God given rights?

[regent]

Maybe the founders got it wrong, maybe the purpose of governments is not to protect life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Maybe the purpose of government is to protect the people's rights to make money and for a few to become wealthy? Americans can't all be wealthy or that would make us all equal, sort of middle classish. Nope, Jefferson had it wrong, and the history of America proves Romney right: the purpose of government is to allow a few to become wealthy.

 

[PratchettFan]

EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT I NEVER MENTIONED GOD..... I was talking about the reasoning behind having the inalienable right attributed to a higher power or authority and not to man or the creations of man.... and the reason is EXACTLY what I said it was... you just can't take your little atheist head around the 'God' argument....

And it is not 'how it is kept' as in what government or society does... it is how we are in dealing with ourselves... you state that government can take away my right to, let's say the pursuit of happiness... I say that they can try, but because my right to life or the pursuit of happiness comes from something other than the creation of man, I can fight and even die for it because it still exists even if government would say it does not.... that is why stating it like it is stated in the founding documents is so goddamn important... it does not make the government the end all be all, the grand exalted poobah, or that which is the holder of the proverbial excaliber... it shows that the making of man (the government) can only go so far and that it can be taken down before that right can

You keep talking about the government and I keep talking about society. The government is only one aspect of society. When a lynch mob hangs a man, that is not the government - but the man is still dead. That is the work of your neighbors.

You say it is important to put this in the hands of a higher power to make it more powerful than the government. I argue that doing so simply transfers the power from one oppressor to another. These are our rights. We fought for them, we died for them. They belong to us. Not because some higher power gave them to us but because we took them. And we are not going to give them back. They are ours because we say they are ours and we require no greater authority than ourselves. Our leaders govern under our sufferance and our sufferance alone. The power they yield is not the power of some higher authority, it is ours and ours alone.

That's how you keep your rights.

There has to be and is an authority bigger than the mob.. than the actions of man...

The power a man can yield can destroy another man... but the seed of the inalienable rights was planted before these creations of man... and the fruit will be here long after what we have created is gone... which is why it is more than man, more than groups of man, and more than the power wielded by the choices and corruption of man

And whether you or I or someone else says they come from God, or from something that was created in the urge to live, or from some alien implant, or from a power that we have no concept of yet... that right exists beyond society, beyond the actions of evil people, beyond government, beyond all of that...

History demonstrates otherwise.

 

[DiamondDave]

You keep talking about the government and I keep talking about society. The government is only one aspect of society. When a lynch mob hangs a man, that is not the government - but the man is still dead. That is the work of your neighbors.

You say it is important to put this in the hands of a higher power to make it more powerful than the government. I argue that doing so simply transfers the power from one oppressor to another. These are our rights. We fought for them, we died for them. They belong to us. Not because some higher power gave them to us but because we took them. And we are not going to give them back. They are ours because we say they are ours and we require no greater authority than ourselves. Our leaders govern under our sufferance and our sufferance alone. The power they yield is not the power of some higher authority, it is ours and ours alone.

That's how you keep your rights.

There has to be and is an authority bigger than the mob.. than the actions of man...

The power a man can yield can destroy another man... but the seed of the inalienable rights was planted before these creations of man... and the fruit will be here long after what we have created is gone... which is why it is more than man, more than groups of man, and more than the power wielded by the choices and corruption of man

And whether you or I or someone else says they come from God, or from something that was created in the urge to live, or from some alien implant, or from a power that we have no concept of yet... that right exists beyond society, beyond the actions of evil people, beyond government, beyond all of that...

History demonstrates otherwise.

Yet the fruit is here.. when history is gone... whether tyrants won or lost... whether lives were lost or saved... whether government oppressed more or less... whether it was a struggle or an easy road...

All your history shows is that we still have and still yearn for those rights, those caveats, that were here long before what we created and will be here after these creations and other future creations turn to dust and distant memories

There is something bigger than the creations of man... whether I know what it is, you know what it is, Joe Blow knows what it is, a lot of people have a handle on only a small part of what it is, or nobody knows yet what it is... whether you think it/he/she/whatever intervenes or does not intervene... whether you think it is conscious or just a force... there is something and there are things beyond what we create, what we know, and probably even what we believe and imagine.... and to attribute our rights to something beyond us, something more than us, is to show that they can never really be taken away until the last human who yearns to live and be free, is long gone

 

[flacaltenn]

Sorry. You didn't have to sign. It's imprinted in your genes. Tough luck.

