Fourth PP video released, it's bad

[Ernie S.]

What's stupid about that is that those same conservatives will fight tooth and nail to grant you the same protection after you are born that they want to give you before you are born. They want to protect you from being cut to pieces with a saw after you are born too.

They don't give a damn about you after you're born - your mother get's labeled a slut and a parisite on the welfare system. You're too busy defunding programs that help mothers and children.

The mother only gets labeled a slut and a parasite if she's a slut who has multiple children by multiple baby daddies. She is only labeled a parasite, because she expects others to fulfill her responsibilities for her.
Conservatives aren't about to let children starve, but we will do what we feel necessary to prevent more children being born into poverty.
If that means making living off the labor of others uncomfortable, so be it.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

She's one person.

And the president, Cecile Richards, makes two. You wouldn't think she'd have risen that high or be sent to negotiate with potential clients if she were completely off base and not knowledgeable and representative of the organization's policies.

And what exactly did she do wrong?

Well, for one, she admitted to performing the illegal partial birth abortion procedure. She admitted admitted to altering her procedure to preserve the most lucrative organs. She also explained to the sting operatives that they have to call it swapping donations instead of selling bodies to keep it tenuously legal. Despite this, she admitted there is profit being made from the trade. All of this is in the videos if you actually watched them.

 

[Coyote]

She's one person.

And the president, Cecile Richards, makes two. You wouldn't think she'd have risen that high or be sent to negotiate with potential clients if she were completely off base and not knowledgeable and representative of the organization's policies.

And what exactly did she do wrong?

Well, for one, she admitted to performing the illegal partial birth abortion procedure. She admitted admitted to altering her procedure to preserve the most lucrative organs. She also explained to the sting operatives that they have to call it swapping donations instead of selling bodies to keep it tenuously legal. Despite this, she admitted there is profit being made from the trade. All of this is in the videos if you actually watched them.

Where? Link to the quotes?

 

[flacaltenn]

Which brings me to your issue with me -- and my choice of terms for the different sides. Of course -- I can use all those terms for the players. But if anyone doesn't feel violated by the callousness and unprofessional medical detachment of these PP doctors -- I would insist that THEY are pro-Aborts. Folks who have no clue of the sensitivity required to discuss abortion and politics in the same breath..

I think you are mistaking detachment for callousness. I think if you got a bunch of oncologists together, they wouldn't be talking about what a sweet woman your Aunt Gertie is, they'd be talking about how gross her colon polyps were when they removed them.

If you can't respect that you are advocating for ending a life without some feeling attached -- you ARE a zealot fringe. And if you CAN -- you can work with the vast middle to make abortion rarer and more dignified. Learned a lot in this thread about "de-sensitizing" the topic. We get farther if we all agree to treat it with respect.

When you argue about viability, with the definition centering around survival OUTSIDE the womb, you already lost that sensitivity. Because that little baby fetus is PERFECTLY "viable" where it is -- til you end it...

Quite the contrary, I think medical providers have to have a certain level of detatchment to do their jobs. Otherwise, they'd all lose their shit after they lost too many patients. Medicine is not for the faint of heart. There's a lot of gross stuff most of us wouldn't want to deal with.

Now, when we are talking about these late abortions (not late term, since the fetus isn't coming to term), yes, you are talking about women who probably wanted the pregnancy and something went wrong. and, yes, if the Doctors talked this way in the patient's presence, that would be a real problem with professionalism.

Talking this way with what they think are fellow medical professionals intentionally trying to goad them into making these kinds of comments, and then editing them out of context... I just can't get quite as upset about that.

In this case, the "detachment" has nothing to do with "registered" patient. It has EVERYTHING to do with deviating from prescribed procedures and training to make the abortion as humane and respectful as possible FOR THE FETUS.

But even IF there is detachment (and I've spent years working in hospitals and labs - and seen some) it better not be reflected in the doctor/patient relationship. Because nobody wants a smart ass detached doctor when they are in trouble.

The stuff in those tapes could not be edited in a way to excuse those employees from their unprofessional habits that they fell into.. And it serves your cause no good for YOU to be detached from the meaning of an abortion procedure..

