God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

True, most clergy know little about what the Bible really teaches.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

You are a very intelligent person...
Have you read the NT verse by verse analyzing each verse and how each verse flows into the next?
Have you compared the Epistles to each other or any of The Gospels?
You do realize that the Holy Roman Church banned education during the first 1,000 years and trained the modern educated Christian to cherry pick verse out of context and ignore the rest of the verses.

Don't reply until you can response, "Yes." to my first question.

Well yes, of course. I've read through the entire Bible, Old and New testament, for over 7 years now. I am through to Luke 13 thus far this year, and Joshua 2.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church did crazy stuff. Tons of crazy stuff. I'm not Catholic, so you'll need to go ask someone who is Catholic why they did that.

No you didn't.
If someone as intelligent as you studied (not simply read) the Torah, you would toss your copies of the NT in your fireplace.
Luke and Mark, by the way, are by far more cogent than Matthew and John.
If you don't throw out your NT after the first Chapter of Hebrews I will be suspect of your intelligence.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

True, most clergy know little about what the Bible really teaches.

That's not the point...most Christan clergy have never read the Bible (Torah).
Reading selected RCC verses for 20 years is a waste of time.

 

[Andylusion]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

Ravi Zachariah?
Franklin Graham?
Mark Gungor?
Ted Cunningham?
Ken Murphy?

I'm sure there are pastors and ministers that are ignorant. I don't know any personally, likely because I don't bother to listen to people who make up stuff (unless their are on an internet forum).

But I do know where people went into divinity school, openly saying they didn't believe in G-d, and when asked why they were there, said because there is money to be made in religion.

Obviously when you have immoral pagans, going into school to be a pastor specifically for money, they are going to be utterly ignorant of what the Bible says. If you ran into such people, I imagine you likely did know much more than them.

 

[Andylusion]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

You are a very intelligent person...
Have you read the NT verse by verse analyzing each verse and how each verse flows into the next?
Have you compared the Epistles to each other or any of The Gospels?
You do realize that the Holy Roman Church banned education during the first 1,000 years and trained the modern educated Christian to cherry pick verse out of context and ignore the rest of the verses.

Don't reply until you can response, "Yes." to my first question.

Well yes, of course. I've read through the entire Bible, Old and New testament, for over 7 years now. I am through to Luke 13 thus far this year, and Joshua 2.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church did crazy stuff. Tons of crazy stuff. I'm not Catholic, so you'll need to go ask someone who is Catholic why they did that.

No you didn't.
If someone as intelligent as you studied (not simply read) the Torah, you would toss your copies of the NT in your fireplace.
Luke and Mark, by the way, are by far more cogent than Matthew and John.
If you don't throw out your NT after the first Chapter of Hebrews I will be suspect of your intelligence.

Sure. Whatever floats your boat.
(I always love it when people claim I didn't do what I've been doing for years)

If you know more about what I've done in my life, than me, the one who did it... then obviously there is no need for us to discuss this. After all, you already know everything. So... there is obviously nothing I can tell someone who knows everything already.

Nice chatting with you.

 

[Newtonian]

God created the devil

No, He did not. He created Lucifer, and like all HUMANS God allowed the angels to CHOOSE.

Lucifer meaning shining one. Originally the one called Satan (definition: resister) the Devil (defintion: slanderer) was created perfect according to the pattern the King of Tyre followed:

Ezekiel 28:12-19
12 “Son of man, sing a dirge* concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“You were the model of perfection,*
Full of wisdom+ and perfect in beauty.+
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
You were adorned with every precious stone
—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise,+ and emerald;
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God,+ and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.+
16 Because of your abundant trade,+
You became filled with violence, and you began to sin.+
So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,+
O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.+
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.+
I will throw you down to the earth.+
I will make you a spectacle before kings.
18 Because of your great guilt and your dishonest trading, you have profaned your sanctuaries.
I will cause a fire to break out in your midst, and it will consume you.+
I will reduce you to ashes on the earth before all those looking at you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples will stare at you in amazement.+
Your end will be sudden and terrible,
And you will cease to exist for all time.”’”+

Notice that when destroyed he is not going to be tormented in Hell Fire but rather "will cease to exist for all time."

Why did you start at verse 12?
Why did you start at Chapter 28?
Because you were trained to read Scripture out of context.

You can screw up the NT all you want, but hands off the Jewish Prophets.

That would have been a long post! So, what in the context about the King of Tyre did you want to discuss? The account shows that King "sealed up a pattern" set by the anointed cherub over the garden of Eden. The King of Tyre was not a cherub. He followed the pattern that cherub set.

Oh, btw, Ezekiel shows the soul dies - see 18:4,20. Did you want to discuss the book of Ezekiel perhaps verse by verse? I will be glad to study that with you if you wish.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

Ravi Zachariah?
Franklin Graham?
Mark Gungor?
Ted Cunningham?
Ken Murphy?

