Forget Econ Stats, Do Americans Feel Economic Exhuberance or Malaise?

[Dad2three]

As a business owner, my observation is that for a long time people would just not spend anything. Now they will spend, but they continue to limit spending and not trust the economy. I am the same way. I spend say for some marketing efforts, but I was looking at upgrading to newer, better facilities. After looking at quite a few places and finding several I like with landlords who wanted to negotiate, I decided that for now being month to month where we are is not worth committing to a full lease until I feel more comfortable we are clear of the recession.

Until (1) the Pubs and the Dems jointly pass a jobs and business package, and (2) the banks release the trillions of dollars instead of sitting on them, we will continue as we have economically.

The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations.

What Democrats call jobs bills destroy jobs.

"The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations."

lol

Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory


The conclusion?

Lowering the tax rates on the wealthy and top earners in America do not appear to have any impact on the nation’s economic growth.


Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory-GOP Suppresses Study - Forbes


WEIRD WHY DIDN'T 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES CREATE A BOOMING US ECONOMY? lol

 

[kaz]

IF your premise was correct, Somalia and most of Latin America would be thriving and prosperous?

As for Somalia, they are anarchist, not libertarian. No idea what "most of Latin America" means as they are not libertarian. You don't know what you are talking about, then again you never do.

I'm curious as you believe you are the intelligent party why none of you can argue my actual positions. I'm either a Republican or an anarchist. No, I'm neither. How are you intelligent if you can't grasp and address my actual views exactly?

Republicans clearly are actually smarter than you. They do generally grasp them. Liberals? Never. You are not the intelligent party, you are the idiot party.

 

[kaz]

Until (1) the Pubs and the Dems jointly pass a jobs and business package, and (2) the banks release the trillions of dollars instead of sitting on them, we will continue as we have economically.

The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations.

What Democrats call jobs bills destroy jobs.

"The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations."

lol

Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory


The conclusion?

Lowering the tax rates on the wealthy and top earners in America do not appear to have any impact on the nation’s economic growth.


Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory-GOP Suppresses Study - Forbes


WEIRD WHY DIDN'T 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES CREATE A BOOMING US ECONOMY? lol

W was a tax and spend liberal. Again with the libertarians are Republicans argument. How droll.

 

[kaz]

Kaz, no one is going to accept libertarian voo doo philosophy.

Yes, the government is an economic generator as the example clearly demonstrates.

A second would be construction generators as private business meets government building needs.

People making their own decisions over their own lives and taking personal accountability for the results of their own choices is "voo doo." Got it. Government making our choices makes so much more sense. They do such a good job of it.

 

[Dad2three]

Sure, the economy is improving.

You can also say a person making a salary of $15,000 getting a 10 cents an hour raise is improving.

Yet in the big scheme of things we both know that person is pretty bad off.

So let's reword it.....do you think the American people think Obama's economic policies have been effective enough?

You're asking the wrong questions.

Your questions should be:

What was the extent of the adverse effect republican foot-dragging had on the economic recovery?

Given the fact of republican foot-dragging, can an accurate assessment be made of the Administration's economic policies?

Do conservatives understand that the Administration's economic policies can only be comprehensively implemented with the co-operation of Congress, something Congressional republicans have refused to do?

And can there be an accurate, objective, non-partisan assessment of the president's economic policies well before the end of his time in office.

The last question is rhetorical, as of course its answer is 'no.'

But that's no different for any other president. When Bush took the WH, Clinton's economy had hit the trough that Bush had to reverse. Then Bush got hit with the impact of 9/11 on the economy. I never see a liberal explain how that unfairly weighed on Bush's numbers. And anyone who says it was a 1% quarter impact is way off.

There were people who were worried that because it hit when we were so heavily leveraged during the trough of a business cycle that it almost collapsed us.

No one makes excuses for what Bush had to do to recover not only economically but to combat an enemy. That's never discussed.

The thing is.....yes, we were pulling out of a crisis and a recession when Obama took the reins...but on the other hand, there were signs we were starting to recover from the recession only a few months into O's tenure.

The other problem is that Reagan inherited the nastiest economy ever and he turned it around to firing on all cylinders.

DISCUSS WHAT?

David Stockman, Ex-Reagan Budget Director: George W. Bush's Policies Bankrupt The Country


“(Reagan’s deficit policies) allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy,” Stockman wrote.

David Stockman, Ex-Reagan Budget Director: George W. Bush's Policies Bankrupt The Country


The Economists' statement opposing the Bush tax cuts was a statement signed by roughly 450 economists, including ten of the twenty-four American Nobel Prize laureates alive at the time, in February 2003 who urged the U.S. President George W. Bush not to enact the 2003 tax cuts; seeking and sought to gather public support for the position. The statement was printed as a full-page ad in The New York Times and released to the public through the Economic Policy Institute. According to the statement, the 450 plus economists who signed the statement believe that the 2003 Bush tax cuts will increase inequality and the budget deficit, decreasing the ability of the U.S. government to fund essential services, while failing to produce economic growth.


