God given rights?

[Plasmaball]

And what exactly is irrational about believing God acts in the affairs of man?

Nothing, its just not something I would put down as a fact. You have zero proof outside of faith. Which faith is worth a fart in a bucket.

You can pretend all day long a god intervened, that doesn't make it so.

Dont need to pretend. We have the historical record before us. Just because you ignore what you dont like to hear doesn't mean it's not there.

i suggest you look into the battles of the Revolution. Do you know how many times the Continental Army survived because an unexpected natural event occured at just the right time?

Look at the Battle of Princeton. The British move to attack Trenton and get stuck in the mud the entire time they are advancing slowing up their movements. Meanwhile Washington gets the idea to take some backroads and attack Princeton and all the mud just miraculously freezes allowing them to swiftly get there and attack while the British were stuck in the mud.

Do you know how many times in battle nature assisted the Continental army? God works through nature.

Do you have any idea how many times a dense thick fog arrived just to help cover the Continental army at extremely covenient times in both the battles of Boston and Long Island?

Do you know how many times having just the right wind direction helped them in Boston, Long Island, Yorktown, and Trenton?

There is no way the colonists should have one fighting the greatest army of the world at the time. They should have been crushed within months and almost were crushed except Nature and Nature's God assisted them.

You can deny God's hand all you want. His fingerprints are all over these battles. They are what they are.

Washington and the Founders recognized His hand. They realized they couldn't do what they were trying to do without His assistance and actively sought it at every opportunity.

Oooook freezing mud.....was gods work....how heavy was that object that hit you in the head?

No the colonists had knowledge of the land, they had an enemy who resources took months to get to. Who head general was in england.you are trying to tae the complexities of war and cheapening. It by saying a god did it.

Everyone likes to think god had a hand in winning. We see it all the time in sports. Or you saying god loves the heat more than the celtics? Or the giants had gods favor of the patriots?

Or you know the better team got lucky and won....

Seriously you have the mind of a retarded child.

 

[onecut39]

So true !
George Washington was one of the biggest of believers from the experiences he encountered during his battles. How many times did he say he was saved from bullets and that he would not have survived without divine intervention?
Every single one of them believed we won the war with God's help.

So where was God on Nine-Eleven?

helping the First responders rescuing people. Im sure if you google 9/11 miracles you will find countless accounts of God helping people.

That's god alright! Always a day late and a dollar short.

 

[onecut39]

Senator Paul Ryan. Senator, GOP leader, writer of budgets.

In this little interview he says rights come from god and are not given by governments. That may be true but God is incredibly bad at keeping those rights for his people and never once has he intervened, personally, to lend a hand. It has always been our job to raise the armies, take the casualties and shoulder the burden while God sits idly by without even a muted cheer.

Even the founders knew better. The declaration states that, "to secure these rights governments are instituted among men". I guess there is no need for those first ten amendments to the constitution either. With god on our side who the hell needs a Bill of Rights?

Being an atheist god and I have a tenuous relationship and if Ryan does not mind I prefer a rule of law to a theocracy.

Ryan is here

Paul Ryan: Repeal health law because rights come from God | The Raw Story

The declaration is here. (Although our patriotic and learned rightwingnuts should have no need of verification. This holy text should be burned into their memory if not their soul)

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

You just don't get it. Ryan is not saying you have to believe in God, he is saying, as our Founders did. That your rights do not come from Man, and no man can ever take them. Period.

Ours is the only constitution I know of that does not list a Bunch of rights the government grants you, which therefore could be taken away. It lists rights given to you by a higher power, call it what you want, God or just common Human Decency. That can not be taken from you.

The Bu sh administration took away a few.

 

[Dr Grump]

It lists rights given to you by a higher power, call it what you want, God or just common Human Decency. That can not be taken from you.

Name them....

 

[JohnA]

If Americans believe in an inalienable right to life, how can we tolerate a system that denies people lifesaving medications and treatments?

No body is * DENIED * life saving medical help in the country called USA where have you been living ?
We dont just let people *die * you need to get around a bit more

 

[onecut39]

Senator Paul Ryan. Senator, GOP leader, writer of budgets.

In this little interview he says rights come from god and are not given by governments. That may be true but God is incredibly bad at keeping those rights for his people and never once has he intervened, personally, to lend a hand. It has always been our job to raise the armies, take the casualties and shoulder the burden while God sits idly by without even a muted cheer.

Even the founders knew better. The declaration states that, "to secure these rights governments are instituted among men". I guess there is no need for those first ten amendments to the constitution either. With god on our side who the hell needs a Bill of Rights?

Being an atheist god and I have a tenuous relationship and if Ryan does not mind I prefer a rule of law to a theocracy.

Ryan is here

Paul Ryan: Repeal health law because rights come from God | The Raw Story

The declaration is here. (Although our patriotic and learned rightwingnuts should have no need of verification. This holy text should be burned into their memory if not their soul)

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

The construct that the rights of men are derived from God, not the government, is the antithesis of theocracy. The rule of law wherein the powers of the government are emphatically delineated and limited follows from that. The only theocracies, as it were, are those societies that do not heed the only authentic Source and Guarantor of human rights. Such are inevitably subject to statist governments.