I'm sure there are pastors and ministers that are ignorant. I don't know any personally, likely because I don't bother to listen to people who make up stuff (unless their are on an internet forum).

But I do know where people went into divinity school, openly saying they didn't believe in G-d, and when asked why they were there, said because there is money to be made in religion.

Obviously when you have immoral pagans, going into school to be a pastor specifically for money, they are going to be utterly ignorant of what the Bible says. If you ran into such people, I imagine you likely did know much more than them.

All well intention-ed people; not a one has read the Torah verse by verse without checking out what the RCC wanted them to think about the verse.
Do you marvel that today's Christian is educated and charitable despite over 1,000 years of the NT?
I know many Rabbis who delight in the positive social messages of the above a the fact that they want to build a better world.
The only problem is they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

You are a very intelligent person...
Have you read the NT verse by verse analyzing each verse and how each verse flows into the next?
Have you compared the Epistles to each other or any of The Gospels?
You do realize that the Holy Roman Church banned education during the first 1,000 years and trained the modern educated Christian to cherry pick verse out of context and ignore the rest of the verses.

Don't reply until you can response, "Yes." to my first question.

Well yes, of course. I've read through the entire Bible, Old and New testament, for over 7 years now. I am through to Luke 13 thus far this year, and Joshua 2.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church did crazy stuff. Tons of crazy stuff. I'm not Catholic, so you'll need to go ask someone who is Catholic why they did that.

No you didn't.
If someone as intelligent as you studied (not simply read) the Torah, you would toss your copies of the NT in your fireplace.
Luke and Mark, by the way, are by far more cogent than Matthew and John.
If you don't throw out your NT after the first Chapter of Hebrews I will be suspect of your intelligence.

Sure. Whatever floats your boat.
(I always love it when people claim I didn't do what I've been doing for years)

If you know more about what I've done in my life, than me, the one who did it... then obviously there is no need for us to discuss this. After all, you already know everything. So... there is obviously nothing I can tell someone who knows everything already.

Nice chatting with you.

I will presume, perhaps foolishly, that you consider me to be a somewhat educated, reasonable person.
I have spent 50+ years with the Tanach and 20+ years with the NT.
I never claimed you didn't read the verses, I claim that you were tainted by the RCC and by the time you got to the Canon, you actually believed the carefully crafted corruption of the Tanach.

 

[rylah]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Yes, Adam and Eve had a choice to eat of the forbidden fruit or not to eat.

Also, if Jehovah knew she would eat of the fruit - the test of obedience would have been a sham.

That Jehovah did not know the wicked outcome is shown by His being hurt at heart when the wickedness had grown intolerably worse shortly before the flood - note:

Genesis 6:6
And Jehovah felt regrets+ that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart.+

Knew or not that's a whole other discussion.
G-d knows any of possible outcomes that free choice can lead to,
but gave humanity to decide what its due. Fact remains - there's freedom of choice

But what you're referring to in Genesis is not regret, that's mistranslated.
'Vayinahem' is from the root of consolation, sort of, for lack of better term in English.

 

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

True, most clergy know little about what the Bible really teaches.

That's not the point...most Christan clergy have never read the Bible (Torah).
Reading selected RCC verses for 20 years is a waste of time.

That is likely true. However, Jehovah's Witnesses have assigned Bible reading each week and at our mid-week meeting we comment on (share) the spiritual gems we have found in our personal Bible study. Currently we are studying Genesis chapter by chapter - the first book of the written Torah. Would you like to study Genesis verse by verse with me? I would be glad to do that if you wish.

Btw - "Christian" clergy are not actually Christian. We call those religions "Christendom" meaning false Christians. For example they fail to love their enemies as Jesus taught in his sermon on the mount (Matthew 5:44).

Also, we have no clergy class - no paid clergy. We are all ministers - e.g. we all preach and teach.

Jesus did not accept a salary for his preaching - neither do his followers accept such a salary.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Yes, Adam and Eve had a choice to eat of the forbidden fruit or not to eat.

Also, if Jehovah knew she would eat of the fruit - the test of obedience would have been a sham.

That Jehovah did not know the wicked outcome is shown by His being hurt at heart when the wickedness had grown intolerably worse shortly before the flood - note:

Genesis 6:6
And Jehovah felt regrets+ that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart.+

Knew or not that's a whole other discussion.
G-d knows any of possible outcomes that free choice can lead to,
but gave humanity to decide what its due. Fact remains - there's freedom of choice

But what you're referring to in Genesis is not regret, that's mistranslated.
'Vayinahem' is from the root of consolation, sort of, for lack of better term in English.

What drives me crazy is that the NT keeps misusing the word, "Messiah".
It's not "Messiah", it's "Moshiach", and it has nothing to do with anything supernatural.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

True, most clergy know little about what the Bible really teaches.

