For Libertarian leaning folks

[Natural Citizen]

Oh, it's true. It's damned true. Heh heh heh...

 

[YoursTruly]

As for drug legalisation, I have previously spoken to that. During one of his presidential campaigns the great Ron Paul was challenged on this issue. His response was to ask the crowd how many of them would take up the needle and start shooting heroin if it were legalised. No hands went up. There are people who are predisposed to finding a way to destroy their bodies whether it be tobacco, drugs, sugar, food, alcohol, or other risky behaviors. It is the right of any self owning individual to do as they wish with their body and suffer the consequences of their actions.

We've seen some cities decriminalize hard drugs, and the results didn't reduce drugs or druggies. And other crimes associated with druggies, went up.

So legalizing drugs is retarded. If everyone was a "responsible user," that would be one thing. If they only did on weekends (their free time). Didn't go out into public (driving or jacking with innocent people) and always had their own money to buy it.

But that's simply not the case. Druggies create a lot of victims. And cannot be responsible enough to give them that much freedom.
It's like anything. People can't be trusted to carry auto insurance, for example. So the government has to force it.

 

[YoursTruly]

And THIS is why libertarians get 2% of the vote. And don't forget open borders, legalized prostitution, and drugs

I see your point. But it was just one facebook page. I wasn't addressing the Mises Caucus themselves or even 99% of the LP. That's not to say the LP isn't filled with a ton of left leaning folks.
Who ever this Mises Caucus is, they're not doing a very good job of messaging a return to the 2008-2012 libertarian message of sticking up for the working man.

 

[Oddball]

What can I say? The GOP has been through the same thing. Look how left they've become.

They've been drifting left since at least Wilson.

Big of an '80s democrat goof that Trump is, he's shown that the party is ripe for a hostile takeover...And populists are far easier to drag back to the right, than the neocon scum currently infesting the party.

 

[Oddball]

We've seen some cities decriminalize hard drugs, and the results didn't reduce drugs or druggies. And other crimes associated with druggies, went up.

True as all that is, the synthetic pot and TCH markets evaporated overnight, with the legalization of the real thing....That's definitely a good thing.

So legalizing drugs is retarded. If everyone was a "responsible user," that would be one thing. If they only did on weekends (their free time). Didn't go out into public (driving or jacking with innocent people) and always had their own money to buy it.

Most were (relatively) responsible users before gubmint got in and created the drug cartels.

But that's simply not the case. Druggies create a lot of victims. And cannot be responsible enough to give them that much freedom.
It's like anything. People can't be trusted to carry auto insurance, for example. So the government has to force it.

ORLY?...If forced insurance works so well, why is everyone required to carry coverage for the uninsured?

 

[dblack]

They've been drifting left since at least Wilson.

Big of an '80s democrat goof that Trump is, he's shown that the party is ripe for a hostile takeover...And populists are far easier to drag back to the right, than the neocon scum currently infesting the party.

Populists are, by nature, socialists. At the very least they are as stupid as socialists. They're no better than the neo-cons.

 

[Oddball]

Populists are, by nature, socialists. At the very least they are as stupid as socialists. They're no better than the neo-cons.

Leave it to you to ignore the substance in favor of the form.

Points being that the GOP is ripe for a takeover, and that populists are open-minded enough to be swayed to the right.

Maye you should just go back to sniveling about how everything sucks, and how (without any cogent details) Prank Choice Voting is our only salvation.

 

[YoursTruly]

True as all that is,

Let's not forget the fact that it IS true. That druggies create victims. They adversely affect the lives of decent law abiding citizens. And decriminalizing hard drugs helped to create more druggies who commit more crimes.

the synthetic pot and TCH markets evaporated overnight, with the legalization of the real thing....That's definitely a good thing.

Not good enough to over shadow the druggies and the crimes they commit on innocent people.
The "innocent people" are the victims here. And it should be a top priority to protect and defend them.
Not to mention the fact that legalizing pot keeps cops from being able to search a person car because of the smell of pot. Allowing those druggies to get away without being searched.