Please show any evidence of social compact in our genes or DNA... and please show this in any other animal as well, or where it stemmed from in DNA evolution or mutation

Take a look at any herd or pack animal. When threatened, the herd will form a circle with the males to the outside and the females and calves in the center. This isn't planned, it is in the genes.

We've been thinking for some time that left -oriented minions are part of a herd. But the sense of self-preservation seems to have been bred right out of their population. They now depend on a remote central authority to do the herd navigation and defense.

All human beings are social animals. We work together in cooperation. Otherwise, we die. We do not hatch from an egg on our own, like an alligator. We require years of rearing. Gravid females require assistance and protection. We learn through being taught by the clan, knowledge being passed down. A human child on its own almost certainly dies.

A human child educated in the HOME however, does quite well without all the extraneous "knowledge" that public consensus has deemed vital for survival

In every human society above the level of small clan you will find two organizations. Government and religion. No exceptions to this. They vary in nature, but they are always there. They are survival mechanisms to allow human beings to operate in complex social structures. Without that structure, the individual human is helpless. But that structure requires rules or we tend to start killing each other. Thus government and religion.

Oh no.. What a choice.. My moral compass is tuned to either Government or Religion. Whichever one should I choose???

So you are part of the social compact whether you wish it or not. You have no choice in the matter because otherwise you die. Without the society, you never learn how not to die. You are not born with the capacity to survive outside of the society. It is in your genes.

And there it is.. The confirmation of the sheeple nature of the progressive movement. Nothing written down but the fact that you must survive as part of the collective. Even if the collective is a place like North Korea. No consideration of dissent, no consideration of disobedience. Just swallowing the surrounding culture as your penalty for living..

THis is precious response. it's just rich in intelligience on how atheist combatants really think about the origin of their Liberties.

 

[Plasmaball]

1) We do serve our kids... taking care of their every need (not every want)... and it is the responsibility of a parent
2) Notice that I used the words PURPOSELY HAD SEX, idiot
3) If you are a parent, being that liberal and that stupid, there is nothing I can really say to demonstrate my despair... just, facepalm
4) The result IS a concern as the result is a human.. just like when someone tries to murder any other human

1) I will never "serve" my kids.
2) the rapist is purposely having sex....
3) i am a parent, and being liberal or conservative has little to do with whatever point you are talking about.
4) its not murder, and its not a human being, and its none of your business. Nanny state losers like you are whats wrong with this nation. Your willingness to expand government to control people is anti-freedom.

1) Then I feel sorry for you
2) The victim is not
3) Being liberal and teaching liberal ideals to children is no different than teaching them it is ok to steal or be a burden and letting others steal for you
4) It is a human being, the DNA shows that... idiot
5) And YOU of all people calling someone a 'nanny stater'.. THAT is hilarious... what next, complaining that the government expands to 'control' people when they protect against, punish, and prosecute others who murder?? Protecting innocent human life is protecting innocent human life

1) No i will enjoy my kids and realize they can't do everything yet. Being a parent is not equal to jail time.
2) true
3) Being conservative and teaching them the ideals is no better than being a meth addict.
4) Nope
5) Me of all people? Here let me school you in how i am not a nanny stater.
You should be able to drink what you want, smoke what you want, Not wear a helmet, not wear a seatbelt, do what you want to your own body. You shouldnt be mandated to buy health insurance, nor mandated to do anything against your will. I dont believe in vaginal Probes or that you shouldnt be able to marry who you want.

No unlike you, i walk the walk. Your life is none of my business nor do i care about you. My children will learn to respect others, have manners, and be polite when needed. They will learn what it is like to earn something.

Look you want to be a fucking retard and blame the ills of the world on Liberals go ahead. Thats your choice to be ignorant. I on the other hand know better and know that liberals are not all evil and they can do some good in the world. Just like conservatives. Thats the difference between I and you a partisan fucktard.

