Former seat of Confederacy takes down last monument

[JoeB131]

Thats not entirely untrue

A few people might have thought so then as angry vengeful repub carpetbaggers invaded the South after surrender

Then as now libs didnt want peace and reconciliation

They wanted and still want to get even

It could have been different

But our one chance died at Ford’s Theater

Uh, if Lincoln had lived, it would have been a lot worse for the old racists. The guy who REALLY screwed up reconstruction was Andrew Johnson, who was willing to end slavery and call it a day. That allowed the rise of the Klan and Jim Crow and the rest.

I have a history book that reprinted newspapers prior to the CW on both sides. It was tariffs and states rights.

I'm happy for you. But it was about slavery. Sorry to keep breaking that to you.

Yes, I come from a long line of Confederates

And they were good people

And, anyone who does not think so can kiss my ass

No, a good person doesn't go out and try to murder his countrymen so that a few rich people can keep owning other people.

That's like the opposite of what good people do.

 

[Chillicothe]

"I come from a long line of Confederates And they were good people And, anyone who does not think so can kiss my ass"

-------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, fair enough. But.......

....but here is an observation from a guy who KICKED a lot of Confederate ass - Sam Grant:

""I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse.”

 

[Cellblock2429]

Uh, if Lincoln had lived, it would have been a lot worse for the old racists. The guy who REALLY screwed up reconstruction was Andrew Johnson, who was willing to end slavery and call it a day. That allowed the rise of the Klan and Jim Crow and the rest.



I'm happy for you. But it was about slavery. Sorry to keep breaking that to you.


No, a good person doesn't go out and try to murder his countrymen so that a few rich people can keep owning other people.

That's like the opposite of what good people do.

/----/ "I'm happy for you. But it was about slavery. Sorry to keep breaking that to you."
I understand that you think your opinion is more credible than my life experiences and historical facts, but the war started out for one thing and ended about another. The Derad Scott decison was a factor, but tensions over taraffis, politics and expansion were the key factors leading up to the war.
“You free-soil agitators are not interested in slavery….not at all…It is so that you may have an opportunity of cheating us that you want to limit slave territory. You desire to weaken the political power of the Southern states. And why? Because you want, by an unjust system of legislation, to promote the industry of the North-East states, at the expense of the people of the South and their industry.” - Jefferson Davis 1850s

5 Causes of the Civil War (Besides Slavery) - Intellectual Takeout

As I type, the secession movement in California is picking up steam. Polling shows that one in three Californians support leaving the Union following Donald

intellectualtakeout.org

 

[Mac-7]

Actually, Historians went back to the Source Materials, where every declaration of secession was specifically about race and slavery.

No mention of Tariffs. No mention of "States Rights" other than their right to maintain slavery.

Then after the war, after they all looked around at the devastation and the guys walking around without limbs, they wanted to find that it all "meant something". Thus the lost cause mythology was born.

The issues

Uh, if Lincoln had lived, it would have been a lot worse for the old racists. The guy who REALLY screwed up reconstruction was Andrew Johnson, who was willing to end slavery and call it a day. That allowed the rise of the Klan and Jim Crow and the rest.

you are mistaken

For the radical republicans Lee’s surrender did not end their war against the South

And Lincoln stood in their way of retribution

 

[Mac-7]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, fair enough. But.......

....but here is an observation from a guy who KICKED a lot of Confederate ass - Sam Grant:

""I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse.”

Sam was entitled to his opinion

As I keep pointing out, abolitionists chose the flashpoint but the underlying sources of friction between north and south were many

 

[Zincwarrior]

For 110 years historians and common people knew that the war was about far more than just race

Thats only how it was taught in the South mon amie.

 

[Zincwarrior]

A people of courtliness and gentility.

Tell us more!

 

[Chillicothe]

"...abolitionists chose the flashpoint..."t

Ummm, I don't think so.
Rather than anonymous "abolitionists" it seems to have been Chestnut, Beauregard and Walker
To wit:

"On Thursday, April 11, 1861, Beauregard sent .....Colonel James Chesnut, Jr....... to demand the surrender of the fort. Anderson declined, and the aides returned to report to Beauregard. After Beauregard had consulted the Confederate Secretary of War, Leroy Walker......The aides then left the fort and proceeded to the nearby Fort Johnson. There, Chesnut ordered the fort to open fire on Fort Sumter.[8]: 59–60 

On Friday, April 12, 1861, at 4:30 a.m., Confederate batteries opened fire on the fort, firing for 34 straight hours. ......Lieutenant Henry S. Farley, commanding a battery of two 10-inch siege mortars on James Island actually fired the first shot at 4:30 a.m. (Detzer 2001, pp. 269–71). No attempt was made to return the fire for more than two hours.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems your "flash point" must've been at the working end of that 10-inch mortar. No?

 

[Mac-7]

Thats only how it was taught in the South mon amie.

I am not responsible for myths taught in the north

Or misuse of the French language

Never Say “Mon Ami” in French (And What to Say Instead) - Comme une Française

Find out why you should never use “Mon Ami” in a French greeting or conversation, and what to say instead, in this French lesson.

www.commeunefrancaise.com

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Tell us more!

Like every other society before or after, criminals were punished. Until now. Today, it would be a surviving victim of a black criminal hanging. Why? Because black lives matter.