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

The same thing Liberals will do.

I dunno about that. I'm learning a lot from these threads. The first is that conservatives see absolutely no problem with someone for torturing a lion to death and then decapitating it and leaving its body to rot. That his lionesses will be raped pregnant after being made to watch the slaughter of their cubs completely fails to affect them in any way. Many of these people call themselves "pro-life" regardless. The second is that liberals will happily fight tooth and nail for someone's sacred right to take their baby to a chop shop and for the establishment's sacred right to sell the parts under the table as what amounts to biological scrap. They see people's children as parasites and are totally willing to do literally anything it takes to further this industry's profits, thinking nothing of approving all-American methods like harassing activists or preemptively blocking evidence from reaching trial to do so.

In all absolute honesty, the longer I stay here the happier I am to I live behind an extraordinarily well guarded fence patrolled by a lot of nice folks armed with M4s - especially since it's nowhere near any of you people. My only, sincere hope is that I can get the fuck away from this country as soon as I lose that protection.

 

[flacaltenn]

Since I am not in this game, im just sloppy I suppose. But from where I sit, the zealots on one side would have abortions AFTER delivery, and the zealots on the other side include those who believe that just masturbating is interfering with reproduction. Or condoms. So I take digs at both. Your pro choice side has been mooved off their original insane positions on choice to actually THINK about partial birth or parental consent or late term abortions. That train DID start out from the station as a pro abort train. ?.. this slow motion train wreck called the abortion debate has changed the shape of both sides in a slow and painful way.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abort. From where I sit - it seems like you are labeling all of us pro-abort. I know of few - very few, who support unlimited abortion in the third trimester and no one who supports abortion after delivery. It's like the pro-some-life crowd - and claiming they support a woman dying over terminating a pregnancy or they don't even support abortion in incest or rape. Those views are more extreme end of the spectrum and unfortunately the more extreme end has the louder voice. And that louder voice is attempting to portray the majority of abortions as "late term" through false imagery, etc to generate an anti-abortion backlash. And that is just plain wrong too.

This has been one of better "abortion" threads I've ever been in. Largely because the topic ain't about all the usual arguments of "viability" or conditions on abortions like you mentioned. It cuts to the issue of the dignity and respect for the procedure. That it entails ending a life.

My wife, about 25 years ago, went for a 2nd ultrasound at 15 weeks, and I begged out because I had been there for the previous one. She had to endure looking at a fully formed fetus with no brain and drive home alone.. Anencephaly. And she had a D & C procedure within days. I know folks who had full funerals for full term still borns and miscarriages. And this little journalistic episode taps into those moral issues of the responsibility of REALIZING what an a abortion is.

Which brings me to your issue with me -- and my choice of terms for the different sides. Of course -- I can use all those terms for the players. But if anyone doesn't feel violated by the callousness and unprofessional medical detachment of these PP doctors -- I would insist that THEY are pro-Aborts. Folks who have no clue of the sensitivity required to discuss abortion and politics in the same breath..

If you can't respect that you are advocating for ending a life without some feeling attached -- you ARE a zealot fringe. And if you CAN -- you can work with the vast middle to make abortion rarer and more dignified. Learned a lot in this thread about "de-sensitizing" the topic. We get farther if we all agree to treat it with respect.

When you argue about viability, with the definition centering around survival OUTSIDE the womb, you already lost that sensitivity. Because that little baby fetus is PERFECTLY "viable" where it is -- til you end it...

I am sorry, for what happened with you and your wife - that is probably one of the hardest things to have happen you are expecting a child

I know that I am sometimes flippant about this but I fully realize what abortion is.