 

[Plasmaball]

1) I will never "serve" my kids.
2) the rapist is purposely having sex....
3) i am a parent, and being liberal or conservative has little to do with whatever point you are talking about.
4) its not murder, and its not a human being, and its none of your business. Nanny state losers like you are whats wrong with this nation. Your willingness to expand government to control people is anti-freedom.

Im sorry to hear that your children will starve to death.

why would they starve to death? i work and provide for them, that doesn't mean i serve them and their whims.

Maybe you are too weak and are controlled by your kids, but i am not.

Of course if things got to bad with you, then you would most likely get your nightmare and the government would come after you.

 

[Plasmaball]

Sperm does not have a unique DNA. It is just cells from the man's body. The fetus has DNA unique unto itself. It is a seperate human being.

Uh no. The male carries half the dna and the female carries the other half...

Basic info people....basic info...

Once it is mixed, it is unique. That is basic biology. It is a seperate human being. That is a hard fact. I don't deny reality simply because it is inconvenient.

The male sperm carries i believe 23 chromosomes, where the female carries the other half. Until those two meet up you only have half a product.

I see what you are saying and i think you are wrong in saying it doesnt have unique DNA, but it would be cherry picking.

 

[flacaltenn]

Every child should have a warm bed, a solid roof and three hot meals a day. Every child should have an education as far as they can go. Every child should have adequate medical care. Every human being should have shelter and food. There are all sorts of shoulds. Any of those you could say are inalienable rights. But none of them exist unless human beings provide them. You have no rights unless the society in which you live acknowledges them. You can say you should as much as you like, but it matters not at all.

Shoulds are not rights

And the protection of an inalienable right is so that it is protected from government.. and by stating that this comes from a being or higher power beyond what man is, takes it away from the man made government which is by human nature fallible... your right to live the way you choose, by your actions, and without being murdered does not come from government.. we were indeed created to live and act on our own.. and that creation did not come from government

No, it did not come from government. Government comes from man. Laws come from man. Rights come from man. "Inalienable rights" is a phrase which has meaning only so long as man says it has meaning. You can toss in God if that makes you feel better, but that changes nothing.

See -- now there's your conceptual problem. The enlightened Founders recognized this, look at the results and wanted to do it differently.. The pessimistic Might makes Right scenario you paint is WAAAAAY to risky as to the outcome.. The Founders weren't gonna copy that paradigm after putting lives on the line in a Revolution against the reigning SuperPower..

So they started from the premise that it's GOVERNMENT powers should be enumerated, not human rights. And the reservation of ALL Liberties were entrusted to the Creator and should be self-evident. If that tarnishes your brass bunkie -- tough shit. It completely and utterly provides a guarantee that the North Koreans, the Zimababweans, and many in the Arab world can only WISH they had..

Your rights are NOT specified in the Constitution..

NOT PROVIDED BY MAN as you repeatedly claim.

You better HOPE the intent of that was perfectly clear..

 

[DiamondDave]

1) I will never "serve" my kids.
2) the rapist is purposely having sex....
3) i am a parent, and being liberal or conservative has little to do with whatever point you are talking about.
4) its not murder, and its not a human being, and its none of your business. Nanny state losers like you are whats wrong with this nation. Your willingness to expand government to control people is anti-freedom.

1) Then I feel sorry for you
2) The victim is not
3) Being liberal and teaching liberal ideals to children is no different than teaching them it is ok to steal or be a burden and letting others steal for you
4) It is a human being, the DNA shows that... idiot
5) And YOU of all people calling someone a 'nanny stater'.. THAT is hilarious... what next, complaining that the government expands to 'control' people when they protect against, punish, and prosecute others who murder?? Protecting innocent human life is protecting innocent human life

1) No i will enjoy my kids and realize they can't do everything yet. Being a parent is not equal to jail time.
2) true
3) Being conservative and teaching them the ideals is no better than being a meth addict.
4) Nope
5) Me of all people? Here let me school you in how i am not a nanny stater.
You should be able to drink what you want, smoke what you want, Not wear a helmet, not wear a seatbelt, do what you want to your own body. You shouldnt be mandated to buy health insurance, nor mandated to do anything against your will. I dont believe in vaginal Probes or that you shouldnt be able to marry who you want.

