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Not really. He was called to the scene afterall.Yep, that rule applies to both parties in this situation. That is assuming she didnt know it was a cop, YET she saw his gun.When someone grabs a gun, you never wait.In the first example, the cop was obviously retarded. In the second example he was not a retard. When youre in a bad neighborhood and someone grabs a gun, you dont wait to shoot them because, that would be very dumb.
In the first, the officer followed protocol, identifying himself and gave the civilian an opportunity to comply before killing him.
In the second, the officer flagrantly violated protocol and made it impossible for the civilian to comply before killing her.
thats why she should have shot him as soon as she had the shot,,,
except the cop was the intruder,,,
He wont do prison time for this one, or if he does, it wont be for murder, but rather some lesser charge.But he did have time to retreat to cover and announce himself. He chose poorly, as his soon to be stretched out asshole can attest to...She grabbed her gun. He had no time for a conversation.the report says officers, so not only he thought that.Fort Worth police chief: 'No excuse' for Aaron Dean to shoot Atatiana Jefferson in her home
Kraus said the gun found in the room "made sense" if Jefferson was alarmed to hear someone walking around outside her bedroom window. He said the officers apparently believed they were responding to an "open structure" call – which could have meant the home was broken into – rather than a "welfare call" in which they check to make sure people in the home are safe.
Well that makes sense that it could have been a communication screw up when the officer was dispatched.
And what I heard, her door was indeed open. And she pointed a gun, and he was looking for a possible burglary. a scenario that played out and in my opinion, is no one's fault. tragic as it is.
He failed to identify himself as a police officer, and he fired the shot before finishing the order to show her hands. No, this was not a tragic accident, this was a total fuck up on the officer's part.
Not really. He was called to the scene afterall.Yep, that rule applies to both parties in this situation. That is assuming she didnt know it was a cop, YET she saw his gun.When someone grabs a gun, you never wait.In the first, the officer followed protocol, identifying himself and gave the civilian an opportunity to comply before killing him.
In the second, the officer flagrantly violated protocol and made it impossible for the civilian to comply before killing her.
thats why she should have shot him as soon as she had the shot,,,
except the cop was the intruder,,,
He didnt have time to make that announcement.She grabbed her gun. He had no time for a conversation.the report says officers, so not only he thought that.Fort Worth police chief: 'No excuse' for Aaron Dean to shoot Atatiana Jefferson in her home
Kraus said the gun found in the room "made sense" if Jefferson was alarmed to hear someone walking around outside her bedroom window. He said the officers apparently believed they were responding to an "open structure" call – which could have meant the home was broken into – rather than a "welfare call" in which they check to make sure people in the home are safe.
Well that makes sense that it could have been a communication screw up when the officer was dispatched.
And what I heard, her door was indeed open. And she pointed a gun, and he was looking for a possible burglary. a scenario that played out and in my opinion, is no one's fault. tragic as it is.
He failed to identify himself as a police officer, and he fired the shot before finishing the order to show her hands. No, this was not a tragic accident, this was a total fuck up on the officer's part.
You know, when I was on the Security Force while stationed in Newport, one of the first things we were taught to do was to identify ourselves as base police when investigating things. This officer should have shouted "police, put your hands up", and if he had ID'd himself as an officer, she would have more than likely relaxed when she realized he was an officer and not an intruder. Sorry, but this officer fucked up, plain and simple. And, the police chief said that if he hadn't resigned, he would have been fired because he's screwed up in the past as well.
And, I'm going to ask the same question that I asked further up the thread, but nobody took the time to answer. If there was someone skulking around your backyard with a flashlight at 2:00 am, and you didn't know who it was, if you had a gun in the house, would you arm yourself before going and checking it out?
Most people if they have a gun will arm themselves before checking it out, even if they say they won't.
