Tampa Port website. Cruise parking is $14 per day.

Yup - guaranteed.

Most people from out of town who go on cruises don't bring their cars. Many fly in, take the shuttle to the port, get on the ship and cruise away. No $14/day parking fee. Cab fair is something like $20 per cab, if I remember correctly from the time last year I picked my brother up at the port when he got home. Definitely not cheaper than HSR which would be per person from Orlando.

People who live close enough to drive are better off renting a car from Avis one way. Dropping their car off at the airport and taking the shuttle or a cab from the airport to the port and cruising away.

Immie

 

[Synthaholic]

nah. he's running it like a politician. he's having wet dreams about being president

There's no way this guy will ever be President:

From the site:

"doesn’t this picture make you think of what the transitional period must have been like for Voldemort?"

who cares. The issue is high speed rail. Stay on point or shut it.
Typical lib obfuscation. Bullshit. You people are all bullshit.

Oh, I see: jokes about Democratic ground-breakers like Nancy Pelosi or Helen Thomas or Hillary Clinton are fine, but don't make fun of the unindicted felon in Florida's governor's mansion.

Is that another of those 'conservative values' I hear so much about?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Oh, I see: jokes about Democratic ground-breakers like Nancy Pelosi or Helen Thomas or Hillary Clinton are fine, but don't make fun of the unindicted felon in Florida's governor's mansion.

Is that another of those 'conservative values' I hear so much about?

Pelosi is a ground breaker?......she stuck a flag in your ass i see.....the only thing ground breaking about her is she got many Democrats to move away from being associated with her.....

 

[Synthaholic]

Oh, I see: jokes about Democratic ground-breakers like Nancy Pelosi or Helen Thomas or Hillary Clinton are fine, but don't make fun of the unindicted felon in Florida's governor's mansion.

Is that another of those 'conservative values' I hear so much about?

Pelosi is a ground breaker?......she stuck a flag in your ass i see.....the only thing ground breaking about her is she got many Democrats to move away from being associated with her.....

Hell, yes! Are you that blinded by partisanship?

She's the first woman Speaker Of The House! That's ground-breaking.

Helen Thomas: succeeded during a time of overwhelming male dominance in her field. That's ground-breaking.

Hillary Clinton: Went from First Lady to Senator of New York to Secretary Of State. That's ground-breaking.

 

[thereisnospoon]

There's no way this guy will ever be President:

From the site:

"doesn’t this picture make you think of what the transitional period must have been like for Voldemort?"

who cares. The issue is high speed rail. Stay on point or shut it.
Typical lib obfuscation. Bullshit. You people are all bullshit.

Oh, I see: jokes about Democratic ground-breakers like Nancy Pelosi or Helen Thomas or Hillary Clinton are fine, but don't make fun of the unindicted felon in Florida's governor's mansion.

Is that another of those 'conservative values' I hear so much about?

That doesn't cut any ice with me,pal. Your mainstream media operatives have made the trashing of conservatives into their numberone pastime.
Groundbreakers? You must be fucking kidding me. The people you mentioned are just died in the wool liberals.
Stay on point. High speed rail...got it?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Hell, yes! Are you that blinded by partisanship?

She's the first woman Speaker Of The House! That's ground-breaking.

Helen Thomas: succeeded during a time of overwhelming male dominance in her field. That's ground-breaking.

Hillary Clinton: Went from First Lady to Senator of New York to Secretary Of State. That's ground-breaking.

no im blinded by the fact the Woman is a fucking asshole who had alienated many a Democrat and did not give a dam.....but she sure as hell did a good job with you i see.....and i did not say anything about the other two....they are genuine ground breakers....

 

[Coastal Nole.]

Hi ya'll! Im from Cocoa Beach FL and I work over seas on Ascension Island supporting our American space intrests.

Anyhow, im new here.


I grew up on the east coast of FL and I would have really liked to see a high speed railroad, we need it. The space program is in peril and this area of FL could have used this influx of federal income. Shame on the GOP, once again. ugh.

 

[hortysir]

Hi ya'll! Im from Cocoa Beach FL and I work over seas on Ascension Island supporting our American space intrests.

Anyhow, im new here.


I grew up on the east coast of FL and I would have really liked to see a high speed railroad, we need it. The space program is in peril and this area of FL could have used this influx of federal income. Shame on the GOP, once again. ugh.

