Forget Econ Stats, Do Americans Feel Economic Exhuberance or Malaise?

[JakeStarkey]

Listening is bleating ad homs also.

You guys have so lost your influence that you are only an occasional bump on the road.

 

[Freewill]

All that is needed is for Obama to give his version of the Carter Malaise speech.

 

[Listening]

Listening is bleating ad homs also.

You guys have so lost your influence that you are only an occasional bump on the road.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah.......

If you don't stop, you'll go blind.

 

[EconChick]

Your ad homs merely gives your argument has less weight.

To the OP, the American consumer is not in a spirit of economic malaise at all.

You wouldn't know an argument if it bit you in your fat ass.

That people think things are getting better does not mean people think things are good.

You don't understand the difference.

Have your mother change your diaper and run along.

You are fucking DESPERATE to try and make your case. The economy is improving. That is ALL anyone has said. And it is. More people working is a good thing. The fact that it doesn't serve the Republican purpose of trying to convince everyone how bad it is, is besides the point.

Sure, the economy is improving.

You can also say a person making a salary of $15,000 getting a 10 cents an hour raise is improving.

Yet in the big scheme of things we both know that person is pretty bad off.

So let's reword it.....do you think the American people think Obama's economic policies have been effective enough?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You wouldn't know an argument if it bit you in your fat ass.

That people think things are getting better does not mean people think things are good.

You don't understand the difference.

Have your mother change your diaper and run along.

You are fucking DESPERATE to try and make your case. The economy is improving. That is ALL anyone has said. And it is. More people working is a good thing. The fact that it doesn't serve the Republican purpose of trying to convince everyone how bad it is, is besides the point.

Sure, the economy is improving.

You can also say a person making a salary of $15,000 getting a 10 cents an hour raise is improving.

Yet in the big scheme of things we both know that person is pretty bad off.

So let's reword it.....do you think the American people think Obama's economic policies have been effective enough?

You're asking the wrong questions.

Your questions should be:

What was the extent of the adverse effect republican foot-dragging had on the economic recovery?

Given the fact of republican foot-dragging, can an accurate assessment be made of the Administration's economic policies?

Do conservatives understand that the Administration's economic policies can only be comprehensively implemented with the co-operation of Congress, something Congressional republicans have refused to do?

And can there be an accurate, objective, non-partisan assessment of the president's economic policies well before the end of his time in office.

The last question is rhetorical, as of course its answer is 'no.'

 

[EconChick]

You are fucking DESPERATE to try and make your case. The economy is improving. That is ALL anyone has said. And it is. More people working is a good thing. The fact that it doesn't serve the Republican purpose of trying to convince everyone how bad it is, is besides the point.

Sure, the economy is improving.

You can also say a person making a salary of $15,000 getting a 10 cents an hour raise is improving.

Yet in the big scheme of things we both know that person is pretty bad off.

So let's reword it.....do you think the American people think Obama's economic policies have been effective enough?

You're asking the wrong questions.

Your questions should be:

What was the extent of the adverse effect republican foot-dragging had on the economic recovery?

Given the fact of republican foot-dragging, can an accurate assessment be made of the Administration's economic policies?

Do conservatives understand that the Administration's economic policies can only be comprehensively implemented with the co-operation of Congress, something Congressional republicans have refused to do?

And can there be an accurate, objective, non-partisan assessment of the president's economic policies well before the end of his time in office.

The last question is rhetorical, as of course its answer is 'no.'

But that's no different for any other president. When Bush took the WH, Clinton's economy had hit the trough that Bush had to reverse. Then Bush got hit with the impact of 9/11 on the economy. I never see a liberal explain how that unfairly weighed on Bush's numbers. And anyone who says it was a 1% quarter impact is way off.

There were people who were worried that because it hit when we were so heavily leveraged during the trough of a business cycle that it almost collapsed us.

No one makes excuses for what Bush had to do to recover not only economically but to combat an enemy. That's never discussed.

The thing is.....yes, we were pulling out of a crisis and a recession when Obama took the reins...but on the other hand, there were signs we were starting to recover from the recession only a few months into O's tenure.

The other problem is that Reagan inherited the nastiest economy ever and he turned it around to firing on all cylinders.

 

[kaz]

Bottom Line: No one feels this economy is going gang busters. Intuitively, Americans know something's wrong.

We econ geeks can spend hundreds of hours on this board throwing around economic statistics, but my guess is the average American/average reader doesn't read threads in the Economy section. It's too wonky.

Oldfart commented that my posts don't sound the way most macroeconomists talk. I can't stand how most macroeconomists talk. Most don't speak in a way that normal Americans can understand. They speak to out-geek the next geek. Just like every econ professor I ever had.

I'd like this to be a thread meant for "normal" Americans - those living out on main street, not Wall Street - who just want to know why they're not feeling optimistic about their economic situations and what can be done about it.

