Gallup: Government Too Powerful

[Mac1958]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?

[
Liberals exploited it to get votes.

You don't REALLY think liberals give a damn about minorities, do you?



They also have far more racial homogeneity than we do.
The US is more diverse...and with a much larger population.

What you think succeeds there will not necessarily succeed here.

You missed a great deal. Welfare rewards black mothers for being single and having more kids. Plus, Affirmative Action tells blacks they can't succeed without the help of white liberals.


.

I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?

There is a significant difference between racial comments and racist comments. Do we not know this?

In that post, I see indictments of Welfare and Affirmative Action, not comments that blacks are inferior or evil.

At some point, it would be helpful if folks could actually address issues instead of screaming "racist" in an effort to derail the conversation and put their target on the defensive.

If he's wrong, let's discuss how and why. That would be an interesting conversation, if we would just allow the conversation to happen. Perhaps that would begin a healing process.

Screaming "racist" only increases animosity.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?

[
Liberals exploited it to get votes.

You don't REALLY think liberals give a damn about minorities, do you?



They also have far more racial homogeneity than we do.
The US is more diverse...and with a much larger population.

What you think succeeds there will not necessarily succeed here.

You missed a great deal. Welfare rewards black mothers for being single and having more kids. Plus, Affirmative Action tells blacks they can't succeed without the help of white liberals.


.

I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?

There is a significant difference between racial comments and racist comments. Do we not know this?

In that post, I see indictments of Welfare and Affirmative Action, not comments that blacks are inferior or evil.

At some point, it would be helpful if folks could actually address issues instead of screaming "racist" in an effort to derail the conversation and put their target on the defensive.

If he's wrong, let's discuss how and why. That would be an interesting conversation, if we would just allow the conversation to happen. Perhaps that would begin a healing process.

Screaming "racist" only increases animosity.

.

The last thing I worry about is the animosity of a knuckle-dragging, hateful asshole like Daveman. Seriously, I wear his animosity as a badge of honor. He is simply such a horrible human being, and he probably doesn't realize it.

Just because he blames "racial homogenity" for why we can't be more like Germany and Japan instead of saying, "it can't work because of them N****rs", doesn't make him acceptable.

We don't have massive violence in this country because of "those people". We have massive violence because we have more guns than people and no control over who has them.

It's not just that he's wrong, it's that his wrongness has racial animus.

For instance, let's take his statement about Affirmative Action. Leaving to the side for the moment that the primary beneficiaries of Affirmative Action have been WHITE WOMEN,

Sally Kohn: Affirmative Action Helps White Women More Than Others | TIME.com


Dave ignores the fact that there really, really is racial animus in hiring.

They did a study a few years back where they sent out resumes with typical white names like "John" and "Mary" and resumes with the same background and qualifications with names like "Jamal" and "Shanice".

'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

Now maybe the guy is just clueless how he sounds much of the time. But honetly he comes off kind of like this guy...

"Yah, See, Edith, them Nips and Krauts don't have the violence because they don't have the coloreds we have".

 

[Politico]

Like I said. Thank God for Gallup. How would you sheeple know what to do otherwise......

Carry on......

 

[Vox]

[

yes, it was. as a government entity it was the main problem.

If your attitude is "Government bad", and you will always find a way to blame government for something, I guess you can.

But, no, the 2008 recession was caused because guys on Wall Street gamed the system to make themselves richer, and held us all hostage to get a bailout.

It was a combination of factors. And Wall street is as guilty as the government inefficiency.
But it is those who are responsible to oversee both the government and the Wall street, who are the most responsible and therefore I blame dems most of all - that is THEIR fault.

government is a necessary evil. it is necessary, but it is evil, nevertheless.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

[

Bush is as far from conservative as obabble is from a moderate.
And I have no problem with Bush whatsoever - he was a much better president than we have now. what is now - is a disaster.

Bush was more of a "conservative" than Reagan was.

Reagan gave UNCONDITIONAL Amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens. Bush tried to give them a VERY CONDITIONAL amnesty, and couldn't get that passed.

Reagan appointed moderates to two of his three SCOTUS appointments. Bush appointed conservatives to both of his.

Reagan raised taxes after cutting them. Bush would never do that.

And sorry, look at Bush's record.

2 Recessions, including the worst on in 80 years.
A War based on a LIE, costing 5000 American lives and a trillion dollars.
A war that was so ineptly carried out, the criminals of 9/11 got away with their lives.
A major city wiped off the map due to poor disaster preparation.