No unlike you, i walk the walk. Your life is none of my business nor do i care about you. My children will learn to respect others, have manners, and be polite when needed. They will learn what it is like to earn something.

Look you want to be a fucking retard and blame the ills of the world on Liberals go ahead. Thats your choice to be ignorant. I on the other hand know better and know that liberals are not all evil and they can do some good in the world. Just like conservatives. Thats the difference between I and you a partisan fucktard.

1) Never said it was jail time.. serving someone is not imprisoning someone
3) Yeah.. because all of those independent hard working meth addicts out there ... nice try at a comeback, but a total fail... you teach dependence, you teach redistribution, you teach stealing from Peter to give to Paul, you teach wrong
4) It is indeed... it is a developing human being with its own unique DNA signature, whether you like it or not
5) You repeatedly support nanny state entitlements, unequal treatment, redistribution, and every other nanny state scheme in the book... then you try and associate protecting rights and freedom and life to being a nanny stater as a distraction technique (a failed one though) and THAT makes you laughable....

And I am hardly partisan and point out the issues wrong with the party I happen to be registered to, if only to be able to vote in the primary... I show my support for any adult to be with and start a family with any other adult they choose, and strive to keep government out of it except for true governmental issues... I show my differing views from the republicans on social issues... I show where I sit very libertarian until it comes to punishment for convicted crimes and things of that sort... you lockstep and follow your progressive extremist masters, and follow every spouted mantra to the tee... but it is funny to see you try and paint others as partisan after you spilled all the partisan paint all over yourself

 

[PratchettFan]

Uh no. The male carries half the dna and the female carries the other half...

Basic info people....basic info...

Once it is mixed, it is unique. That is basic biology. It is a seperate human being. That is a hard fact. I don't deny reality simply because it is inconvenient.

The male sperm carries i believe 23 chromosomes, where the female carries the other half. Until those two meet up you only have half a product.

I see what you are saying and i think you are wrong in saying it doesnt have unique DNA, but it would be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing. So let me try to explain my point and you tell me if I am off base.

A sperm is a cell from the male. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the male body. It is not unique. The egg is a cell from the female. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the female. It is not unique. When the egg is fertilized by the sperm, it creates a zygote. This has an entirely unique DNA, different than either the male or female. It is a completely new human being.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Once it is mixed, it is unique. That is basic biology. It is a seperate human being. That is a hard fact. I don't deny reality simply because it is inconvenient.

The male sperm carries i believe 23 chromosomes, where the female carries the other half. Until those two meet up you only have half a product.

I see what you are saying and i think you are wrong in saying it doesnt have unique DNA, but it would be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing. So let me try to explain my point and you tell me if I am off base.

A sperm is a cell from the male. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the male body. It is not unique. The egg is a cell from the female. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the female. It is not unique. When the egg is fertilized by the sperm, it creates a zygote. This has an entirely unique DNA, different than either the male or female. It is a completely new human being.

That is 100% correct and deserved highlighting...

 

[PratchettFan]

There has to be and is an authority bigger than the mob.. than the actions of man...

The power a man can yield can destroy another man... but the seed of the inalienable rights was planted before these creations of man... and the fruit will be here long after what we have created is gone... which is why it is more than man, more than groups of man, and more than the power wielded by the choices and corruption of man

And whether you or I or someone else says they come from God, or from something that was created in the urge to live, or from some alien implant, or from a power that we have no concept of yet... that right exists beyond society, beyond the actions of evil people, beyond government, beyond all of that...

History demonstrates otherwise.

Yet the fruit is here.. when history is gone... whether tyrants won or lost... whether lives were lost or saved... whether government oppressed more or less... whether it was a struggle or an easy road...