This thread is meant to involve people who want more "intuitive" answers about the economy.

Let's see if we can manage to do that.

As a business owner, my observation is that for a long time people would just not spend anything. Now they will spend, but they continue to limit spending and not trust the economy. I am the same way. I spend say for some marketing efforts, but I was looking at upgrading to newer, better facilities. After looking at quite a few places and finding several I like with landlords who wanted to negotiate, I decided that for now being month to month where we are is not worth committing to a full lease until I feel more comfortable we are clear of the recession.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You wouldn't know an argument if it bit you in your fat ass.

That people think things are getting better does not mean people think things are good.

You don't understand the difference.

Have your mother change your diaper and run along.

You are fucking DESPERATE to try and make your case. The economy is improving. That is ALL anyone has said. And it is. More people working is a good thing. The fact that it doesn't serve the Republican purpose of trying to convince everyone how bad it is, is besides the point.

Sure, the economy is improving.

You can also say a person making a salary of $15,000 getting a 10 cents an hour raise is improving.

Yet in the big scheme of things we both know that person is pretty bad off.

So let's reword it.....do you think the American people think Obama's economic policies have been effective enough?

OK, we reword it because the OP has failed: thank you for that admission.

Since the population's confidence is at a seven year high, sure.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bottom Line: No one feels this economy is going gang busters. Intuitively, Americans know something's wrong.

We econ geeks can spend hundreds of hours on this board throwing around economic statistics, but my guess is the average American/average reader doesn't read threads in the Economy section. It's too wonky.

Oldfart commented that my posts don't sound the way most macroeconomists talk. I can't stand how most macroeconomists talk. Most don't speak in a way that normal Americans can understand. They speak to out-geek the next geek. Just like every econ professor I ever had.

I'd like this to be a thread meant for "normal" Americans - those living out on main street, not Wall Street - who just want to know why they're not feeling optimistic about their economic situations and what can be done about it.

This thread is meant to involve people who want more "intuitive" answers about the economy.

Let's see if we can manage to do that.

As a business owner, my observation is that for a long time people would just not spend anything. Now they will spend, but they continue to limit spending and not trust the economy. I am the same way. I spend say for some marketing efforts, but I was looking at upgrading to newer, better facilities. After looking at quite a few places and finding several I like with landlords who wanted to negotiate, I decided that for now being month to month where we are is not worth committing to a full lease until I feel more comfortable we are clear of the recession.

Until (1) the Pubs and the Dems jointly pass a jobs and business package, and (2) the banks release the trillions of dollars instead of sitting on them, we will continue as we have economically.

 

[kaz]

You're asking the wrong questions.

Your questions should be:

What was the extent of the adverse effect republican foot-dragging had on the economic recovery?

Given the fact of republican foot-dragging, can an accurate assessment be made of the Administration's economic policies?

Do conservatives understand that the Administration's economic policies can only be comprehensively implemented with the co-operation of Congress, something Congressional republicans have refused to do?

And can there be an accurate, objective, non-partisan assessment of the president's economic policies well before the end of his time in office.

The last question is rhetorical, as of course its answer is 'no.'

You fundamentally don't understand economics. Government consumes, it does not produce. Government creates no economic value. Legitimate functions of government, such as the military, are like buying insurance. Buying insurance does not make you richer, it makes you poorer. But it protects what you have.

Nothing Obama proposed created value, he simply confiscated money from the economy and proposed spending it. Everything he wanted to spend was taken out of the economy. It's like trying to fill a pool which is half full with a bucket using the water in the pool. You take a bucket of water out of the pool (taxes) then throw it back in (government spending) and wonder why the water level in the pool isn't going up. And of course since government wastes so much money, it's actually worse in that you take a bucket of water out of the pool, dump a bunch of it on the ground and throw the rest back in.

Republican foot dragging helped the economy, it didn't hurt it, for that reason. It stopped Obama from taking buckets of water, dumping some some the ground, and throwing the rest back in. You may now proceed with demonstrating you didn't understand this.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone who says government does not create economic value, does not understand economics or business at all.

Let's move on.

 

[kaz]

Bottom Line: No one feels this economy is going gang busters. Intuitively, Americans know something's wrong.

We econ geeks can spend hundreds of hours on this board throwing around economic statistics, but my guess is the average American/average reader doesn't read threads in the Economy section. It's too wonky.

Oldfart commented that my posts don't sound the way most macroeconomists talk. I can't stand how most macroeconomists talk. Most don't speak in a way that normal Americans can understand. They speak to out-geek the next geek. Just like every econ professor I ever had.

I'd like this to be a thread meant for "normal" Americans - those living out on main street, not Wall Street - who just want to know why they're not feeling optimistic about their economic situations and what can be done about it.

This thread is meant to involve people who want more "intuitive" answers about the economy.

Let's see if we can manage to do that.