You can criticize Obama, and I have, but frankly, the record of fuckups on Bush's watch are unrivalled.

Which Bush are you talking about? No matter, Reagan is the greatest conservative president.

 

[daveman]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?

[
Liberals exploited it to get votes.

You don't REALLY think liberals give a damn about minorities, do you?



They also have far more racial homogeneity than we do.
The US is more diverse...and with a much larger population.

What you think succeeds there will not necessarily succeed here.

You missed a great deal. Welfare rewards black mothers for being single and having more kids. Plus, Affirmative Action tells blacks they can't succeed without the help of white liberals.


.

I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?

Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

 

[daveman]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?



I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?

There is a significant difference between racial comments and racist comments. Do we not know this?

In that post, I see indictments of Welfare and Affirmative Action, not comments that blacks are inferior or evil.

At some point, it would be helpful if folks could actually address issues instead of screaming "racist" in an effort to derail the conversation and put their target on the defensive.

If he's wrong, let's discuss how and why. That would be an interesting conversation, if we would just allow the conversation to happen. Perhaps that would begin a healing process.

Screaming "racist" only increases animosity.

.

The last thing I worry about is the animosity of a knuckle-dragging, hateful asshole like Daveman. Seriously, I wear his animosity as a badge of honor. He is simply such a horrible human being, and he probably doesn't realize it.

Just because he blames "racial homogenity" for why we can't be more like Germany and Japan instead of saying, "it can't work because of them N****rs", doesn't make him acceptable.

We don't have massive violence in this country because of "those people". We have massive violence because we have more guns than people and no control over who has them.

It's not just that he's wrong, it's that his wrongness has racial animus.

For instance, let's take his statement about Affirmative Action. Leaving to the side for the moment that the primary beneficiaries of Affirmative Action have been WHITE WOMEN,

Sally Kohn: Affirmative Action Helps White Women More Than Others | TIME.com


Dave ignores the fact that there really, really is racial animus in hiring.

They did a study a few years back where they sent out resumes with typical white names like "John" and "Mary" and resumes with the same background and qualifications with names like "Jamal" and "Shanice".

'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

Now maybe the guy is just clueless how he sounds much of the time. But honetly he comes off kind of like this guy...

"Yah, See, Edith, them Nips and Krauts don't have the violence because they don't have the coloreds we have".

I blamed nothing on blacks.

I blame it on liberals.

Dumbass.

 

[Unkotare]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?



I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?

There is a significant difference between racial comments and racist comments. Do we not know this?

In that post, I see indictments of Welfare and Affirmative Action, not comments that blacks are inferior or evil.

At some point, it would be helpful if folks could actually address issues instead of screaming "racist" in an effort to derail the conversation and put their target on the defensive.

If he's wrong, let's discuss how and why. That would be an interesting conversation, if we would just allow the conversation to happen. Perhaps that would begin a healing process.

Screaming "racist" only increases animosity.

.

The last thing I worry about is the animosity of a knuckle-dragging, hateful asshole like Daveman. ]

= you can't address the issues and you know it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

.

Well, this is a nice way to start the day:

Americans' Belief That Gov't Is Too Powerful at Record Level

It's now 60 to 32.

We're clearly moving towards the more centralized bureaucracy that the Left covets, but it's nice to see that the narcissistic thugs and liars in D.C. have not yet taken over the American psyche.

.

Do you think the federal government today -- [ROTATED: has too much power, has about the right amount of power, or has too little power]?

The question is clearly poorly worded and too vague, rendering any results meaningless.

It’s unfortunate the poll didn’t ask, for example, if the American people understand that the Federal government and the people are one in the same, that it’s ignorant idiocy to perceive both as separate entities. That the Federal government exists at the behest of the American people, and it’s solely the responsibility of the American people to address problems they perceive concerning the Federal government.

It’s also unfortunate the poll didn’t ask if the American people understand the role the Constitution, its case law, and the Federal courts play with regard to concerns about the Federal government being ‘too powerful,’ where they might seek relief from alleged government abuse of their civil liberties in those same Federal courts.

And it’s unfortunate the poll didn’t ask if the American people understand that it’s ridiculous nonsense to infer from the polling data that “[w]e're clearly moving towards the more centralized bureaucracy that the Left covets,” when in fact it’s conservatives and others on the right who are the advocates of authoritarianism, hostile to diversity and individual liberty.