All your history shows is that we still have and still yearn for those rights, those caveats, that were here long before what we created and will be here after these creations and other future creations turn to dust and distant memories

There is something bigger than the creations of man... whether I know what it is, you know what it is, Joe Blow knows what it is, a lot of people have a handle on only a small part of what it is, or nobody knows yet what it is... whether you think it/he/she/whatever intervenes or does not intervene... whether you think it is conscious or just a force... there is something and there are things beyond what we create, what we know, and probably even what we believe and imagine.... and to attribute our rights to something beyond us, something more than us, is to show that they can never really be taken away until the last human who yearns to live and be free, is long gone

That is a nice sentiment. However, it still makes no difference at all. What history shows us is that unless a people is willing to acquire their rights through their own determination, will and blood, they will have none. You may say the desire for these rights is inspired, but the rights themselves are always taken - never given. It is that same determination, will and blood which maintains those rights. You may believe this is an inspiration arising from some higher power, but it is still the individual and the group willing to stand up for themselves which attains the goal.

I do not believe any higher power needs to inspire us. I believe we inspire ourselves. You may believe otherwise, as is your right. Either way, the end product and how it is acheived is the same.

 

[SniperFire]

History demonstrates otherwise.

Yet the fruit is here.. when history is gone... whether tyrants won or lost... whether lives were lost or saved... whether government oppressed more or less... whether it was a struggle or an easy road...

All your history shows is that we still have and still yearn for those rights, those caveats, that were here long before what we created and will be here after these creations and other future creations turn to dust and distant memories

There is something bigger than the creations of man... whether I know what it is, you know what it is, Joe Blow knows what it is, a lot of people have a handle on only a small part of what it is, or nobody knows yet what it is... whether you think it/he/she/whatever intervenes or does not intervene... whether you think it is conscious or just a force... there is something and there are things beyond what we create, what we know, and probably even what we believe and imagine.... and to attribute our rights to something beyond us, something more than us, is to show that they can never really be taken away until the last human who yearns to live and be free, is long gone

That is a nice sentiment. However, it still makes no difference at all. What history shows us is that unless a people is willing to acquire their rights through their own determination, will and blood, they will have none. You may say the desire for these rights is inspired, but the rights themselves are always taken - never given. It is that same determination, will and blood which maintains those rights. You may believe this is an inspiration arising from some higher power, but it is still the individual and the group willing to stand up for themselves which attains the goal.

I do not believe any higher power needs to inspire us. I believe we inspire ourselves. You may believe otherwise, as is your right. Either way, the end product and how it is acheived is the same.

What you don't get is that America is founded on the understanding that inalienable rights exist - independent on ' a people' acquiring them.

 

[bodecea]

The male sperm carries i believe 23 chromosomes, where the female carries the other half. Until those two meet up you only have half a product.

I see what you are saying and i think you are wrong in saying it doesnt have unique DNA, but it would be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing. So let me try to explain my point and you tell me if I am off base.

A sperm is a cell from the male. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the male body. It is not unique. The egg is a cell from the female. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the female. It is not unique. When the egg is fertilized by the sperm, it creates a zygote. This has an entirely unique DNA, different than either the male or female. It is a completely new human being.

That is 100% correct and deserved highlighting...

Nope...a sperm has HALF the DNA of the male....the egg has HALF the DNA of the female.

 

[onecut39]

Shoulds are not rights

And the protection of an inalienable right is so that it is protected from government.. and by stating that this comes from a being or higher power beyond what man is, takes it away from the man made government which is by human nature fallible... your right to live the way you choose, by your actions, and without being murdered does not come from government.. we were indeed created to live and act on our own.. and that creation did not come from government

No, it did not come from government. Government comes from man. Laws come from man. Rights come from man. "Inalienable rights" is a phrase which has meaning only so long as man says it has meaning. You can toss in God if that makes you feel better, but that changes nothing.

See -- now there's your conceptual problem. The enlightened Founders recognized this, look at the results and wanted to do it differently.. The pessimistic Might makes Right scenario you paint is WAAAAAY to risky as to the outcome.. The Founders weren't gonna copy that paradigm after putting lives on the line in a Revolution against the reigning SuperPower..

So they started from the premise that it's GOVERNMENT powers should be enumerated, not human rights. And the reservation of ALL Liberties were entrusted to the Creator and should be self-evident. If that tarnishes your brass bunkie -- tough shit. It completely and utterly provides a guarantee that the North Koreans, the Zimababweans, and many in the Arab world can only WISH they had..

Your rights are NOT specified in the Constitution..

