Gallup: Government Too Powerful

[Vox]

[

Bush is as far from conservative as obabble is from a moderate.
And I have no problem with Bush whatsoever - he was a much better president than we have now. what is now - is a disaster.

Bush was more of a "conservative" than Reagan was.

Reagan gave UNCONDITIONAL Amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens.

and it turned out to be HUMONGOUS mistake

Bush tried to give them a VERY CONDITIONAL amnesty, and couldn't get that passed.

because the leftard Congress and Senate killed it. Bush's amnesty was not a bad one.

Reagan appointed moderates to two of his three SCOTUS appointments.

and we are regurgitating it exactly NOW.

Bush appointed conservatives to both of his.

GOOD.

Reagan raised taxes after cutting them. Bush would never do that.

GOOD

And sorry, look at Bush's record.

2 Recessions, including the worst on in 80 years.

A lie. Bush has had a great economy (after stepping into presidency right into recession in 2001, which he steered skillfully) throughout the whole presidency and did all he could to prevent the housing bubble to burst - but the dimpcraps in the Senate did not want to hear about controlling Fanny and Freddie.

The recession of 2008 is a DIRECT fault of dimocrap policies - with Clinton's Glass-Steagal repeal starting, through blackmailing banks into lending money to unqualified people and all the way through refusing to control the bubble before it burst.

A War based on a LIE, costing 5000 American lives and a trillion dollars.

which was blessed by bipartisan Congress resolution and UN SC. And it was not a lie.

A war that was so ineptly carried out,

at the beginning - yes. until the surge. That is what I can blame Bush for - if you get into a war - carry it as a war - not as a appeasing game

the criminals of 9/11 got away with their lives.

A LIE. Osama being able to construct 9/11 is responsibility of Clinton refusing to get hold of him when it was proposed.

A major city wiped off the map due to poor disaster preparation.

Bullshit. It is the responsibility of the local authorities and their to be blamed for the reaction to the disaster. But your idol obabble did not do better with sandy anyway.

You can criticize Obama, and I have, but frankly, the record of fuckups on Bush's watch are unrivalled.

Bush was a PRESIDENT. The failure we have in the WH now is anything, but a PRESIDENT.
It is the worst "president" we have ever had - Carter looks almost as accomplishment in comparison.

 

[Antares]

Shhh...the Grownups are talking. Go back to your toys...

Ahh yes, you have so much "pussy" you MUST be an adult

Sorry sissy boy you've been bitch slapped by everybody on this forum.

I'm just going to let you cry out your tantrum in the corner, little boy...

I mean, seriously, WTF with the kiddie icon?

Poor Joe....is this what you have been relegated to....trying to marginalize your betters?

You are an intellectual midget...I'm sorry but its true.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Your Bush argument is a non sequitur, and it's fucking old. Obama's fucked up on Sandy, got whipped on foreign policy, ran up the debt, oversaw the larges grant of amnesty for illegals SINCE Reagan... I mean the list goes on and on and on.

You have no other argument, other than "Bush did it, so Obama gets a free pass when he does it."

Okay, this is actually close to an adult conversation. The list may go on, but these were the best four you could come up with.

Except that he really didn't screw up Sandy the way Bush screwed up Katrina. Again, CHristie and Bloomberg, both Republican tools of Wall Street, have praised the hell out of him.

On foreign policy. Hmm.. We're out of Iraq. We're getting out of Afghanistan, bin Laden is sleeping with the fishes, Qadafy is with his 76 virgins, we got Assad to give up his weapons of WMD without a shot fired. The world actually LIKES us again.

Bush doubled the debt, Obama ran it up by 50% because of obligations Bush incurred. Then he finally stopped the obscene tax giveaway to rich folks, and the deficit was halved.

Can't see why decriminilzing Americans for acts their parents committed when they were children is a bad thing. But I have this odd thing called "compassion". You should try it sometime.

You have zero compassion, otherwise, you would care when unborn children are slaughtered needlessly in the womb. How dare you feign compassion? You have nothing of the sort.

So you tout all of Obama's "successes." So what, I have no praise for men who succeed on the backs of others. Sound familiar? Bush left office 5 years ago, Obama now has no excuse as to why he hasn't paid down the debt. 5 years. He could have ended this on the very first session of Congress after the election in 2009. But nope. He decided to blame it all on someone else, and continues to do so.

I adhere to an odd concept called "common sense" and "honesty." You should try them sometime.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, I'd take Carter or Clinton or anyone else over Bush, who pretty much fucked up everyone's life.

because the leftard Congress and Senate killed it. Bush's amnesty was not a bad one.

I don't think it was necessarily a bad one. But the guys who killed it were Tancredo and the other nativists and the Minutemen movement screaming like squealling pigs and calling John McCain "Juan McAmnesty", to the point where the guy had to renounce his own immigration plan to get the nomination.