Whining about the Federal government being ‘too powerful’ is ignorant, naïve, and simplistic absent the appropriate context of the actual relationship between the Federal government and the American people with a comprehensive understanding of the role our civil liberties play, and the Constitutional jurisprudence predicated on those fundamental rights.

 

[daveman]

.

Well, this is a nice way to start the day:

Americans' Belief That Gov't Is Too Powerful at Record Level

It's now 60 to 32.

We're clearly moving towards the more centralized bureaucracy that the Left covets, but it's nice to see that the narcissistic thugs and liars in D.C. have not yet taken over the American psyche.

.

Do you think the federal government today -- [ROTATED: has too much power, has about the right amount of power, or has too little power]?

The question is clearly poorly worded and too vague, rendering any results meaningless.

It’s unfortunate the poll didn’t ask, for example, if the American people understand that the Federal government and the people are one in the same, that it’s ignorant idiocy to perceive both as separate entities. That the Federal government exists at the behest of the American people, and it’s solely the responsibility of the American people to address problems they perceive concerning the Federal government.

It’s also unfortunate the poll didn’t ask if the American people understand the role the Constitution, its case law, and the Federal courts play with regard to concerns about the Federal government being ‘too powerful,’ where they might seek relief from alleged government abuse of their civil liberties in those same Federal courts.

And it’s unfortunate the poll didn’t ask if the American people understand that it’s ridiculous nonsense to infer from the polling data that “[w]e're clearly moving towards the more centralized bureaucracy that the Left covets,” when in fact it’s conservatives and others on the right who are the advocates of authoritarianism, hostile to diversity and individual liberty.

Whining about the Federal government being ‘too powerful’ is ignorant, naïve, and simplistic absent the appropriate context of the actual relationship between the Federal government and the American people with a comprehensive understanding of the role our civil liberties play, and the Constitutional jurisprudence predicated on those fundamental rights.

Ahhh. So only people who truly understand agree that Government (Peace Be Upon It) is good and righteous and holy. All others are ignorant heretics.

Or maybe it's like this paraphrase of Reagan:

How do you tell a Statist? Well, it's someone who supports bureaucracy. How do you tell an anti-Statist? It's someone who understands bureaucracy.

 

[The T]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?

[
Liberals exploited it to get votes.

You don't REALLY think liberals give a damn about minorities, do you?



They also have far more racial homogeneity than we do.
The US is more diverse...and with a much larger population.

What you think succeeds there will not necessarily succeed here.

You missed a great deal. Welfare rewards black mothers for being single and having more kids. Plus, Affirmative Action tells blacks they can't succeed without the help of white liberals.


.

I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?

Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

And to secure power over others. progressives have it down pat. What worries me are the dumbmasses that buy into the rhetoric...seems the intelligent, the thinking are outnumbered BY the dumbmasses

 

[JoeB131]

[
Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

No, guy, liberals insist that unless you make the white guys who do the hiring play fair, they aren't going to hire black folks.

Everyone is NOT born with the same oppurtunities. Some kid on the west side does not have the same oppurtunities Paris Hilton has.

As far as who played racial politics... let's look at that.

Nixon's "Southern Strategy" to pick up white votes in the South after the Civil Rights Act was passed.
Reagan invokation of an imaginary "Welfare Queen".
Bush-41 using the "Willie Horton" ads to scare white folks into being scared that Dukakis was soft on crime.
Jesse Helms using the "White Hands" ad to complain about affirmative action. (Someone needs to tell Jesse that white women get more out of AA).
Corker using the "Playboy Mansion" ad with a white woman telling his black opponent to "Call me!"

In short, the GOP for DECADES used white fear and resentment to get white folks to vote against their own economic interests.

Except now it's backfired. They can't get minority votes to save their lives now.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

[
Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

No, guy, liberals insist that unless you make the white guys who do the hiring play fair, they aren't going to hire black folks.

Everyone is NOT born with the same oppurtunities. Some kid on the west side does not have the same oppurtunities Paris Hilton has.

As far as who played racial politics... let's look at that.

Nixon's "Southern Strategy" to pick up white votes in the South after the Civil Rights Act was passed.
Reagan invokation of an imaginary "Welfare Queen".
Bush-41 using the "Willie Horton" ads to scare white folks into being scared that Dukakis was soft on crime.
Jesse Helms using the "White Hands" ad to complain about affirmative action. (Someone needs to tell Jesse that white women get more out of AA).
Corker using the "Playboy Mansion" ad with a white woman telling his black opponent to "Call me!"