I am not going to go into details and probably even talking about this will open me up to a shitload of crap from some folks here but years ago I had an abortion and yes, it was by choice. I was young, stupid, pregnant and in a poor place to be a parent and I was terrified. My boyfriend adamently did not want fatherhood. My experience with PP at the time was hardly callous - we talked about options, what an abortion entailed, how I felt about it, how I felt about parenthood. I was given time to back out if I wanted and encouraged to talk with friends or family if I needed to. It was also blessedly non-judgemental. I think I would have fallen apart then if I had been accused of being a "baby killer" or such. Afterwards, they helped to decide what birth control would be best and set me up with it (I could not afford to see a regular doctor and pay for it at the time). My experience with PP was very postiive. The experience was as positive as something that horrible can be and I was fully aware of what it entailed. Yes - it IS a blob of cells at that point, but it is a blob of cells that has the potential to become a human being. Life is unique and precious.

Then, you have people here using this doctor and what are essentially private conversations to broadbrush the entire practice. I don't think that is right either. Every group has it's outliers and to portray them as the norm in order to destroy something has done and still does huge amounts of good for women's health at a very low cost seems wrong to me.

The problem with arguing about viability - or refusing to argue about is this - how can you justify abortion? How can you say a woman has the right to terminate? And at what point? When does the baby's right supercede hers to end it?

Thanks for sharing that in return..

I'm am definitely on the side of keeping abortion as an option. And working harder and SMARTER to minimize the number. Especially after 12 weeks. There are hardly any GOOD reasons why contraceptives should NOT be over the counter with the counseling of a Reg. Pharmacist. That would grossly cut the number of abortions and end a large portion of the NEED for PP.. Side effects and mis-prescribed incidents would be far and few between for almost all YOUNG women. GP Docs dont do a lot of rechecks anyway on those prescriptions.

Your experience with PP was helpful. I don't think those videos condemn PP entirely. But the funding mechanism for PP with $$500Mill tax dollars/year going to it -- needs to be rethought. They should not be a govt sponsored monopoly that launders money back to the DNC to ensure their survival. That money ought to go to a specified pocket in MediCaid so that ANY clinic that wanted to provide those services could.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

She's one person.

And the president, Cecile Richards, makes two. You wouldn't think she'd have risen that high or be sent to negotiate with potential clients if she were completely off base and not knowledgeable and representative of the organization's policies.

And what exactly did she do wrong?

Well, for one, she admitted to performing the illegal partial birth abortion procedure. She admitted admitted to altering her procedure to preserve the most lucrative organs. She also explained to the sting operatives that they have to call it swapping donations instead of selling bodies to keep it tenuously legal. Despite this, she admitted there is profit being made from the trade. All of this is in the videos if you actually watched them.

Where? Link to the quotes?

Video 1:


Cecile Richards' response:


Video 2:


Video 3:


Video 4:

 

[flacaltenn]

She's one person.

And the president, Cecile Richards, makes two. You wouldn't think she'd have risen that high or be sent to negotiate with potential clients if she were completely off base and not knowledgeable and representative of the organization's policies.

And what exactly did she do wrong?

Well, for one, she admitted to performing the illegal partial birth abortion procedure. She admitted admitted to altering her procedure to preserve the most lucrative organs. She also explained to the sting operatives that they have to call it swapping donations instead of selling bodies to keep it tenuously legal. Despite this, she admitted there is profit being made from the trade. All of this is in the videos if you actually watched them.

Where? Link to the quotes?

Don't know about the partial birth part. But those other admissions are right there in the salad munching tape.
She literally said that she plans her day around planning the materials she can harvest from the consent cases. And changes the "preferred" techniques to suit the "order".. According to HHS -- she's not even supposed to KNOW which cases are "tissue consent" cases...

You can't mangle that in editing..

 

[hadit]

What's stupid about that is that those same conservatives will fight tooth and nail to grant you the same protection after you are born that they want to give you before you are born. They want to protect you from being cut to pieces with a saw after you are born too.

They don't give a damn about you after you're born - your mother get's labeled a slut and a parisite on the welfare system. You're too busy defunding programs that help mothers and children.

Take a saw to a baby after he/she has been born and see what conservatives do to you.

The same thing Liberals will do.

I didn't say they wouldn't. Just pointing out how absolutely absurd, stupid, and idiotic is the claim that conservatives don't care about anyone after their born.

