God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[rylah]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

 

[ESay]

spirit, soul and body.

Spirit is life, the body is our form.

Describe what you mean by soul. Not woo I hope. If you say you have a soul, you should know what it is, otherwise it is just a hunch on your part.

I think it falls into the realm of the unknowable god concept, unless you have suffered your apotheosis like the very few of us have.

Regards
DL

I can't give you an answer about a soul. I don't know, really.

The conception of soul can be easily explained based on dualistic worldview. And there was the time when I was leaning towards it. But now not that much.

Do you mind if I asked what changed?

One of the reason is because I couldn't find an appropriate answer to me about the question I proposed above to another poster. It is possible to assume that a human being has two natures, but how do the two natures manifest themselves in other parts of material world?

The other reason is that some time ago I was interested in Zoroastrianism. I still like their philosophy, though. But I was disappointed by their primitivism as a whole. Btw, Zoroastrianism despite its dualism is on the opposite scale of Gnosticism. For them, the material world is the best creation which was partially spoiled by the evil force.

You have been reading what the inquisitors lied about us to justify their murders of us.

They gave the mythical view that we used against Christians. Not our real view. Please give our real view a look to see how we love matter nand the world that nature has provided.

I have corrected ding a few times on this and he still spreads the lie.

---------

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

Well, it is not only about the incquision. Modern authors also write about anti-material views of Gnostics.

What is the main book of the teaching you follow?

The Gnostic gospels and the knowledge that our myths are not to be read literally.

Let me give you some information and a mental challenge based on logic, reason and science.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

I don't consider Christianity to be a reasonable teaching.

Who is Jesus Christ? As I can understand you don't recognise any of the canonical gospels?

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rylah]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

 

[rylah]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

 

[rylah]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

When we learned history in the school,
books said a lot about inquisition, torture, murder, blood libels...
But none explained the story in this context, I'm only recently beginning to understand that.

Not just that they murdered Jews for merely celebrating Pesach,
but at the same time walked thinking they are the "true Israel" while doing the easter thing.

Can't even imagine how it was living in such an atmosphere, I think the accumulating psychological effect for generations was probably even worse than the physical torture.

Muslims were at least monotheists...and a Semitic mindset, language.

 

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Yes, Adam and Eve had a choice to eat of the forbidden fruit or not to eat.

Also, if Jehovah knew she would eat of the fruit - the test of obedience would have been a sham.

That Jehovah did not know the wicked outcome is shown by His being hurt at heart when the wickedness had grown intolerably worse shortly before the flood - note:

Genesis 6:6
And Jehovah felt regrets+ that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart.+

 

[Carl in Michigan]

God created the devil

No, He did not. He created Lucifer, and like all HUMANS God allowed the angels to CHOOSE.

 

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

Not true. Eternal torment in Hell Fire is a false doctrine - a God of love would never do that. (John 3:16) John stressed love - for example quoting Jesus:

John 13:34,35
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you,+ you also love one another.+ 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”+

John also tells us that "God is love" (1 John 4:8) Some of the context:

1 John 4:7-12
Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another,+ because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God.+ 8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.+ 9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son+ into the world so that we might gain life through him.+ 10 The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice*+ for our sins.+
11 Beloved ones, if this is how God loved us, then we are also under obligation to love one another.+ 12 No one has seen God at any time.+ If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.+

 

[Andylusion]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

 

[Andylusion]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

You make many empty statements.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

When we learned history in the school,
books said a lot about inquisition, torture, murder, blood libels...
But none explained the story in this context, I'm only recently beginning to understand that.

Not just that they murdered Jews for merely celebrating Pesach,
but at the same time walked thinking they are the "true Israel" while doing the easter thing.

Can't even imagine how it was living in such an atmosphere, I think the accumulating psychological effect for generations was probably even worse than the physical torture.

Muslims were at least monotheists...and a Semitic mindset, language.