There was a boy in Alabama (I think) that because of the smell of pot coming from the car, lead the officers to search his car. In the truck they found a dead body.
Hundreds of thousands of other times, the smell of pot allowed officers to search finding other dead bodies, huge amounts of drugs, human traffickers. And all sort of horrific things.

Most were (relatively) responsible users before gubmint got in and created the drug cartels.

ORLY?...If forced insurance works so well, why is everyone required to carry coverage for the uninsured?

The government didn't create druggies and criminals. Morons did that to themselves.
BTW, government isn't responsible for a lot of the bad things that go on. 90% of that are peoples irresponsible lifestyles.
When it comes to the justice system, IMO that it's not tough enough for some. And too tough for others.
There's no rehabilitation for those who want to be better people. And it's too lax on those who don't want to get better. Better as in "Fit for society."

 

[Oddball]

Let's not forget the fact that it IS true. That druggies create victims. They adversely affect the lives of decent law abiding citizens. And decriminalizing hard drugs helped to create more druggies who commit more crimes.




Not good enough to over shadow the druggies and the crimes they commit on innocent people.
The "innocent people" are the victims here. And it should be a top priority to protect and defend them.
Not to mention the fact that legalizing pot keeps cops from being able to search a person car because of the smell of pot. Allowing those druggies to get away without being searched.

There was a boy in Alabama (I think) that because of the smell of pot coming from the car, lead the officers to search his car. In the truck they found a dead body.
Hundreds of thousands of other times, the smell of pot allowed officers to search finding other dead bodies, huge amounts of drugs, human traffickers. And all sort of horrific things.



The government didn't create druggies and criminals. Morons did that to themselves.
BTW, government isn't responsible for a lot of the bad things that go on. 90% of that are peoples irresponsible lifestyles.
When it comes to the justice system, IMO that it's not tough enough for some. And too tough for others.
There's no rehabilitation for those who want to be better people. And it's too lax on those who don't want to get better. Better as in "Fit for society."

Gubmint created the drug cartels with their loony "war on (some) drugs"....Meanwhile, scores of millions are strung out on psychotropics and scads of other synthetic shit peddled by the legal BigPharm.

Like everything else The State does, the "war on (some) drugs" is a big fucking protection racket, that does at least as much social harm as it allegedly prevents.

 

[YoursTruly]

Gubmint created the drug cartels with their loony "war on (some) drugs"....Meanwhile, scores of millions are strung out on psychotropics and scads of other synthetic shit peddled by the legal BigPharm.

Like everything else The State does, the "war on (some) drugs" is a big fucking protection racket, that does at least as much social harm as it allegedly prevents.

Customers and a market created the cartels.

Big pharma may or may not be worse (they probably are) But that's a separate issue. That's like saying Saturn and Mars are the same because they're both planets.

For what ever reason, the government seems to coddle drug dealers and users. And here comes the left leaning folks trying to push "it's an addiction." Well whoopti friggin do. So they're addicted to meth and going to blame their crime spree on some addiction. They're still not fit for society.

Druggies aren't going to stop until they don't have access to them or they decide on their own to quit. It's a damn shame us tax payers have to foot the bill for all these druggies, their crimes, their rehabilitation, their incarceration's and the things we have to buy ourselves just to protect ourselves and our property.

 

[Oddball]

Customers and a market created the cartels.

Big pharma may or may not be worse (they probably are) But that's a separate issue. That's like saying Saturn and Mars are the same because they're both planets.

For what ever reason, the government seems to coddle drug dealers and users. And here comes the left leaning folks trying to push "it's an addiction." Well whoopti friggin do. So they're addicted to meth and going to blame their crime spree on some addiction. They're still not fit for society.

Druggies aren't going to stop until they don't have access to them or they decide on their own to quit. It's a damn shame us tax payers have to foot the bill for all these druggies, their crimes, their rehabilitation, their incarceration's and the things we have to buy ourselves just to protect ourselves and our property.