 

[hadit]

Since I am not in this game, im just sloppy I suppose. But from where I sit, the zealots on one side would have abortions AFTER delivery, and the zealots on the other side include those who believe that just masturbating is interfering with reproduction. Or condoms. So I take digs at both. Your pro choice side has been mooved off their original insane positions on choice to actually THINK about partial birth or parental consent or late term abortions. That train DID start out from the station as a pro abort train. ?.. this slow motion train wreck called the abortion debate has changed the shape of both sides in a slow and painful way.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abort. From where I sit - it seems like you are labeling all of us pro-abort. I know of few - very few, who support unlimited abortion in the third trimester and no one who supports abortion after delivery. It's like the pro-some-life crowd - and claiming they support a woman dying over terminating a pregnancy or they don't even support abortion in incest or rape. Those views are more extreme end of the spectrum and unfortunately the more extreme end has the louder voice. And that louder voice is attempting to portray the majority of abortions as "late term" through false imagery, etc to generate an anti-abortion backlash. And that is just plain wrong too.

This has been one of better "abortion" threads I've ever been in. Largely because the topic ain't about all the usual arguments of "viability" or conditions on abortions like you mentioned. It cuts to the issue of the dignity and respect for the procedure. That it entails ending a life.

My wife, about 25 years ago, went for a 2nd ultrasound at 15 weeks, and I begged out because I had been there for the previous one. She had to endure looking at a fully formed fetus with no brain and drive home alone.. Anencephaly. And she had a D & C procedure within days. I know folks who had full funerals for full term still borns and miscarriages. And this little journalistic episode taps into those moral issues of the responsibility of REALIZING what an a abortion is.

Which brings me to your issue with me -- and my choice of terms for the different sides. Of course -- I can use all those terms for the players. But if anyone doesn't feel violated by the callousness and unprofessional medical detachment of these PP doctors -- I would insist that THEY are pro-Aborts. Folks who have no clue of the sensitivity required to discuss abortion and politics in the same breath..

If you can't respect that you are advocating for ending a life without some feeling attached -- you ARE a zealot fringe. And if you CAN -- you can work with the vast middle to make abortion rarer and more dignified. Learned a lot in this thread about "de-sensitizing" the topic. We get farther if we all agree to treat it with respect.

When you argue about viability, with the definition centering around survival OUTSIDE the womb, you already lost that sensitivity. Because that little baby fetus is PERFECTLY "viable" where it is -- til you end it...

I am sorry, for what happened with you and your wife - that is probably one of the hardest things to have happen you are expecting a child

I know that I am sometimes flippant about this but I fully realize what abortion is.

I am not going to go into details and probably even talking about this will open me up to a shitload of crap from some folks here but years ago I had an abortion and yes, it was by choice. I was young, stupid, pregnant and in a poor place to be a parent and I was terrified. My boyfriend adamently did not want fatherhood. My experience with PP at the time was hardly callous - we talked about options, what an abortion entailed, how I felt about it, how I felt about parenthood. I was given time to back out if I wanted and encouraged to talk with friends or family if I needed to. It was also blessedly non-judgemental. I think I would have fallen apart then if I had been accused of being a "baby killer" or such. Afterwards, they helped to decide what birth control would be best and set me up with it (I could not afford to see a regular doctor and pay for it at the time). My experience with PP was very postiive. The experience was as positive as something that horrible can be and I was fully aware of what it entailed. Yes - it IS a blob of cells at that point, but it is a blob of cells that has the potential to become a human being. Life is unique and precious.

Then, you have people here using this doctor and what are essentially private conversations to broadbrush the entire practice. I don't think that is right either. Every group has it's outliers and to portray them as the norm in order to destroy something has done and still does huge amounts of good for women's health at a very low cost seems wrong to me.

The problem with arguing about viability - or refusing to argue about is this - how can you justify abortion? How can you say a woman has the right to terminate? And at what point? When does the baby's right supercede hers to end it?

Thanks for sharing that in return..

