Global warming over the last 16 years

[IanC]

Ian -

I am a conspiracy theorist for being concerned that there are very few temp stations in northern canada.

Indeed.

There are 209 countries in the world. While you obsess about Iceland and Northern Canada, I think most of us are fairly content with the data gathered in the other 150 countries which conduct research, and which have reliable monitors etc.

This really is not difficult - find a research unit and country you trust. Read their local research. Consider that in a global context.

what an asshole you are for editing my comment to say something different. fuck off and die.

 

[IanC]

how much of the Arctic is under Canadian jurisdiction? if Icelandic temperatures are known to be adjusted (corrupted) by the main data collectors, how big of a percentage is that of high latitude stations? if Icelandic temps have been unilaterally changed without permission, how many other northern countries have suffered a similar fate?

 

[Saigon]

Ian -

I didn't adjust your statement at all - anyone can go back and read your original comment. I merely took one sentence from it because that was the sentence I was replying to.

However, this seems to be a conveniant way of you avoiding addressing the point.

Again - find a research unit you trust in a country you trust. Perhaps find one in a northern latitude since that seems to be an issue for you. Norway, Finland, Russia (Svalbard), Alaska and Sweden all conduct research which might be useful.

Personally, I ifnd the research conducted by Aalto University here impeccble, and I have met the unit head there.

Also, I have no idea why both you and SSDD seem to assume any recalculation of results means fraud and malicious intent. In all likelihood, it is about ensuring the results are more accurate, and discounting any results which may be compromised by external influences.

 

[westwall]

Clearly, Saigon had no idea that black holes had been replicated in a lab seting

No, it was news to me.

But as I said earlier - there are a dozen other concepts which have not been replicated in a lab setting, such as quasars, which you apparently accept.

Honestly, Frank, it is just so blazingly obvious that this lad replication thing is a red herring....is that seriously the best excuse you can come up with for rejecting science?

The fact that you actually admit that you will reject all scientific research out of hand....it takes the breath away.

I find it interesting that scientists HAVE been able to teleport something, but you can't produce a single empirical experiment that supports your claims. Pretty lame if you ask me.

 

[westwall]

Ian -

I am a conspiracy theorist for being concerned that there are very few temp stations in northern canada.

Indeed.

There are 209 countries in the world. While you obsess about Iceland and Northern Canada, I think most of us are fairly content with the data gathered in the other 150 countries which conduct research, and which have reliable monitors etc.

This really is not difficult - find a research unit and country you trust. Read their local research. Consider that in a global context.

what an asshole you are for editing my comment to say something different. fuck off and die.

Yep, they all seem to engage in completely unethical behavior at the drop of a hat and think that it's OK. And they wonder why they're losing.

 

[Saigon]

And they wonder why they're losing.

Ha!! Priceless! It's so funny - Holocaust Deniers claim the same thing all the time as well!

The thing that makes that so funny is that you can't possibly believe it - and yet here you are, still insisting victory is just around the corner!!

Any day now, all of those silly physicists will see the light!

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Do quasars exist?

Have they been reproduced in lab experiments?

What about white dwarfs?

Perhaps you can follow Frank's lead - and insist that all science must be reproduceable in a lab, but only if it applies to climate. Everything elese gets a pass.

 

[westwall]

And they wonder why they're losing.

Ha!! Priceless! It's so funny - Holocaust Deniers claim the same thing all the time as well!

The thing that makes that so funny is that you can't possibly believe it - and yet here you are, still insisting victory is just around the corner!!

Any day now, all of those silly physicists will see the light!

Actually, no they don't. They tend to run and hide whenever they are confronted by someone who knows history. It's you revisionists (see I can use a pejorative to describe you that makes you sound like a NAZI too) who need to wake up.

Every time there is a story about global warming the comments section is allways most enlightening. Back 6 years ago the sceptics were a very small minority, now they are the overwhelming majority.

That's why you're losing. That's why the press is failing, the people are tired of being lied to and that's all the news groups do anymore.

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

Do quasars exist?

Have they been reproduced in lab experiments?

What about white dwarfs?

Perhaps you can follow Frank's lead - and insist that all science must be reproduceable in a lab, but only if it applies to climate. Everything elese gets a pass.

Nice non-sequiter but I'll play along. We don't know what quasars are. We don't even have a good theory to explain them. White dwarves are a mathematically derived theory that has quite a bit of support. We can actually estimate how dense thay are, we can calculate their rotational speed, we can also calculate how much mass it would need to accrete to reach the chandrasekhar limit and detonate in a supernova.

We can do all this from hundreds, even thousands of lightyears away, and yet you can't generate a single reproduceable experiment on THIS PLANET that supports your theory.

That's simply pathetic.

 

[Saigon]

Back 6 years ago the sceptics were a very small minority, now they are the overwhelming majority.

Um....only in the Twilight Zone.

Even in the US, where Fundamentalists have poisoned the debate with politics, opinion is very closely divided.