As a business owner, my observation is that for a long time people would just not spend anything. Now they will spend, but they continue to limit spending and not trust the economy. I am the same way. I spend say for some marketing efforts, but I was looking at upgrading to newer, better facilities. After looking at quite a few places and finding several I like with landlords who wanted to negotiate, I decided that for now being month to month where we are is not worth committing to a full lease until I feel more comfortable we are clear of the recession.

Until (1) the Pubs and the Dems jointly pass a jobs and business package, and (2) the banks release the trillions of dollars instead of sitting on them, we will continue as we have economically.

The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations.

What Democrats call jobs bills destroy jobs.

 

[kaz]

Anyone who says government does not create economic value, does not understand economics or business at all.

Let's move on.

I note you provide no example of what you are talking about, because of course you don't know what you are talking about. Dude, I thought your family had a business, did you not learn anything?

Companies take raw materials, hire employees, create products and services and sell them at a profit. While profit is of course evil, it is never the less what grows our economy. Government hiring people to sit in an office who don't create anything does not grow the economy. And worse, they take the money from the companies who do.

You need to take an econ 101 course Jake, it would change your world.

 

[kaz]

Listening is bleating ad homs also.

You guys have so lost your influence that you are only an occasional bump on the road.

Yes, I agree with this. No doubt, the parasites are winning and decisively so. I see no reason that means I need to be silent about it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone who says government does not create economic value, does not understand economics or business at all.

Let's move on.

I note you provide no example of what you are talking about, because of course you don't know what you are talking about. Dude, I thought your family had a business, did you not learn anything?

Companies take raw materials, hire employees, create products and services and sell them at a profit. While profit is of course evil, it is never the less what grows our economy. Government hiring people to sit in an office who don't create anything does not grow the economy. And worse, they take the money from the companies who do.

You need to take an econ 101 course Jake, it would change your world.

You need to keep your mouth shut, because every time you run it, you regret it.

One example of economic value created by government is the salaries paid to the military who spend it in the civilian economy, helping business and jobs and the economy.

We can go on for a long time making your statement look like what it is, uneducated.

 

[kaz]

Anyone who says government does not create economic value, does not understand economics or business at all.

Let's move on.

I note you provide no example of what you are talking about, because of course you don't know what you are talking about. Dude, I thought your family had a business, did you not learn anything?

Companies take raw materials, hire employees, create products and services and sell them at a profit. While profit is of course evil, it is never the less what grows our economy. Government hiring people to sit in an office who don't create anything does not grow the economy. And worse, they take the money from the companies who do.

You need to take an econ 101 course Jake, it would change your world.

You need to keep your mouth shut, because every time you run it, you regret it.

One example of economic value created by government is the salaries paid to the military who spend it in the civilian economy, helping business and jobs and the economy.

We can go on for a long time making your statement look like what it is, uneducated.

LOL, the field of economics is uneduated but you are not. Again dude, you would have learned in econ 101 why what you just argued is wrong. I addressed that specific point, but I have a question for you which if you grasp will cure your ignorance on the military adding economic value. I addressed that specific thing in Post 490 on the last page. You're not reading the conversation you are participating in, LOL.

Where does the salary they are paid ... come from? Where does government get the money?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kaz, you said the government was not an economic generator.

I gave you one clear irrefutable example, and all you can do is tap dance instead of womaning up and admit you are wrong.

No one with any sense uses libertarian definitions.

 

[kaz]

Kaz, you said the government was not an economic generator.

I gave you one clear irrefutable example, and all you can do is tap dance instead of womaning up and admit you are wrong.

No one with any sense uses libertarian definitions.

Not only did you not read post 490 the first time, you didn't read it the second either.

No, soldiers do not "create economic value." They are insurance, they protect value. The answer to the question you ignored is that the money they are paid comes out of the economy. Their salary does not create economic value. Sorry Jake. Seriously, econ 101, take it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kaz, no one is going to accept libertarian voo doo philosophy.

Yes, the government is an economic generator as the example clearly demonstrates.

A second would be construction generators as private business meets government building needs.

 

[Dad2three]

Anyone who says government does not create economic value, does not understand economics or business at all.

Let's move on.

I note you provide no example of what you are talking about, because of course you don't know what you are talking about. Dude, I thought your family had a business, did you not learn anything?

Companies take raw materials, hire employees, create products and services and sell them at a profit. While profit is of course evil, it is never the less what grows our economy. Government hiring people to sit in an office who don't create anything does not grow the economy. And worse, they take the money from the companies who do.

You need to take an econ 101 course Jake, it would change your world.

“There are some very important problems that don’t get worked on naturally. That is the market does not drive the scientists, the communicators, the thinkers, the government to do the right things. And only by paying attention to these things, and having brilliant people who care and draw other people in, can we make as much progress as we need to.” Bill Gates

IF your premise was correct, Somalia and most of Latin America would be thriving and prosperous?