NOT PROVIDED BY MAN as you repeatedly claim.

You better HOPE the intent of that was perfectly clear..

Duh? Rights not specified in the constitution? Why are those first ten amendments called the "Bill of Rights"? ( we won't mention rights spelled out in the rest of the amendments)

There are times when the effort to be partisan gets downright ridiculous.

 

[DiamondDave]

Once it is mixed, it is unique. That is basic biology. It is a seperate human being. That is a hard fact. I don't deny reality simply because it is inconvenient.

The male sperm carries i believe 23 chromosomes, where the female carries the other half. Until those two meet up you only have half a product.

I see what you are saying and i think you are wrong in saying it doesnt have unique DNA, but it would be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing. So let me try to explain my point and you tell me if I am off base.

A sperm is a cell from the male. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the male body. It is not unique. The egg is a cell from the female. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the female. It is not unique. When the egg is fertilized by the sperm, it creates a zygote. This has an entirely unique DNA, different than either the male or female. It is a completely new human being.

All except the last sentence is wrong

See gametes

 

[SniperFire]

No, it did not come from government. Government comes from man. Laws come from man. Rights come from man. "Inalienable rights" is a phrase which has meaning only so long as man says it has meaning. You can toss in God if that makes you feel better, but that changes nothing.

See -- now there's your conceptual problem. The enlightened Founders recognized this, look at the results and wanted to do it differently.. The pessimistic Might makes Right scenario you paint is WAAAAAY to risky as to the outcome.. The Founders weren't gonna copy that paradigm after putting lives on the line in a Revolution against the reigning SuperPower..

So they started from the premise that it's GOVERNMENT powers should be enumerated, not human rights. And the reservation of ALL Liberties were entrusted to the Creator and should be self-evident. If that tarnishes your brass bunkie -- tough shit. It completely and utterly provides a guarantee that the North Koreans, the Zimababweans, and many in the Arab world can only WISH they had..

Your rights are NOT specified in the Constitution..

NOT PROVIDED BY MAN as you repeatedly claim.

You better HOPE the intent of that was perfectly clear..

Duh? Rights not specified in the constitution? Why are those first ten amendments called the "Bill of Rights"? ( we won't mention rights spelled out in the rest of the amendments)

There are times when the effort to be partisan gets downright ridiculous.

Inalienable rights exist independent of any delineation of them in the Constitution.

The proof of this is that many of the framers were reluctant to include the Bill of Rights because they knew we would leave some rights out, which of course they did as future amendments went on to rectify.

If it is possible for inalienable rights to have been left off a list, this is proof they exist independent of such lists.

And isn't it sad that inalienable rights is viewed by some as a 'partisan' matter?

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm not really sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing. So let me try to explain my point and you tell me if I am off base.

A sperm is a cell from the male. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the male body. It is not unique. The egg is a cell from the female. It has exactly the same DNA as any other cell in the female. It is not unique. When the egg is fertilized by the sperm, it creates a zygote. This has an entirely unique DNA, different than either the male or female. It is a completely new human being.

That is 100% correct and deserved highlighting...

Nope...a sperm has HALF the DNA of the male....the egg has HALF the DNA of the female.

I know we explained this before

 

[Plasmaball]

1) Then I feel sorry for you
2) The victim is not
3) Being liberal and teaching liberal ideals to children is no different than teaching them it is ok to steal or be a burden and letting others steal for you
4) It is a human being, the DNA shows that... idiot
5) And YOU of all people calling someone a 'nanny stater'.. THAT is hilarious... what next, complaining that the government expands to 'control' people when they protect against, punish, and prosecute others who murder?? Protecting innocent human life is protecting innocent human life

1) No i will enjoy my kids and realize they can't do everything yet. Being a parent is not equal to jail time.
2) true
3) Being conservative and teaching them the ideals is no better than being a meth addict.
4) Nope
5) Me of all people? Here let me school you in how i am not a nanny stater.
You should be able to drink what you want, smoke what you want, Not wear a helmet, not wear a seatbelt, do what you want to your own body. You shouldnt be mandated to buy health insurance, nor mandated to do anything against your will. I dont believe in vaginal Probes or that you shouldnt be able to marry who you want.

