Founding Fathers against Obama

[LilOlLady]

Jefferson was very conflicted about this, as was he about a lot of things. Brilliance usually has that effect.

Great. While he was "conflicted" people were owned as property.

I love how "brilliant" = "being against slavery in principle, but since I own some and life would suck without them, I, personally, don't need to worry about it"

Unfortunately this is a part of our history. There is nothing we can do to change it, and it takes nothing away from one person's intelligence. I also do not think that's how he saw things, and I do think that he worried about it. Overall I wouldn't say Jefferson was against blacks in general. I think in that time the majority of people were, and against a majority no progress can be made. Example= Gay rights. Eventually they will be able to marry. And future generations will look upon us as bigots and homophobic as a whole, although that is not the case.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Isa 5;20

Future generation is getting more immoral,degenerate and perverted. And GODless.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I did not say that TJ would give his stamp approval on all of the Republicans' actions. I'm saying that he would find Obama's actions and policies abhorrent. And Obama is in the corporations pockets btw.

My point is that they are all owned by corporations.

Do you really think that Romney isn't?

Not sure this is an American government they would even recognize.

Do you think they saw corporations as citizens?

I think it's unrealistic for a candidate to win the president w/o corporate backers. I think the Constitution should be amended to deal with the issue. I can't blame Romney for not taking the same advantages Obama takes though.

But there is a major difference that the founding fathers would find appalling. The founding fathers railed against excessive taxation and government being all in our business and against a class of people on it's teet. They were fundamentally against that nonsense.

I agree with much of what you've said here.

 

[LilOlLady]

Change is amending it. In 237 years, 27 changes isn't bad. Your opinion is the minority by a large margin on this subject.

Other times it's just ignored.

 

[yidnar]

The actual problem is pandering incompetents W and Reagan, obviously. Duh. Not Obama cleaning up their messes, dupe. LOL

Reagan left us a high but manageable debt. Dubya aand Obama most certainly created a perpetual debt problem. Especially Obama.

Bush kicked off a massive campaign in the Middle east to fight terrorist !! Obama is just spending like an adolescent with his mothers credit card !!

 

[USMCSergeant]

Great. While he was "conflicted" people were owned as property.

I love how "brilliant" = "being against slavery in principle, but since I own some and life would suck without them, I, personally, don't need to worry about it"

Unfortunately this is a part of our history. There is nothing we can do to change it, and it takes nothing away from one person's intelligence. I also do not think that's how he saw things, and I do think that he worried about it. Overall I wouldn't say Jefferson was against blacks in general. I think in that time the majority of people were, and against a majority no progress can be made. Example= Gay rights. Eventually they will be able to marry. And future generations will look upon us as bigots and homophobic as a whole, although that is not the case.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Isa 5;20

Future generation is getting more immoral,degenerate and perverted. And GODless.

In your opinion. Past generations saw inter-racial relationships as perverted immoral. Past generations thought women being able to vote as non-sense. As of now, we have freedom of religion. Some of the population do not believe in your God, and therefore find your pushing of religion onto the general population to be going too far. It isn't up to us to judge. That is God's job.

 

[LilOlLady]

My point is that they are all owned by corporations.

Do you really think that Romney isn't?

Not sure this is an American government they would even recognize.

Do you think they saw corporations as citizens?

I think it's unrealistic for a candidate to win the president w/o corporate backers. I think the Constitution should be amended to deal with the issue. I can't blame Romney for not taking the same advantages Obama takes though.

But there is a major difference that the founding fathers would find appalling. The founding fathers railed against excessive taxation and government being all in our business and against a class of people on it's teet. They were fundamentally against that nonsense.

I agree with much of what you've said here.

That was fine when the country was small and the governemnt was small. The country is bigger and more complicated then the 1700 and more is needed.

what exactly is "excess taxation"? All in our businesses? Most of us don't have any business to be up into any way. Nothing but words to express not want any government control at all.
You would disagree with anarchy also.

I believe if they were alive today in this country their attitude would be different.

 

[JakeStarkey]

folks here are ignoring Hamiltonian treasury programs that were Big Government and led to the US having the best financial credit on European markets within five years of implimentation.

folks here are ignoring the first US bank that had 20% capitalization and board directors.

folks here are ignoring that Washington supervised the building of D. C. with an effective veto.

 

[Vast LWC]

CNN has their moments:

But you're right that they are trying to appear down the center. Their form of liberal bias is much less overt. They are constantly sanitizing the news; disregarding corruption and voices while telling us that "everything is okay." I frankly have no more respect for CNN than I do for MSNBC.

I will accept that CNN may have a slight left-of-center bias, but it is nothing like the outright extremism expressed by MSNBC and FoxNews.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I think it's unrealistic for a candidate to win the president w/o corporate backers. I think the Constitution should be amended to deal with the issue. I can't blame Romney for not taking the same advantages Obama takes though.

But there is a major difference that the founding fathers would find appalling. The founding fathers railed against excessive taxation and government being all in our business and against a class of people on it's teet. They were fundamentally against that nonsense.

I agree with much of what you've said here.

That was fine when the country was small and the governemnt was small. The country is bigger and more complicated then the 1700 and more is needed.

what exactly is "excess taxation"? All in our businesses? Most of us don't have any business to be up into any way. Nothing but words to express not want any government control at all.
You would disagree with anarchy also.