Further, the Founders most certainly would not agree with you. They would laugh at your sophomoric drivel. The Lockean philosophy of government, the theory that guided them, begins with (1) the derivation of humans rights—Divinity—and proceeds to (2) the general consent of the governed. You confound two distinct things. You are deluded and ignorant about the philosophical origins and logical prerequisites of an enduring democratic rule of law.

I know a number of atheists who are not so stupid. While they do not believe that God exists, they are wise enough to embrace the Lockean philosophy of government as though He did, recognizing, from historical experience and the self-evident fundamentals of realty, the collectivist and statist nature of the alternative.

But of course they are not silly leftists, but classical liberals like myself.

What drivel! I am not arguing against either religion or government. Government is necessary and what kind is paramount. It is the drivel that god gives us "inalienable rights" I find depressing.

I don't care how many. or few gods you believe in just keep your theology out of government. To imply that god is giving us our rights is as unprovable as it is ridiculous.

For what it is worth there is not one objective fact that supports the existence of god, any god.

 

[onecut39]

other atheists make me a believer in god, his wording kills me

Being an atheist god and I have a tenuous relationship and if Ryan does not mind I prefer a rule of law to a theocracy




heres my quesdtion to other atheists, if you dont believe in something, why do u get offended if people are doing something u dont beleive exists?

You can believe whatever you wish. Not your beliefs that offend me it is just your actions. Having a congressman tell me that my rights are in the hands of a god..........now that offends me.

I wrongly referred to Ryan as a senator. My bad. I apologize.

They are in the hands of God. But hey, if you dont want to believe Thomas Jefferson you dont have to. Just dont be surprised if a government takes them away. After all, rights granted by man can be taken by them.

Inalienable means they can't be taken away. Since all rights can be taken away that makes "inalienable right" an oxymoron.

Would you like to address that?

(Jefferson was a deist and had no use for organized religion, including Christianity. He looked upon the new testament as a moral source rather than a religious one)

 

[JohnA]

I have no doubt that there wer emany Brit's whose prayer was answered. But the simple fact is that a people who follow God can call upon Him to grant them liberty.

Gandhi tried to teach this to His people. They wouldnt be free until they turned to God and governed themselves.

When a people live their individual covenants with God, the powers of God are made manifest. Can any of you truly deny the miracles that occured to save the Continental armies?

The miracles in Boston, Long Island, Trenton, Princeton, Valley Forge, Philadelphia, Yorktown and countless other places won us our Independence.

This nation was establshed because It was God's will to do so. It furthered His purposes. That's why He made the covenant with the Founders. And our Nation can only be restored if we turn to Him, Envoke the covenant through our daily actions. If we turn away from the American Covenant we will be brought into bondage and destroyed by our own foolish actions.

And here I thought we could stop making up deities for things we couldn't explain in past times with the advent of chemistry, biology, physics, geology, meteorology, geography, oceanography, anthopology, archeology......

Dont need to make up anything. God exists and He intervened in the Revolution. Doesn't matter if you accept it or not. It happened. Nature just doesn't randomly support one group of people in battle over another.

so you are saying g-d intervened and takes sides so who side was he on in the vetnam war . .couldnt have been ours cus we lost .

 

[onecut39]

If Americans believe in an inalienable right to life, how can we tolerate a system that denies people lifesaving medications and treatments?

No body is * DENIED * life saving medical help in the country called USA where have you been living ?
We dont just let people *die * you need to get around a bit more

Grow up! Happens every day.

 

[PratchettFan]

other atheists make me a believer in god, his wording kills me

Being an atheist god and I have a tenuous relationship and if Ryan does not mind I prefer a rule of law to a theocracy




heres my quesdtion to other atheists, if you dont believe in something, why do u get offended if people are doing something u dont beleive exists?

You can believe whatever you wish. Not your beliefs that offend me it is just your actions. Having a congressman tell me that my rights are in the hands of a god..........now that offends me.

I wrongly referred to Ryan as a senator. My bad. I apologize.

They are in the hands of God. But hey, if you dont want to believe Thomas Jefferson you dont have to. Just dont be surprised if a government takes them away. After all, rights granted by man can be taken by them.

As has been proven over and over again in history, these so called right granted by God can also be taken away by man. So what exactly is the difference?

 

[JohnA]

I have no doubt that there wer emany Brit's whose prayer was answered. But the simple fact is that a people who follow God can call upon Him to grant them liberty.

Gandhi tried to teach this to His people. They wouldnt be free until they turned to God and governed themselves.

When a people live their individual covenants with God, the powers of God are made manifest. Can any of you truly deny the miracles that occured to save the Continental armies?

The miracles in Boston, Long Island, Trenton, Princeton, Valley Forge, Philadelphia, Yorktown and countless other places won us our Independence.