He had every right to be there. Dont be silly.Not really. He was called to the scene afterall.Yep, that rule applies to both parties in this situation. That is assuming she didnt know it was a cop, YET she saw his gun.When someone grabs a gun, you never wait.
thats why she should have shot him as soon as she had the shot,,,
except the cop was the intruder,,,
since there was no sign of a crime it doesnt matter,,he had no right to enter the property like he did and murder the home owner
and yet you failed to say what that was,,,He had every right to be there. Dont be silly.Not really. He was called to the scene afterall.Yep, that rule applies to both parties in this situation. That is assuming she didnt know it was a cop, YET she saw his gun.thats why she should have shot him as soon as she had the shot,,,
except the cop was the intruder,,,
since there was no sign of a crime it doesnt matter,,he had no right to enter the property like he did and murder the home owner
Usually. But even so it shines a light on a problem that effects everyone. Because the victim was black it’s getting mass public scrutiny. If the victim was white, as is the case in most police shootings it’s doubtful that most of us would be hearing about this. It’s past time PDs across the nation started having their cops reigned in. Their ever increasing militarism is becoming more of a danger to the public than it is helpful. People need to learn to rely on themselves more, and police less.the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.the policeman thought that the homeowner was a burglar and the home owner thought that the policeman was a burglar, please stop demonizing the police, they are human, they make mistakes
Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
Usually. But even so it shines a light on a problem that effects everyone. Because the victim was black it’s getting mass public scrutiny. If the victim was white, as is the case in most police shootings it’s doubtful that most of us would be hearing about this. It’s past time PDs across the nation started having their cops reigned in. Their ever increasing militarism is becoming more of a danger to the public than it is helpful. People need to learn to rely on themselves more, and police less.the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
The victims race is an issue. Black folks already have major trust issues with the police. Now, even on welfare calls, when folks aren't committing any crimes, when no crimes are even reported, and folks are just minding their own business in their own homes, they can still get killed by police.
Worse, we have very similar situations in interactions between the FWPD and old white guys in the form of Mr. Waller.....where the police provided *elaborate* quantities of identification and time. With the police identifying themselves as police, giving Mr. Waller a lawful order, giving Mr. Waller time to register the command, giving him time to put the gun on the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to get angry, giving Mr. Waller time to 'freak out', giving Mr. Waller time to reach back down to the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to pick the gun back up, giving Mr. Waller time to time to get into a 'ready' firing stance.
And only THEN do the police shoot him.
Where with Ms. Jefferson, from the time she was told to put up her hands to the time she was shot to death.....was 0.8 second.
I'm not saying that race was immediately responsible for that. But the optics on this are absolutely terrible. And trust between the black community and the FWPD have been destroyed.
Says who? Says the chief of police of Fort Worth.
She obviously grabbed her gun before he could announce himself.The policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.the policeman thought that the homeowner was a burglar and the home owner thought that the policeman was a burglar, please stop demonizing the police, they are human, they make mistakesAccidental in texas means something like your gun going of while you're cleaning it.
This officer definitely intended to shoot here.
Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
Yeah, you didn't read the article did you?
Officer Hoepnner claims that when he spotted Mr. Waller, he identified himself and commanded the homeowner to drop his gun. According to the police narrative, Waller was hesitant to comply with commands of the strangers. After momentarily setting his gun down, Waller allegedly “freaked out” and “lost it” and picked the gun back up and assumed a “ready” stance, aiming his pistol at police officers. Hoepnner opened fire.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
The cop in this instance never identified himself, instead sneaking into her back yard and shot her to death while he was ordering her to raise her hands, making it impossible for her to comply before being killed.
Also, this was pre-body cam. We can see *exactly* what the cop did, without it being filtered through the lens of his perception.
She obviously grabbed her gun before he could announce himself.The policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.the policeman thought that the homeowner was a burglar and the home owner thought that the policeman was a burglar, please stop demonizing the police, they are human, they make mistakes
Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
Yeah, you didn't read the article did you?