The recession of 2008 is a DIRECT fault of dimocrap policies - with Clinton's Glass-Steagal repeal starting, through blackmailing banks into lending money to unqualified lenders and all the way through refusing to control the bubble before it burst.

Again, this is where you need to stop listening to Hate Radio. Seriously.

For the record, the CRA did NOT cause the crash.

Fannie, Freddie, and the CRA are Not Responsible for the Financial Crisis - CBS News

However, the evidence does not support the second explanation. First, with respect to the CRA, the main culprits in the crisis were private sector financial institutions that were not subject to the requirements of the CRA. In the story being pushed by free market advocates, the CRA forced banks to make loans to unqualified, low-income households. When those loans blew up, it caused the financial crisis. But the largest players in the subprime market were private sector firms that were not subject to the CRA's rules and regulations. For example, "Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics." The largest losses had nothing to do with banks covered by the CRA.

Second, even if the banks themselves were subject to the CRA, not all loans that they made were covered by these rules. Even in banks where the CRA applied, most of the problems were in loans that did not fall under the CRA's jurisdiction.

Third, the CRA has been in existence since 1977. If the CRA was responsible, why didn't the crisis occur sooner? The timing simply doesn't match up.

Fourth, the CRA only applies to domestic firms, but the crisis occurred in many countries. If the CRA is the problem, why did countries that had nothing like the CRA experience similar problems?


Fifth, even if this story had any validity, both parties promoted an "ownership society," so blaming Democrats alone is about politics, not reality.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Joe, you are being annihilated in this thread, it's utterly pathetic how you can't come up with a cogent thought here tonight.

 

[JoeB131]

You have zero compassion, otherwise, you would care when unborn children are slaughtered needlessly in the womb. How dare you feign compassion? You have nothing of the sort.

Guy, is "You don't accept my position on abortion" as your fallback position. We ain't talking about abortion here, or your crazy belief that Spooge is People. It just shows the weakness of yoru argument.

So you tout all of Obama's "successes." So what, I have no praise for men who succeed on the backs of others. Sound familiar? Bush left office 5 years ago, Obama now has no excuse as to why he hasn't paid down the debt. 5 years. He could have ended this on the very first session of Congress after the election in 2009. But nope. He decided to blame it all on someone else, and continues to do so.

guy, you can't pay back 30 years of debt in 5 years, man. This is a weak argument.

I adhere to an odd concept called "common sense" and "honesty." You should try them sometime.

Guy, you have not a lick of either.

You can't pay down 16 Trillion dollars of debt with a GDP of only about 16 Trillion. You'd have to tax everyone at 100% just to pay the debt.

Man, are you like a dumbass or what?

 

[TemplarKormac]

You have zero compassion, otherwise, you would care when unborn children are slaughtered needlessly in the womb. How dare you feign compassion? You have nothing of the sort.

Guy, is "You don't accept my position on abortion" as your fallback position. We ain't talking about abortion here, or your crazy belief that Spooge is People. It just shows the weakness of yoru argument.

So you tout all of Obama's "successes." So what, I have no praise for men who succeed on the backs of others. Sound familiar? Bush left office 5 years ago, Obama now has no excuse as to why he hasn't paid down the debt. 5 years. He could have ended this on the very first session of Congress after the election in 2009. But nope. He decided to blame it all on someone else, and continues to do so.

guy, you can't pay back 30 years of debt in 5 years, man. This is a weak argument.

I adhere to an odd concept called "common sense" and "honesty." You should try them sometime.

Guy, you have not a lick of either.

You can't pay down 16 Trillion dollars of debt with a GDP of only about 16 Trillion. You'd have to tax everyone at 100% just to pay the debt.

Man, are you like a dumbass or what?

No. Dumbasses don't incur more debt on top of more debt. Dumbasses do nothing to solve the problem. Dumbasses sit there and blame everyone else for their fuck ups. Dumbasses cause the problems they promise to fix.

You don't have to tax people to pay down debt. You can just stop spending so much. There goes that common sense I was talking about before. And who says we have to pay all of the debt down now, nitwit? Old Chinese proverb: "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

If you're so honest and common sensical, why do you A) Lie about everything being Bush's fault, then lie that you have compassion and B) continue lying when you have been taken our behind the shed so many times?

Lastly, you speak of compassion, but you think nothing of the unborn babies who die needlessly during an abortion. You have zero compassion. You want to take away everyone's rights on a whim just because some idiot with mental issues goes berserk with a gun. You have absolutely no standing.

Daggum dude, are you like, that out of touch with reality or what? Do you not even think straight at all?

 

[daveman]

The question is, why do Minorities think that liberals give a damn about them.