In much of the rest of the world, developed and developing, sceptics are a dwindling minority of extreme right wing policiticans, evangelical christians, soothsayers and coal industry workers.

There are major economies in which 90% of people surveyed believe human acitivity plays a part in climate change - how does this make you an "overwhelming majority"?

 

[westwall]

Back 6 years ago the sceptics were a very small minority, now they are the overwhelming majority.

Um....only in the Twilight Zone.

Even in the US, where Fundamentalists have poisoned the debate with politics, opinion is very closely divided.

In much of the rest of the world, developed and developing, sceptics are a dwindling minority of extreme right wing policiticans, evangelical christians, soothsayers and coal industry workers.

There are major economies in which 90% of people surveyed believe human acitivity plays a part in climate change - how does this make you an "overwhelming majority"?

Only in your dreams. At best the cult of AGW enjoys 25% support. And that only in the bigger cities. And, more importantly, you are losing people so fast that the AGU had to hire a public relations expert to try and sell the sizzle.

That's how bad you are losing...if the science held up even the slightest it wouldn't need a public relaions guy to help sell it. You wouldn't need to change the name every year to try and baffle the people.

No, you're losing......... and you know it.

 

[Saigon]

At best the cult of AGW enjoys 25% support.

Staggering. Just staggering.

Even in the US, the figure is close to double what you claim. It's easily verified.

Firstly, let's look around the world:

Is climate a change a serious problem?

Answering yes:

South Korea 92%
Japan 91%
Costa Rica 87%
Argentina 81%

US 49%

Climate change opinion by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And from Pew Reseach, it comes up in the US as 44%.

Concern about climate change is much less pervasive in the United States, China and Russia than among other leading nations. Just 44% in the U.S. and Russia, and even fewer in China (30%), consider global warming to be a very serious problem. By comparison, 68% in France, 65% in Japan, 61% in Spain and 60% in Germany say that is the case.

Global Warming Seen as a Major Problem Around the World Less Concern in the U.S., China and Russia | Pew Global Attitudes Project

Elsewhere, as you can see - huge majorities now agree human influence plays a part in climate change.

What do you think record breaking temperatures in Australia last month will have done to those attitudes?

 

[westwall]

At best the cult of AGW enjoys 25% support.

Staggering. Just staggering.

Even in the US, the figure is close to double what you claim. It's easily verified.

Firstly, let's look around the world:

Is climate a change a serious problem?

Answering yes:

South Korea 92%
Japan 91%
Costa Rica 87%
Argentina 81%

US 49%

Climate change opinion by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And from Pew Reseach, it comes up in the US as 44%.

Concern about climate change is much less pervasive in the United States, China and Russia than among other leading nations. Just 44% in the U.S. and Russia, and even fewer in China (30%), consider global warming to be a very serious problem. By comparison, 68% in France, 65% in Japan, 61% in Spain and 60% in Germany say that is the case.

Global Warming Seen as a Major Problem Around the World Less Concern in the U.S., China and Russia | Pew Global Attitudes Project

Elsewhere, as you can see - huge majorities now agree human influence plays a part in climate change.

What do you think record breaking temperatures in Australia last month will have done to those attitudes?

Oh yeah, I forgot your little tirade about religion and your attempt to equate scepticism with religious fanaticism (you really are a sad, pathetic little man, you know that), well I hate to inform you but it is the official Catholic position to support the "theory" of AGW, so you see, once again, it is you who are on the side of religious fanaticism.



"The Vatican yesterday added its voice to a rising chorus of warnings from churches around the world that climate change and abuse of the environment is against God's will, and that the one billion-strong Catholic church must become far greener.
At a Vatican conference on climate change, Pope Benedict urged bishops, scientists and politicians - including UK environment secretary David Miliband - to "respect creation" while "focusing on the needs of sustainable development".

The Pope's message follows a series of increasingly strong statements about climate change and the environment, including a warning earlier this year that "disregard for the environment always harms human coexistence, and vice versa".

Observers said yesterday that the Catholic church is no longer split between those who advocate development and those who say the environment is the priority. Cardinal Renato Raffaele Martino, head of the Pontifical Council of Justice and Peace, said: "For environment ... read Creation. The mastery of man over Creation must not be despotic or senseless. Man must cultivate and safeguard God's Creation."

According to Vatican sources, the present Pope is far more engaged in the green debate than John Paul. In the past year Benedict has spoken strongly on the need to preserve rainforests. In the next few weeks he visits Brazil.

"There is no longer a schism. The new interest in climate change and the environment is not surprising really. Benedict comes out of 1960s Germany, where environment and disarmament were major issues. It's conceivable that his ministry could even culminate in a papal encyclical on the environment," said one analyst. This would be the most powerful signal to the world's Catholics about the need for environmental awareness at every level."






Pope issues new green message for world's Catholics | World news | The Guardian

 

[edthecynic]

when has this happened? care to give me a few examples so that I can understand your context.

the great thermometer die off in the 90's affected high altitude and rural thermometers much more than urban and airport ones. please explain your last comment a little more thoroughly.

