God is love

[Quantum Windbag]

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

what people may "consider: themselves to be CHANGES NO TRUTH!!

Who decides who is a Christian? You? They read and revere the same scripture as you do. Why should I question their "Christianity"?

Unless you are God you can't tell me who is, and is not, a Christian.

Are you God?

 

[alang1216]

WOW!!! GUY!! YOU GOT PROBLEMS!! JUST KNOW no little man has ever won by trying to argue and fight against ALMIGHTY GOD. one question at a time if you want to debate on a message board!

Thanks for the heads up but I'm unafraid. If there is a God he made me what I am and I argue from knowledge, not from ignorance. Just what he'd want.

Feel free to pick any one of my points if you'd care to do me the favor of a reply.

That was funny.

Tell me something, if you are actually arguing from knowledge why do you refuse to accept the fact that not everyone who follows Jesus is a member of Westboro Baptist Church? Why do you constantly attack people for views you hold? If you think you can debate religion on the basis of facts then why are you ignoring the people who actually know more than you do? Is the truth that you are a small minded bigot who is incapalble of actual thought, and that you are used to arguing with other small minded bigots, and that you believe the fact that neither of you can actually prove anything somehow makes you smarter than they are?

I think I made it clear that I don't think WBC is typical. Why are you attacking me for my views? Especially since you don't know what kind of bigot I am or how much I know?

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[Quantum Windbag]

Thanks for the heads up but I'm unafraid. If there is a God he made me what I am and I argue from knowledge, not from ignorance. Just what he'd want.

Feel free to pick any one of my points if you'd care to do me the favor of a reply.

That was funny.

Tell me something, if you are actually arguing from knowledge why do you refuse to accept the fact that not everyone who follows Jesus is a member of Westboro Baptist Church? Why do you constantly attack people for views you hold? If you think you can debate religion on the basis of facts then why are you ignoring the people who actually know more than you do? Is the truth that you are a small minded bigot who is incapalble of actual thought, and that you are used to arguing with other small minded bigots, and that you believe the fact that neither of you can actually prove anything somehow makes you smarter than they are?

I think I made it clear that I don't think WBC is typical. Why are you attacking me for my views? Especially since you don't know what kind of bigot I am or how much I know?

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Because, even though you claim you don't think WBC is typical you insist that I have to include them as Christians simply because you refuse to accept any other terms.

But feel free to take the fake high ground here, it makes my point all the more succinct.

 

[alang1216]

cuz' there's these 37 people in Kansas that the atheists have appointed as spokespeople for all of Christianity.......

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

Seriously?

Does that mean I can point to the whacko fringe left terrorists and demand that the definition of Democrat include them? Or that I can point to ISIS and demand that Muslims accept them as part of their religion?

You are so fucking stupid it isn't even worth posting how stupid you are. You do not have the power to demand that I accept other people as part of my religion simply because they claim they believe in something that sounds the same to idiots like you.

Do you have the power to say who is a Christian? Christianity has always been diverse, can you define it? Any other groups should be excluded?

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[alang1216]

The God of Love created people with free will. Had He not, you would have complained that perfect people are only perfect because God was afraid to give us free will.

Free will with imperfect knowledge is a dangerous combination. Jesus never brought his message to the Aztecs or the Chinese. Why?

Was this the same God that instructed the Israelites to kill men, women, children, and animals?



Those Israelites were such bullies. How would a pagan have made into heaven is they were taught there were many gods?

But Jesus was God so this means he created our debt, then paid off the debt to himself, and forgave himself. Seems like circular bookkeeping.

And yes, you are expected to know who He is. He's the one who died for you. He left a message. Love one another.

Does God really expect people to find Jesus without someone telling them about him? Seems we have to go through man to find God, why did he not provide us a direct path?

Still criticizing people for not fitting into your box?

Trying to understand why people don't fit in my box.

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[Quantum Windbag]

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

Seriously?