I'm am definitely on the side of keeping abortion as an option. And working harder and SMARTER to minimize the number. Especially after 12 weeks. There are hardly any GOOD reasons why contraceptives should NOT be over the counter with the counseling of a Reg. Pharmacist. That would grossly cut the number of abortions and end a large portion of the NEED for PP.. Side effects and mis-prescribed incidents would be far and few between for almost all YOUNG women. GP Docs dont do a lot of rechecks anyway on those prescriptions.

Your experience with PP was helpful. I don't think those videos condemn PP entirely. But the funding mechanism for PP with $$500Mill tax dollars/year going to it -- needs to be rethought. They should not be a govt sponsored monopoly that launders money back to the DNC to ensure their survival. That money ought to go to a specified pocket in MediCaid so that ANY clinic that wanted to provide those services could.

Not so sure more contraceptives = fewer abortions. There are a LOT more contraceptives FAR more readily available today than there ever have been, and abortion rates remain nearly as high as they ever have been. One would think that as more contraceptives become more available, the abortion rates would drop.

 

[Coyote]

Since I am not in this game, im just sloppy I suppose. But from where I sit, the zealots on one side would have abortions AFTER delivery, and the zealots on the other side include those who believe that just masturbating is interfering with reproduction. Or condoms. So I take digs at both. Your pro choice side has been mooved off their original insane positions on choice to actually THINK about partial birth or parental consent or late term abortions. That train DID start out from the station as a pro abort train. ?.. this slow motion train wreck called the abortion debate has changed the shape of both sides in a slow and painful way.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abort. From where I sit - it seems like you are labeling all of us pro-abort. I know of few - very few, who support unlimited abortion in the third trimester and no one who supports abortion after delivery. It's like the pro-some-life crowd - and claiming they support a woman dying over terminating a pregnancy or they don't even support abortion in incest or rape. Those views are more extreme end of the spectrum and unfortunately the more extreme end has the louder voice. And that louder voice is attempting to portray the majority of abortions as "late term" through false imagery, etc to generate an anti-abortion backlash. And that is just plain wrong too.

This has been one of better "abortion" threads I've ever been in. Largely because the topic ain't about all the usual arguments of "viability" or conditions on abortions like you mentioned. It cuts to the issue of the dignity and respect for the procedure. That it entails ending a life.

My wife, about 25 years ago, went for a 2nd ultrasound at 15 weeks, and I begged out because I had been there for the previous one. She had to endure looking at a fully formed fetus with no brain and drive home alone.. Anencephaly. And she had a D & C procedure within days. I know folks who had full funerals for full term still borns and miscarriages. And this little journalistic episode taps into those moral issues of the responsibility of REALIZING what an a abortion is.

Which brings me to your issue with me -- and my choice of terms for the different sides. Of course -- I can use all those terms for the players. But if anyone doesn't feel violated by the callousness and unprofessional medical detachment of these PP doctors -- I would insist that THEY are pro-Aborts. Folks who have no clue of the sensitivity required to discuss abortion and politics in the same breath..

If you can't respect that you are advocating for ending a life without some feeling attached -- you ARE a zealot fringe. And if you CAN -- you can work with the vast middle to make abortion rarer and more dignified. Learned a lot in this thread about "de-sensitizing" the topic. We get farther if we all agree to treat it with respect.

When you argue about viability, with the definition centering around survival OUTSIDE the womb, you already lost that sensitivity. Because that little baby fetus is PERFECTLY "viable" where it is -- til you end it...

I am sorry, for what happened with you and your wife - that is probably one of the hardest things to have happen you are expecting a child

I know that I am sometimes flippant about this but I fully realize what abortion is.

I am not going to go into details and probably even talking about this will open me up to a shitload of crap from some folks here but years ago I had an abortion and yes, it was by choice. I was young, stupid, pregnant and in a poor place to be a parent and I was terrified. My boyfriend adamently did not want fatherhood. My experience with PP at the time was hardly callous - we talked about options, what an abortion entailed, how I felt about it, how I felt about parenthood. I was given time to back out if I wanted and encouraged to talk with friends or family if I needed to. It was also blessedly non-judgemental. I think I would have fallen apart then if I had been accused of being a "baby killer" or such. Afterwards, they helped to decide what birth control would be best and set me up with it (I could not afford to see a regular doctor and pay for it at the time). My experience with PP was very postiive. The experience was as positive as something that horrible can be and I was fully aware of what it entailed. Yes - it IS a blob of cells at that point, but it is a blob of cells that has the potential to become a human being. Life is unique and precious.