In rebuttal, 250 plus economists who supported the tax plan wrote that the new plan would "create more employment, economic growth, and opportunities for all Americans."

WHICH SIDE WAS CORRECT?

Economists' statement opposing the Bush tax cuts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



" Reagan inherited the nastiest economy ever and he turned it around to firing on all cylinders."

LOL

Reagan created the recession began under HIM after his disastrous tax cuts.


Supply Side Economics


supply side did not work under reagan nor bush[/B].the worse recession happened under REAGAN not carter.sure he picked up the economy after he trashed it.


01/1981 - Unemployment rate 7.5% …. Reagan sworn in.
02/1981 - 7.4%
03/1981 - 7.4%
04/1981 - 7.2%
05/1981 - 7.5%
06/1981 - 7.5%
07/1981 - 7.2%
08/1981 - 7.4% * Reagan CUTS taxes for top 1% and says unemployment will DROP to 6.9%.
09/1981 - 7.6%
10/1981 - 7.9%
11/1981 - 8.3%
12/1981 - 8.5%

01/1982 - 8.6%
02/1982 - 8.9%
03/1982 - 9.0%
04/1982 - 9.3%
05/1982 - 9.4%
06/1982 - 9.6%
07/1982 - 9.8%
08/1982 - 9.8%
09/1982 - 10.1%
10/1982 - 10.4%
11/1982 - 10.8% * Unemployment HITS a post WW2 RECORD of 10.8%.
12/1982 - 10.8%

01/1983 - 10.4%
02/1983 - 10.4%
03/1983 - 10.3%
04/1983 - 10.3%
05/1983 - 10.1%
06/1983 - 10.1%
07/1983 - 9.4%
06/1983 - 9.5%
07/1983 - 9.4%
08/1983 - 9.5%
09/1983 - 9.2%
10/1983 - 8.8%
11/1983 - 8.5%
12/1983 - 8.3%

01/1984 - 8.0%
02/1984 - 7.8%


It took Reagan 28 MONTHS to get unemployment rate back down below 8 percent.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data


AGAIN, CARTER HAD 9+ MILLION PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS GROWTH IN 4 YEARS VERSUS 14 MILLION FOR REAGAN'S 8

 

[Dad2three]

Kaz, no one is going to accept libertarian voo doo philosophy.

Yes, the government is an economic generator as the example clearly demonstrates.

A second would be construction generators as private business meets government building needs.

People making their own decisions over their own lives and taking personal accountability for the results of their own choices is "voo doo." Got it. Government making our choices makes so much more sense. They do such a good job of it.

Conservatives simplistic minds

If you are rich it is because of your merits. If you are poor its because of your faults.


The way things worked before the US essentially invented the middle class by implementing the progressive tax structure and the New Deal in the wake of the Great Depression, was a series of booms & busts. These sucked for the ordinary people, but were a fantastic way for the obscenely wealthy to garner more wealth.

Here's how it worked:

Choose a market segment and start investing heavily.

Create a bunch of noise around how that segment is growing.

Create investment tools that even the little guy can buy.

Whip the public into a buying frenzy. No one wants to be left behind in a market that has no place to go but "up."

When the bubble inflates to a point of your choosing, it's time to start the next bubble, strip your profits out via a massive sell off.

This happens to crash the market, reaming the little investors - but you don't care, because you just took all the money they'd invested.

Sock a bunch of your ill-gotten gains into an inheritance trust to be passed on to your children, then start investing the rest in another market segment. Pump that bubble, pop it, move on to the next.

To these avaricious slime-balls, "the economy" is a toy, not something on which they rely for survival. We're the only ones who get hurt when they crush it.

 

[Dad2three]

The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations.

What Democrats call jobs bills destroy jobs.

"The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations."

lol

Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory


The conclusion?

Lowering the tax rates on the wealthy and top earners in America do not appear to have any impact on the nation’s economic growth.


Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory-GOP Suppresses Study - Forbes


WEIRD WHY DIDN'T 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES CREATE A BOOMING US ECONOMY? lol

W was a tax and spend liberal. Again with the libertarians are Republicans argument. How droll.

Weird you 'believe in' myths and fairy tales yet can't point to ONE successful use of libertarian economic policy EVER that benefited more than the top 1%..

 

[Dad2three]

IF your premise was correct, Somalia and most of Latin America would be thriving and prosperous?

As for Somalia, they are anarchist, not libertarian. No idea what "most of Latin America" means as they are not libertarian. You don't know what you are talking about, then again you never do.

I'm curious as you believe you are the intelligent party why none of you can argue my actual positions. I'm either a Republican or an anarchist. No, I'm neither. How are you intelligent if you can't grasp and address my actual views exactly?

Republicans clearly are actually smarter than you. They do generally grasp them. Liberals? Never. You are not the intelligent party, you are the idiot party.

Simple. ONE nation to EVER use your libertarian crap?

 

[Dad2three]

The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations.