Hmmm...

So either they are all kind of dumb, or they can look at things where Liberals had their backs. I'm going with the latter.





Well, it won't work if we never try it. But thanks for being RACIST...

Tired of your progressive unthinking knee-jerk spurious charges of racism.

You're a lying sack of shit who can't discuss anything using logic and reason.

So eat shit, Commie bastard.

 

[Vox]

Actually, I'd take Carter or Clinton or anyone else over Bush, who pretty much fucked up everyone's life.

I would take Bush over Carter and this disaster we have in the WH now in a blink of an eye. I will take Clinton ONLY with the majority of Republicans in Congress and Senate - as it happened during his presidency.

because the leftard Congress and Senate killed it. Bush's amnesty was not a bad one.

I don't think it was necessarily a bad one. But the guys who killed it were Tancredo and the other nativists and the Minutemen movement screaming like squealling pigs and calling John McCain "Juan McAmnesty", to the point where the guy had to renounce his own immigration plan to get the nomination.

the main opposition was from the dimocraps, but reps did not help as well - I can agree with that

The recession of 2008 is a DIRECT fault of dimocrap policies - with Clinton's Glass-Steagal repeal starting, through blackmailing banks into lending money to unqualified lenders and all the way through refusing to control the bubble before it burst.

Again, this is where you need to stop listening to Hate Radio. Seriously.

For the record, the CRA did NOT cause the crash.

as a sole reason - it did not. in a combination with Glass-Steagall repeal, banks being pushed to lend and dimocraps in Congress refusing to do anything about controlling Fannie and Freddie - it did cause the crash

Fifth, even if this story had any validity, both parties promoted an "ownership society," so blaming Democrats alone is about politics, not reality.

dimocraps are the ones to be blamed when the problem of growing bubble was tried to be addressed by Bush TWICE ( maybe more, just what I remember) - and it was filibustered first and plain rejected the second time. First it was in 2003 then in 2006 ( out of my head, the years might be a bit different)

 

[Vox]

You can't pay down 16 Trillion dollars of debt with a GDP of only about 16 Trillion. You'd have to tax everyone at 100% just to pay the debt.

You don't have to pay it in one year, so there is no need to increase taxes at all.
But you are right that 17 trillion of debt with a 16 rtrillion GDP - is unsustainable, therefore one HAS to stop spending - NOW.
drastically.

Lets return to 2008 budget - across the board - how about that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

You can't pay down 16 Trillion dollars of debt with a GDP of only about 16 Trillion. You'd have to tax everyone at 100% just to pay the debt.

You don't have to pay it in one year, so there is no need to increase taxes at all.
But you are right that 17 trillion of debt with a 16 rtrillion GDP - is unsustainable, therefore one HAS to stop spending - NOW.
drastically.

Lets return to 2008 budget - across the board - how about that?

Lets stop printing money and deflating the dollar, return it to what it was worth in 1980. The 2008 budget would still have us spending trillions of dollars. We need to cut spending in half.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No. Dumbasses don't incur more debt on top of more debt. Dumbasses do nothing to solve the problem. Dumbasses sit there and blame everyone else for their fuck ups. Dumbasses cause the problems they promise to fix.

You don't have to tax people to pay down debt. You can just stop spending so much. There goes that common sense I was talking about before. And who says we have to pay all of the debt down now, nitwit? Old Chinese proverb: "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

If you're so honest and common sensical, why do you A) Lie about everything being Bush's fault, then lie that you have compassion and B) continue lying when you have been taken our behind the shed so many times?

here's the underlying problem with that Bromide, guy. What are you going to cut on spending?

Defense? Not likely.
Interest on the Debt- Can't. Legally.
Social Security- Again, can't do it.
Medicare- again, ain't gonna happen.

So already, 68% of the Federal Budget isn't something you'd ever dare touch.

So of the 32% that remains, you have everthing else. Oh, I guess you could cut "food stamps" and all the other safety net programs, but that's only 12% of the budget. The remaining 20% is roads and payments to government employees and that kind of stuff.

Only way we get out of debt is to grow our way out or tax our way out.

[
Lastly, you speak of compassion, but you think nothing of the unborn babies who die needlessly during an abortion. You have zero compassion. You want to take away everyone's rights on a whim just because some idiot with mental issues goes berserk with a gun. You have absolutely no standing.

The problem with the premise here is the term "unborn baby". Sorry, no such things. They are babies and there are fetuses. An "unborn baby" is a figment of your imagination.

And, no, there's no good reason why you or any other person who is not in the military or law enforcement should have a gun.

Daggum dude, are you like, that out of touch with reality or what? Do you not even think straight at all?

Daggum, dude, all you did was appeal to emotion without one good idea.

Tell me what you'd cut to get us to a balanced budget. Specifically. Give me numbers.