Then, you have people here using this doctor and what are essentially private conversations to broadbrush the entire practice. I don't think that is right either. Every group has it's outliers and to portray them as the norm in order to destroy something has done and still does huge amounts of good for women's health at a very low cost seems wrong to me.

The problem with arguing about viability - or refusing to argue about is this - how can you justify abortion? How can you say a woman has the right to terminate? And at what point? When does the baby's right supercede hers to end it?

Thanks for sharing that in return..

I'm am definitely on the side of keeping abortion as an option. And working harder and SMARTER to minimize the number. Especially after 12 weeks. There are hardly any GOOD reasons why contraceptives should NOT be over the counter with the counseling of a Reg. Pharmacist. That would grossly cut the number of abortions and end a large portion of the NEED for PP.. Side effects and mis-prescribed incidents would be far and few between for almost all YOUNG women. GP Docs dont do a lot of rechecks anyway on those prescriptions.

Your experience with PP was helpful. I don't think those videos condemn PP entirely. But the funding mechanism for PP with $$500Mill tax dollars/year going to it -- needs to be rethought. They should not be a govt sponsored monopoly that launders money back to the DNC to ensure their survival. That money ought to go to a specified pocket in MediCaid so that ANY clinic that wanted to provide those services could.

I agree with you on the contraception - I strongly support free contraception, over the counter also comprehensive science-based sexual education for teens. The other thing is ready availability of Plan B - over the counter. Anything that can make later abortion rare. I still support funding of PP because even over the counter - how affordable will it be? There are a lot of people who don't see doctors regularly, don't have health insurance (even with Obamacare they won't) and depend on cheap clinics for cancer screenings, birth control etc. The fact that over 90% of PP's work is non-abortion related speaks to what is needed.

I think PP has become a political "bogeyman". Texas, through a process of legislation and defunding has lost many of it's PP clinics and the results aren't good for many women in that state.

Charts This Is What Happens When You Defund Planned Parenthood Mother Jones

 

[Coyote]

Since I am not in this game, im just sloppy I suppose. But from where I sit, the zealots on one side would have abortions AFTER delivery, and the zealots on the other side include those who believe that just masturbating is interfering with reproduction. Or condoms. So I take digs at both. Your pro choice side has been mooved off their original insane positions on choice to actually THINK about partial birth or parental consent or late term abortions. That train DID start out from the station as a pro abort train. ?.. this slow motion train wreck called the abortion debate has changed the shape of both sides in a slow and painful way.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abort. From where I sit - it seems like you are labeling all of us pro-abort. I know of few - very few, who support unlimited abortion in the third trimester and no one who supports abortion after delivery. It's like the pro-some-life crowd - and claiming they support a woman dying over terminating a pregnancy or they don't even support abortion in incest or rape. Those views are more extreme end of the spectrum and unfortunately the more extreme end has the louder voice. And that louder voice is attempting to portray the majority of abortions as "late term" through false imagery, etc to generate an anti-abortion backlash. And that is just plain wrong too.

This has been one of better "abortion" threads I've ever been in. Largely because the topic ain't about all the usual arguments of "viability" or conditions on abortions like you mentioned. It cuts to the issue of the dignity and respect for the procedure. That it entails ending a life.

My wife, about 25 years ago, went for a 2nd ultrasound at 15 weeks, and I begged out because I had been there for the previous one. She had to endure looking at a fully formed fetus with no brain and drive home alone.. Anencephaly. And she had a D & C procedure within days. I know folks who had full funerals for full term still borns and miscarriages. And this little journalistic episode taps into those moral issues of the responsibility of REALIZING what an a abortion is.