Officer Hoepnner claims that when he spotted Mr. Waller, he identified himself and commanded the homeowner to drop his gun. According to the police narrative, Waller was hesitant to comply with commands of the strangers. After momentarily setting his gun down, Waller allegedly “freaked out” and “lost it” and picked the gun back up and assumed a “ready” stance, aiming his pistol at police officers. Hoepnner opened fire.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
The cop in this instance never identified himself, instead sneaking into her back yard and shot her to death while he was ordering her to raise her hands, making it impossible for her to comply before being killed.
Also, this was pre-body cam. We can see *exactly* what the cop did, without it being filtered through the lens of his perception.
You obviously are making excuses for this cop murdering a black woman.
Usually. But even so it shines a light on a problem that effects everyone. Because the victim was black it’s getting mass public scrutiny. If the victim was white, as is the case in most police shootings it’s doubtful that most of us would be hearing about this. It’s past time PDs across the nation started having their cops reigned in. Their ever increasing militarism is becoming more of a danger to the public than it is helpful. People need to learn to rely on themselves more, and police less.the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
The victims race is an issue. Black folks already have major trust issues with the police. Now, even on welfare calls, when folks aren't committing any crimes, when no crimes are even reported, and folks are just minding their own business in their own homes, they can still get killed by police.
Worse, we have very similar situations in interactions between the FWPD and old white guys in the form of Mr. Waller.....where the police provided *elaborate* quantities of identification and time. With the police identifying themselves as police, giving Mr. Waller a lawful order, giving Mr. Waller time to register the command, giving him time to put the gun on the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to get angry, giving Mr. Waller time to 'freak out', giving Mr. Waller time to reach back down to the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to pick the gun back up, giving Mr. Waller time to time to get into a 'ready' firing stance.
And only THEN do the police shoot him.
Where with Ms. Jefferson, from the time she was told to put up her hands to the time she was shot to death.....was 0.8 second.
I'm not saying that race was immediately responsible for that. But the optics on this are absolutely terrible. And trust between the black community and the FWPD have been destroyed.
Says who? Says the chief of police of Fort Worth.
when you make it about race when there are no signs it was you undermine the real problem which is the police are turning into nothing short of hit men for the government,
far more whites are killed by cops not blacks,,
Usually. But even so it shines a light on a problem that effects everyone. Because the victim was black it’s getting mass public scrutiny. If the victim was white, as is the case in most police shootings it’s doubtful that most of us would be hearing about this. It’s past time PDs across the nation started having their cops reigned in. Their ever increasing militarism is becoming more of a danger to the public than it is helpful. People need to learn to rely on themselves more, and police less.the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
The victims race is an issue. Black folks already have major trust issues with the police. Now, even on welfare calls, when folks aren't committing any crimes, when no crimes are even reported, and folks are just minding their own business in their own homes, they can still get killed by police.
Worse, we have very similar situations in interactions between the FWPD and old white guys in the form of Mr. Waller.....where the police provided *elaborate* quantities of identification and time. With the police identifying themselves as police, giving Mr. Waller a lawful order, giving Mr. Waller time to register the command, giving him time to put the gun on the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to get angry, giving Mr. Waller time to 'freak out', giving Mr. Waller time to reach back down to the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to pick the gun back up, giving Mr. Waller time to time to get into a 'ready' firing stance.
And only THEN do the police shoot him.
Where with Ms. Jefferson, from the time she was told to put up her hands to the time she was shot to death.....was 0.8 second.
I'm not saying that race was immediately responsible for that. But the optics on this are absolutely terrible. And trust between the black community and the FWPD have been destroyed.
Says who? Says the chief of police of Fort Worth.
when you make it about race when there are no signs it was you undermine the real problem which is the police are turning into nothing short of hit men for the government,
far more whites are killed by cops not blacks,,
the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.the policeman thought that the homeowner was a burglar and the home owner thought that the policeman was a burglar, please stop demonizing the police, they are human, they make mistakesAccidental in texas means something like your gun going of while you're cleaning it.
This officer definitely intended to shoot here.
Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
She obviously grabbed her gun before he could announce himself.The policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
Yeah, you didn't read the article did you?