What Democrats call jobs bills destroy jobs.

"The only jobs bill that would actually work would be to cut taxes on rich bastards who fund businesses, cut business taxes and simplify regulations."

lol

Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory


The conclusion?

Lowering the tax rates on the wealthy and top earners in America do not appear to have any impact on the nation’s economic growth.


Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory-GOP Suppresses Study - Forbes


WEIRD WHY DIDN'T 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES CREATE A BOOMING US ECONOMY? lol

W was a tax and spend liberal. Again with the libertarians are Republicans argument. How droll.

"W was a tax and spend liberal"

You meant GUT revenues and spend like Reagan did?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Once again, this needs to be answered: "Weird you 'believe in' myths and fairy tales yet can't point to ONE successful use of libertarian economic policy EVER that benefited more than the top 1%."

Come on, Kaz: step up. Dad here and I in the other thread have shown the hollowness of glibertarianism.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Once again, this needs to be answered: "Weird you 'believe in' myths and fairy tales yet can't point to ONE successful use of libertarian economic policy EVER that benefited more than the top 1%."

Is that the question now? No problem. The overthrow of the Feudal System allowed each man to seek out his own destiny rather than being tied to his feudal lord and his estate.

You want to be a lawyer or physician, you want to move to Hollywood to seek fame and fortune? You can thank libertarian principles of freedom for that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The overthrow of the Feudal System was not libertarian.

How silly to even suggest such a thing. The city masters through the guilds rose to fill the gap, not 'free' men.

 

[RKMBrown]

Bottom Line: No one feels this economy is going gang busters. Intuitively, Americans know something's wrong.

We econ geeks can spend hundreds of hours on this board throwing around economic statistics, but my guess is the average American/average reader doesn't read threads in the Economy section. It's too wonky.

Oldfart commented that my posts don't sound the way most macroeconomists talk. I can't stand how most macroeconomists talk. Most don't speak in a way that normal Americans can understand. They speak to out-geek the next geek. Just like every econ professor I ever had.

I'd like this to be a thread meant for "normal" Americans - those living out on main street, not Wall Street - who just want to know why they're not feeling optimistic about their economic situations and what can be done about it.

This thread is meant to involve people who want more "intuitive" answers about the economy.

Let's see if we can manage to do that.

Under Carter this country was falling apart. Under Reagan I was proud of my country and the economy began to function again, the country really came together. Even under Clinton things remained upbeat. Then Bush put us into a never ending war against fear, a war against no one or country in particular that would also be fought against our allies and Americans. A war not unlike the war on drugs or the war on poverty. Bull shit wars with no end.

Then we elected the biggest pieces of shit this country has ever had as a leaders to run this country: Obama, Pelosi, Reid, ...

The only parts of this country still working are working in spite of the fact that this country is now a hell hole of marxism, cronyism, offshoring, and poverty. We are purposefully bringing in tens of millions of additional poor for the welfare lines, quadrupling health care costs, ... I spit on every single democrat and republican that caused this.

To hell with this welfare proud piece of shit economy. Good job liberals and neocons you've destroyed this country for your own benefit. May you rot in hell.

 

[kaz]

Conservatives simplistic minds

I stopped reading here. If you want to debate conservatives, I think that's what you should do.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The biggest pieces of shit this country has ever had as a far right electorate have shamed our country.

BHO is no better but certainly not any worse than Bush or Clinton, but he is certainly a better American than the RMKBrowns on this board.

 

[RKMBrown]

The biggest pieces of shit this country has ever had as a far right electorate have shamed our country.

BHO is no better but certainly not any worse than Bush or Clinton, but he is certainly a better American than the RMKBrowns on this board.

Obuma not worse than Clinton? ROFL now I've heard it all. Cmon Fakey, come out and admit how much Obama is paying you to defend his shit on this board.

 

[Antares]

The biggest pieces of shit this country has ever had as a far right electorate have shamed our country.

BHO is no better but certainly not any worse than Bush or Clinton, but he is certainly a better American than the RMKBrowns on this board.

Hussein is no better American than you are, and you are American excrement Jake.

You are a liar, a fraud and perhaps the worst example of Christian I've ever encountered.

You stand for nothing, you have no core...you believe in 'getting elected" and doing whatever that takes.

You are luke warm and God has said he will spew people like you from his mouth.

 

[Antares]

The biggest pieces of shit this country has ever had as a far right electorate have shamed our country.

BHO is no better but certainly not any worse than Bush or Clinton, but he is certainly a better American than the RMKBrowns on this board.

Obuma not worse than Clinton? ROFL now I've heard it all. Cmon Fakey, come out and admit how much Obama is paying you to defend his shit on this board.

Give me Bill Clinton over this over sold piece of shit in the White House now ANY fucking day of the week.

 

[Peach]

The economy was hurt by 9/11, the Iraq disaster, and numerous other Bush II screw ups; Obama has not been able to reverse the trend over 5.5 years. As an administrator, Clinton* soars above both.

*Though a loathsome creature in his personal life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Just so.