Which brings me to your issue with me -- and my choice of terms for the different sides. Of course -- I can use all those terms for the players. But if anyone doesn't feel violated by the callousness and unprofessional medical detachment of these PP doctors -- I would insist that THEY are pro-Aborts. Folks who have no clue of the sensitivity required to discuss abortion and politics in the same breath..

If you can't respect that you are advocating for ending a life without some feeling attached -- you ARE a zealot fringe. And if you CAN -- you can work with the vast middle to make abortion rarer and more dignified. Learned a lot in this thread about "de-sensitizing" the topic. We get farther if we all agree to treat it with respect.

When you argue about viability, with the definition centering around survival OUTSIDE the womb, you already lost that sensitivity. Because that little baby fetus is PERFECTLY "viable" where it is -- til you end it...

I am sorry, for what happened with you and your wife - that is probably one of the hardest things to have happen you are expecting a child

I know that I am sometimes flippant about this but I fully realize what abortion is.

I am not going to go into details and probably even talking about this will open me up to a shitload of crap from some folks here but years ago I had an abortion and yes, it was by choice. I was young, stupid, pregnant and in a poor place to be a parent and I was terrified. My boyfriend adamently did not want fatherhood. My experience with PP at the time was hardly callous - we talked about options, what an abortion entailed, how I felt about it, how I felt about parenthood. I was given time to back out if I wanted and encouraged to talk with friends or family if I needed to. It was also blessedly non-judgemental. I think I would have fallen apart then if I had been accused of being a "baby killer" or such. Afterwards, they helped to decide what birth control would be best and set me up with it (I could not afford to see a regular doctor and pay for it at the time). My experience with PP was very postiive. The experience was as positive as something that horrible can be and I was fully aware of what it entailed. Yes - it IS a blob of cells at that point, but it is a blob of cells that has the potential to become a human being. Life is unique and precious.

Then, you have people here using this doctor and what are essentially private conversations to broadbrush the entire practice. I don't think that is right either. Every group has it's outliers and to portray them as the norm in order to destroy something has done and still does huge amounts of good for women's health at a very low cost seems wrong to me.

The problem with arguing about viability - or refusing to argue about is this - how can you justify abortion? How can you say a woman has the right to terminate? And at what point? When does the baby's right supercede hers to end it?

Thanks for sharing that in return..

I'm am definitely on the side of keeping abortion as an option. And working harder and SMARTER to minimize the number. Especially after 12 weeks. There are hardly any GOOD reasons why contraceptives should NOT be over the counter with the counseling of a Reg. Pharmacist. That would grossly cut the number of abortions and end a large portion of the NEED for PP.. Side effects and mis-prescribed incidents would be far and few between for almost all YOUNG women. GP Docs dont do a lot of rechecks anyway on those prescriptions.

Your experience with PP was helpful. I don't think those videos condemn PP entirely. But the funding mechanism for PP with $$500Mill tax dollars/year going to it -- needs to be rethought. They should not be a govt sponsored monopoly that launders money back to the DNC to ensure their survival. That money ought to go to a specified pocket in MediCaid so that ANY clinic that wanted to provide those services could.

Not so sure more contraceptives = fewer abortions. There are a LOT more contraceptives FAR more readily available today than there ever have been, and abortion rates remain nearly as high as they ever have been. One would think that as more contraceptives become more available, the abortion rates would drop.

Abortion rates are at their lowest point since 1973: Study Abortion rate at lowest point since 1973 - The Washington Post

 

[Coyote]

She's one person.

And the president, Cecile Richards, makes two. You wouldn't think she'd have risen that high or be sent to negotiate with potential clients if she were completely off base and not knowledgeable and representative of the organization's policies.

And what exactly did she do wrong?

Well, for one, she admitted to performing the illegal partial birth abortion procedure. She admitted admitted to altering her procedure to preserve the most lucrative organs. She also explained to the sting operatives that they have to call it swapping donations instead of selling bodies to keep it tenuously legal. Despite this, she admitted there is profit being made from the trade. All of this is in the videos if you actually watched them.

Where? Link to the quotes?