No unlike you, i walk the walk. Your life is none of my business nor do i care about you. My children will learn to respect others, have manners, and be polite when needed. They will learn what it is like to earn something.

Look you want to be a fucking retard and blame the ills of the world on Liberals go ahead. Thats your choice to be ignorant. I on the other hand know better and know that liberals are not all evil and they can do some good in the world. Just like conservatives. Thats the difference between I and you a partisan fucktard.

1) Never said it was jail time.. serving someone is not imprisoning someone
3) Yeah.. because all of those independent hard working meth addicts out there ... nice try at a comeback, but a total fail... you teach dependence, you teach redistribution, you teach stealing from Peter to give to Paul, you teach wrong
4) It is indeed... it is a developing human being with its own unique DNA signature, whether you like it or not
5) You repeatedly support nanny state entitlements, unequal treatment, redistribution, and every other nanny state scheme in the book... then you try and associate protecting rights and freedom and life to being a nanny stater as a distraction technique (a failed one though) and THAT makes you laughable....

And I am hardly partisan and point out the issues wrong with the party I happen to be registered to, if only to be able to vote in the primary... I show my support for any adult to be with and start a family with any other adult they choose, and strive to keep government out of it except for true governmental issues... I show my differing views from the republicans on social issues... I show where I sit very libertarian until it comes to punishment for convicted crimes and things of that sort... you lockstep and follow your progressive extremist masters, and follow every spouted mantra to the tee... but it is funny to see you try and paint others as partisan after you spilled all the partisan paint all over yourself

1) i never said you said it was. I dont serve my kids, never will. They are not kings
3) lol....Meth addicts are greedy little fucks who will do anything to get the next high. You would do anything to make a buck. It was perfectly fine that i stated that. You said something really stupid, so i answered with something equally as stupid. I am just playing down to your level. You know nothing about me, but you imply i am a liberal. I know nothing about you, so i will imply you like to fuck cows.
4)Nope it has the potential to be a human being, till it comes out of the womb it is a parasite.
5) LOL i point out how i am not a nanny stater and you go ahead and claim i am one anyways. Man you are a fucking joke and apparently have a huge ego ta boot. You are that full of yourself that you know me better than i do.
You repeatedly support nanny state entitlements, unequal treatment, redistribution
Go ahead, point out where i do this. This should be awesome.

lol nah you don't, but its amusing how you paint me in such a way and then go ahead and do what you claim i am doing.

good job cowfucker.

 

[PratchettFan]

Yet the fruit is here.. when history is gone... whether tyrants won or lost... whether lives were lost or saved... whether government oppressed more or less... whether it was a struggle or an easy road...

All your history shows is that we still have and still yearn for those rights, those caveats, that were here long before what we created and will be here after these creations and other future creations turn to dust and distant memories

There is something bigger than the creations of man... whether I know what it is, you know what it is, Joe Blow knows what it is, a lot of people have a handle on only a small part of what it is, or nobody knows yet what it is... whether you think it/he/she/whatever intervenes or does not intervene... whether you think it is conscious or just a force... there is something and there are things beyond what we create, what we know, and probably even what we believe and imagine.... and to attribute our rights to something beyond us, something more than us, is to show that they can never really be taken away until the last human who yearns to live and be free, is long gone

That is a nice sentiment. However, it still makes no difference at all. What history shows us is that unless a people is willing to acquire their rights through their own determination, will and blood, they will have none. You may say the desire for these rights is inspired, but the rights themselves are always taken - never given. It is that same determination, will and blood which maintains those rights. You may believe this is an inspiration arising from some higher power, but it is still the individual and the group willing to stand up for themselves which attains the goal.

I do not believe any higher power needs to inspire us. I believe we inspire ourselves. You may believe otherwise, as is your right. Either way, the end product and how it is acheived is the same.

What you don't get is that America is founded on the understanding that inalienable rights exist - independent on ' a people' acquiring them.

No, it wasn't. This is the foundation of our republic:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Believe what you wish, that is your right. Worship as you please, that is your right. But regardless, the foundation upon which this republic is built is that ultimate authority and responsibility rests with the people and nowhere else.