In short, the GOP for DECADES used fear by whites and resentment to get white folks to vote against their own economic interests.

Except now it's backfired. They can't get minority votes to save their lives now.

fixed

Who are they? You rambled so much, I can't tell.

 

[daveman]

[
Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

No, guy, liberals insist that unless you make the white guys who do the hiring play fair, they aren't going to hire black folks.

Everyone is NOT born with the same oppurtunities. Some kid on the west side does not have the same oppurtunities Paris Hilton has.

Kids work their way out of the west side every day -- despite the insistence by white liberals that they can't.

Despite YOUR insistence that they can't.

Why do you have so little faith in blacks?

As far as who played racial politics... let's look at that.

Nixon's "Southern Strategy" to pick up white votes in the South after the Civil Rights Act was passed.
Reagan invokation of an imaginary "Welfare Queen".
Bush-41 using the "Willie Horton" ads to scare white folks into being scared that Dukakis was soft on crime.
Jesse Helms using the "White Hands" ad to complain about affirmative action. (Someone needs to tell Jesse that white women get more out of AA).
Corker using the "Playboy Mansion" ad with a white woman telling his black opponent to "Call me!"

In short, the GOP for DECADES used white fear and resentment to get white folks to vote against their own economic interests.

Except now it's backfired. They can't get minority votes to save their lives now.

Still bitterly clinging to the "Southern Strategy" revisionist history, I see.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

No, guy, liberals insist that unless you make the white guys who do the hiring play fair, they aren't going to hire black folks.

Everyone is NOT born with the same oppurtunities. Some kid on the west side does not have the same oppurtunities Paris Hilton has.

As far as who played racial politics... let's look at that.

Nixon's "Southern Strategy" to pick up white votes in the South after the Civil Rights Act was passed.
Reagan invokation of an imaginary "Welfare Queen".
Bush-41 using the "Willie Horton" ads to scare white folks into being scared that Dukakis was soft on crime.
Jesse Helms using the "White Hands" ad to complain about affirmative action. (Someone needs to tell Jesse that white women get more out of AA).
Corker using the "Playboy Mansion" ad with a white woman telling his black opponent to "Call me!"

In short, the GOP for DECADES used fear by whites and resentment to get white folks to vote against their own economic interests.

Except now it's backfired. They can't get minority votes to save their lives now.

fixed

Who are they? You rambled so much, I can't tell.

Get someone to explain the big words to you, I'm really kind of tired.

I'm not sure if you are a troll or just a high-functioning retarded person.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Nothing racist about my statements. What's racist is the liberal attitudes that believe those things are true, and the programs and policies derived from them.

Everyone in this nation is born with the same opportunities to succeed. Liberals insist black people are incapable of succeeding without help.

That's nonsense, of course. It's playing racial politics to secure votes.

No, guy, liberals insist that unless you make the white guys who do the hiring play fair, they aren't going to hire black folks.

Everyone is NOT born with the same oppurtunities. Some kid on the west side does not have the same oppurtunities Paris Hilton has.

Kids work their way out of the west side every day -- despite the insistence by white liberals that they can't.

Despite YOUR insistence that they can't.

Why do you have so little faith in blacks?

White liberals insist no such thing, Archie.

Reality time. No one gets ANYWHERE on their own. There was always a teacher, a boss, a co-worker, a government official who helped you or cut you a break at a key time. All Affirmative Action does is give a few more of those hands to minorities. And White Women. But you never get upset about Affirmative Action helping White Women. Why is that?

(Oh, wait, we know.)

[

As far as who played racial politics... let's look at that.

Nixon's "Southern Strategy" to pick up white votes in the South after the Civil Rights Act was passed.
Reagan invokation of an imaginary "Welfare Queen".
Bush-41 using the "Willie Horton" ads to scare white folks into being scared that Dukakis was soft on crime.
Jesse Helms using the "White Hands" ad to complain about affirmative action. (Someone needs to tell Jesse that white women get more out of AA).
Corker using the "Playboy Mansion" ad with a white woman telling his black opponent to "Call me!"

In short, the GOP for DECADES used white fear and resentment to get white folks to vote against their own economic interests.

Except now it's backfired. They can't get minority votes to save their lives now.