 

[Pellinore]

/----/ "I'm happy for you. But it was about slavery. Sorry to keep breaking that to you."
I understand that you think your opinion is more credible than my life experiences and historical facts, but the war started out for one thing and ended about another. The Derad Scott decison was a factor, but tensions over taraffis, politics and expansion were the key factors leading up to the war.
“You free-soil agitators are not interested in slavery….not at all…It is so that you may have an opportunity of cheating us that you want to limit slave territory. You desire to weaken the political power of the Southern states. And why? Because you want, by an unjust system of legislation, to promote the industry of the North-East states, at the expense of the people of the South and their industry.” - Jefferson Davis 1850s

5 Causes of the Civil War (Besides Slavery) - Intellectual Takeout

As I type, the secession movement in California is picking up steam. Polling shows that one in three Californians support leaving the Union following Donald

intellectualtakeout.org

I would suggest you analyze your sources. You have a quote from the indicted, an article on Intellectual Takeout, and one book. Your opposition points to primary documents and historians who have spent a lifetime studying the issue.

The Civil War was primarily about slavery. "States' rights" concerned the states' rights to own slaves. There were other ancillary issues, but the issue that made it a war was slavery. There is a mountain of reputable information to back that up.

 

[Pellinore]

Yes, I come from a long line of Confederates

And they were good people

And, anyone who does not think so can kiss my ass

Y'see, I can understand this. It is difficult to hear people stand up and say that the patriarchs and matriarchs of your family, stories of whom you've heard since childhood and whose photo is on your mantelpiece, was an enslaving barbarian. I think that's a mistake; it's one thing to accuse an entire group or nation of people, but it's entirely different to distill that all down to point a finger at one foot soldier or housewife. (Leadership is different, of course, I'm talking about the rank and file here.)

The other side of this is that our ancestors were fallible humans. Some of them may have been demigods to their families but demons out in the real world. Ancestors are more than just notes on a family tree; they could be every bit as inspirational, disappointing, or self-contradictory as anyone else.

I have a few ancestors myself who fought for the Confederacy, one of whom was an unapologetic pro-slavery monster, and another a CSA surgeon who, as far as any of us know, never picked up a weapon. I can acknowledge that the monster was a monster (his exploits were reported, and are now widely known) but at the same time realize that my grandfather—his grandson—fondly remembered when his devoted and caring Pop-Pop taught him to ride a horse. I can also counter anyone who claims that every CSA soldier was a vicious racist and murderer by pointing to my non-slave-owning surgeon ancestor, who went where he was told and did his best to save lives.

My point is this: There were as many different stories in there as there were people involved, so I believe that your ancestors were good people. Judge your ancestors, and where they fit in to their deeply flawed system, on their own merits. Don't let anyone tell you that every single foot soldier or supply clerk was an unfathomable degenerate.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Like every other society before or after, criminals were punished. Until now. Today, it would be a surviving victim of a black criminal hanging. Why? Because black lives matter.

Wait...you are supporting lynching as criminals being punished? Are you a foreigner, or just absurdly ignorant?

 

[Redfish]

Barbara Johns: The US' forgotten civil rights hero

More than 70 years after the teenager moved a nation to end school segregation, her statue will replace Civil War Confederate commander Robert E Lee's inside the US Capitol.

www.bbc.com

This article states that before the civil rights act the amount spent on education was as follows.

Blacks - $300 a year
Whitey - $1700 a year

And that was a century after the rebs were beaten. Explain the equality in those figures.

yankee schools in the north vs schools in the south where kids of all races received equal education., maybe separate but equal. Yes, the north won the illegal war of northern aggression, but the south won everything else since then.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

History you don't like.

Anti-history meant to soothe the butthurt of the loser savages.

"Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the (Civil War) was over. … The only thing that kept this from happening was his assassination."

Did Abraham Lincoln plan to send ex-slaves to Central America after the Civil War?

The debate over whether states should allow the Confederate battle flag in close proximity to their state capitol -- rei

www.politifact.com

 

[Zincwarrior]

I had relatives fighting from Pennsylvania, Texas and Louisiana in the conflict. I visited where one died at Shiloh. But thats the past, just like their fights against the British, British (yep two wars), Prussians, Comanches, Russians, Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, and Nazis. I don't hold gruff against their former enemies, and don't have an emotional dog defending them.

 

[Zincwarrior]

yankee schools in the north vs schools in the south where kids of all races received equal education., maybe separate but equal.

Thats an interesting view not supported by facts, but you be you.

Yes, the north won the illegal war of northern aggression,

I remember hearing that phrase. Then I read an actual history book.

but the south won everything else since then.

Mississippi.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Erasing history will make sure we repeat it.

Wrong. There are no statues to Hitler in Germany or Mussolini in Italy. Lee was responsible for the most deaths and casualties during the Civil War.

Civil War Casualties

Casualties Numbers And Battle Death Statistics For the American Civil War Though the number of killed and wounded in the Civil War is not known precisely,

www.historynet.com

AND, the numbers of those who post on this message board seek to have another Civil War.

 

[Redfish]

Thats an interesting view not supported by facts, but you be you.

I remember hearing that phrase. Then I read an actual history book.

Mississippi.

those scenes played out in the north as well as the south. one of the largest KKK organizations was in Illinois. Yes, it was wrong, but its been fixed nationally. But now because of you idiot libs we once again have racial discrimination and segregation. But now its the blacks segregating and the whites being held back. Reparations will fix it---------------------LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Redfish]

Wrong. There are no statues to Hitler in Germany or Mussolini in Italy. Lee was responsible for the most deaths and casualties during the Civil War.

Civil War Casualties

Casualties Numbers And Battle Death Statistics For the American Civil War Though the number of killed and wounded in the Civil War is not known precisely,

www.historynet.com

AND, the numbers of those who post on this message board seek to have another Civil War.

liar, there is a huge statue of Mussolini in Rome and Rome is in Italy last time I checked.