Officer Hoepnner claims that when he spotted Mr. Waller, he identified himself and commanded the homeowner to drop his gun. According to the police narrative, Waller was hesitant to comply with commands of the strangers. After momentarily setting his gun down, Waller allegedly “freaked out” and “lost it” and picked the gun back up and assumed a “ready” stance, aiming his pistol at police officers. Hoepnner opened fire.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
The cop in this instance never identified himself, instead sneaking into her back yard and shot her to death while he was ordering her to raise her hands, making it impossible for her to comply before being killed.
Also, this was pre-body cam. We can see *exactly* what the cop did, without it being filtered through the lens of his perception.
You obviously are making excuses for this cop murdering a black woman.
thats racist,,,
that's what good conservatives doShe obviously grabbed her gun before he could announce himself.The policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
Yeah, you didn't read the article did you?
Officer Hoepnner claims that when he spotted Mr. Waller, he identified himself and commanded the homeowner to drop his gun. According to the police narrative, Waller was hesitant to comply with commands of the strangers. After momentarily setting his gun down, Waller allegedly “freaked out” and “lost it” and picked the gun back up and assumed a “ready” stance, aiming his pistol at police officers. Hoepnner opened fire.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
The cop in this instance never identified himself, instead sneaking into her back yard and shot her to death while he was ordering her to raise her hands, making it impossible for her to comply before being killed.
Also, this was pre-body cam. We can see *exactly* what the cop did, without it being filtered through the lens of his perception.
You obviously are making excuses for this cop murdering a black woman.
thats racist,,,
You turn a blind eye to the real racist remarks.
Usually. But even so it shines a light on a problem that effects everyone. Because the victim was black it’s getting mass public scrutiny. If the victim was white, as is the case in most police shootings it’s doubtful that most of us would be hearing about this. It’s past time PDs across the nation started having their cops reigned in. Their ever increasing militarism is becoming more of a danger to the public than it is helpful. People need to learn to rely on themselves more, and police less.the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThat was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
The victims race is an issue. Black folks already have major trust issues with the police. Now, even on welfare calls, when folks aren't committing any crimes, when no crimes are even reported, and folks are just minding their own business in their own homes, they can still get killed by police.
Worse, we have very similar situations in interactions between the FWPD and old white guys in the form of Mr. Waller.....where the police provided *elaborate* quantities of identification and time. With the police identifying themselves as police, giving Mr. Waller a lawful order, giving Mr. Waller time to register the command, giving him time to put the gun on the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to get angry, giving Mr. Waller time to 'freak out', giving Mr. Waller time to reach back down to the ground, giving Mr. Waller time to pick the gun back up, giving Mr. Waller time to time to get into a 'ready' firing stance.
And only THEN do the police shoot him.
Where with Ms. Jefferson, from the time she was told to put up her hands to the time she was shot to death.....was 0.8 second.
I'm not saying that race was immediately responsible for that. But the optics on this are absolutely terrible. And trust between the black community and the FWPD have been destroyed.
Says who? Says the chief of police of Fort Worth.
when you make it about race when there are no signs it was you undermine the real problem which is the police are turning into nothing short of hit men for the government,
far more whites are killed by cops not blacks,,
You always were pretty stupid. There are more whites and there are more white criminals that do stupid violent stuff to cops.
She obviously grabbed her gun before he could announce himself.The policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
Yeah, you didn't read the article did you?
Officer Hoepnner claims that when he spotted Mr. Waller, he identified himself and commanded the homeowner to drop his gun. According to the police narrative, Waller was hesitant to comply with commands of the strangers. After momentarily setting his gun down, Waller allegedly “freaked out” and “lost it” and picked the gun back up and assumed a “ready” stance, aiming his pistol at police officers. Hoepnner opened fire.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
The cop in this instance never identified himself, instead sneaking into her back yard and shot her to death while he was ordering her to raise her hands, making it impossible for her to comply before being killed.