And there is your basic denier's conspiracy theory in 5 words.
Thank you!

If these shut down temp stations are so accurate they will disprove global warming, why don't you deniers man them and collect your own data? Instead you attack everyone else's data with none of your own!!!!
Very revealing!

Here we see that three northern bands have been gutted entirely. There are now NO thermometers (as of 2009) in the 65-70, 70-75, and 80-85 bands. 1992 saw the 80-85 band die. 2009, the others. Due to the general slaughter of thermometers, that 75-80 band is ONE thermometer.

That’s right. ONE thermometer for everything north of LAT 65. Who needs Northwest Territories, The Yukon Territories, or Baffin Island anyway… GIStemp can just estimate it from the satellite ice map projection synthesis interpolation estimates. (Yes, it does that…). Oh, wait, you say there have been sensor issues with the polar ice satellites?

and yet you think I am a conspiracy theorist for being concerned that there are very few temp stations in northern canada. there is obviously no opportunity for bias and shading with so many northern thermometers, right?

Again, if those abandoned temp stations hold the proof that there is no global warming, why don't you deniers simply man them and prove it once and for all?????

You don't because you know you would only confirm global warming, so it is essential that you don't and just continue with your conspiracy theories! You have no data so all you have are conspiracy theories.

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Please acknowledge that your statement:

At best the cult of AGW enjoys 25% support.

is false.

 

[newpolitics]

Climategate demonstrated the fraud. Yet people still bitterly cling to the failed theory of AGW.

Climatigate may have been a fraud, but this has nothing to do with whether global warming is actually happening or not. There is no logical connectivity, so get the fuck off it. There exists still evidence for agw , and that is what is important.

 

[IanC]

And there is your basic denier's conspiracy theory in 5 words.
Thank you!

If these shut down temp stations are so accurate they will disprove global warming, why don't you deniers man them and collect your own data? Instead you attack everyone else's data with none of your own!!!!
Very revealing!

Here we see that three northern bands have been gutted entirely. There are now NO thermometers (as of 2009) in the 65-70, 70-75, and 80-85 bands. 1992 saw the 80-85 band die. 2009, the others. Due to the general slaughter of thermometers, that 75-80 band is ONE thermometer.

That’s right. ONE thermometer for everything north of LAT 65. Who needs Northwest Territories, The Yukon Territories, or Baffin Island anyway… GIStemp can just estimate it from the satellite ice map projection synthesis interpolation estimates. (Yes, it does that…). Oh, wait, you say there have been sensor issues with the polar ice satellites?

and yet you think I am a conspiracy theorist for being concerned that there are very few temp stations in northern canada. there is obviously no opportunity for bias and shading with so many northern thermometers, right?

Again, if those abandoned temp stations hold the proof that there is no global warming, why don't you deniers simply man them and prove it once and for all?????

You don't because you know you would only confirm global warming, so it is essential that you don't and just continue with your conspiracy theories! You have no data so all you have are conspiracy theories.

there is an obvious disconnect between what I am saying and what you are hearing.

I am saying that the methodologies of data collection, collation, and adjustment leave serious doubts about the accuracy of the temperatures and the trends in temperature.

you are saying that all of the bad station siting, poor documentation, seemingly biased increase of recent temps and cooling of past temps, reducing of the number of reporting temperature stations, and reckless infilling of temperature grids from readings that are up to thousands of kilometers away somehow doesnt matter to the accuracy of the temps and trends.

in a way your belief is worse than my scepticism. I want science to succeed by using proper methods. you dont care about the science, and would be quite happy get the 'right' results by misrepresentation.


accidentally getting the right answer by improper methods is just luck not science.

I care about climate science. I hate the way some of these guys are making a mockery of the scientific principles that have led to an explosion of knowledge that has changed the world.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Climategate demonstrated the fraud. Yet people still bitterly cling to the failed theory of AGW.

Climatigate may have been a fraud, but this has nothing to do with whether global warming is actually happening or not. There is no logical connectivity, so get the fuck off it. There exists still evidence for agw , and that is what is important.

"You tell 'em, Dickweed! I've got the evidence right under my pinkie"

 

[percysunshine]

Climategate demonstrated the fraud. Yet people still bitterly cling to the failed theory of AGW.

Climatigate may have been a fraud, but this has nothing to do with whether global warming is actually happening or not. There is no logical connectivity, so get the fuck off it. There exists still evidence for agw , and that is what is important.

I see we have another fraud denier. Welcome to the party.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Climategate demonstrated the fraud. Yet people still bitterly cling to the failed theory of AGW.

Climatigate may have been a fraud, but this has nothing to do with whether global warming is actually happening or not. There is no logical connectivity, so get the fuck off it. There exists still evidence for agw , and that is what is important.

I see we have another fraud denier. Welcome to the party.

It's not fraud if you truly believe in Global Climate Warming Change!