Thanks for sharing, Carrie Nation.

 

[YoursTruly]

Thanks for sharing, Carrie Nation.

Wait, what? That's it? Nothing about the victims of these druggies? Nothing about any of the points I made? You're just going to skip over all those points as if none of them were spot on? Nothing about the trillion $$$ we and the government have to spend to either protect ourselves from or incarcerate them? From the locks on our doors, to the local, county, state and federal justice system? All the jails, prisons, cop cars, taser, guns and on and on and on.

We have to pay for all that and put up with all that just for criminals. Mostly druggy ones who ain't got sense enough to get away from that crap.
FFS, most of us are against a national healthcare system because it's not right that everyone has to pay for someone else's healthcare. But god damn, dude. We have to pay for damn criminals, the justice system and the criminals healthcare.

 

[YoursTruly]

What happens if the LP had their way and legalized or decriminalized drugs.

 

[Redheaded Stranger]

I'm a socialist libertarian. I have no problems with "left" leaning libertarians.

Look, elements of socialism will exist, whether you like it or not. We've always had a balance of socialism and capitalism.

Frankly, I am annoyed that so many "fiscal conservatives" waste their time attacking things like drag queen story hour. It's not my thing, but attacking is wasted energy. Don't like it? don't go to the library. Live and let live.

 

[Curried Goats]

Wait, what? That's it? Nothing about the victims of these druggies? Nothing about any of the points I made? You're just going to skip over all those points as if none of them were spot on? Nothing about the trillion $$$ we and the government have to spend to either protect ourselves from or incarcerate them? From the locks on our doors, to the local, county, state and federal justice system? All the jails, prisons, cop cars, taser, guns and on and on and on.

We have to pay for all that and put up with all that just for criminals. Mostly druggy ones who ain't got sense enough to get away from that crap.
FFS, most of us are against a national healthcare system because it's not right that everyone has to pay for someone else's healthcare. But god damn, dude. We have to pay for damn criminals, the justice system and the criminals healthcare.

Is the purpose of a libertarian government to end violence and theft at any means or to ensure liberty and freedom and especially to ensure that legal force isn't used to usurp individual freedom?

If, as Bastiat says, the Law is the collective organization of the individual right to self defense then the only question is whether you would have a right to do as an individual what you propose to do by law. So... as an individual, do you have the right to use force to stop other people from putting substances in their own bodies?

 

[EMH]

Wasn’t Gary Johnson the one who couldn’t point out a country on a map?

He was too old his second run.

Sound familiar??

Trump is still claiming he "did a FANTASTIC JOB with Covid" and that the Murderous FRAUD "vax" saved lives...

Trump is TOO OLD and his EGO gets in the way of realizing WHAT A DISASTER HE WAS SELLING OUT AMERICA REGARDING COVID...

and Trump and the "MAGA media" are still NOT CLOSE TO THE TRUTH ABOUT COVID...

 

[EMH]

Those two horrid GOP retreads are high on the list among the reasons why I left the party....They made it possible for the DUDE WEED! and homo factions to run roughshod over the party.

Disagree.

Both were authentic fiscal conservatives with libertarian leanings.

They were not fans of W.

And that's pretty much the definition of "RINO" today, a W apologist....

 

[JWBooth]

I'm a socialist libertarian. I have no problems with "left" leaning libertarians.

Look, elements of socialism will exist, whether you like it or not. We've always had a balance of socialism and capitalism.

Frankly, I am annoyed that so many "fiscal conservatives" waste their time attacking things like drag queen story hour. It's not my thing, but attacking is wasted energy. Don't like it? don't go to the library. Live and let live.

Socialist libertarIan?
Rothbard spins in his grave.

 

[dblack]

Socialist libertarIan?
Rothbard spins in his grave.

It's a European thing. Has approximately nothing to do with US libertarianism.

 

[JWBooth]

That one basic tenent, the underpinning from which all else is built. Do not initiate force and keep your hands to yourself.
You own yourself, not the state, not some collective society, you.