Does that mean I can point to the whacko fringe left terrorists and demand that the definition of Democrat include them? Or that I can point to ISIS and demand that Muslims accept them as part of their religion?

You are so fucking stupid it isn't even worth posting how stupid you are. You do not have the power to demand that I accept other people as part of my religion simply because they claim they believe in something that sounds the same to idiots like you.

Do you have the power to say who is a Christian? Christianity has always been diverse, can you define it? Any other groups should be excluded?

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You are the one claiming that power by insisting that everyone that calls themselves a Christian has to fit into my belief system.. Nice try to attempt to blame me for your idiotic bigotry though, it might have worked if you were talking to someone who is an intellectual midget, like yourself. Unfortunately, for you, I am a smart ass, and don't fall into traps laid by idiots.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Free will with imperfect knowledge is a dangerous combination. Jesus never brought his message to the Aztecs or the Chinese. Why?

Was this the same God that instructed the Israelites to kill men, women, children, and animals?



Those Israelites were such bullies. How would a pagan have made into heaven is they were taught there were many gods?

But Jesus was God so this means he created our debt, then paid off the debt to himself, and forgave himself. Seems like circular bookkeeping.

Does God really expect people to find Jesus without someone telling them about him? Seems we have to go through man to find God, why did he not provide us a direct path?

Still criticizing people for not fitting into your box?

Trying to understand why people don't fit in my box.

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The first clue is that only idiots think people fit into boxes.

 

[Chuckt]

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

what people may "consider: themselves to be CHANGES NO TRUTH!!

Who decides who is a Christian? You? They read and revere the same scripture as you do. Why should I question their "Christianity"?

Because you know that some questioning is based on the reality of the Savior's words:

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Then your default of not questioning someone's Christianity because they have to be "in" is at fault because the opposite may be true.

Even Paul doesn't say that:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So basically you are believing something that neither Jesus nor Paul said by not questioning.

 

[Chuckt]

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

Seriously?

Does that mean I can point to the whacko fringe left terrorists and demand that the definition of Democrat include them? Or that I can point to ISIS and demand that Muslims accept them as part of their religion?

You are so fucking stupid it isn't even worth posting how stupid you are. You do not have the power to demand that I accept other people as part of my religion simply because they claim they believe in something that sounds the same to idiots like you.

Do you have the power to say who is a Christian? Christianity has always been diverse, can you define it? Any other groups should be excluded?

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On some things, Yes.

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

If I hear people deny Jesus, then there will always be a question.

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

It was always the Church's right to tell you your sins were remitted or retained according to John 20:23.

In fact, the Bible also calls some people a liar:

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

We don't have to believe you:

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[The Irish Ram]

He didn't preach to the Aztecs because all flights were cancelled that day.

Christ was a Jewish Rabbi. He came to the Jews. But saw faith in the Gentiles. His teaching covers all humans. China, Africa, America, Russia, all nations and the people in them have been given enough knowledge to achieve salvation.

Do you have even a semblance of understanding as to why God would command all living things in certain areas be destroyed?
Fallen angels produced nephilim offspring. Big, nasty offspring both human and animal. To the extent that at one point there were only 8 human left without corrupted blood.

Jesus is God, and had nothing to do with our debt other than covering it. He did not sin or force others to sin. Our actions are our actions. There is no circular bookkeeping.

Jesus took human form only once. You'd think he'd do it for all mankind, not just one small tribe.

So Jericho was populated by nephilim? That seems debatable.

Jesus as God was the one who determined there was a debt that needed paying. If not God then who?

Christ took human form once and for all, and has the scars to prove it.

He did do it for all mankind:

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

God told Satan that a woman's seed would crush his head. God didn't tell him which seed, or when, so Satan went after all the seeds. So, hundreds of years later the world was full of nephilim, a hybrid of fallen angels and daughter's of men.
The Greeks called nephilim demigods. They were grotesque hybrids of fallen angels and daughters of man.