That's not the point...most Christan clergy have never read the Bible (Torah).
Reading selected RCC verses for 20 years is a waste of time.

That is likely true. However, Jehovah's Witnesses have assigned Bible reading each week and at our mid-week meeting we comment on (share) the spiritual gems we have found in our personal Bible study. Currently we are studying Genesis chapter by chapter - the first book of the written Torah. Would you like to study Genesis verse by verse with me? I would be glad to do that if you wish.

Btw - "Christian" clergy are not actually Christian. We call those religions "Christendom" meaning false Christians. For example they fail to love their enemies as Jesus taught in his sermon on the mount (Matthew 5:44).

Also, we have no clergy class - no paid clergy. We are all ministers - e.g. we all preach and teach.

Jesus did not accept a salary for his preaching - neither do his followers accept such a salary.

Everytime a JW comes to my door I ask them if they speak Hebrew.
They give me a dazed look and walk off.
Why is it that Christians will spend a lifetime in a malaria ridden swamp trying to convert cannibals rather than spending 3 months learning basic Hebrew?
Because you're been told by the NT that not believing in J will result in you burning in the Eternal Lake of Hell for all eternity.
Would a valid religion be so afraid of you learning a language!?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The NT picks up where Jesus is pissed and hates every Jewish Jew and loves every scoundrel and ignoramus he encounters.
Jesus also talks to his mother and family like they're pieces of shit

You have a lot to learn

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

True, most clergy know little about what the Bible really teaches.

That's not the point...most Christan clergy have never read the Bible (Torah).
Reading selected RCC verses for 20 years is a waste of time.

That is likely true. However, Jehovah's Witnesses have assigned Bible reading each week and at our mid-week meeting we comment on (share) the spiritual gems we have found in our personal Bible study. Currently we are studying Genesis chapter by chapter - the first book of the written Torah. Would you like to study Genesis verse by verse with me? I would be glad to do that if you wish.

Btw - "Christian" clergy are not actually Christian. We call those religions "Christendom" meaning false Christians. For example they fail to love their enemies as Jesus taught in his sermon on the mount (Matthew 5:44).

Also, we have no clergy class - no paid clergy. We are all ministers - e.g. we all preach and teach.

Jesus did not accept a salary for his preaching - neither do his followers accept such a salary.

The first thing Jews learn is to stump the Rabbi.
I can't imagine serving an infinite God who doesn't want me to be curious about His creation and the medium by which he communicates with us...The Scriptures.

 

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

Ravi Zachariah?
Franklin Graham?
Mark Gungor?
Ted Cunningham?
Ken Murphy?

I'm sure there are pastors and ministers that are ignorant. I don't know any personally, likely because I don't bother to listen to people who make up stuff (unless their are on an internet forum).

But I do know where people went into divinity school, openly saying they didn't believe in G-d, and when asked why they were there, said because there is money to be made in religion.

Obviously when you have immoral pagans, going into school to be a pastor specifically for money, they are going to be utterly ignorant of what the Bible says. If you ran into such people, I imagine you likely did know much more than them.

Indeed - the love of money is the root of all evil in Christendom - 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV

 

[Indeependent]

The NT picks up where Jesus is pissed and hates every Jewish Jew and loves every scoundrel and ignoramus he encounters.
Jesus also talks to his mother and family like they're pieces of shit

You have a lot to learn

Such as?
Be a man...don't pussy out on me.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

By the way, I have yet to meet a Pastor, Minister or Priest who has read the NT verse by verse.
I watch Ministry speeches at the gym during my time on the treadmill and it's freaking embarrassing what they don't know.

Ravi Zachariah?
Franklin Graham?
Mark Gungor?
Ted Cunningham?
Ken Murphy?

I'm sure there are pastors and ministers that are ignorant. I don't know any personally, likely because I don't bother to listen to people who make up stuff (unless their are on an internet forum).

But I do know where people went into divinity school, openly saying they didn't believe in G-d, and when asked why they were there, said because there is money to be made in religion.

Obviously when you have immoral pagans, going into school to be a pastor specifically for money, they are going to be utterly ignorant of what the Bible says. If you ran into such people, I imagine you likely did know much more than them.

Indeed - the love of money is the root of all evil in Christendom - 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV

More encompassing...
Thinking God is wrong by not giving one what they want.

The Hebrew word for Gold is "Zeh Hahv", "Give me THIS".
Silver is K'Sahf...You made me pale!

 

[Carl in Michigan]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

It doesnt say that. Why must you lie?

 

[Indeependent]

The NT picks up where Jesus is pissed and hates every Jewish Jew and loves every scoundrel and ignoramus he encounters.
Jesus also talks to his mother and family like they're pieces of shit

You have a lot to learn

Giving Thumbs Down...
You'd do better to prove me wrong.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

It doesnt say that. Why must you lie?

You're joking!
Seriously, read every verse!