Still bitterly clinging to the "Southern Strategy" revisionist history, I see.

You mean things Nixon's own people have admitted.

From Lee Atwater-

Exclusive: Lee Atwater?s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy | The Nation

You start out in 1954 by saying, “"“n****r”—“n****r”—“n****r”—.” By 1968 you can’t say “n****r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than ““n****r” -

 

[Mac1958]

.

Joe, I'm having a little trouble locating the thread in which Daveman avoided disagreeing with "Affirmative Action helping white women".

Could you link that for me? Thanks.

.

 

[JoeB131]

.

Joe, I'm having a little trouble locating the thread in which Daveman avoided disagreeing with "Affirmative Action helping white women".

Could you link that for me? Thanks.

.

Other than he doesn't mention it, but WHINES for pages that the blacks are getting it? And that we "evil" liberals don't think that they can succeed without it.

 

[daveman]

No, guy, liberals insist that unless you make the white guys who do the hiring play fair, they aren't going to hire black folks.

Everyone is NOT born with the same oppurtunities. Some kid on the west side does not have the same oppurtunities Paris Hilton has.

Kids work their way out of the west side every day -- despite the insistence by white liberals that they can't.

Despite YOUR insistence that they can't.

Why do you have so little faith in blacks?

White liberals insist no such thing, Archie.

Well, except for all the times they do.

Reality time. No one gets ANYWHERE on their own. There was always a teacher, a boss, a co-worker, a government official who helped you or cut you a break at a key time. All Affirmative Action does is give a few more of those hands to minorities. And White Women. But you never get upset about Affirmative Action helping White Women. Why is that?

(Oh, wait, we know.)

You don't know anything you weren't programmed with.

I don't like AA period. But it's the liberal racism towards blacks that really irritates me.

[

Still bitterly clinging to the "Southern Strategy" revisionist history, I see.

You mean things Nixon's own people have admitted.

From Lee Atwater-

Exclusive: Lee Atwater?s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy | The Nation

You start out in 1954 by saying, “"“n****r”—“n****r”—“n****r”—.” By 1968 you can’t say “n****r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than ““n****r” -

From the liberal NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10Section2b.t-4.html

Everyone knows that race has long played a decisive role in Southern electoral politics. From the end of Reconstruction until the beginning of the civil rights era, the story goes, the national Democratic Party made room for segregationist members — and as a result dominated the South. But in the 50s and 60s, Democrats embraced the civil rights movement, costing them the white Southern vote. Meanwhile, the Republican Party successfully wooed disaffected white racists with a “Southern strategy” that championed “states’ rights.”

It’s an easy story to believe, but this year two political scientists called it into question. In their book “The End of Southern Exceptionalism,” Richard Johnston of the University of Pennsylvania and Byron Shafer of the University of Wisconsin argue that the shift in the South from Democratic to Republican was overwhelmingly a question not of race but of economic growth. In the postwar era, they note, the South transformed itself from a backward region to an engine of the national economy, giving rise to a sizable new wealthy suburban class. This class, not surprisingly, began to vote for the party that best represented its economic interests: the G.O.P. Working-class whites, however — and here’s the surprise — even those in areas with large black populations, stayed loyal to the Democrats. (This was true until the 90s, when the nation as a whole turned rightward in Congressional voting.)

The two scholars support their claim with an extensive survey of election returns and voter surveys. To give just one example: in the 50s, among Southerners in the low-income tercile, 43 percent voted for Republican Presidential candidates, while in the high-income tercile, 53 percent voted Republican; by the 80s, those figures were 51 percent and 77 percent, respectively. Wealthy Southerners shifted rightward in droves but poorer ones didn’t.

To be sure, Shafer says, many whites in the South aggressively opposed liberal Democrats on race issues. “But when folks went to the polling booths,” he says, “they didn’t shoot off their own toes. They voted by their economic preferences, not racial preferences.” Shafer says these results should give liberals hope. “If Southern politics is about class and not race,” he says, “then they can get it back.”​

Everything...EVERYTHING...you believe is wrong.

 

[daveman]

.

Joe, I'm having a little trouble locating the thread in which Daveman avoided disagreeing with "Affirmative Action helping white women".

Could you link that for me? Thanks.

.

Other than he doesn't mention it, but WHINES for pages that the blacks are getting it? And that we "evil" liberals don't think that they can succeed without it.

I don't call you evil.

I call you racist.