God preserved the human race by putting Noah and his family ( who still had pure bloodlines) in an ark, and destroying the corruption that was left. But it grieved Him so much that He promised never to curse the earth again. (In fact, Arar means cursed. The mountain range that the ark touched land on is called Mt Ararat, which means curse reversed.)

So, Satan figured that he could send a second assault and God couldn't stop it because of His promise. Nephilim starting showing up again after the flood. The second assault was stopped by God chaining the fallen angels involved in the assaults in a place that is only referred to once in the New Testament, Tartarus. They will be judged at the White Throne Judgment.

David killed some of the leftovers threatening Israel. And even American Indians held up their hands to show strangers that they had the right amount of digits, as an extra one was a trait of nephilim.

 

[PostmodernProph]

cuz' there's these 37 people in Kansas that the atheists have appointed as spokespeople for all of Christianity.......

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

not at all....you may consider yourself rational, but we don't have to stretch the definition of rationality enough to include your arguments........

 

[PostmodernProph]

ok, but what does that have to do with what i wrote? Please clarify.

jesus came to his people israel with his truth and salvation,jesus then sends out his followers to ""all"" the world with the gosple(the good news).

If that was his goal he was an underachiever. It's probably only been in the last 100 years that his message made to every corner of the globe. Only took 2,000 years, you'd think a message so important would have a higher priority from God.

story told in seminary.....missionary travels to China in the 1800s.....tells people about Jesus.....many converted.....one comes to missionary and asks......"why did you wait so long before coming to tell us?".......

 

[PostmodernProph]

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

Seriously?

Does that mean I can point to the whacko fringe left terrorists and demand that the definition of Democrat include them? Or that I can point to ISIS and demand that Muslims accept them as part of their religion?

You are so fucking stupid it isn't even worth posting how stupid you are. You do not have the power to demand that I accept other people as part of my religion simply because they claim they believe in something that sounds the same to idiots like you.

Do you have the power to say who is a Christian? Christianity has always been diverse, can you define it? Any other groups should be excluded?

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the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda comes to mind.....Christian Identity movement......

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Alang,

I avoid commenting on groups or people I don't know.

Chuck

My bad, I thought you had been speaking for Christians.

Alang,

There are 2,000+ cults in the Watchman Cult Catalog. Where do I put Westboro Baptist Church? The answer is not everything needs to be answered. If you want to know the true from counterfeit, you don't study the counterfeit; you study the real stuff.

Jesus says many false prophets will appear and deceive many. Usually when I ask Christians or non Christians, they have no clue about who is a false Christian or who is a true Christian. If I ask people to name a false teacher, most people have no ability. Even fewer can tell me why someone is a false teacher.

What are some characteristics of true Christians?

They test all things:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test them all; hold on to what is good,

Another characteristic is that they follow Jesus' commandment to love one another:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

A characteristic is that they put away hate:

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Because it is characteristic of not knowing God to hate:

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

Treat others better than ourselves:

Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves,

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together to meet:

Hebrews 10:25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Be kind to one another:

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Treating others like you would treat Jesus:

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

And there are more but the point is if you don't read your Bible, you won't know the difference between those who are missing the mark (sin) or those who are Christians.

My wife broke her leg and the church is coming by with meals, helping clean the house, helping organize our kitchen, doing things for us because it is hard right now for me. Those are some of the things I want to do in the church; I want to be a hospital to those who are hurting so if someone needs me to mow their lawn, I want to do it. If someone needs me to rake their leaves because they are injured, I want to do it.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Westboro is just one example of false prophets, more famous ones include Jim Jones, and David Koresh.

I am not sure where the old saying "one bad apple, spoils the bunch" comes from. But, it applies well to what non-believers think of Christians. Many people who call themselves a Christian really have no idea what it is to walk the path that Jesus sat in front of them.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

ok, but what does that have to do with what i wrote? Please clarify.

jesus came to his people israel with his truth and salvation,jesus then sends out his followers to ""all"" the world with the gosple(the good news).