Video 1:


Cecile Richards' response:


Video 2:


Video 3:


Video 4:

All you are doing is providing 3 heavily edited videos and one entire length video and expecting me to go through them to attempt to find the quotes.

Transcripts are available.

Here is the link: Investigative Footage The Center for Medical Progress

 

[Valerie]

Abortion rates are at their lowest point since 1973: Study Abortion rate at lowest point since 1973 - The Washington Post

planned parenthood success...? oh my!


what would delusional finger waggers do if they couldn't act holier than thou on behalf of government intrusion?

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

All you are doing is providing 3 heavily edited videos and one entire length video and expecting me to go through them to attempt to find the quotes.

There is a cut down summary version and an unedited full version released for each video. I chose the much longer "FULL FOOTAGE" version for each. Unless you take PP's word that the unedited videos are also heavily edited, in which case I can't really help you. It just becomes he said, she said at that point.

 

[Coyote]

She's one person.

And the president, Cecile Richards, makes two. You wouldn't think she'd have risen that high or be sent to negotiate with potential clients if she were completely off base and not knowledgeable and representative of the organization's policies.

And what exactly did she do wrong?

Well, for one, she admitted to performing the illegal partial birth abortion procedure. She admitted admitted to altering her procedure to preserve the most lucrative organs. She also explained to the sting operatives that they have to call it swapping donations instead of selling bodies to keep it tenuously legal. Despite this, she admitted there is profit being made from the trade. All of this is in the videos if you actually watched them.

Where? Link to the quotes?

Don't know about the partial birth part. But those other admissions are right there in the salad munching tape.
She literally said that she plans her day around planning the materials she can harvest from the consent cases. And changes the "preferred" techniques to suit the "order".. According to HHS -- she's not even supposed to KNOW which cases are "tissue consent" cases...

You can't mangle that in editing..

Cecile Richards? I would like to see it in the written transcript and yes - you can mangle it in editing.

 

[Coyote]

What's stupid about that is that those same conservatives will fight tooth and nail to grant you the same protection after you are born that they want to give you before you are born. They want to protect you from being cut to pieces with a saw after you are born too.

They don't give a damn about you after you're born - your mother get's labeled a slut and a parisite on the welfare system. You're too busy defunding programs that help mothers and children.

Take a saw to a baby after he/she has been born and see what conservatives do to you.

The same thing Liberals will do.

I didn't say they wouldn't. Just pointing out how absolutely absurd, stupid, and idiotic is the claim that conservatives don't care about anyone after their born.

It's no more absurb or stupid or idiotic as the claim that liberals don't care about the baby before it's born.

 

[hadit]

Abortion rates are at their lowest point since 1973: Study Abortion rate at lowest point since 1973 - The Washington Post

planned parenthood success...? oh my!


what would delusional finger waggers do if they couldn't act holier than thou on behalf of government intrusion?

The study ignored the effect of common sense restrictions on abortion.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

It's no more absurb or stupid or idiotic as the claim that liberals don't care about the baby before it's born.

You just became the first liberal I've ever in my 23 years seen admit without any qualification or doublespeak that she is, in fact, a baby before he's born. What have I heard from the rest? "Let him die" at best. Often including tortured explanations of how he can't really die yet anyway because he's not alive and won't be until the personhood fairy waves her magic wand over his crowning head.

Cecile Richards? I would like to see it in the written transcript and yes - you can mangle it in editing.

You don't accept that the videos the CMP claims to be the unedited originals aren't "heavily edited"*. Instead you want to see the written transcripts of the videos... which would have also been created by the CMP. You do realize why I'm having a hard time understanding this, right?

*Which is the term the media and left wing blogosphere universally uses to refer to the shortened summary videos CMP openly admits were edited by definition.

 

[Coyote]

Abortion rates are at their lowest point since 1973: Study Abortion rate at lowest point since 1973 - The Washington Post

planned parenthood success...? oh my!


what would delusional finger waggers do if they couldn't act holier than thou on behalf of government intrusion?

The study ignored the effect of common sense restrictions on abortion.

Do you mean legislative efforts? Is that what you call "common sense"?