First;

Second;
That's a very self-centered point of view.
Florida does NOT need the Fed, or the other 49 states, to throw billions of dollars down a rabbit hole for a select few individuals.

We all see how splendid of a job the Gov't has done with Amtrak.

 

[Immanuel]

Hi ya'll! Im from Cocoa Beach FL and I work over seas on Ascension Island supporting our American space intrests.

Anyhow, im new here.


I grew up on the east coast of FL and I would have really liked to see a high speed railroad, we need it. The space program is in peril and this area of FL could have used this influx of federal income. Shame on the GOP, once again. ugh.

HSR from Miami to Orlando to Tampa is a complete and utter waste of taxpayer dollars. The only value of HSR is if it can get people long distances in a short amount of time, saving them time and money. The drive from Tampa to Orlando is no more than 1.5 hours (2.5 if you are elderly and drive 45mph in the fast lane as some do) and from Tampa to Miami roughly 4 hours. There would be little time savings on this route and unless the government highly subsidized ticket prices, meaning taxpayers fund it, there would be no savings of money either when you factor in parking.

HSR would be a wonderful thing to have if it could get us across the country in 15 hours, but that will never happen.

This proposal is a waste of tax dollars.

Like I said yesterday in this thread, if it was worth the expense, you can bet a corporate conglomerate, such as Disney, would have already done this. They have not because they know it holds no value, but Disney would be thrilled to death if they could get the government to foot the bill.

Uncle Sam is in no shape to gamble with our tax dollars at the moment.

Immie

 

[Synthaholic]

who cares. The issue is high speed rail. Stay on point or shut it.
Typical lib obfuscation. Bullshit. You people are all bullshit.

Oh, I see: jokes about Democratic ground-breakers like Nancy Pelosi or Helen Thomas or Hillary Clinton are fine, but don't make fun of the unindicted felon in Florida's governor's mansion.

Is that another of those 'conservative values' I hear so much about?

That doesn't cut any ice with me,pal. Your mainstream media operatives have made the trashing of conservatives into their numberone pastime.
Groundbreakers? You must be fucking kidding me. The people you mentioned are just died in the wool liberals.
Stay on point. High speed rail...got it?

Un-indicted felons are died in the wool conservatives.

 

[Synthaholic]

Hell, yes! Are you that blinded by partisanship?

She's the first woman Speaker Of The House! That's ground-breaking.

Helen Thomas: succeeded during a time of overwhelming male dominance in her field. That's ground-breaking.

Hillary Clinton: Went from First Lady to Senator of New York to Secretary Of State. That's ground-breaking.

no im blinded by the fact the Woman is a fucking asshole who had alienated many a Democrat and did not give a dam.....but she sure as hell did a good job with you i see.....and i did not say anything about the other two....they are genuine ground breakers....

Speaker Pelosi didn't alienate anyone on the Left.

 

[Synthaholic]

Hi ya'll! Im from Cocoa Beach FL and I work over seas on Ascension Island supporting our American space intrests.

Anyhow, im new here.


I grew up on the east coast of FL and I would have really liked to see a high speed railroad, we need it. The space program is in peril and this area of FL could have used this influx of federal income. Shame on the GOP, once again. ugh.

Welcome!

I'm from Indialantic, and spent most of my teen years around Cocoa Beach. That whole area is one of the best kept secrets in Florida.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Smart move Florida !!!
You avoided a boondogle if it had worked out like our light rail in Houston.
Price per mile started at 46 million per MILE !!!!! Thats right 46 Mili per mile !!!!!
That was in 1999....two short years later it went to 70 million per mile !!!!!
At this point the tax payers went apeshit !!! But no need to worry said Metro, it will pay for itself.
Pay for itself?? Yeah right. As of now ridership pays for 1/3 of operating cost !!
And this going to pay for it how ?
We took the train to a Texans game (after driving 25 miles)just to see what all the hoopla was about. Well let me say this,the train was actually pretty cool. But as we took the trip to the stadiun I noticed people getting on and off the train without a ticket.
I'm thinking to myself....i'm a newb at this public transpo thing I must be missing something.
Come to find out later that the train works on the honor system !!!! WTF You run a train through the inner city and expect honor?
All brought to you by our liberal mayors.....Like I said smart move Florida !!!!