I believe if they were alive today in this country their attitude would be different.

I believe their basic belief in reason, not faith, would prevail.

They would of course be appaled by the notion of corporations as citizens.

I'm a socialist. I champion correct government oversight of a lot of things.

 

[The T]

I did not say that TJ would give his stamp approval on all of the Republicans' actions. I'm saying that he would find Obama's actions and policies abhorrent. And Obama is in the corporations pockets btw.

My point is that they are all owned by corporations.

Do you really think that Romney isn't?

Not sure this is an American government they would even recognize.

Do you think they saw corporations as citizens?

I think it's unrealistic for a candidate to win the president w/o corporate backers. I think the Constitution should be amended to deal with the issue. I can't blame Romney for not taking the same advantages Obama takes though.

But there is a major difference that the founding fathers would find appalling. The founding fathers railed against excessive taxation and government being all in our business and against a class of people on it's teet. They were fundamentally against that nonsense.

They were for Liberty...Commerce where ALL benefitted from it IF they applied themselves AND Government didn't intrude on that liberty.

 

[bodecea]

Would you like to see the CBO projections of Debt-to-GDP based on the Obama 5-10-20 year plan, Stoner? I have it.

(Please say YES!)

Here is my previous post

I'll take that as 'Yes sir! Please show me how the CBO illustrates that Obama's budgeting puts us on a path to becoming a banana republic in the very near future!"

Obama Revises CBO Deficit Forecast, Predicts 110% Debt-To-GDP By End Of 2013, Worse Deficit In 2012 Than 2011 | ZeroHedge

Is your argument so weak you have to resort to selective quoting, Sniper?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

The actual problem is pandering incompetents W and Reagan, obviously. Duh. Not Obama cleaning up their messes, dupe. LOL

Reagan left us a high but manageable debt. Dubya aand Obama most certainly created a perpetual debt problem. Especially Obama.

Bush kicked off a massive campaign in the Middle east to fight terrorist !! Obama is just spending like an adolescent with his mothers credit card !!

Bush also perpetuated some of our spending nightmares. Obama is about 10X worse though. And unlike Bush, he has created huge slush funds that I find abhorrent.

 

[Steelplate]

I did not say that TJ would give his stamp approval on all of the Republicans' actions. I'm saying that he would find Obama's actions and policies abhorrent. And Obama is in the corporations pockets btw.

My point is that they are all owned by corporations.

Do you really think that Romney isn't?

Not sure this is an American government they would even recognize.

Do you think they saw corporations as citizens?

I think it's unrealistic for a candidate to win the president w/o corporate backers. I think the Constitution should be amended to deal with the issue. I can't blame Romney for not taking the same advantages Obama takes though.

But there is a major difference that the founding fathers would find appalling. The founding fathers railed against excessive taxation and government being all in our business and against a class of people on it's teet. They were fundamentally against that nonsense.

Ahhh but Romney had the superPACs first...so do you extend that same "non-blame" to Obama for having to use those admittedly sleazy resources?

 

[Lakhota]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Wow, you studied the founding fathers for a "couple hours" and now feel qualified to pass judgement on President Obama on their behalf? The founding fathers would be dumbfounded by the current mess and how it happened.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Wow, you studied the founding fathers for a "couple hours" and now feel qualified to pass judgement on President Obama on their behalf? The founding fathers would be dumbfounded by the current mess and how it happened.

Geez you libs are mindless tarts. You're like the fourth idiot to make this erroneous point. My point was that I had recently studied it. I never once said I was studying them for the first time. Stop focusing on your mindless snipes and join the discussion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

TGG is not giving credit for what he studied and who wrote the commentaries.

He is merely a sock puppet for somebody else.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

TGG is not giving credit for what he studied and who wrote the commentaries.

He is merely a sock puppet for somebody else.

I'm not going to steer away from the discussion or any other to deal with your trolling. You've been warned. If you're not going to add to the discussion then I just don't give an f what you have to say. You've had more than enough chances.

 

[Lakhota]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Wow, you studied the founding fathers for a "couple hours" and now feel qualified to pass judgement on President Obama on their behalf? The founding fathers would be dumbfounded by the current mess and how it happened.

Geez you libs are mindless tarts. You're like the fourth idiot to make this erroneous point. My point was that I had recently studied it. I never once said I was studying them for the first time. Stop focusing on your mindless snipes and join the discussion.

It's pure bullshit to speculate how the founding fathers would have felt about President Obama or previous presidents. Also, I would guess that if the founding fathers could have envisioned the future - they would have written a slightly different Constitution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

TTG:"I'm not going to steer away from the discussion or any other to deal with your trolling. You've been warned. If you're not going to add to the discussion then I just don't give an f what you have to say. You've had more than enough chances."

You are not an expert. We have already punched a couple of holes in your nonsense. Give us your source, sock doosh. You have been warned?

 

[Steelplate]

First off, they'd say...."where did all the horses go and what are these incredibly fast THINGS come from? Wow! We never would have imagined such advances....Holy cow! Did you see all the bullets their muskets can shoot all at once? What is that cloud that looks like a mushroom? Slaves running around free? In charge of White Men?

Man....maybe we should rethink our original Constitution....oh yeah....that's right. That's why we became a Democratic representative Republic and installed a Supreme Court....to adjust the Constitution to meet the needs of the people!

Thank the Creator that we thought of that....can we go back to resting in peace now?"