Also, this was pre-body cam. We can see *exactly* what the cop did, without it being filtered through the lens of his perception.
You obviously are making excuses for this cop murdering a black woman.
thats racist,,,
You turn a blind eye to the real racist remarks.
the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.the policeman thought that the homeowner was a burglar and the home owner thought that the policeman was a burglar, please stop demonizing the police, they are human, they make mistakes
Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
Whether they do or not they have to stop. What's your argument here? That cops should get away with killing innocent people because the media uses things like this to sell advertising?
why would they have identified themselves on an open structure call? you have no idea policy processes. You think they walk up and say, hey burglar, I'm here come out come out wherever you are? you don't think perhaps they want the element of surprise on their side to apprehend a criminal? typical jump out of the plane mentality in full view by you.situation is different. but to answer your question, I highly doubt they'd stop since it wasn't a call and I'm in a garage. Now if they did stop, I'd think they most likely would shine a flash light into the structure and to ask some questions. Again, that wasn't this call. This was, and I just posted it, an open structure call, someone might have broke in. burglar as I suggested in a previous post. Again, are you saying cops aren't allowed to defend themselves on a call? Really, that's what you're going to go with? And a family member stated the woman pointed the gun at him.serious, you're not writing this right? 2:30 am and you think it's light. wow. BTW, the door was open as reported. Son, I can't help your stupid.don't know how you'll get past it then. I gave you the answer you requested. and you say it doesn't happen. well, it didn't here, nope. but again, what was the cop supposed to do? explain for me. it's dark, 2:30am and he's looking for a burglar based on the call. And, he wasn't alone. go ahead, now explain? did she point the gun at him? The family member says yes.
Sorry, but police need to be smarter than this. He completely put himself into this situation. Its dark? but all the lights were on in the house. He had to think to himself that there is a great chance the residents are home.... that is very important. Why would he be looking primarily for a burglar based on the call, when the call said nothing about suspicious suspects?
This cop has to think in his head that since he has not identified himself as a police officer, any resident inside will not know he is a cop, and being 2 in the morning, and dark outside, he is going to scare anyone who lives there.
He damn well should have announced the police arrival at the front door... shined the spotlight on the dark side of the house and then rang the doorbell. Sure WHAT IF there was a prowler.... but the fact is people live there! no crime was reported! doesnt matter if the resident was holding a gun, sadly in this particular case the police created the situation for disaster.
so if your working out in your garage late one night and you leave your door open for some reason at 2 in the morning, and a passing patrol car stops because he sees an open door, how would you like him to approach your house? a flash from the spotlight across your front yard, maybe the officer knocking at your door with a flashlight?
or do you want him sneaking around back peering into your windows ? how would that end up exactly?
Tragic, for sure. I have nothing more to say than that. tragic. there was a no win scenario at play.
No I wasn't saying cops can't defend themselves. As i had said earlier, the police had put themselves and the woman into that situation because they did not first identify themselves. Had they done that, there would be no reason for the woman to believe she had an intruder in her back yard. No reason to pick up a gun.
It's the fault of the police, if not solely the officer who pulled the trigger, then it was how the department fielded the phone call from the neighbor. Someone in the chain screwed up, because you can't send armed police to someones house in the middle of the night for the wrong reason. It's asking for something to go wrong.
the point is that the Press uses these police shootings to incite racial strifeThe policeman did go there to shoot the home owner.Oh my God, please explain how he thought she was burglar. What a disgrace, why don't you just go and spit on the woman's grave.
He was there to investigate a burglary.
It was a mistake.
We would not be debating this if the home owner was white.
Officer cleared after going to wrong address, shooting innocent grandpa in his garage - Police State USA
That was 5 years ago. Yes, we would be discussing this if it happened today. It's no longer OK to kill innocent people.
Whether they do or not they have to stop. What's your argument here? That cops should get away with killing innocent people because the media uses things like this to sell advertising?
What's your argument here?
We should not force white police to serve in hostile black neighborhoods
Particularly when it makes the natives restless and angry at the white cops