This nation was establshed because It was God's will to do so.nvoke the covenant through our daily actions. If we turn away from the American Covenant we will be brought into bondage and destroyed by our own foolish actions.

And here I thought we could stop making up deities for things we couldn't explain in past times with the advent of chemistry, biology, physics, geology, meteorology, geography, oceanography, anthopology, archeology......

Dont need to make up anything. God exists and He intervened in the Revolution. Doesn't matter if you accept it or not. It happened. Nature just doesn't randomly support one group of people in battle over another.

IT FURTHERED HIS PURPOSE was his purpose to allow rich privileged white guys to own slaves ?

 

[JohnA]

You can believe whatever you wish. Not your beliefs that offend me it is just your actions. Having a congressman tell me that my rights are in the hands of a god..........now that offends me.

I wrongly referred to Ryan as a senator. My bad. I apologize.

They are in the hands of God. But hey, if you dont want to believe Thomas Jefferson you dont have to. Just dont be surprised if a government takes them away. After all, rights granted by man can be taken by them.

As has been proven over and over again in history, these so called right granted by God can also be taken away by man. So what exactly is the difference?

no differance some men think they are god .. obama .

 

[JohnA]

When you're sitting in a concentration camp and experiencing the failings of the "laws of men" --- tell me who YOU are gonna appeal to for your rights....

At that point, you can appeal to God. Appeal and appeal and appeal. However, it takes very little perusal of history to find that does no good at all. God does not intervene.

he does nt intervene
because
(1 ) he is deaf
(2 ) he does,nt give a shit
(3 ) he does ,nt exist
i will go with #3

 

[PratchettFan]

Is it really against their will when they use their body in a way to become pregnant?

If it is against their will, then it is against their will. I believe the phrase is, "No means no." So I ask again, do you disagree with my statement?

I already told you that your logic is flawed. you cant jump off a cliff and then get upset when you hit the ground and experience alot of pain.

Actions have consquences. Start accepting that and you can truly make a difference in the world. As long as you excuse your behavior and the behavior of others, major sociall problems will exist.

Yes. Actions have consequences. When the government is given power over your personal sovereignty, that has consequences. If the government can say you can't have an abortion, then it can say you must have an abortion. It all derives from the same concept that your body belongs to the state and the state can tell you how you can use it.

At this point, it is used entirely for the purpose of controling women's rights. Specifically their determination if they wish to have a baby or not. It is an entirely one sided thing - right now.

You speak of responsibility. However, if you were to come up to me and shoot me down in cold blood and I will die if I don't get a blood transfusion - you being the only possible donor. Even though my right to life is on the line and you are entirely responsible, I could not force you to donate blood. I couldn't force you to provide toenail clippings. That would be seen as a violation of your rights. In fact, if you were to die while attempting to kill me and I needed one or your organs to survive, I would not have the right to your corpse, even if that meant I die myself. Not without the permission of your family. Even if you are the cause of my injury I have no right to your body in any way.

There is only one situation in which the state will force this on someone and that is a pregnant woman. In no other situation is that the case. In no other case is "responsiblity" a justification of such an intrusion. So I do not buy that argument.

 

[signelect]

You are not suppossed to understand you are suppossed to believe. There is an old saying
" I had rather live my life as if there were a God and die and find out there isn't than to live my life as if there were NO God and die and find our there is"

Believing is not hard, it just requires accpetance.

 

[JohnA]

This country was founded on the principle of God given rights. If there are no God given rights, then just dissolve the country right now, it has no more reason to exist than cotton candy.

wherein the bible are the *god given rights *as in he constitution mentioned
life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that the *right* to vote the *right* of free speech where are they mentioned ???? man gave us those rights
other (god believing )nations dont have them

 

[JohnA]

This country was founded on the principle of God given rights. If there are no God given rights, then just dissolve the country right now, it has no more reason to exist than cotton candy.

dissolve G-d and the country would be better off and still have same *rights *

 

[Buford]

If Americans believe in an inalienable right to life, how can we tolerate a system that denies people lifesaving medications and treatments?

Why were the pioneers denied FEMA when they had troubles crossing the west?

 

[JohnA]

You are not suppossed to understand you are suppossed to believe. There is an old saying
" I had rather live my life as if there were a God and die and find out there isn't than to live my life as if there were NO God and die and find our there is"

Believing is not hard, it just requires accpetance.

Pascal's Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[P@triot]

never once has HE intervened, personally, to lend a hand.

Wow, that is a staggering comment of arrogance, even by arrogant/ignorant liberal standards. History, if you took the time to learn it, has proven you dead wrong on that statement. Pick up a little book called "Being George Washington" which is full of footnotes providing documented evidence - much of which comes from George Washington's own documentation. There are only so many times you can call "coincidence" before you start to sound like a fool. Washington prayed constantly, and the things that transpired are jaw dropping. The fact that a bunch of farmers and pilgrims could defeat the most powerful military force in world history to that point is glaring evidence enough that God "personally intervened to lend a hand".

But hey, don't let a little thing like facts get in the way. Liberals never do...