If that was his goal he was an underachiever. It's probably only been in the last 100 years that his message made to every corner of the globe. Only took 2,000 years, you'd think a message so important would have a higher priority from God.

What is 2000 years, when compared with eternity?

A man was walking with God. The man asked, God, how long is a million years to you? God answered, it's just a second.
They walked awhile longer, the man again asked, God, how much is a million dollars to you? God answered, it's just a penny.
After a while, the man asked, God, can I have a penny? God answered, you sure can, give me just a second.

 

[alang1216]

Seriously?

Does that mean I can point to the whacko fringe left terrorists and demand that the definition of Democrat include them? Or that I can point to ISIS and demand that Muslims accept them as part of their religion?

You are so fucking stupid it isn't even worth posting how stupid you are. You do not have the power to demand that I accept other people as part of my religion simply because they claim they believe in something that sounds the same to idiots like you.

Do you have the power to say who is a Christian? Christianity has always been diverse, can you define it? Any other groups should be excluded?

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You are the one claiming that power by insisting that everyone that calls themselves a Christian has to fit into my belief system.. Nice try to attempt to blame me for your idiotic bigotry though, it might have worked if you were talking to someone who is an intellectual midget, like yourself. Unfortunately, for you, I am a smart ass, and don't fall into traps laid by idiots.

I like your phrase

my belief system

like you have the authority to include or exclude groups from your Christianity. I don't know what a Christian is so I certainly don't claim any power over it. If you're not an intellectual midget like me please define Christianity and show me how to determine who is a Christian.

 

[alang1216]

what people may "consider: themselves to be CHANGES NO TRUTH!!

Who decides who is a Christian? You? They read and revere the same scripture as you do. Why should I question their "Christianity"?

Because you know that some questioning is based on the reality of the Savior's words:

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Then your default of not questioning someone's Christianity because they have to be "in" is at fault because the opposite may be true.

Even Paul doesn't say that:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So basically you are believing something that neither Jesus nor Paul said by not questioning.

Fair enough, but if everyone is "out" by default what criteria should I use to include them?

 

[alang1216]

cuz' there's these 37 people in Kansas that the atheists have appointed as spokespeople for all of Christianity.......

I know they are hardly representative of Christianity, I never meant to imply they are anything but a fringe (cult?) group. My point was that they consider themselves Christian so the definition of Christianity must include them.

not at all....you may consider yourself rational, but we don't have to stretch the definition of rationality enough to include your arguments........

If I asked the Westboro folk I wonder if they would include you amongst Christians.

 

[alang1216]

jesus came to his people israel with his truth and salvation,jesus then sends out his followers to ""all"" the world with the gosple(the good news).

If that was his goal he was an underachiever. It's probably only been in the last 100 years that his message made to every corner of the globe. Only took 2,000 years, you'd think a message so important would have a higher priority from God.

story told in seminary.....missionary travels to China in the 1800s.....tells people about Jesus.....many converted.....one comes to missionary and asks......"why did you wait so long before coming to tell us?".......

So what was the answer?

 

[alang1216]

jesus came to his people israel with his truth and salvation,jesus then sends out his followers to ""all"" the world with the gosple(the good news).

If that was his goal he was an underachiever. It's probably only been in the last 100 years that his message made to every corner of the globe. Only took 2,000 years, you'd think a message so important would have a higher priority from God.

What is 2000 years, when compared with eternity?

A man was walking with God. The man asked, God, how long is a million years to you? God answered, it's just a second.
They walked awhile longer, the man again asked, God, how much is a million dollars to you? God answered, it's just a penny.
After a while, the man asked, God, can I have a penny? God answered, you sure can, give me just a second.

The millions who lived and died in that time lost that eternity.