The NT, verse by verse, chapter by chapter has no context.
The NT picks up where Jesus is pissed and hates every Jewish Jew and loves every scoundrel and ignoramus he encounters.
Jesus also talks to his mother and family like they're pieces of shit.
By studying the period you will discover that his followers were uneducated fishermen and murderous tax collectors who all of a sudden saw they light.

And this is why parochial schools cannot tech the NT verse by verse.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

You are a very intelligent person...
Have you read the NT verse by verse analyzing each verse and how each verse flows into the next?
Have you compared the Epistles to each other or any of The Gospels?
You do realize that the Holy Roman Church banned education during the first 1,000 years and trained the modern educated Christian to cherry pick verse out of context and ignore the rest of the verses.

Don't reply until you can response, "Yes." to my first question.

 

[Newtonian]

God created the devil

No, He did not. He created Lucifer, and like all HUMANS God allowed the angels to CHOOSE.

Lucifer meaning shining one. Originally the one called Satan (definition: resister) the Devil (defintion: slanderer) was created perfect according to the pattern the King of Tyre followed:

Ezekiel 28:12-19
12 “Son of man, sing a dirge* concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“You were the model of perfection,*
Full of wisdom+ and perfect in beauty.+
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
You were adorned with every precious stone
—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise,+ and emerald;
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God,+ and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.+
16 Because of your abundant trade,+
You became filled with violence, and you began to sin.+
So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,+
O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.+
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.+
I will throw you down to the earth.+
I will make you a spectacle before kings.
18 Because of your great guilt and your dishonest trading, you have profaned your sanctuaries.
I will cause a fire to break out in your midst, and it will consume you.+
I will reduce you to ashes on the earth before all those looking at you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples will stare at you in amazement.+
Your end will be sudden and terrible,
And you will cease to exist for all time.”’”+

Notice that when destroyed he is not going to be tormented in Hell Fire but rather "will cease to exist for all time."

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

 

[Indeependent]

God created the devil

No, He did not. He created Lucifer, and like all HUMANS God allowed the angels to CHOOSE.

Lucifer meaning shining one. Originally the one called Satan (definition: resister) the Devil (defintion: slanderer) was created perfect according to the pattern the King of Tyre followed:

Ezekiel 28:12-19
12 “Son of man, sing a dirge* concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“You were the model of perfection,*
Full of wisdom+ and perfect in beauty.+
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
You were adorned with every precious stone
—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise,+ and emerald;
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God,+ and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.+
16 Because of your abundant trade,+
You became filled with violence, and you began to sin.+
So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,+
O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.+
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.+
I will throw you down to the earth.+
I will make you a spectacle before kings.
18 Because of your great guilt and your dishonest trading, you have profaned your sanctuaries.
I will cause a fire to break out in your midst, and it will consume you.+
I will reduce you to ashes on the earth before all those looking at you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples will stare at you in amazement.+
Your end will be sudden and terrible,
And you will cease to exist for all time.”’”+

Notice that when destroyed he is not going to be tormented in Hell Fire but rather "will cease to exist for all time."

Why did you start at verse 12?
Why did you start at Chapter 28?
Because you were trained to read Scripture out of context.

You can screw up the NT all you want, but hands off the Jewish Prophets.

 

[Andylusion]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

You are a very intelligent person...
Have you read the NT verse by verse analyzing each verse and how each verse flows into the next?
Have you compared the Epistles to each other or any of The Gospels?
You do realize that the Holy Roman Church banned education during the first 1,000 years and trained the modern educated Christian to cherry pick verse out of context and ignore the rest of the verses.

Don't reply until you can response, "Yes." to my first question.

Well yes, of course. I've read through the entire Bible, Old and New testament, for over 7 years now. I am through to Luke 13 thus far this year, and Joshua 2.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church did crazy stuff. Tons of crazy stuff. I'm not Catholic, so you'll need to go ask someone who is Catholic why they did that.