Tell me how you are going to make women have babies they don't want. Specifically.

Tell me how you are going to keep madmen from shooting up schools and theatres. Specifically.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't pay down 16 Trillion dollars of debt with a GDP of only about 16 Trillion. You'd have to tax everyone at 100% just to pay the debt.

You don't have to pay it in one year, so there is no need to increase taxes at all.
But you are right that 17 trillion of debt with a 16 rtrillion GDP - is unsustainable, therefore one HAS to stop spending - NOW.
drastically.

Lets return to 2008 budget - across the board - how about that?

No, because the 2008 budget had Trillion dollar deficits. The only thing that kept them lower was an overinflated stock market and housing market.

I think there has to be a combination of growth, spending cuts and tax increases.

To give you a comparison, after WWII, the National Debt was 125% of the GDP.

By 1952, it had shrunk to less than 50%.

How?

Well, first, we kept the higher tax rates in place.

Second, we protected our industries and encouraged a strong middle class.

Third, we spent smartly. We didn't go out and slash government. Quite the contary, we built an international highway system, we did cold war building of military systems, but we got our money's worth when we bought them.

 

[JoeB131]

[

the main opposition was from the dimocraps, but reps did not help as well - I can agree with that

NO, the Democrats simply said they weren't going to go along with it unless a majority of Republicans did first. They didn't block it to get something better, they didn't threaten to default on our debt until they go their way.

as a sole reason - it did not. in a combination with Glass-Steagall repeal, banks being pushed to lend and dimocraps in Congress refusing to do anything about controlling Fannie and Freddie - it did cause the crash

Okay, guy, Fanny wasn't the problem.

Bear Sterns, AIG, Blackstone, Morgan Stanley and all the other companies that traded in securities were.

And again, this just didn't happen in the US. It happened ALL OVER THE WORLD.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Tired of your progressive unthinking knee-jerk spurious charges of racism.

You're a lying sack of shit who can't discuss anything using logic and reason.

So eat shit, Commie bastard.

Guy, you are the one who cited "ethic diversity" and "Affrimative action" as the cause of all our problems and why we can't be more like Japan

If the Hood fits, wear it!

 

[JoeB131]

[

Lets stop printing money and deflating the dollar, return it to what it was worth in 1980. The 2008 budget would still have us spending trillions of dollars. We need to cut spending in half.

Deflation carries its own risk, mostly that it wipes out the value of people's savings.

A large part of the reason WHY this recession has been so devastating is that the values of things people owned- namely property and stock portfolios - have dropped so much.

Point is, you can't cut the value of the dollar without cutting salaries and costs, and that would be more of a shock than our relatively mild 2% inflation is.

 

[Vox]

[

the main opposition was from the dimocraps, but reps did not help as well - I can agree with that

NO, the Democrats simply said they weren't going to go along with it unless a majority of Republicans did first. They didn't block it to get something better, they didn't threaten to default on our debt until they go their way.

as a sole reason - it did not. in a combination with Glass-Steagall repeal, banks being pushed to lend and dimocraps in Congress refusing to do anything about controlling Fannie and Freddie - it did cause the crash

Okay, guy, Fanny wasn't the problem.

Bear Sterns, AIG, Blackstone, Morgan Stanley and all the other companies that traded in securities were.

And again, this just didn't happen in the US. It happened ALL OVER THE WORLD.

yes, it was. as a government entity it was the main problem.

 

[JoeB131]

[

yes, it was. as a government entity it was the main problem.

If your attitude is "Government bad", and you will always find a way to blame government for something, I guess you can.

But, no, the 2008 recession was caused because guys on Wall Street gamed the system to make themselves richer, and held us all hostage to get a bailout.

 

[daveman]

[
Tired of your progressive unthinking knee-jerk spurious charges of racism.

You're a lying sack of shit who can't discuss anything using logic and reason.

So eat shit, Commie bastard.

Guy, you are the one who cited "ethic diversity" and "Affrimative action" as the cause of all our problems and why we can't be more like Japan

If the Hood fits, wear it!

Oh, I see the problem. You can't read.

Well, there are all kinds of adult literacy programs out there. Have someone look one up in the Yellow Pages for you.

 

[JoeB131]

Dave, do REALLY not understand how absolutely RACIST statements like this sound?

[
Liberals exploited it to get votes.

You don't REALLY think liberals give a damn about minorities, do you?



They also have far more racial homogeneity than we do.
The US is more diverse...and with a much larger population.

What you think succeeds there will not necessarily succeed here.

You missed a great deal. Welfare rewards black mothers for being single and having more kids. Plus, Affirmative Action tells blacks they can't succeed without the help of white liberals.


.

I'm serious, here. Are you really that clueless? Do you really believe these things?